Sister in law from hell

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think DIL/SILs often gets a bad rap because the brother/son allows them to be blamed by his family for things that he really wants (i.e., way less contact with his family of origin). His wife gets the blame, he gets to shrug it off, and his family thinks he is the golden child and she is a witch. It happens all of the time.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SIL is a professional woman (doctor) who just had a baby that was hospitalized. Pretty traumatic for anyone. It’s her first born and she’s probably back at work. She doesn’t want people handling the baby when she’s not there. She doesn’t want to discuss the hospital issues. She also likes to cook and stay well dressed (as well as work, take care of sick baby, and so on).
But she doesn’t have time for a lot of small talk chat?? OP do you not have kids or a job?

I have a job and 3 kids. What is your point? She her daughter does not have issues, but she got sick and at 2 months in my country they hospitalize the baby. This was in April. At the time she was stressed out and worried as any mother would be, but this is not the case now (at least not worried about her daughter’s health). She has a nanny and is perfectly happy to leave the baby with my brother, what she is not happy with is me visiting without her being present. I wrote this several times already. When she sees my mom or when it happened that we talked through whatsup, nobody can ask anything about the daughter or she gets upset and thinks we are judging her. I can’t ask whether baby is eating, crawling, etc... hence the chit chat... that is what she wants to talk about, not me

Your SIL doesn’t like you which is why she doesn’t want to leave her baby with you. Your SIL is not required to leave her baby alone with you. Give it up. You can’t FORCE your SIL and brother to leave the baby alone with you. You also can’t force them to talk about certain things or engage in online group chats.

Seriously get a life and stop meddling. You should work on your writing skills instead of worrying about your SIL!

Yep probably this. SIL probably doesn’t like you- whether she has a valid reason wont be able to be discerned on this forum.

Regardless she has every right to choose who her child spends time with.

Your brother probably doesn’t like you much either- he just doesn’t want you to be mad at him - but does not mind if you are mad at his wife lol.

Happens all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not adding up. OP admitted that it was when she didn't ask about her sil at all that her sil had it with her. While her baby was in a hospital. I wonder how many times, did this op make her sil feel like she is a tag along. It is telling that OP is upset about never seeing her brother alone, but that sil always used to come along. SIL probably found out that op complained about wanting her brother alone. Most of us that are mature and married usually come as a package, we don't insist on going alone somewhere all the time. I go out with my sister and her dh out all the time, seems odd to exclude him. Sometimes he doesn't feel like going, but he is always invited. Yet, op showed her objection to this here, I find that immature and possessive.

-1 Mature married people are perfectly capable of spending time with their siblings without their spouses tagging along and don't need permission to do so.

And look at her reply above? She asked about SIL through brother, as if SIL is invisible? SIL got the message. Plus, how many times did she see and talk to her brother? Sounds like more than three. Her niece was in a hospital and op couldn't bother to send a text to her SIL? But, now she is texting her. Sounds to me like SIL had enough of being ignored, having demands of sil to enjoy her brother alone... and said, enough is enough. Good for her.

This is NOT what happened!!!! I was writing to both on our family chat until my brother wrote separately to my parents and I to stop contacting SIL because she was stressed out and did not want to make their situation a big deal (his words) so obviously we stop writing to SIL and to the family chat. At this point we are all scared of her reactions so we absoloutely consider her ALL THE TIME.
SIL was (maybe still is) upset that I did not go against my brother’s recommendation and did not write her directly. Also, this was in April. First she did not believe my brother had said that, then even after I showed her his message, she was was still upset and said I should have written to her, but not called her... anyway... this is crazy and if you understood the situation and don’t think this issues are crazy, you are insane too

So you didn't write this:
OP here. I asked about her multiple times in the 3 days they were at the hospital and once home, but to my brother and not to her directly. That was her issue with me. I think it’s crazy and that is why people are not understanding it correctly.
Basically SIL would have liked all conversations to go through her.

[Anonymous]

Your brother needs to grow a pair. She’s not some big bad female using her witchy womanly ways to keep your brother away from you. Your brother can join the what’s app group if he really wants to. He just doesn’t really care.

