Question about the homophobia thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

I know that’s what it says I’m your women’s gender studies book. But that is an incorrect, made up definition

That link is from the World Health Organization, I’d say that they have more credibility than an anonymous bigot.

Of course you would. It still means nothing.

Most people would. And just saying it means nothing doesn’t make it so. Back up your claims, cite your sources, or just admit that you’re either a troll or irrational.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

I know that’s what it says I’m your women’s gender studies book. But that is an incorrect, made up definition

That link is from the World Health Organization, I’d say that they have more credibility than an anonymous bigot.

Of course you would. It still means nothing.

Most people would. And just saying it means nothing doesn’t make it so. Back up your claims, cite your sources, or just admit that you’re either a troll or irrational.

I wouldn’t rule out both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. There is some deep and profound sexism at play in what medical care transwomen have access to under insurance that cis women do not, and it is okay to acknowledge that.

The answer to discrimination is to lift everyone up to the same level so everyone has access, not push people down to the same level so no one has access. If you feel like women have been treated unfairly by the medical community until trans women came along, and then only the small group of women who were assigned male at birth are treated fairly and women who were assigned female at birth are still being treated unfairly by the medical community, vote for politicians who want to expand healthcare rather than limit women’s access to it. But seriously, stop trying to drag people down. That’s not winning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. There is some deep and profound sexism at play in what medical care transwomen have access to under insurance that cis women do not, and it is okay to acknowledge that.

The answer to discrimination is to lift everyone up to the same level so everyone has access, not push people down to the same level so no one has access. If you feel like women have been treated unfairly by the medical community until trans women came along, and then only the small group of women who were assigned male at birth are treated fairly and women who were assigned female at birth are still being treated unfairly by the medical community, vote for politicians who want to expand healthcare rather than limit women’s access to it. But seriously, stop trying to drag people down. That’s not winning.

Pointing out rampant sexism in medical treatment is not “trying to drag people down.” In fact, what is profoundly sexist is telling people who are observing the truth about how women are treated by the medical establishment versus how transwomen are treated that they are “dragging people down.”

Question for you: do you have the same response to the Black women who courageously fought to have the absolutely appalling racism in medicine surfaced? Did you give them a similarly glib response? Did you tell them that by telling the truth about racism in medicine, they were dragging other groups of people down? Did you tell them that the answer was to vote for your preferred political party, and strongly hint that they should just shut up?

Much of the discourse on trans rights translates directly as “woman, shut up.” This is no different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

So my sincere question is - if gender is defined by norms, behaviors and roles, why does a transgender male need to have his breasts removed? They are merely a biological part of their anatomy. It seems like that makes a person transsex- they want the biological anatomy of the sex they identify with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What happens when you’re wrong? What happens when it turns out a teenage girl was suffering typical teenage girl angst, and she was given a mastectomy that removed her breasts and cross-sex hormones that permanently deepened her voice and gave her facial hair?

What happens when you’re wrong and a young man with internalized homophobia has his penis and testicles removed and later realized it was a mistake? He’s been castrated and regrets it.

What do you say to them then?

Did anyone answer this?

Plenty of people detransition, and from what I see, they aren’t embraced by the trans community. That’s concerning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens when you’re wrong? What happens when it turns out a teenage girl was suffering typical teenage girl angst, and she was given a mastectomy that removed her breasts and cross-sex hormones that permanently deepened her voice and gave her facial hair?

What happens when you’re wrong and a young man with internalized homophobia has his penis and testicles removed and later realized it was a mistake? He’s been castrated and regrets it.

What do you say to them then?

Did anyone answer this?

Plenty of people detransition, and from what I see, they aren’t embraced by the trans community. That’s concerning.

Can you cite some sources that plenty of people detransition? What is plenty in this case?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens when you’re wrong? What happens when it turns out a teenage girl was suffering typical teenage girl angst, and she was given a mastectomy that removed her breasts and cross-sex hormones that permanently deepened her voice and gave her facial hair?

