girlfriend on family vacation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow y'all PPs are nuts and completely going off on your own imaginary scenarios.

this is a GF NOT wife
a long-planned one time family trip NOT weekly dinners
less than a year relationship NOT 20-year marriage
DS active in planning (pre-GF) NOT a demanding mother usurpring DS's valuable time off

If you're about to reply talking about ILs and husbands.... you're in the wrong thread

Thank you! (I am OP.)

Fair point to err on the side of being inclusive because this could set the tone for the future - I didn’t really think of it that way and I acknowledged I was probably wrong many pages ago! I think I felt reluctant mostly because things have moved so fast and we’ve been here before. But all the many PPs are probably right that we should think long term on this.

Also the whole spouses conversation - people setting standards on how much their spouse should be able to see their parents etc- makes me realize what a good marriage I have! We both encourage the other to spend time with our families alone. And are always totally fine when the other does that. That time with my parents is so important to me! And my husband’s is to him. And maybe that’s why I came at this the way I did initially. I can’t imagine criticizing my mother in law for wanting time alone with my husband.

Lastly I do think this convo is pretty tilted toward stereotypes of moms/sons.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt, carry on with the in-law venting!

I disagree if a couple lives together they are acting as married and should be treated accordingly. Besides many many people get married after a year of dating. And it's 2023 time to get away from the 1959s mindset of they have to be married to be taken seriously. What about couples who live together but never get married should they always be excluded?

I would find it odd if a couple lives together to tell them they aren't welcome to bring their partner they literally share property with and a life with. I'm assuming your child probably considers them their family

If your child no longer lives in your home the days of "nuclear family" trips and excluding someone's serious SO especially if they live together is out of the question. No more. They are clearly presenting that they are a unit. And it's not up to anyone else outside of the relationship to determine they are not. You should treat the couple how they present themselves.

Because I'm sure PPs sons considers his "nuclear" family the woman he is living with. He isn't living at home with his parents and siblings. That ship has sailed.

I also totally disagree that mom isn't taking away his vacation time. By excluding his serious girlfriend she is expecting him to use vacation time for mommy and that's less time for him and his gf. Most 25 year old men would rather vacation with their partner they live with than their mommy. That's literally the definition of taking away his vacation time because that's now less for the couple.

Also doesn't it set a bad precedent to leave her out now. What if she is hurt by that? And feels excluded. What harm does it do to be inclusive and kind to people. Too much inclusivity never hurt anyone but being exclusive has hurt feelings.

Did you read the post you responded to?

OP literally said that she was "wrong", would think long term and is inviting the SO.

And my friends are not "literally taking away my vacation time" when they INVITE me on a girls trip.
When I am INVITED to a destination, the couple inviting is not "literally taking away my vacation time."
When my parents INVITE my family to a beach house for a week, they are not "literally taking away my family time."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow y'all PPs are nuts and completely going off on your own imaginary scenarios.

this is a GF NOT wife
a long-planned one time family trip NOT weekly dinners
less than a year relationship NOT 20-year marriage
DS active in planning (pre-GF) NOT a demanding mother usurpring DS's valuable time off

If you're about to reply talking about ILs and husbands.... you're in the wrong thread

Thank you! (I am OP.)

Fair point to err on the side of being inclusive because this could set the tone for the future - I didn’t really think of it that way and I acknowledged I was probably wrong many pages ago! I think I felt reluctant mostly because things have moved so fast and we’ve been here before. But all the many PPs are probably right that we should think long term on this.

Also the whole spouses conversation - people setting standards on how much their spouse should be able to see their parents etc- makes me realize what a good marriage I have! We both encourage the other to spend time with our families alone. And are always totally fine when the other does that. That time with my parents is so important to me! And my husband’s is to him. And maybe that’s why I came at this the way I did initially. I can’t imagine criticizing my mother in law for wanting time alone with my husband.

Lastly I do think this convo is pretty tilted toward stereotypes of moms/sons.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt, carry on with the in-law venting!

I disagree if a couple lives together they are acting as married and should be treated accordingly. Besides many many people get married after a year of dating. And it's 2023 time to get away from the 1959s mindset of they have to be married to be taken seriously. What about couples who live together but never get married should they always be excluded?