[Anonymous]

OP - sorry everyone is piling on you. Sounds like a tough situation. SIL is probably insecure and a control freak - toxic combination. Not sure there is much you can do. Your brother has to stand up for himself. How does she even know if he joins the family group chat? Does she go through his phone? That is very creepy. You can turn off notifications on WhatsApp so the messages don’t pop up on the screen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not adding up. OP admitted that it was when she didn't ask about her sil at all that her sil had it with her. While her baby was in a hospital. I wonder how many times, did this op make her sil feel like she is a tag along. It is telling that OP is upset about never seeing her brother alone, but that sil always used to come along. SIL probably found out that op complained about wanting her brother alone. Most of us that are mature and married usually come as a package, we don't insist on going alone somewhere all the time. I go out with my sister and her dh out all the time, seems odd to exclude him. Sometimes he doesn't feel like going, but he is always invited. Yet, op showed her objection to this here, I find that immature and possessive.

-1 Mature married people are perfectly capable of spending time with their siblings without their spouses tagging along and don't need permission to do so.

And look at her reply above? She asked about SIL through brother, as if SIL is invisible? SIL got the message. Plus, how many times did she see and talk to her brother? Sounds like more than three. Her niece was in a hospital and op couldn't bother to send a text to her SIL? But, now she is texting her. Sounds to me like SIL had enough of being ignored, having demands of sil to enjoy her brother alone... and said, enough is enough. Good for her.

This is NOT what happened!!!! I was writing to both on our family chat until my brother wrote separately to my parents and I to stop contacting SIL because she was stressed out and did not want to make their situation a big deal (his words) so obviously we stop writing to SIL and to the family chat. At this point we are all scared of her reactions so we absoloutely consider her ALL THE TIME.
SIL was (maybe still is) upset that I did not go against my brother’s recommendation and did not write her directly. Also, this was in April. First she did not believe my brother had said that, then even after I showed her his message, she was was still upset and said I should have written to her, but not called her... anyway... this is crazy and if you understood the situation and don’t think this issues are crazy, you are insane too

So you didn't write this:
OP here. I asked about her multiple times in the 3 days they were at the hospital and once home, but to my brother and not to her directly. That was her issue with me. I think it’s crazy and that is why people are not understanding it correctly.
Basically SIL would have liked all conversations to go through her.

I am going to explain this one more time and then I won’t anymore.
In April their daughter got sick. She was 2 months old and the pediatrician suggested they take her to the hospital because she was so young. Up until the hospital stay, both my brother and SIL were in our family chat and we were exchanging messages there. Then my brother wrote to both my parents an I to stop writing on the chat at to SIL directly because she was stressed out and did not want to make their situation a big deal (maybe my parents had called or we had texted on the chat... frankly I can’t remember). From that point on, we all stopped writing on the group chat and I only interacted with my brother. I asked about the baby and SIL a lot, was worried and mostly felt bad for them because I know how it feels to be at the hospital with your baby. I did not question my brother’s request. I don’t know SIL as well as he does obviously and maybe she just wanted to focus exclusively on her baby (probably like I would) so I asked about them a lot, but only to my brother. About 2-3 weeks after they came back from the hospital, I find out SIL is very upset with me saying that I disappointed her and that I am not honest when I say I care about their daughter. My jaw dropped and I asked why she would say such things. Her response was that she expected me to ask her directly how she (not her baby) was doing. I then showed her my brother’s message (after she called me a liar because she did not believe me on my word), even then she kept insisting that I was wrong. She also fought with my brother about this a lot I am sure (but maybe she had a reasons with him).

Does that make sense now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - sorry everyone is piling on you. Sounds like a tough situation. SIL is probably insecure and a control freak - toxic combination. Not sure there is much you can do. Your brother has to stand up for himself. How does she even know if he joins the family group chat? Does she go through his phone? That is very creepy. You can turn off notifications on WhatsApp so the messages don’t pop up on the screen

Thanks. She knows and he would not do it without her knowing. He also deletes all our texts because he is afraid she might read them...

[Anonymous]

Difficult to say what is going on here.

It seems obvious to me you have ticked you SIL off somehow. Probably related to something that happened when the baby was in the hospital. Have you asked her if you’ve done something to upset her, and apologized? You may have been insensitive, she may have been over sensitive- but either way being the bigger person is helpful.

