Millennial women are saying no thanks to parenthood

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see this a lot on various social media sites: TikTok, Reddit, etc.

I have 3 kids and I’m 41 so an “elderly millennial.” And I started in my late twenties do my kids are teens now. But I really don’t think my life has been that hard or that bad? It’s not like every second has been stress free but overall the joys of kids vastly outweigh the cons imho.

I don’t get why millennials seem to think it is unrelenting misery. Kids add a lot to your life: love, joy, laughter, purpose, meaning, connection, etc.

OK but tell us more. What is your HHi? Is your husband helpful? Did you WOHM? Any kids special needs? Do you have a support system nearby? Did you have a nanny or other home based help? Do you live in a high COL area? What would happen if your husband divorced you, would you still have a good quality of life?

Yes I am lucky to have a helpful husband, local supportive family on both sides, and a high hhi. But so do a lot of people who claim children to be unrelenting misery and drudgery.

A lot of these people have dogs and to me it is somewhat similar (though obviously kids require a lot more time, energy, money, attention, etc.). Dogs are a lot of work right? But most dog owners would agree that the early morning wake-up’s, the mess, the possible accidents and destruction, etc. are worth the joy that dogs bring to their owners. Same thing applies with kids.

I don't know. I have a kid but don't have the stuff you do. My husband has mental health issues and ADHD and isn't very helpful. No local supportive family (actually no supportive family of any kind). Middle class.

I still love being a mom but I really relate to the complaining about parenting you see on social media because I do struggle. I still think it's worth it, but I am frank with others that it's a lot harder than I expected it to be. Not the every day parenting stuff -- I think I'm pretty good at that. But the lack of support, the challenges with childcare when you have so little back up, the financial pressure to alway see spending more and more and there is always something else (out of network healthcare, braces, tutoring, etc.) that costs another few thousand dollars, all while also trying to save for retirement and college. It's hard.

Being a mom? It's great. All the $hit that comes along with being a mom in 2023? A lot of it sucks. I'm glad you don't have to deal with some if it, but I do and I understand why other people my age have chosen to skip it even if I know that they are missing out on some really great stuff that comes with being a parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cringe. Imagine the thousands of years of couples that got together and sacrificed to ultimately get you into this world (including your parents) only to have that genetic line come to an abrupt halt because you think you know better because you went to university and read Twitter. Sad world to live in.

Or only having a daughter who marries and rids the family name! The horror!!!

No, having a daughter is completely fine. At least you did your part to continue the unique history of your family tree. The tree didn’t just wither and die bc “I want to go to brunch for the rest of my life”. And this rant is only directed at people who are “childless by choice” or people who have just given up on family formation due to lifestyle. If you are medically unable that’s a tragic burden to bear and I feel for you.

Is that you, brunch granny?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

+1 and I'm a working mom. Even my work is probably more meaningful as a means of providing for my kids, or to show them the value of hard work and perseverance, than in terms of the actual impact my work has on the world at large. Most jobs just really are not that meaningful. If you have a very meaningful job, more power to you, but most people I know (men and women) feel the same.

Even my friends without kids would not tell you their jobs are true achievements. Some have really invested a lot of themselves in volunteer work, some are just very invested in their friendships and other relationships (including their friends' kids). I have a couple who are clearly very depressed because they have hit middle age and realized their jobs aren't that meaningful (even in careers where you'd think there was more built-in meaning, like medicine, teaching, and diplomacy) and are struggling with never having kids and not really knowing where to go from there. I think it's tough. They'll figure it out and find some way to build meaning in, but having kids sure is an easy shortcut to that kind of fulfillment.

This is true of my female friends, but less true of a few men I know who have remained childless into middle age. Women in most cultures are more conditioned than men to derive meaning and purpose from having children, which is important because women typically make the most sacrifices.

PP here and I know two men who are mid-to-late 40s, one is divorced and one is never married. Neither had kids, and I know they are both kind of devastated about it. One of them has a very high flying career in a really elite field, the kind of job that really impresses other people and where he has genuine influence over things most people would deem important. The other works in medicine. I think they both feel they just kind of never had a chance to have kids.

