Hate having kids

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry OP. I’d encourage you to talk to a therapist just to come up with strategies. Our US system of child rearing doesn’t help. In many other cultures, having multiple households and/or generations living together helps alleviate the stress. Many of my cousins loved basically nannying their nieces and nephews. We are so nuclear-family oriented that there can be drawbacks (obviously varies based on individuals and the family dynamics). Wealthy people have the resources for endless sitters, boarding schools, etc. Thats just a different reality.

Parenting can be a slog sometimes but hopefully you love your children and can hold on to the positives.

What positives? I really feel like there literally are none.

Do you love your children?

Sometimes. Not worth it.

I'm getting the sense from your responses that you view love as transactional. But most people would say that relationships are transformational . . . the act of loving makes us happier (because creating joy in others creates joy in ourselves -- we are all connected). It's not just about receiving love.

It sounds like the part of you capable of caring for others for their own sake was never developed or hidden away to protect yourself in childhood.

DP.. I figured out what OP's problem is... OP is a narcissist.

How can you only love your kids "sometimes", and think they are not worth that love?

It means you only love them when it's probably easy to love them, and even that moment is not worth having kids.

You don't really love them, which is obviously incredibly sad.

Your problem is that you are a narcissist. It's all about *you*.

You are correct that you should never have had any children. Narcissists really shouldn't. But, it's too late now, and I would suggest you get therapy for your narcissim. I 100% think that your kids will need therapy in the future for having a narcissistic parent.

And I'm a PP who stated that I don't really enjoy all aspects of parenting, and never thought about having kids myself. I firmly believe women can be happy without kids, but OP's issue is that she is a narcissist, not that she doesn't like kids. OP may even be anti-social. I know several women who don't like kids, but love theirs unconditionally, including myself. But, narcissists cannot love anyone but themselves, and even the love they *sometimes* have is conditional, and as a PP noted, transactional.

I don't think OP or her grandmothers were depressed. I think they had a mental condition.

I am not a narcissist. My dad is. You have no idea.

I don't like kids and have said that. I'm not antisocial and I've been in love. I don't like large groups but I like close relationships. I know far more about narcs than you.

Narcissism usually develops as a result of childhood trauma and is more likely when one of the parents, or both, are narcissistic or have narcissistic traits. The fact that you think your dad was one is reason enough to go to therapy to explore yourself. Ask me how I know... so yea... please go and get yourself help.

newsflash: I have been to therapy. I am not a narc. I have been told by more than one therapist I don't need to be there and I know what to do. It is not helpful. There is nothing a therapist says or does that I do not know already. I've been down that road. It's not useful or helpful. This is just my life. That is it. I will likely not enjoy kids any more as adults. No one really seems to have an answer about that and that was the point of the post.

What is it that you have to do?

Newsflash: a ton of people have had bad sh1t happen to them that changed their trajectory: from deaths, to divorce, unwanted pregnancy (with or without rape), and people learn to deal with it or seek therapy to help deal with it.

Your attitude is deafetist at best, and miserable at worst.

You won't enjoy your adult kids because you are a miserable person. You won't care if your kids don't visit you, call you on your bday, xmas, spend Thanksgiving with you. Is that what you want to hear? Or are you expecting your kids to be more interesting when they become adults, and only then can you really feel some kind of connection to them? I think this is what Trump was like as a parent. He had zero to do with his kids until they turned 18. And we all know Trump is a narcissist.

I don’t like holidays. It would be sheer relief to opt out of all of them forever. No, I am not expecting kids to be more interesting as adults—I am expecting to not have it be so annoying to have them. I do not like being around kids. The worst is a group of kids.

OK, the problem is you. You are anti-social. You may think you are not, but you are. I'm also an introvert, and I find socializing to be exhausting. I can only do it in small doses, but your aversion to anything social - holidays, kids even maybe adult kids, saying you would be glad if all holidays are gone -- makes you sound anti-social, and definitely miserable.

The only people who hate Xmas are miserable people.

Will you enjoy your adult kids more? The answer is "no" because wherever you go, there you are.

The problem is "you'. Every single person here has told you that you need therapy, but you think you don't.. you say you've been told that you don't need more therapy, the problem isn't you. I agree with a PP who said you probably heard what you wanted to hear. You harbor deep anger and resentment. Any person who harbors that much anger and resentment needs therapy.

End thread. You don't need to respond. You got your answer.

Not anti social. I have friends. I don't like kids or family events (family events include holidays...I don't like them...too stressful).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For somebody stating such overtly abnormal thoughts and feelings, you are awfully confident that you couldn't benefit at all from therapy or have any mental health needs yourself.