I would find it odd if a couple lives together to tell them they aren't welcome to bring their partner they literally share property with and a life with. I'm assuming your child probably considers them their family

If your child no longer lives in your home the days of "nuclear family" trips and excluding someone's serious SO especially if they live together is out of the question. No more. They are clearly presenting that they are a unit. And it's not up to anyone else outside of the relationship to determine they are not. You should treat the couple how they present themselves.

Because I'm sure PPs sons considers his "nuclear" family the woman he is living with. He isn't living at home with his parents and siblings. That ship has sailed.

I also totally disagree that mom isn't taking away his vacation time. By excluding his serious girlfriend she is expecting him to use vacation time for mommy and that's less time for him and his gf. Most 25 year old men would rather vacation with their partner they live with than their mommy. That's literally the definition of taking away his vacation time because that's now less for the couple.

Also doesn't it set a bad precedent to leave her out now. What if she is hurt by that? And feels excluded. What harm does it do to be inclusive and kind to people. Too much inclusivity never hurt anyone but being exclusive has hurt feelings.

Did you read the post you responded to?

OP literally said that she was "wrong", would think long term and is inviting the SO.

And my friends are not "literally taking away my vacation time" when they INVITE me on a girls trip.
When I am INVITED to a destination, the couple inviting is not "literally taking away my vacation time."
When my parents INVITE my family to a beach house for a week, they are not "literally taking away my family time."

We all have limited vacation time and money. So yes, when you choose to take a vacation you are "using up that time and money". So if your parents invite you and only you, not your spouse and kids, on a vacation, they are taking you away from time with your family. No reasonable parent would do that if the kid was married, we are just arguing that if your kid is living with someone it is a serious relationship and should be treated as if they are a couple and invited together. After that it is up to you if you go alone or with your entire immediate household.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow y'all PPs are nuts and completely going off on your own imaginary scenarios.

this is a GF NOT wife
a long-planned one time family trip NOT weekly dinners
less than a year relationship NOT 20-year marriage
DS active in planning (pre-GF) NOT a demanding mother usurpring DS's valuable time off

If you're about to reply talking about ILs and husbands.... you're in the wrong thread

Thank you! (I am OP.)

Fair point to err on the side of being inclusive because this could set the tone for the future - I didn’t really think of it that way and I acknowledged I was probably wrong many pages ago! I think I felt reluctant mostly because things have moved so fast and we’ve been here before. But all the many PPs are probably right that we should think long term on this.

Also the whole spouses conversation - people setting standards on how much their spouse should be able to see their parents etc- makes me realize what a good marriage I have! We both encourage the other to spend time with our families alone. And are always totally fine when the other does that. That time with my parents is so important to me! And my husband’s is to him. And maybe that’s why I came at this the way I did initially. I can’t imagine criticizing my mother in law for wanting time alone with my husband.

Lastly I do think this convo is pretty tilted toward stereotypes of moms/sons.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt, carry on with the in-law venting!

I disagree if a couple lives together they are acting as married and should be treated accordingly. Besides many many people get married after a year of dating. And it's 2023 time to get away from the 1959s mindset of they have to be married to be taken seriously. What about couples who live together but never get married should they always be excluded?

I would find it odd if a couple lives together to tell them they aren't welcome to bring their partner they literally share property with and a life with. I'm assuming your child probably considers them their family

If your child no longer lives in your home the days of "nuclear family" trips and excluding someone's serious SO especially if they live together is out of the question. No more. They are clearly presenting that they are a unit. And it's not up to anyone else outside of the relationship to determine they are not. You should treat the couple how they present themselves.

Because I'm sure PPs sons considers his "nuclear" family the woman he is living with. He isn't living at home with his parents and siblings. That ship has sailed.

I also totally disagree that mom isn't taking away his vacation time. By excluding his serious girlfriend she is expecting him to use vacation time for mommy and that's less time for him and his gf. Most 25 year old men would rather vacation with their partner they live with than their mommy. That's literally the definition of taking away his vacation time because that's now less for the couple.

Also doesn't it set a bad precedent to leave her out now. What if she is hurt by that? And feels excluded. What harm does it do to be inclusive and kind to people. Too much inclusivity never hurt anyone but being exclusive has hurt feelings.

