Millennial women are saying no thanks to parenthood

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mormons are overwhelmingly politically conservative but have the highest rate of mental illness in the country.

https://www.abc4.com/news/utah-has-the-highest-rate-of-mental-health-illness-in-the-u-s/amp/

No, that’s not true. LDS folks just access mental health resources better and more than others.

Please provide backup for this statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I got married my wife and I was making $55k each. My wife wanted kids right away.

We bought a small fixer upper house in a second tier neighborhood after 15 months of marriage and had our kid after 16 months of marriage. My wife decided to leave work after first one born and I was making $62k a year!!

With a kid and a mortgage and wife to support.

She said if you let me do this I will 100 percent support career, work late, travel, go to work events pretty much you do your career even if you work to 8 pm every night things will run here.

Shortly after baby born got raise and promotion to 86k

Then we had second and not long after raise promotion 120k

Then we had 3rd switched jobs raise promotion to $180k

Ten years after birth of first I was making $300k a year.

A man need a rock on his back to perform. Nothing better than babies and a SAH wife and a mortgage.

The baby brings the bread.

Okay, but this sounds miserable. This is how men have heart attacks when they're 55.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People always say they were “traveling” before kids as opposed to after. I always wonder what this means. We had ours on the early side (started mid twenties) but as our HHI rose, we were able to start traveling with them. We typically take 5 week long vacations a year. We 3 kids, it’s not cheap so we mostly look for short flights. We mostly do domestic locations (for skiing or hiking in the nationals parks), Caribbean for spring break, Europe or Canada during the summer, etc. This is similar to our neighbors and kids’ friends.

What kind of traveling were you doing before kids that was so different to what you’re doing now? Were you moving around from place to place like digital nomads?

When I was in my 20s we barely had any money or time off. It was a grind.

When you have kids, you are limited to traveling during times they are out of school, typically the summer which is more expensive and more crowded.

We traveled a lot mid September to October, or late April to May. We also traveled to places that kids wouldn't enjoy. Once we had kids, it was mostly destinations that we would not have necessarily picked had we been childless. Not to mention that we could only do things that were kid friendly.

We were making six figures by our late 20s, so we traveled a lot prekids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think about my childless cousins and SIL...what are they up to? Hiking...we do that with our kids. Eating at restaurants...gets old after awhile and very expensive. Travel...we are going to Tokyo in 2 weeks with kids. Drinking at breweries...it's Friday night, we can drink at home together once the kids go to bed.
My kids enrich my life in so many ways and in no way do they cramp my style. I'm still a person with a life.

That's all fine. Some people simply don't want children. They. Just. Don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's behind a paywall.

I just know I'm one of four millennial siblings and the only one to have kids. I supposed there's still time for my siblings to change their minds, but not much as they are approaching 40, and they are all pretty resolved not to have kids.

I'm a Gen Xer with 2 Gen X and 1 Millenial sibling. My mom had 5 kids and only has 3 grand kids. I'm one and done, one Gen X sister had 2 and we are the two eldest, so in my family, totally true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having kids simply isn't worth it. It's a huge pain and requires way too much sacrifice. Add in the the costs on top of that and it's a huge mess.
When people ask me about parenting and having kids I tell them if you really want to do it then have one kid. But really it's better not to have any. It's staggering the impact my children have had on our household wealth.

+100000 I deeply regret having children. It’s a lot of work with little reward. I admit in theory it’s nice having a family of four. But I’ve lost so much because of children. They ruined my body, I can’t travel freely, lost friendships, less money to spend on myself, have to live in a neighborhood with good schools or spend $100k on privates, etc. They are rarely enjoyable to be around as they constantly whine, complain and require me to do things. It’s constant work and even a good man will try to get you to do the bulk of the work. If I want to do something fun I have to schedule it on the family calendar so my husband is home. IT BLOWS.