That doesn't mean that if they'd had kids, they wouldn't have expected their wives to make the bigger sacrifice. In fact in both case I feel confident they would have, and that this might have played a role in them not finding partners. Which actually speaks directly to this thread -- I think more and more women are either looking at their dating pool OR looking at their male partners and realizing that having kids with these guys would help fulfill the men while the woman does most of the work.

And as someone who is married with a a kid... they are not wrong. Men do want kids. But it's women who have to make it happen, and increasingly, they choose not to, and for good reasons.

Late 40s ... they both may still end up marrying someone who is 28-35 and wants to have kids and stay home with them; again, the injustices.

Yea. Men in their late 40s are actually a catch with their established careers. My friend had his first at 50 and his wife is 38. He has lived a great life and will continue to do so while his wife does most of the childcare. Women and men are not the same when it comes having children.

He'll be lucky to see his kids graduate from college.

Oh come on. 50 is old for a dad yes. But when his kid graduates from college he’ll be about 72. That’s younger than a significant number of our members of Congress! I know anything can happen, but making it to your early 70s isn’t “lucky” as long as you take care of yourself even remotely well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Actually having kids is kind of selfish and indulgent, yes.

But once you have them, the choice to actually dedicate yourself to raising them, giving them a good start to life, and guiding them into adulthood as good people is the opposite of selfish or indulgent. Not all parents do this, but those that do are engaged in truly meaningful work and it is an achievement.

The vast majority of people never do professional work that anyone really cares about beyond their immediate circle. Hard truth. This is why parenting presents a lot of people with the opportunity to finally do something really lasting and meaningful.

That's right. The achievement is not "having children" which is not an accomplishment in itself, but to dedicate years of your life to raising them to be good adults. That is much more needed in this world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see this a lot on various social media sites: TikTok, Reddit, etc.

I have 3 kids and I’m 41 so an “elderly millennial.” And I started in my late twenties do my kids are teens now. But I really don’t think my life has been that hard or that bad? It’s not like every second has been stress free but overall the joys of kids vastly outweigh the cons imho.

I don’t get why millennials seem to think it is unrelenting misery. Kids add a lot to your life: love, joy, laughter, purpose, meaning, connection, etc.

Yeah I don’t get it either. I see this stuff and I’m like, it’s really not that bad??? And their cuteness as babies and toddlers more than makes up for the parts that suck (diapers, tantrums, middle of the night feedings, lack of sleep etc.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cringe. Imagine the thousands of years of couples that got together and sacrificed to ultimately get you into this world (including your parents) only to have that genetic line come to an abrupt halt because you think you know better because you went to university and read Twitter. Sad world to live in.

Oh, it’s the weirdo from this thread:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/legacy/posts/list/1147675.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Inflation…Milk cost $7.50. Need to feed kids….inflation.

What milk costs $7.50? A gallon at Wegmans costs 3-4 dollars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting WAPO article -
"Millennials aren't having kids"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/11/03/millennials-only-children/
I love seeing the data on this. It really follows closely what I see in my personal life among my friends. What do you think are the reasons? I don't think it will turn around, millennial are rapidly approaching 40 or are already there.

Its great for women to have a choice but in ling term, human race would see consequences as obviously pets can't support aging population, kids are needed to grow up and take the wheel.

That being said, its our collective fault to put women in this situation where they can't have a balance due to lack of needed support.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

+1 and I'm a working mom. Even my work is probably more meaningful as a means of providing for my kids, or to show them the value of hard work and perseverance, than in terms of the actual impact my work has on the world at large. Most jobs just really are not that meaningful. If you have a very meaningful job, more power to you, but most people I know (men and women) feel the same.

Even my friends without kids would not tell you their jobs are true achievements. Some have really invested a lot of themselves in volunteer work, some are just very invested in their friendships and other relationships (including their friends' kids). I have a couple who are clearly very depressed because they have hit middle age and realized their jobs aren't that meaningful (even in careers where you'd think there was more built-in meaning, like medicine, teaching, and diplomacy) and are struggling with never having kids and not really knowing where to go from there. I think it's tough. They'll figure it out and find some way to build meaning in, but having kids sure is an easy shortcut to that kind of fulfillment.