Did you read the post you responded to?

OP literally said that she was "wrong", would think long term and is inviting the SO.

And my friends are not "literally taking away my vacation time" when they INVITE me on a girls trip.
When I am INVITED to a destination, the couple inviting is not "literally taking away my vacation time."
When my parents INVITE my family to a beach house for a week, they are not "literally taking away my family time."

We all have limited vacation time and money. So yes, when you choose to take a vacation you are "using up that time and money". So if your parents invite you and only you, not your spouse and kids, on a vacation, they are taking you away from time with your family. No reasonable parent would do that if the kid was married, we are just arguing that if your kid is living with someone it is a serious relationship and should be treated as if they are a couple and invited together. After that it is up to you if you go alone or with your entire immediate household.

PP here. The bolded is absolutely correct. The person choosing to use their vacation time on a trip they ae invited to is using their own vacation time.

But then you get confused again. The person OFFERING the trip is not "literally taking away" the time of the person being offered.

[Anonymous]

New poster. I'm curious how many of these MILs who are asking their son's wives to stay at home while they ask their their son to come over or do things with them without their son's wife is making any sort of effort to include the DIL into the family in other areas? Or to foster an independent relationship with her as their DIL? Does she ever and the DIL to go out shopping, or to get their nails done, or to grab lunch together?

I think why a lot of people seem to take issues with mother and son spending alone time together without their wife is because most men are gonna want their wives included and plus there is a very very fine line between wanting time alone with your son and the mothers that request this not being able to accept that their son's are married and they are no longer the #1 woman in their son's life so they are trying to subconsciously shit out the wife/their DIL or they are unable to cut the apron strings from their adult sons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New poster. I'm curious how many of these MILs who are asking their son's wives to stay at home while they ask their their son to come over or do things with them without their son's wife is making any sort of effort to include the DIL into the family in other areas? Or to foster an independent relationship with her as their DIL? Does she ever and the DIL to go out shopping, or to get their nails done, or to grab lunch together?

I think why a lot of people seem to take issues with mother and son spending alone time together without their wife is because most men are gonna want their wives included and plus there is a very very fine line between wanting time alone with your son and the mothers that request this not being able to accept that their son's are married and they are no longer the #1 woman in their son's life so they are trying to subconsciously shit out the wife/their DIL or they are unable to cut the apron strings from their adult sons.

shut out*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not one plane ticket. It’s food out and bigger Ubers and bigger accommodations and additional excursions costs……. Just like you women where don’t want to see your MIL all the time or have her include herself in your family events all the time, we want to spend time with our family/our kids without you as well especially if you are expecting me to pay for your full ride while pushing me out of my sons life.

With that attitude, no doubt your son and his future partner will not want you in their life. Loving parents want to see their kids with their spouses/partners/Significant others, especially on vacation. Only reason a parent should expect to see just their kid (once a partner is involved) is if it's a guys event or a girls only event (ie: dad and son are going to a sporting event just the 2 of them). But if it's both parents, then you invite the couple, not just your kid.

Keep that attitude up and you won't be seeing much of your grandkids either in the future.

Wait, so if I am a 40yo female who routinely goes out to dinner with just my dad about every other month, is that wrong?

Yeah I find it extremely hypocritical when women can have mother/daughter days with their mothers after marriage but if God forbid a mother asks to have dinner or lunch alone with her married son it's all OMG why is she shutting out her son's wife clearly she can't let go.

If mother and daughters can still have their individual relationships in tact after marriage why can't mothers and sons maintain their individual relationships??

Has anyone anywhere suggested that they can’t?

20:57
"With that attitude, no doubt your son and his future partner will not want you in their life. Loving parents want to see their kids with their spouses/partners/Significant others, especially on vacation. Only reason a parent should expect to see just their kid (once a partner is involved) is if it's a guys event or a girls only event (ie: dad and son are going to a sporting event just the 2 of them). But if it's both parents, then you invite the couple, not just your kid."

So it's ok for each parent to have their spouse but their child is expected to include their spouse. Don't tell me what it's all their parents. Because you could say well it's also your DIL/SIL plus your child's spouse.