What happens when you’re wrong and a young man with internalized homophobia has his penis and testicles removed and later realized it was a mistake? He’s been castrated and regrets it.

What do you say to them then?

Did anyone answer this?

Plenty of people detransition, and from what I see, they aren’t embraced by the trans community. That’s concerning.

Can you cite some sources that plenty of people detransition? What is plenty in this case?

I’m not the PP but given how badly detransitioners are treated by the trans community, does it even matter how many there are? Can we agree that the social ostracism and threats of violence they get when detransitioners speak their truth is unacceptable regardless of how many there are? Their stories are horrific and heartbreaking, as sad as that of trans adults cut off by their families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens when you’re wrong? What happens when it turns out a teenage girl was suffering typical teenage girl angst, and she was given a mastectomy that removed her breasts and cross-sex hormones that permanently deepened her voice and gave her facial hair?

What happens when you’re wrong and a young man with internalized homophobia has his penis and testicles removed and later realized it was a mistake? He’s been castrated and regrets it.

What do you say to them then?

Did anyone answer this?

Plenty of people detransition, and from what I see, they aren’t embraced by the trans community. That’s concerning.

Can you cite some sources that plenty of people detransition? What is plenty in this case?

I’m not the PP but given how badly detransitioners are treated by the trans community, does it even matter how many there are? Can we agree that the social ostracism and threats of violence they get when detransitioners speak their truth is unacceptable regardless of how many there are? Their stories are horrific and heartbreaking, as sad as that of trans adults cut off by their families.

AKA not that many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens when you’re wrong? What happens when it turns out a teenage girl was suffering typical teenage girl angst, and she was given a mastectomy that removed her breasts and cross-sex hormones that permanently deepened her voice and gave her facial hair?

What happens when you’re wrong and a young man with internalized homophobia has his penis and testicles removed and later realized it was a mistake? He’s been castrated and regrets it.

What do you say to them then?

Did anyone answer this?

Plenty of people detransition, and from what I see, they aren’t embraced by the trans community. That’s concerning.

Can you cite some sources that plenty of people detransition? What is plenty in this case?

There are plenty of people with detrans stories on r/detrans.

Also, there are a few people who were public about their detransition and the resultant negative reaction from trans activists.

I just don’t understand why detransitioners are looked at so negatively by activists. TBH, that’s exactly what makes the trans community look like a cult.

All of that said, the volume of detransitioners isn’t the point. The point is that they are dumped on and criticized once they leave the trans community. Why?


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/01/detransition-transgender-nonbinary-gender-affirming-care/672745/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens when you’re wrong? What happens when it turns out a teenage girl was suffering typical teenage girl angst, and she was given a mastectomy that removed her breasts and cross-sex hormones that permanently deepened her voice and gave her facial hair?

What happens when you’re wrong and a young man with internalized homophobia has his penis and testicles removed and later realized it was a mistake? He’s been castrated and regrets it.

What do you say to them then?

Did anyone answer this?

Plenty of people detransition, and from what I see, they aren’t embraced by the trans community. That’s concerning.

Can you cite some sources that plenty of people detransition? What is plenty in this case?

I’m not the PP but given how badly detransitioners are treated by the trans community, does it even matter how many there are? Can we agree that the social ostracism and threats of violence they get when detransitioners speak their truth is unacceptable regardless of how many there are? Their stories are horrific and heartbreaking, as sad as that of trans adults cut off by their families.

AKA not that many.

Is that a reasonable response to keeping trans people out of sex-based sports and out of women’s bathrooms? There aren’t that many, so…..who cares?

The number doesn’t matter. Why are the mistreated by trans activists?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

So my sincere question is - if gender is defined by norms, behaviors and roles, why does a transgender male need to have his breasts removed? They are merely a biological part of their anatomy. It seems like that makes a person transsex- they want the biological anatomy of the sex they identify with.