Often, it is the people with the most to learn who think they have the least. Meanwhile, well-adjusted people are open to finding even more and better ways to be a healthy and whole person. Your knee-jerk rejection of all suggestions of practical help is just another symptom of your serious and deep problems.

I had a really loving upbringing without any real trauma, but sometimes in life I've still hit difficult times and benefited from therapy. For instance, I needed to grieve the sudden loss of a parent, and another time I discovered my spouse was having an affair. Grief at loss and betrayal is a very normal and natural thing -- it doesn't mean that there was anything wrong with me -- but I still benefited from dedicating that hour every week to working through my feelings with a professional. And again, despite my history of no known mental illness or FOO issues, I've never had a chorus of therapists telling me, "Oh you? No way should you do therapy!" I wonder if you heard what you wanted to hear in what they said (if for no other reason than therapists would be out of business if they went around telling people with trauma as deep as yours that they are fine and should just not bother with therapy).


The fact that you didn't want children and the fact that you haven't bonded with your children are two separate issues. The former is fairly common, as you assert. The latter is not. As I mentioned in another comment, we are biologically designed to bond with our children. Our survival is literally at stake. Your genetic history and upbringing combined to cause you great difficulty in this area. In your rational mind, you aware that your children have needs that you need to provide. Emotional closeness is one of those needs. If you still won't go to therapy, I suggest reading up on healthy attachment.

I have been an editor of a mental health journal. I assure you I do not need to read anything. I’ve read it all. I know a ton about mental health issues. People can really stop posting the therapy stuff. I know it all.

OK, now I think this is a troll post, or OP is truly a narcissist. No one "knows it all", least of all therapists.

Have you ever heard the saying, "Physician, heal thyself"? There's a reason for that saying.

My point is that I have read a ton of mental health literature. I don't need reading recommendations. I've read it all before.

Sometimes I revisit things I've read before and learn something entirely new.

Again, it makes no sense to be so confident that you have no room for improvement when you are barely registering on the parental affection meter.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For somebody stating such overtly abnormal thoughts and feelings, you are awfully confident that you couldn't benefit at all from therapy or have any mental health needs yourself.

Often, it is the people with the most to learn who think they have the least. Meanwhile, well-adjusted people are open to finding even more and better ways to be a healthy and whole person. Your knee-jerk rejection of all suggestions of practical help is just another symptom of your serious and deep problems.

I had a really loving upbringing without any real trauma, but sometimes in life I've still hit difficult times and benefited from therapy. For instance, I needed to grieve the sudden loss of a parent, and another time I discovered my spouse was having an affair. Grief at loss and betrayal is a very normal and natural thing -- it doesn't mean that there was anything wrong with me -- but I still benefited from dedicating that hour every week to working through my feelings with a professional. And again, despite my history of no known mental illness or FOO issues, I've never had a chorus of therapists telling me, "Oh you? No way should you do therapy!" I wonder if you heard what you wanted to hear in what they said (if for no other reason than therapists would be out of business if they went around telling people with trauma as deep as yours that they are fine and should just not bother with therapy).


The fact that you didn't want children and the fact that you haven't bonded with your children are two separate issues. The former is fairly common, as you assert. The latter is not. As I mentioned in another comment, we are biologically designed to bond with our children. Our survival is literally at stake. Your genetic history and upbringing combined to cause you great difficulty in this area. In your rational mind, you aware that your children have needs that you need to provide. Emotional closeness is one of those needs. If you still won't go to therapy, I suggest reading up on healthy attachment.

I have been an editor of a mental health journal. I assure you I do not need to read anything. I’ve read it all. I know a ton about mental health issues. People can really stop posting the therapy stuff. I know it all.

OK, now I think this is a troll post, or OP is truly a narcissist. No one "knows it all", least of all therapists.

Have you ever heard the saying, "Physician, heal thyself"? There's a reason for that saying.

My point is that I have read a ton of mental health literature. I don't need reading recommendations. I've read it all before.

Sometimes I revisit things I've read before and learn something entirely new.

Again, it makes no sense to be so confident that you have no room for improvement when you are barely registering on the parental affection meter.

I have not discussed parental affection or lack thereof. Stop making stuff up.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:what are you hoping to get out of this thread, OP? You have an answer for every poster that makes it seem as though you're not interested in what anyone has to say...why post then?

I want to hear from people with adult children who did not find the “joy of parenting” with kids. If you are not a person with adult children who fits his description, your comments are unwanted, inappropriate, judgmental, and a waste of time. I don’t need your advice or judgment or armchair therapy, which is ridiculous. I’m looking for perspectives of people with adult children and if they feel better or not when their children are adults. I am not interested in perspectives of people who are judgmental who don’t understand my circumstances at all and who are completely overwhelmed with the joy of parenting.

you are quite thickheaded.