I actually have had a different experience in that I love having kids and the compromises (less travel, way less spending money, more family activities vs individual activities) have been well worth it to me. That said, I do think a lot of this is my personality and what brings me happiness and that this is not universal. I think it is good that women are actually considering what would make them feel happy and fulfilled before stepping into motherhood.

One thing I don’t love is that women who do want kids and would gladly give up the travel and late nights out with friends feel they can’t afford to have kids even with both spouses working full time. We’ve made becoming a parent incredibly expensive and exhausting (esp for women).

I live outside a medium sized non coastal city in an area that is very family oriented which makes raising kids a lot easier. When I hear how much money you all have to make and how many activities and programs people on this site are signing kids up for to give them a baseline normal (for the area) childhood experience, I’m shocked. I can see why becoming a parent seems impossibly difficult and it’s no wonder some women are opting out.

+1. It has been hard but my kids add so much to my life. Maybe I just don't mind doing child-oriented activities. I just feel like, what would DH and I even be doing at this point in our lives if we didn't have kids? It seems so boring.

Right? Like, decades of trivia night at breweries and trying new brunch spots gets pretty monotonous, but that's all I see my childless friends doing.

Same. My husband and I think we should have had kids earlier than we did. We were waiting for the "right time" and were mid 30s. We could have started 4 years earlier and maybe had one more. We weren't doing anything interesting or exciting before then. Just working, dinners, some travel. But we could have done all that once we became empty nesters too and been younger for our kids the grandparents would have been younger too and had more energy than they do now in their mid 70s. That is a regret we both have.

Same.

It takes time to finish a professional degree, get established in a career, and then find someone.

We met and married very quickly (grad school) but then waited 4 years. Which in retrospect was a waste of time we regret just not getting on with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mormons are overwhelmingly politically conservative but have the highest rate of mental illness in the country.

https://www.abc4.com/news/utah-has-the-highest-rate-of-mental-health-illness-in-the-u-s/amp/

No, that’s not true. LDS folks just access mental health resources better and more than others.

Please provide backup for this statement.

NP.

I think you're both wrong? That study was about people in Utah, not Mormons specifically. I believe Mormons have slightly lower rates of mental illness, and I think a lot of mental illness in Mormonism is caused by the high number of SAHMs, who generally experience higher rates of depression regardless of political or religious affiliation.

[Anonymous]

If you ask a lot of random people, you will find that in general (like 90%+ prob):

- Those with many siblings (I have 3 friends from families that total 7 kids. All 3 friends have only 1 or 2 kids each. My dad have 6 and my mom had 5 kids - I am an only child. No other siblings of either side have more than 2 kids each) typically do not have as many kids themselves.

- Only children will have 1+ kids (I have 2 - it was hugely important for me to have 2. DH has 1 sibling, he wasn't looking to have more than 1 kid. His best friend has 4 kids in his family, he was very very late to be convinced to have one and absolutely done. None of his siblings have more than 2 kids each).

- Those who are one of 2-3 kids in a family typically have 2-3 kids total.

There are definitely exceptions to all the above of course but just saying, it's really interesting. The other thing is the friends I have who have 7 kids in their families - I'm super close to them and know their moms really well. They were exceedingly passionate about their careers, retired very late, had boundless energy/were strong women and lived past age 90.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many millennial men are willing & able to (a) be the sole provider so their wives can SAHM, or (b) take on 50% of house and kid responsibilities so their wives can also have a career? I guess option (c) is the men can SAHD but very few women are actually interested in that setup. There is your answer.

Yeah it’s this.

I wonder if, in the future, we’ll see two tracks. If you want kids as a woman, you’ll marry a high earner and SAHM. If you are ambivalent, you’ll keep working and be DINKS.

The happiest moms I know (including myself in here) are SAHMs to 3-4 kids and are married to high earning, golden retriever type husbands who adore their wives and genuinely seem to believe aphorisms like “happy wife, happy life.” They have money to hire help, local family, and time to devote to hobbies and friends. The women all have college degrees, some have advanced degrees, and worked for at least 8-10 years before kids. Most worked until the birth of their second kid. So they understand what it’s like to do both and voluntarily opted out because they could.