Who knows what is really going on in their marriage..the only people who do are (1) your brother and (2) her. It is literally impossible to get a full and accurate picture. Literally impossible. Marital problems are virtually never only one spouses fault, you realize? It takes two. Your brother is almost certainly not providing a completely accurate picture- and it may not even be on purpose- it is just the way people tend to describe personal issues from their own viewpoint.

Your brother may be a wonderful guy, but he sounds immature. He should not be discussing his marital problems with the extended family- and certainly not with such detail. This is never a good idea and your post is 100% proof of WHY. Whatever else is going on- I feel truly very sorry for your SIL about this issue. Her DH is breaking her trust and airing their dirty laundry to the extended family. I am not at all surprised she is putting distance between them and you. In this regard it is YOUR BROTHER’S fault but she may be blaming you..when it is not your fault he has such a big mouth. This is one of of my reasons discussing marital issues with extended family is general high recommended against.

I’d stop discussing your brothers marriage with him. There is absolutely zero possibility that you are helping anyone by doing this. Tell him you love him and his family and hope things improve and encourage counseling. Repeat each time. Do not listen to these details or encourage him telling you these things. Also I would discourage your mother from gossiping and complaining about this and certainly don’t gossip with her either.

The fault may very well not lie with your family- it seems to be marital issues. Be the bigger and more mature person, avoid gossiping and discussing this anymore and let them work this out. Don’t encourage negative talk about SIL either from brother or your mom. Maybe they will work it out maybe they won’t- but do the right thing.

[Anonymous]

OP: she doesn’t like you. And she wants you to know it. Sorry. It’s very disappointing. Maybe later.

[Anonymous]

OP, I keep noticing that you keep referring to SIL loving to cook, and her family loving to cook (in your OP, and in your post at 1219 today).

This just strikes me as such a weird thing to focus on as a difference. Is it cultural that this would normally be done by household help, or someone else?

You also seem over invested in her hair care. Who cares if she gets a blowout weekly. What does that have to do with your mother (and yourself) being more frumpy. Are you insecure about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I keep noticing that you keep referring to SIL loving to cook, and her family loving to cook (in your OP, and in your post at 1219 today).

This just strikes me as such a weird thing to focus on as a difference. Is it cultural that this would normally be done by household help, or someone else?

You also seem over invested in her hair care. Who cares if she gets a blowout weekly. What does that have to do with your mother (and yourself) being more frumpy. Are you insecure about it?

No, I am just noticing nice things about her that are different from us. My brother loves that she cooks and used to be something he talked about a lot and he loves I think that she always looks good because he often tells me I should put more effort in my looks.
I mean we are different people with different personalities, but have very similar background and we grew up with similar family dynamics... that’s all...
I don’t like to cook and I am not very good (and MYbe don’t care enough) at dressing up on Saturday and Sunday or on vacation. I do make up only for special occasions and my hair is always in a bun. I am not criticizing at all SIL... maybe the opposite

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Difficult to say what is going on here.

It seems obvious to me you have ticked you SIL off somehow. Probably related to something that happened when the baby was in the hospital. Have you asked her if you’ve done something to upset her, and apologized? You may have been insensitive, she may have been over sensitive- but either way being the bigger person is helpful.

Who knows what is really going on in their marriage..the only people who do are (1) your brother and (2) her. It is literally impossible to get a full and accurate picture. Literally impossible. Marital problems are virtually never only one spouses fault, you realize? It takes two. Your brother is almost certainly not providing a completely accurate picture- and it may not even be on purpose- it is just the way people tend to describe personal issues from their own viewpoint.

Your brother may be a wonderful guy, but he sounds immature. He should not be discussing his marital problems with the extended family- and certainly not with such detail. This is never a good idea and your post is 100% proof of WHY. Whatever else is going on- I feel truly very sorry for your SIL about this issue. Her DH is breaking her trust and airing their dirty laundry to the extended family. I am not at all surprised she is putting distance between them and you. In this regard it is YOUR BROTHER’S fault but she may be blaming you..when it is not your fault he has such a big mouth. This is one of of my reasons discussing marital issues with extended family is general high recommended against.

I’d stop discussing your brothers marriage with him. There is absolutely zero possibility that you are helping anyone by doing this. Tell him you love him and his family and hope things improve and encourage counseling. Repeat each time. Do not listen to these details or encourage him telling you these things. Also I would discourage your mother from gossiping and complaining about this and certainly don’t gossip with her either.