Now if it's just one parent and child regardless of gender totally different story

I'm the PP from the post directly above. I also wanted to add if both parents and my spouse go to me that's not a one on one anymore that dynamic changes from a one on one catch up with an individual parent to a family dinner to which the spouse (who is a part of that family) is the only one being left out.

Every year or so I have dinner with just my parents and my sibling. Our spouses do not come. It is lovely.

We also have whole extended family events, one-on-one events, and every combination in between. My DH will even go out for a drink with my SIL on occasion. I'm sure it is a great opportunity for them to commiserate about some of the idiosyncrasies of my family of origin!

It works for us.

Once a year is very different than "weekly lunches/dinners".

Everyone has to do what works for them.

But having weekly FRi/Sat night dinner with your parents and siblings without spouses/SO would be a bit much for me simply because it's taking away valuable family time/US time.

PP you are responding to. I'm not sure where you are getting the quote about weekly lunches or dinners. The posters in the chain I was responding to first suggested that it is not OK to ever meet up with an adult child without the spouse unless it was "girls or boys trip" and then that a family dinner with the "original family" was wrong. It isn't.

See but a dinner with just a part and child to me is much different than a dinner with the whole immediate family where your spouse isn't welcome. Like it or not the spouse is also a part of that family. It becomes that way after marriage. The way your family unit looks after your children grow up is going to look different as it should your child is leaving the best and forming their own family. The family is expanding and you should focus on that and welcome that not wish things were the way they used to be.

What about when your kid has kids are you gonna tell your kid to leave their wife and kids at home to have dinner with just their family of origin while simultaneously disrespecting the fact that you are asking your child to leave their immediate family behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster. I'm curious how many of these MILs who are asking their son's wives to stay at home while they ask their their son to come over or do things with them without their son's wife is making any sort of effort to include the DIL into the family in other areas? Or to foster an independent relationship with her as their DIL? Does she ever and the DIL to go out shopping, or to get their nails done, or to grab lunch together?

I think why a lot of people seem to take issues with mother and son spending alone time together without their wife is because most men are gonna want their wives included and plus there is a very very fine line between wanting time alone with your son and the mothers that request this not being able to accept that their son's are married and they are no longer the #1 woman in their son's life so they are trying to subconsciously shit out the wife/their DIL or they are unable to cut the apron strings from their adult sons.

shut out*

OMG PEOPLE. I need to stop reading and replying because none of you are reading the thread but I said I’d be fine if he didn’t go and wanted to stay home with her! And also that I would invite her! You all. Seriously. You want so badly for me to be a monster.

Also this is all ridiculous stereotyping of moms and sons. Would you say the same and it was switched- daughter and boyfriend? If my son were a daughter, would you ask if I had taken her boyfriend out to get our nails done and that I was trying to take my daughter away from her boyfriend (of less than a year)?

Stop people! Let’s all be nice and realize we’re all just out there trying and some of us make mistakes sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster. I'm curious how many of these MILs who are asking their son's wives to stay at home while they ask their their son to come over or do things with them without their son's wife is making any sort of effort to include the DIL into the family in other areas? Or to foster an independent relationship with her as their DIL? Does she ever and the DIL to go out shopping, or to get their nails done, or to grab lunch together?

I think why a lot of people seem to take issues with mother and son spending alone time together without their wife is because most men are gonna want their wives included and plus there is a very very fine line between wanting time alone with your son and the mothers that request this not being able to accept that their son's are married and they are no longer the #1 woman in their son's life so they are trying to subconsciously shit out the wife/their DIL or they are unable to cut the apron strings from their adult sons.

shut out*

OMG PEOPLE. I need to stop reading and replying because none of you are reading the thread but I said I’d be fine if he didn’t go and wanted to stay home with her! And also that I would invite her! You all. Seriously. You want so badly for me to be a monster.

Also this is all ridiculous stereotyping of moms and sons. Would you say the same and it was switched- daughter and boyfriend? If my son were a daughter, would you ask if I had taken her boyfriend out to get our nails done and that I was trying to take my daughter away from her boyfriend (of less than a year)?

Stop people! Let’s all be nice and realize we’re all just out there trying and some of us make mistakes sometimes.

Mothers of daughters don't place themselves in competition of their daughter's bf or husband.