This is true of my female friends, but less true of a few men I know who have remained childless into middle age. Women in most cultures are more conditioned than men to derive meaning and purpose from having children, which is important because women typically make the most sacrifices.

PP here and I know two men who are mid-to-late 40s, one is divorced and one is never married. Neither had kids, and I know they are both kind of devastated about it. One of them has a very high flying career in a really elite field, the kind of job that really impresses other people and where he has genuine influence over things most people would deem important. The other works in medicine. I think they both feel they just kind of never had a chance to have kids.

That doesn't mean that if they'd had kids, they wouldn't have expected their wives to make the bigger sacrifice. In fact in both case I feel confident they would have, and that this might have played a role in them not finding partners. Which actually speaks directly to this thread -- I think more and more women are either looking at their dating pool OR looking at their male partners and realizing that having kids with these guys would help fulfill the men while the woman does most of the work.

And as someone who is married with a a kid... they are not wrong. Men do want kids. But it's women who have to make it happen, and increasingly, they choose not to, and for good reasons.

Late 40s ... they both may still end up marrying someone who is 28-35 and wants to have kids and stay home with them; again, the injustices.

Yea. Men in their late 40s are actually a catch with their established careers. My friend had his first at 50 and his wife is 38. He has lived a great life and will continue to do so while his wife does most of the childcare. Women and men are not the same when it comes having children.

He'll be lucky to see his kids graduate from college.

Oh come on. 50 is old for a dad yes. But when his kid graduates from college he’ll be about 72. That’s younger than a significant number of our members of Congress! I know anything can happen, but making it to your early 70s isn’t “lucky” as long as you take care of yourself even remotely well.

Life expectency for men in the US is 73. So yeah, he will be fortunate to see his kids graduate from college, let alone attend their wedding or meet his grandkids.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/01/why-american-men-die-younger-than-women-on-average-and-how-to-fix-it.html

[Anonymous]

If you had a crappy home life as a child and your parents got divorced you’re often predisposed to not want the cycle to continue. Just be sure that when you get married that your spouse to be is aware of your feelings.

[Anonymous]

My parents had four kids spread over many years. The two Gen Xers have children; the two millennials don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

+1 and I'm a working mom. Even my work is probably more meaningful as a means of providing for my kids, or to show them the value of hard work and perseverance, than in terms of the actual impact my work has on the world at large. Most jobs just really are not that meaningful. If you have a very meaningful job, more power to you, but most people I know (men and women) feel the same.

Even my friends without kids would not tell you their jobs are true achievements. Some have really invested a lot of themselves in volunteer work, some are just very invested in their friendships and other relationships (including their friends' kids). I have a couple who are clearly very depressed because they have hit middle age and realized their jobs aren't that meaningful (even in careers where you'd think there was more built-in meaning, like medicine, teaching, and diplomacy) and are struggling with never having kids and not really knowing where to go from there. I think it's tough. They'll figure it out and find some way to build meaning in, but having kids sure is an easy shortcut to that kind of fulfillment.

This is true of my female friends, but less true of a few men I know who have remained childless into middle age. Women in most cultures are more conditioned than men to derive meaning and purpose from having children, which is important because women typically make the most sacrifices.

PP here and I know two men who are mid-to-late 40s, one is divorced and one is never married. Neither had kids, and I know they are both kind of devastated about it. One of them has a very high flying career in a really elite field, the kind of job that really impresses other people and where he has genuine influence over things most people would deem important. The other works in medicine. I think they both feel they just kind of never had a chance to have kids.

That doesn't mean that if they'd had kids, they wouldn't have expected their wives to make the bigger sacrifice. In fact in both case I feel confident they would have, and that this might have played a role in them not finding partners. Which actually speaks directly to this thread -- I think more and more women are either looking at their dating pool OR looking at their male partners and realizing that having kids with these guys would help fulfill the men while the woman does most of the work.

And as someone who is married with a a kid... they are not wrong. Men do want kids. But it's women who have to make it happen, and increasingly, they choose not to, and for good reasons.

Late 40s ... they both may still end up marrying someone who is 28-35 and wants to have kids and stay home with them; again, the injustices.

