Reply to Millennial women are saying no thanks to parenthood

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to [b]being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married.[/b] I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

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It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs). [/quote]

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".[/quote]

It's the most important achievement.  Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.[/quote]

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement. [/quote]

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve. [/quote]

+1 and I'm a working mom. Even my work is probably more meaningful as a means of providing for my kids, or to show them the value of hard work and perseverance, than in terms of the actual impact my work has on the world at large. Most jobs just really are not that meaningful. If you have a very meaningful job, more power to you, but most people I know (men and women) feel the same.

Even my friends without kids would not tell you their jobs are true achievements. Some have really invested a lot of themselves in volunteer work, some are just very invested in their friendships and other relationships (including their friends' kids). I have a couple who are clearly very depressed because they have hit middle age and realized their jobs aren't that meaningful (even in careers where you'd think there was more built-in meaning, like medicine, teaching, and diplomacy) and are struggling with never having kids and not really knowing where to go from there. I think it's tough. They'll figure it out and find some way to build meaning in, but having kids sure is an easy shortcut to that kind of fulfillment.[/quote]

This is true of my female friends, but less true of a few men I know who have remained childless into middle age.  Women in most cultures are more conditioned than men to derive meaning and purpose from having children, which is important because women typically make the most sacrifices.  [/quote]

PP here and I know two men who are mid-to-late 40s, one is divorced and one is never married. Neither had kids, and I know they are both kind of devastated about it. One of them has a very high flying career in a really elite field, the kind of job that really impresses other people and where he has genuine influence over things most people would deem important. The other works in medicine. I think they both feel they just kind of never had a chance to have kids.

That doesn't mean that if they'd had kids, they wouldn't have expected their wives to make the bigger sacrifice. In fact in both case I feel confident they would have, and that this might have played a role in them not finding partners. Which actually speaks directly to this thread -- I think more and more women are either looking at their dating pool OR looking at their male partners and realizing that having kids with these guys would help fulfill the men while the woman does most of the work.

And as someone who is married with a a kid... they are not wrong. Men do want kids. But it's women who have to make it happen, and increasingly, they choose not to, and for good reasons.[/quote]

Late 40s ... they both may still end up marrying someone who is 28-35 and wants to have kids and stay home with them; again, the injustices.  [/quote]

Yea. Men in their late 40s are actually a catch with their established careers. My friend had his first at 50 and his wife is 38. He has lived a great life and will continue to do so while his wife does most of the childcare. Women and men are not the same when it comes having children.[/quote]

He'll be lucky to see his kids graduate from college.[/quote]

Oh come on. 50 is old for a dad yes. But when his kid graduates from college he’ll be about 72. That’s younger than a significant number of our members of Congress! I know anything can happen, but making it to your early 70s isn’t “lucky” as long as you take care of yourself even remotely well. [/quote]

Life expectency for men in the US is 73. So yeah, he will be fortunate to see his kids graduate from college, let alone attend their wedding or meet his grandkids.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/01/why-american-men-die-younger-than-women-on-average-and-how-to-fix-it.html[/quote]

That's the average US men, not the rich ones who have their first kids in early 50s.  That 73 y.o. average life expectancy includes people who die of alcohol related liver failure in their 40s and overdose in their 30s.

If you really want some meaningful statistics, look up the pension valuation table - employed white collar men.   [/quote]

My point remains, he will be lucky to see his kids graduate from college. You act like doctors are the healthiest physical specimens to exist. [/quote]

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