The fact you felt the need to add in parenthesis that she is a gf of less than a year is very telling of how your view their relationship.

Also I don't get why everyone is harping on the fact that this vacation was in the planning process before gf entered the picture because that doesn't matter the gf is in the picture now so adjustments should be made accordingly and she should be invited. Family circumstances change and new members are added. You would never say to someone who has a baby well that baby wasn't around when the tripped was in the planning stages.

I'm not understanding how the fact they were planning the vacation from before the gf was in the picture is even relevant unless things were already paid for and you couldn't add another person but that doesn't seem to be the case here? So what's the problem with adjusting accordingly? What skin is it off your back to add her? I'm not saying at all you need to pay for her but include her absolutely because I'm sure your son considers her as important as his family and his nuclear family and wouldn't be happy with you at all if you put him in a position to choose between you and her because guess what you will probably lose that battle

[Anonymous]

I want to have good relations with whoever comes into my children's lives hence its better to assume they may stay and not mess up potential future relationship. I think assuming someone as a temporary place holder is disrespectful.

[Anonymous]

simple answer. NOPE. They aren't married. Problem solved

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:simple answer. NOPE. They aren't married. Problem solved

Well then don't be surprised when son declines the offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New poster. I'm curious how many of these MILs who are asking their son's wives to stay at home while they ask their their son to come over or do things with them without their son's wife is making any sort of effort to include the DIL into the family in other areas? Or to foster an independent relationship with her as their DIL? Does she ever and the DIL to go out shopping, or to get their nails done, or to grab lunch together?

I think why a lot of people seem to take issues with mother and son spending alone time together without their wife is because most men are gonna want their wives included and plus there is a very very fine line between wanting time alone with your son and the mothers that request this not being able to accept that their son's are married and they are no longer the #1 woman in their son's life so they are trying to subconsciously shit out the wife/their DIL or they are unable to cut the apron strings from their adult sons.

Nothing you say here is wrong. But it isn't necessarily true that the two go together.

It is entirely possible to want to have independent relationships and one-on-one time with BOTH your child and their partner. My own mother is extremely good at this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not one plane ticket. It’s food out and bigger Ubers and bigger accommodations and additional excursions costs……. Just like you women where don’t want to see your MIL all the time or have her include herself in your family events all the time, we want to spend time with our family/our kids without you as well especially if you are expecting me to pay for your full ride while pushing me out of my sons life.

With that attitude, no doubt your son and his future partner will not want you in their life. Loving parents want to see their kids with their spouses/partners/Significant others, especially on vacation. Only reason a parent should expect to see just their kid (once a partner is involved) is if it's a guys event or a girls only event (ie: dad and son are going to a sporting event just the 2 of them). But if it's both parents, then you invite the couple, not just your kid.

Keep that attitude up and you won't be seeing much of your grandkids either in the future.

Wait, so if I am a 40yo female who routinely goes out to dinner with just my dad about every other month, is that wrong?

Yeah I find it extremely hypocritical when women can have mother/daughter days with their mothers after marriage but if God forbid a mother asks to have dinner or lunch alone with her married son it's all OMG why is she shutting out her son's wife clearly she can't let go.

If mother and daughters can still have their individual relationships in tact after marriage why can't mothers and sons maintain their individual relationships??

Has anyone anywhere suggested that they can’t?

20:57
"With that attitude, no doubt your son and his future partner will not want you in their life. Loving parents want to see their kids with their spouses/partners/Significant others, especially on vacation. Only reason a parent should expect to see just their kid (once a partner is involved) is if it's a guys event or a girls only event (ie: dad and son are going to a sporting event just the 2 of them). But if it's both parents, then you invite the couple, not just your kid."

So it's ok for each parent to have their spouse but their child is expected to include their spouse. Don't tell me what it's all their parents. Because you could say well it's also your DIL/SIL plus your child's spouse.

Now if it's just one parent and child regardless of gender totally different story

I'm the PP from the post directly above. I also wanted to add if both parents and my spouse go to me that's not a one on one anymore that dynamic changes from a one on one catch up with an individual parent to a family dinner to which the spouse (who is a part of that family) is the only one being left out.

Every year or so I have dinner with just my parents and my sibling. Our spouses do not come. It is lovely.