DP.. plenty of people on here have said that they didn't/don't enjoy parenting that much. Neither I nor my DH "are completely overwhelmed with the joy of parenting". But, I have never felt that I love my children only "sometimes".

Once again: your issue is that you feel deep resentment and anger towards your kids for having them be foisted on you. If you've "read it all" like you claim, then you should know that such deep anger and resentment should not be left to fester for 10 years.

You are either really thickheaded or a troll.

Again, my kids don't know. The acting is probably why I am so annoyed more than anything.

OP, you can't possibly be sure of that. Many people on this thread have told you that they were in your kids' position and they absolutely knew. Kids pick up on a lot. It's cruel to your kids that you are spending their childhoods resenting them instead of dealing with your issues, which are in no way their fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP.

You are my mom. She had an arranged marriage and had 4 kids and spent our entire childhood (and adulthood) that it wasn't her choice, she didn't want to be a mother, if she could go back in time she would not have had kids etc.

I get it. I get your pain and I get the feeling of helplessness and endlessness of parenthood.

But please, please, please know that your kids know how you feel about them. They feel your resentment. And its going to haunt them for the rest of their lives. They are going to have a hard time with their own parenthood and those hard days will be much harder when they start repeating the same things they heard you say growing up. Ask me how I know.

Do you really want your suffering now to be all for naught? Or are you setting out to be one of those old ladies with "good for nothing kids who never visit."

I don't think OP really cares how her kids turn out.

My background is very similar to yours. I know my mother didn't want me. It was obvious. I'm willing to bet that she experienced marital rape herself. She also comes from a poor, immigrant, background where women had zero choices.

I feel badly for her, knowing what she has had to endure. She's 80 now The stress, resentment and anger that's built up in her life has impacted her health. She now has dementia and a host of other physical ailments.

Fortunately for her, we all take care of her. I am not so sure what will happen to OP when she's old.

I try really hard to not be like my mother, but I do see cracks. I probably could've used some therapy growing up. Hopefully, my kids will break that cycle especially since women now a days have more choices, at least in the blue states where abortion is still legal.

[Anonymous]

DCUM has come out in a refreshing judgment-low way to offer OP sympathy and pragmatic suggestions. OP has done nothing but trash responses. OP may not be a troll in the literal sense of the terms, but it time for us to stop rewarding her with top billing in "Recent Topics".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP.

You are my mom. She had an arranged marriage and had 4 kids and spent our entire childhood (and adulthood) that it wasn't her choice, she didn't want to be a mother, if she could go back in time she would not have had kids etc.

I get it. I get your pain and I get the feeling of helplessness and endlessness of parenthood.

But please, please, please know that your kids know how you feel about them. They feel your resentment. And its going to haunt them for the rest of their lives. They are going to have a hard time with their own parenthood and those hard days will be much harder when they start repeating the same things they heard you say growing up. Ask me how I know.

Do you really want your suffering now to be all for naught? Or are you setting out to be one of those old ladies with "good for nothing kids who never visit."

I don't think OP really cares how her kids turn out.

My background is very similar to yours. I know my mother didn't want me. It was obvious. I'm willing to bet that she experienced marital rape herself. She also comes from a poor, immigrant, background where women had zero choices.

I feel badly for her, knowing what she has had to endure. She's 80 now The stress, resentment and anger that's built up in her life has impacted her health. She now has dementia and a host of other physical ailments.

Fortunately for her, we all take care of her. I am not so sure what will happen to OP when she's old.

I try really hard to not be like my mother, but I do see cracks. I probably could've used some therapy growing up. Hopefully, my kids will break that cycle especially since women now a days have more choices, at least in the blue states where abortion is still legal.

Or she does care, but the thought that she's failing them is so triggering that she cannot contemplate it. She lacks the ability to self-soothe and course-correct so she tries to deny reality instead.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry OP. I’d encourage you to talk to a therapist just to come up with strategies. Our US system of child rearing doesn’t help. In many other cultures, having multiple households and/or generations living together helps alleviate the stress. Many of my cousins loved basically nannying their nieces and nephews. We are so nuclear-family oriented that there can be drawbacks (obviously varies based on individuals and the family dynamics). Wealthy people have the resources for endless sitters, boarding schools, etc. Thats just a different reality.

Parenting can be a slog sometimes but hopefully you love your children and can hold on to the positives.

What positives? I really feel like there literally are none.

Do you love your children?

Sometimes. Not worth it.