Money in this scenario = flexibility and choice.

This is 100% true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having kids simply isn't worth it. It's a huge pain and requires way too much sacrifice. Add in the the costs on top of that and it's a huge mess.
When people ask me about parenting and having kids I tell them if you really want to do it then have one kid. But really it's better not to have any. It's staggering the impact my children have had on our household wealth.

+100000 I deeply regret having children. It’s a lot of work with little reward. I admit in theory it’s nice having a family of four. But I’ve lost so much because of children. They ruined my body, I can’t travel freely, lost friendships, less money to spend on myself, have to live in a neighborhood with good schools or spend $100k on privates, etc. They are rarely enjoyable to be around as they constantly whine, complain and require me to do things. It’s constant work and even a good man will try to get you to do the bulk of the work. If I want to do something fun I have to schedule it on the family calendar so my husband is home. IT BLOWS.

I actually have had a different experience in that I love having kids and the compromises (less travel, way less spending money, more family activities vs individual activities) have been well worth it to me. That said, I do think a lot of this is my personality and what brings me happiness and that this is not universal. I think it is good that women are actually considering what would make them feel happy and fulfilled before stepping into motherhood.

One thing I don’t love is that women who do want kids and would gladly give up the travel and late nights out with friends feel they can’t afford to have kids even with both spouses working full time. We’ve made becoming a parent incredibly expensive and exhausting (esp for women).

I live outside a medium sized non coastal city in an area that is very family oriented which makes raising kids a lot easier. When I hear how much money you all have to make and how many activities and programs people on this site are signing kids up for to give them a baseline normal (for the area) childhood experience, I’m shocked. I can see why becoming a parent seems impossibly difficult and it’s no wonder some women are opting out.

+1. It has been hard but my kids add so much to my life. Maybe I just don't mind doing child-oriented activities. I just feel like, what would DH and I even be doing at this point in our lives if we didn't have kids? It seems so boring.

Right? Like, decades of trivia night at breweries and trying new brunch spots gets pretty monotonous, but that's all I see my childless friends doing.

Omg same, I think about this whenever these articles come up. Life without kids seems monotonous. What do you even look forward to? Where does the forward momentum come from?

Fwiw, this is coming from someone who has 3 kids but still works, sees friends, travels, has hobbies etc. So it’s not like I don’t have other things going on but def my kids provide my biggest source of purpose, meaning, connection to the future, and forward momentum. Everything is oriented around getting them successfully launched.

I have a kid, but if I didn’t my life wouldn’t be dull at all because I have a lot of interests. What is your plan when the kids leave? Just be bored and purposeless until you get grandkids??

I feel the same way. And all my childless friends are doing really fun, interesting things. The forward momentum comes from experiencing life. They have also developed great communities.

Please don’t feel sorry for the childfree by choice - they have millions of books to read, movies and shows to watch, outdoor activities and indoor activities and friends and family and other people’s kids to enjoy in small doses and all without the expense, worry and stress of being responsible for other human beings who might very well grow up to hate their parents, be estranged from their parents, bring shame or even tragedy to their parents, or be a lifelong burden to their parents for a variety of reasons.

Why are some parents so insecure that they feel the need to denigrate people who don’t want to be parents? Shame on them, anyway. Feel sorry for their kids because there is something not right in that parent’s psychological profile and the kid is probably suffering from it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many millennial men are willing & able to (a) be the sole provider so their wives can SAHM, or (b) take on 50% of house and kid responsibilities so their wives can also have a career? I guess option (c) is the men can SAHD but very few women are actually interested in that setup. There is your answer.

Yeah it’s this.

I wonder if, in the future, we’ll see two tracks. If you want kids as a woman, you’ll marry a high earner and SAHM. If you are ambivalent, you’ll keep working and be DINKS.