We also have whole extended family events, one-on-one events, and every combination in between. My DH will even go out for a drink with my SIL on occasion. I'm sure it is a great opportunity for them to commiserate about some of the idiosyncrasies of my family of origin!

It works for us.

Once a year is very different than "weekly lunches/dinners".

Everyone has to do what works for them.

But having weekly FRi/Sat night dinner with your parents and siblings without spouses/SO would be a bit much for me simply because it's taking away valuable family time/US time.

PP you are responding to. I'm not sure where you are getting the quote about weekly lunches or dinners. The posters in the chain I was responding to first suggested that it is not OK to ever meet up with an adult child without the spouse unless it was "girls or boys trip" and then that a family dinner with the "original family" was wrong. It isn't.

See but a dinner with just a part and child to me is much different than a dinner with the whole immediate family where your spouse isn't welcome. Like it or not the spouse is also a part of that family. It becomes that way after marriage. The way your family unit looks after your children grow up is going to look different as it should your child is leaving the best and forming their own family. The family is expanding and you should focus on that and welcome that not wish things were the way they used to be.

What about when your kid has kids are you gonna tell your kid to leave their wife and kids at home to have dinner with just their family of origin while simultaneously disrespecting the fact that you are asking your child to leave their immediate family behind.

As I posted earlier- once every year or two I do indeed have dinner with just my sibling and my parents. It is nice and it is nostalgic and nobody has hurt feelings. We ALSO include various combinations of the larger extended family in groups, all together, and one-on-one. This works, and created a nice extended family unit where everybody has real connections to everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster. I'm curious how many of these MILs who are asking their son's wives to stay at home while they ask their their son to come over or do things with them without their son's wife is making any sort of effort to include the DIL into the family in other areas? Or to foster an independent relationship with her as their DIL? Does she ever and the DIL to go out shopping, or to get their nails done, or to grab lunch together?

I think why a lot of people seem to take issues with mother and son spending alone time together without their wife is because most men are gonna want their wives included and plus there is a very very fine line between wanting time alone with your son and the mothers that request this not being able to accept that their son's are married and they are no longer the #1 woman in their son's life so they are trying to subconsciously shit out the wife/their DIL or they are unable to cut the apron strings from their adult sons.

shut out*

OMG PEOPLE. I need to stop reading and replying because none of you are reading the thread but I said I’d be fine if he didn’t go and wanted to stay home with her! And also that I would invite her! You all. Seriously. You want so badly for me to be a monster.

Also this is all ridiculous stereotyping of moms and sons. Would you say the same and it was switched- daughter and boyfriend? If my son were a daughter, would you ask if I had taken her boyfriend out to get our nails done and that I was trying to take my daughter away from her boyfriend (of less than a year)?

Stop people! Let’s all be nice and realize we’re all just out there trying and some of us make mistakes sometimes.

Mothers of daughters don't place themselves in competition of their daughter's bf or husband.

The fact you felt the need to add in parenthesis that she is a gf of less than a year is very telling of how your view their relationship.

Also I don't get why everyone is harping on the fact that this vacation was in the planning process before gf entered the picture because that doesn't matter the gf is in the picture now so adjustments should be made accordingly and she should be invited. Family circumstances change and new members are added. You would never say to someone who has a baby well that baby wasn't around when the tripped was in the planning stages.

I'm not understanding how the fact they were planning the vacation from before the gf was in the picture is even relevant unless things were already paid for and you couldn't add another person but that doesn't seem to be the case here? So what's the problem with adjusting accordingly? What skin is it off your back to add her? I'm not saying at all you need to pay for her but include her absolutely because I'm sure your son considers her as important as his family and his nuclear family and wouldn't be happy with you at all if you put him in a position to choose between you and her because guess what you will probably lose that battle

OP SAID PAGES AGO THAT SHE WOULD INVITE THE PARTNER. SHE WAS ASKING FOR ADVICE, GOT IT, AND ACTED ACCORDINGLY.

[Anonymous]

On a post like this, half of the posters are often talking from their own experiences of how well or worse they were received by their significant other's family and what difference small gestures make.

Other half are MILs wanting to keep their nuclear families close knit and their children's significant others respecting and honoring that.