I'm getting the sense from your responses that you view love as transactional. But most people would say that relationships are transformational . . . the act of loving makes us happier (because creating joy in others creates joy in ourselves -- we are all connected). It's not just about receiving love.

It sounds like the part of you capable of caring for others for their own sake was never developed or hidden away to protect yourself in childhood.

DP.. I figured out what OP's problem is... OP is a narcissist.

How can you only love your kids "sometimes", and think they are not worth that love?

It means you only love them when it's probably easy to love them, and even that moment is not worth having kids.

You don't really love them, which is obviously incredibly sad.

Your problem is that you are a narcissist. It's all about *you*.

You are correct that you should never have had any children. Narcissists really shouldn't. But, it's too late now, and I would suggest you get therapy for your narcissim. I 100% think that your kids will need therapy in the future for having a narcissistic parent.

And I'm a PP who stated that I don't really enjoy all aspects of parenting, and never thought about having kids myself. I firmly believe women can be happy without kids, but OP's issue is that she is a narcissist, not that she doesn't like kids. OP may even be anti-social. I know several women who don't like kids, but love theirs unconditionally, including myself. But, narcissists cannot love anyone but themselves, and even the love they *sometimes* have is conditional, and as a PP noted, transactional.

I don't think OP or her grandmothers were depressed. I think they had a mental condition.

I am not a narcissist. My dad is. You have no idea.

I don't like kids and have said that. I'm not antisocial and I've been in love. I don't like large groups but I like close relationships. I know far more about narcs than you.

Narcissism usually develops as a result of childhood trauma and is more likely when one of the parents, or both, are narcissistic or have narcissistic traits. The fact that you think your dad was one is reason enough to go to therapy to explore yourself. Ask me how I know... so yea... please go and get yourself help.

newsflash: I have been to therapy. I am not a narc. I have been told by more than one therapist I don't need to be there and I know what to do. It is not helpful. There is nothing a therapist says or does that I do not know already. I've been down that road. It's not useful or helpful. This is just my life. That is it. I will likely not enjoy kids any more as adults. No one really seems to have an answer about that and that was the point of the post.

What is it that you have to do?

Newsflash: a ton of people have had bad sh1t happen to them that changed their trajectory: from deaths, to divorce, unwanted pregnancy (with or without rape), and people learn to deal with it or seek therapy to help deal with it.

Your attitude is deafetist at best, and miserable at worst.

You won't enjoy your adult kids because you are a miserable person. You won't care if your kids don't visit you, call you on your bday, xmas, spend Thanksgiving with you. Is that what you want to hear? Or are you expecting your kids to be more interesting when they become adults, and only then can you really feel some kind of connection to them? I think this is what Trump was like as a parent. He had zero to do with his kids until they turned 18. And we all know Trump is a narcissist.

I don’t like holidays. It would be sheer relief to opt out of all of them forever. No, I am not expecting kids to be more interesting as adults—I am expecting to not have it be so annoying to have them. I do not like being around kids. The worst is a group of kids.

OK, the problem is you. You are anti-social. You may think you are not, but you are. I'm also an introvert, and I find socializing to be exhausting. I can only do it in small doses, but your aversion to anything social - holidays, kids even maybe adult kids, saying you would be glad if all holidays are gone -- makes you sound anti-social, and definitely miserable.

The only people who hate Xmas are miserable people.

Will you enjoy your adult kids more? The answer is "no" because wherever you go, there you are.

The problem is "you'. Every single person here has told you that you need therapy, but you think you don't.. you say you've been told that you don't need more therapy, the problem isn't you. I agree with a PP who said you probably heard what you wanted to hear. You harbor deep anger and resentment. Any person who harbors that much anger and resentment needs therapy.

End thread. You don't need to respond. You got your answer.

Not anti social. I have friends. I don't like kids or family events (family events include holidays...I don't like them...too stressful).

Anti-social people can have friends, just not many, nor do they meet up often or in large gatherings.

You had a f*up family life growing up. That's why you hate family events. That cycle will continue with your kids.

Every person who has grown up in a f*up family has issues. It's 100% clear to everyone but you that you, too, have deep issues.

[Anonymous]

Okay. There was no reason to post. People obviously do not have adult children who are responding. Your responses are judgmental and making stuff up. Stop responding. If you have adult children, feel free to respond. Otherwise, there is no reason for you to keep piling on with assumptions about me or my kids. They are fine. I'm not worried. I worry about my happiness--not theirs. If you don't have the perspective of being an adult with children who did not find raising kids joyful, there is literally no reason for you to comment except to make yourself feel better about yourself and to put me down and my assumptions about me. My kids are happy. I'm not. I can say this anonymously. Stop projecting it is something worse. I only was seeking feedback from people with adult children who have wisdom to offer. If you have kids at home, you don't fit the criteria for even responding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCUM has come out in a refreshing judgment-low way to offer OP sympathy and pragmatic suggestions. OP has done nothing but trash responses. OP may not be a troll in the literal sense of the terms, but it time for us to stop rewarding her with top billing in "Recent Topics".