Yea. Men in their late 40s are actually a catch with their established careers. My friend had his first at 50 and his wife is 38. He has lived a great life and will continue to do so while his wife does most of the childcare. Women and men are not the same when it comes having children.

He'll be lucky to see his kids graduate from college.

Oh come on. 50 is old for a dad yes. But when his kid graduates from college he’ll be about 72. That’s younger than a significant number of our members of Congress! I know anything can happen, but making it to your early 70s isn’t “lucky” as long as you take care of yourself even remotely well.

Life expectency for men in the US is 73. So yeah, he will be fortunate to see his kids graduate from college, let alone attend their wedding or meet his grandkids.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/01/why-american-men-die-younger-than-women-on-average-and-how-to-fix-it.html

True but from his perspective, that’s better than no kids, and if he’s wealthy and reasonably attractive in late forties, he can probably find a partner and have a family.

[Anonymous]

I think the “kids are a drag, your life is OVER once you become a parent blah blah” really factors in. My own parents had 4 kids and it was more about the kids fitting into their lifestyle vs arranging the family lifestyle around the kids’ needs, if that makes sense. We tagged along with whatever they were doing, were expected to entertain ourselves, or (when old enough) make our own plans with friends, go play with the neighborhood kids etc. No travel sports, enrichment classes, lessons etc etc etc. My parents spent the weekend doing a few chores, and then whatever they would normally do- we just tagged along. They went out and/or saw friends most Friday and Saturday nights- sometimes they’d get a sitter. Other times they’d get together with friends at someone’s house- all the kids came along and were expected to play or find something to do while the parents socialized/had drinks/played cards or whatever. On Sundays we saw extended family and often my dad watched football. Again, we were expected to entertain ourselves, play with cousins, whatever. Kid centered family outings (going to the zoo etc) happened but not every weekend. Weeknights my parents usually watched tv after dinner and again- after homework we watched with them or entertained ourselves. My life growing up is definitely nothing like my kids’ lives now- and DH and I have waaaaaay less free time than our parents. These days, most family’s lives are completely consumed by the kids’ needs and activities- weeknights, weekends, everything. Ours included, to some degree. I love being a parent but it is a very different time now (and one can only buck the trends so much)- I can see why having kids is not appealing for some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the “kids are a drag, your life is OVER once you become a parent blah blah” really factors in. My own parents had 4 kids and it was more about the kids fitting into their lifestyle vs arranging the family lifestyle around the kids’ needs, if that makes sense. We tagged along with whatever they were doing, were expected to entertain ourselves, or (when old enough) make our own plans with friends, go play with the neighborhood kids etc. No travel sports, enrichment classes, lessons etc etc etc. My parents spent the weekend doing a few chores, and then whatever they would normally do- we just tagged along. They went out and/or saw friends most Friday and Saturday nights- sometimes they’d get a sitter. Other times they’d get together with friends at someone’s house- all the kids came along and were expected to play or find something to do while the parents socialized/had drinks/played cards or whatever. On Sundays we saw extended family and often my dad watched football. Again, we were expected to entertain ourselves, play with cousins, whatever. Kid centered family outings (going to the zoo etc) happened but not every weekend. Weeknights my parents usually watched tv after dinner and again- after homework we watched with them or entertained ourselves. My life growing up is definitely nothing like my kids’ lives now- and DH and I have waaaaaay less free time than our parents. These days, most family’s lives are completely consumed by the kids’ needs and activities- weeknights, weekends, everything. Ours included, to some degree. I love being a parent but it is a very different time now (and one can only buck the trends so much)- I can see why having kids is not appealing for some.

I’m a parent and more fit my kids into our lifestyle. I don’t think it’s any better or worse for the kids and we are happier adults because of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see this a lot on various social media sites: TikTok, Reddit, etc.

I have 3 kids and I’m 41 so an “elderly millennial.” And I started in my late twenties do my kids are teens now. But I really don’t think my life has been that hard or that bad? It’s not like every second has been stress free but overall the joys of kids vastly outweigh the cons imho.

I don’t get why millennials seem to think it is unrelenting misery. Kids add a lot to your life: love, joy, laughter, purpose, meaning, connection, etc.

I agree. I don't get it.