Some try to argue that gender identity is different from biological sex. But the "trans women and women" refrain sounds like the opposite - it's merging the two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens when you’re wrong? What happens when it turns out a teenage girl was suffering typical teenage girl angst, and she was given a mastectomy that removed her breasts and cross-sex hormones that permanently deepened her voice and gave her facial hair?

What happens when you’re wrong and a young man with internalized homophobia has his penis and testicles removed and later realized it was a mistake? He’s been castrated and regrets it.

What do you say to them then?

Did anyone answer this?

Plenty of people detransition, and from what I see, they aren’t embraced by the trans community. That’s concerning.

Can you cite some sources that plenty of people detransition? What is plenty in this case?

I’m not the PP but given how badly detransitioners are treated by the trans community, does it even matter how many there are? Can we agree that the social ostracism and threats of violence they get when detransitioners speak their truth is unacceptable regardless of how many there are? Their stories are horrific and heartbreaking, as sad as that of trans adults cut off by their families.

AKA not that many.

Is that a reasonable response to keeping trans people out of sex-based sports and out of women’s bathrooms? There aren’t that many, so…..who cares?

The number doesn’t matter. Why are the mistreated by trans activists?

I have no idea.

If a transgender person has gone though all of the steps prescribed by their doctors as necessary to transition then it’s really their decision to make. Not yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens when you’re wrong? What happens when it turns out a teenage girl was suffering typical teenage girl angst, and she was given a mastectomy that removed her breasts and cross-sex hormones that permanently deepened her voice and gave her facial hair?

What happens when you’re wrong and a young man with internalized homophobia has his penis and testicles removed and later realized it was a mistake? He’s been castrated and regrets it.

What do you say to them then?

Did anyone answer this?

Plenty of people detransition, and from what I see, they aren’t embraced by the trans community. That’s concerning.

Can you cite some sources that plenty of people detransition? What is plenty in this case?

There are plenty of people with detrans stories on r/detrans.

Also, there are a few people who were public about their detransition and the resultant negative reaction from trans activists.

I just don’t understand why detransitioners are looked at so negatively by activists. TBH, that’s exactly what makes the trans community look like a cult.

All of that said, the volume of detransitioners isn’t the point. The point is that they are dumped on and criticized once they leave the trans community. Why?


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/01/detransition-transgender-nonbinary-gender-affirming-care/672745/

Why? I think it’s because they are putting out messaging that stokes transphobia in an already transphobic society. Because when you have politicians creating laws trying to limit healthcare options for a group of people, trying to make it illegal for them to read to children, or for books mentioning that they exist not to be allowed in schools, having someone come out and talk about how they were tricked into being part of that group brings out more negativity toward that group. It makes trans people less safe.

There’s no way to confirm or disprove these stories either. It’s not like the doctors can tell their side without hipaa violations. Someone is suing my child’s endocrinologist and the experience they tell about is the exact opposite of ours. I’m not saying they’re lying, but it seems a little strange to me. I’m not going to try to seek revenge on that person for detransitioning. I don’t care how they express their gender or how they identify. I hope they figure it out and find a way to be happy. But I’ll never support someone who tries to reduce my child’s access to healthcare, whether it’s supporting politicians who want to legislate that, trying to sue doctors and drive them out of practice, or trying to convince people their experience with gender identity is universal and it shouldn’t be a personal decision between patients and doctors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens when you’re wrong? What happens when it turns out a teenage girl was suffering typical teenage girl angst, and she was given a mastectomy that removed her breasts and cross-sex hormones that permanently deepened her voice and gave her facial hair?

What happens when you’re wrong and a young man with internalized homophobia has his penis and testicles removed and later realized it was a mistake? He’s been castrated and regrets it.

What do you say to them then?

Did anyone answer this?

Plenty of people detransition, and from what I see, they aren’t embraced by the trans community. That’s concerning.

Why should detrans folks be embraced by the trans community? That’s like asking why your old church friends don’t want to hang out any more after you start loudly declaiming your atheism and trying to convince them God isn’t real every time they interact with you. The church community is for people who are part of the church. The trans community is for people who are trans. Which detrans people are quick to tell you they are not.