I feel like it is not for OP's benefit that I feel compelled to keep responding, but for her kids. I feel so bad for them, they will of course know. Children are much smarter than most people believe, and internalize their feelings in a way that gives parents a very false sense of security about their pain.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP has posted many, many times. She is completely lacking in insight. Not quite sure what she’s hoping to get from these repeated threads. Just letting everyone know so they can stop wasting their time. OP, just give your kids to their dad already.

They are not comfortable with him. I am the preferred parent. He did 0 for the first 6 years of parenting. Literally ZERO.

That still would not solve the problem. I've already wasted 10 years into this nonsense and I can't fix the trajectory. Him having the kids only would not improve anything and in fact, make it worse.

I wanted to know if people could enjoy kids as adults if they did not like parenting. So far, no one really has that answer. That was the point of the post. I know my life sucks so I don't need more piling on. Be fortunate that you did not have circumstances take your life in a direction you absolutely did not want and then have to deal with the lifelong consequences. There is no "coping" or "therapy" that can fix that. It is what it is and I just have to deal with it.

No one has answered because there are virtually no people who get to year 10 of parenting that feel like you feel. There are people who don't like certain parts of parenting, there are people who feel resentment because they have kids but they still love their kids, but what YOU describe points to a person in a mental health crisis.

People are saying that for YOU, with these problems and your outlook on life, it will not get better, because life is not just about things magically getting better. You have to make them better.

It will get better when your kids get older and more independent and drift from you. And you can become a distant mother and not interact with grandchildren if you don't want.

I'm going to give you a different piece of advice OP, since you clearly aren't really interested in fixing yourself. Get your kids in therapy, and explain these thoughts you have to their therapists. So your children can figure out how to grapple with having a parent like you in a healthy way. I grew up in a very privileged home, my childhood was 'so much better than my parents' and yet, all the money in the world can't buy you emotionally stable parents. And unfortunately kids need that a lot more than they need whatever it is you're buying for them.

So no, your situation will not improve but again, it is because you seem committed to doing literally nothing to improve it.

I am not having a mental health crisis. This is how I feel every day. I survive. That is it. It's drudgery but it is what it is. A mental health crisis is sudden and drastic and an overwhelming feeling of depression. I am not depressed. I was just hoping someone would say, "yeah, I did not particularly like parenting but I enjoy having adult kids."

But you are waaaaay beyond "did not particularly like parenting." The experiences of people who love their children but weren't super domestic or didn't care for soccer practice are not going to be informative for you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCUM has come out in a refreshing judgment-low way to offer OP sympathy and pragmatic suggestions. OP has done nothing but trash responses. OP may not be a troll in the literal sense of the terms, but it time for us to stop rewarding her with top billing in "Recent Topics".

absolutely not low judgment and unnecessary preaching, which was not asked for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay. There was no reason to post. People obviously do not have adult children who are responding. Your responses are judgmental and making stuff up. Stop responding. If you have adult children, feel free to respond. Otherwise, there is no reason for you to keep piling on with assumptions about me or my kids. They are fine. I'm not worried. I worry about my happiness--not theirs. If you don't have the perspective of being an adult with children who did not find raising kids joyful, there is literally no reason for you to comment except to make yourself feel better about yourself and to put me down and my assumptions about me. My kids are happy. I'm not. I can say this anonymously. Stop projecting it is something worse. I only was seeking feedback from people with adult children who have wisdom to offer. If you have kids at home, you don't fit the criteria for even responding.

No matter how much you try to convince yourself otherwise, they are inextricably linked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM has come out in a refreshing judgment-low way to offer OP sympathy and pragmatic suggestions. OP has done nothing but trash responses. OP may not be a troll in the literal sense of the terms, but it time for us to stop rewarding her with top billing in "Recent Topics".

I feel like it is not for OP's benefit that I feel compelled to keep responding, but for her kids. I feel so bad for them, they will of course know. Children are much smarter than most people believe, and internalize their feelings in a way that gives parents a very false sense of security about their pain.

Eff off. My kids are absolutely fine. I feel bad for your kids who have a self-absorbed parent who thinks they know everything about other people.

[Anonymous]

OP, you need therapy and medicines. I think you are very depressed.