The happiest moms I know (including myself in here) are SAHMs to 3-4 kids and are married to high earning, golden retriever type husbands who adore their wives and genuinely seem to believe aphorisms like “happy wife, happy life.” They have money to hire help, local family, and time to devote to hobbies and friends. The women all have college degrees, some have advanced degrees, and worked for at least 8-10 years before kids. Most worked until the birth of their second kid. So they understand what it’s like to do both and voluntarily opted out because they could.

Money in this scenario = flexibility and choice.

This is 100% true.

DP: it’s almost never true that there are only two ways to happily do something - especially something as large and complex as live an adult life. Plenty of us manage to work in meaningful careers while raising children. We’re even happy! We also know that we don’t need to be “the happiest moms” to be happy and fulfilled. It’s not like happiness pie and there’s only so much to go around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mormons are overwhelmingly politically conservative but have the highest rate of mental illness in the country.

https://www.abc4.com/news/utah-has-the-highest-rate-of-mental-health-illness-in-the-u-s/amp/

No, that’s not true. LDS folks just access mental health resources better and more than others.

Please provide backup for this statement.

NP.

I think you're both wrong? That study was about people in Utah, not Mormons specifically. I believe Mormons have slightly lower rates of mental illness, and I think a lot of mental illness in Mormonism is caused by the high number of SAHMs, who generally experience higher rates of depression regardless of political or religious affiliation.

66% of the population of Utah is Mormon! Far higher than any other state. Are you really positing that it’s all non-Mormons in Utah who are experiencing mental illness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People always say they were “traveling” before kids as opposed to after. I always wonder what this means. We had ours on the early side (started mid twenties) but as our HHI rose, we were able to start traveling with them. We typically take 5 week long vacations a year. We 3 kids, it’s not cheap so we mostly look for short flights. We mostly do domestic locations (for skiing or hiking in the nationals parks), Caribbean for spring break, Europe or Canada during the summer, etc. This is similar to our neighbors and kids’ friends.

What kind of traveling were you doing before kids that was so different to what you’re doing now? Were you moving around from place to place like digital nomads?

When I was in my 20s we barely had any money or time off. It was a grind.

When you have kids, you are limited to traveling during times they are out of school, typically the summer which is more expensive and more crowded.

We traveled a lot mid September to October, or late April to May. We also traveled to places that kids wouldn't enjoy. Once we had kids, it was mostly destinations that we would not have necessarily picked had we been childless. Not to mention that we could only do things that were kid friendly.

We were making six figures by our late 20s, so we traveled a lot prekids.

So it isn’t about travel, but about a TYPE of travel or a TIME of travel? I mean, ok?

Fwiw, we’ve found international travel to be fine with kids. People looked at us funky when we took three kids (youngest was 5) to Mexico City but the trip was great. I get it, travel without kids is different, but that doesn’t mean better or worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Except, I did not make it up. See the responses on the same page.

Or google it.

Here’s a clue: the study was conducted by the Pew foundation. Ever hear of them?

It’s true the data shows white liberal women are “more likely to seek mental health evaluations” which simply means they have access to healthcare.

Or, it could simply mean this cohort of women experience far more mental illness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got married my wife and I was making $55k each. My wife wanted kids right away.

We bought a small fixer upper house in a second tier neighborhood after 15 months of marriage and had our kid after 16 months of marriage. My wife decided to leave work after first one born and I was making $62k a year!!

With a kid and a mortgage and wife to support.

She said if you let me do this I will 100 percent support career, work late, travel, go to work events pretty much you do your career even if you work to 8 pm every night things will run here.

Shortly after baby born got raise and promotion to 86k

Then we had second and not long after raise promotion 120k

Then we had 3rd switched jobs raise promotion to $180k

Ten years after birth of first I was making $300k a year.

A man need a rock on his back to perform. Nothing better than babies and a SAH wife and a mortgage.

The baby brings the bread.

Okay, but this sounds miserable. This is how men have heart attacks when they're 55.

Reminds me of the cats in the cradle song like it's really sad that in order to let one person stay home, the other person basically never gets to spend time with their children because they're working till 8:00