The fault may very well not lie with your family- it seems to be marital issues. Be the bigger and more mature person, avoid gossiping and discussing this anymore and let them work this out. Don’t encourage negative talk about SIL either from brother or your mom. Maybe they will work it out maybe they won’t- but do the right thing.

Responding to your first paragraph. I have... that is what I explained in my previous post. I had no idea she was upset at me for not contacting her directly and honestly her anger/disappointment was totally unjustified. I simply did what my brother asked me to do. Even after showing her his message “do not contact SIL, she does not want to make a big deal about this” she said “ he meant to not call me, not to not write to me”.... I mean how was I supposed to read his/her mind? My brother told both of us that that situation was all his fault and that he should not have tried to protect her... SIL was still upset with me and (though I don’t even understand the logic at this point) she said we just have different opinions... I had no opinion... I just did as I was told... but I guess I am still the bad person

[Anonymous]

What your brother is doing is not helping the situation and he is not being fair to you or his wife. He needs to stop venting to you and vilifying his wife, he has been with her for 7 years and by all accounts without issues. If he needs to talk, he should find an impartial or professional source. Once they mend their relationship, and chances are they will, you and your mom are going to be iced out further. She will forgive him, but will never forgive you. Attempt to mend what you can during your visit, bring some special gifts for the baby (smth your SIL might think is stylish) and ask her when you can visit. Ask if there is a special activity the cousins can do together etc. Reach out and let her decide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - sorry everyone is piling on you. Sounds like a tough situation. SIL is probably insecure and a control freak - toxic combination. Not sure there is much you can do. Your brother has to stand up for himself. How does she even know if he joins the family group chat? Does she go through his phone? That is very creepy. You can turn off notifications on WhatsApp so the messages don’t pop up on the screen

Thanks. She knows and he would not do it without her knowing. He also deletes all our texts because he is afraid she might read them...

Op, you also said your family removed her from group chats per your brother’s request. Well maybe doing that made her paranoid. You keep relying on your brother’s version of what’s happening but little actual conversations with her. I can’t imagine a conversation would be productive because of your desperate laundry list to illustrate how awful she is, an example that she likes to take pictures of her dogs but not walk them. So what. That’s not a crime.

A big problem is that you do have cognitive distortions when you refer to your sil. For example, you assumed that she scheduled the baptism 2 weeks after you left the country so she could purposely exclude you and your family. You don’t know. Churches often don’t have baptisms on demand. They are usually packed events with multiple families. If not then why didn’t you ask your brother to coordinate the baptism with your visit?

You still haven’t explained if your sil is so horrible, why your brother stayed with her for 5 years. He could have left if he was so miserable. He’s making excuses, you’re making excuses for him.

Stop trying to fix his life. You sound as controlling as she does and maybe that’s why you guys clash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not adding up. OP admitted that it was when she didn't ask about her sil at all that her sil had it with her. While her baby was in a hospital. I wonder how many times, did this op make her sil feel like she is a tag along. It is telling that OP is upset about never seeing her brother alone, but that sil always used to come along. SIL probably found out that op complained about wanting her brother alone. Most of us that are mature and married usually come as a package, we don't insist on going alone somewhere all the time. I go out with my sister and her dh out all the time, seems odd to exclude him. Sometimes he doesn't feel like going, but he is always invited. Yet, op showed her objection to this here, I find that immature and possessive.

-1 Mature married people are perfectly capable of spending time with their siblings without their spouses tagging along and don't need permission to do so.

And look at her reply above? She asked about SIL through brother, as if SIL is invisible? SIL got the message. Plus, how many times did she see and talk to her brother? Sounds like more than three. Her niece was in a hospital and op couldn't bother to send a text to her SIL? But, now she is texting her. Sounds to me like SIL had enough of being ignored, having demands of sil to enjoy her brother alone... and said, enough is enough. Good for her.

This is NOT what happened!!!! I was writing to both on our family chat until my brother wrote separately to my parents and I to stop contacting SIL because she was stressed out and did not want to make their situation a big deal (his words) so obviously we stop writing to SIL and to the family chat. At this point we are all scared of her reactions so we absoloutely consider her ALL THE TIME.
SIL was (maybe still is) upset that I did not go against my brother’s recommendation and did not write her directly. Also, this was in April. First she did not believe my brother had said that, then even after I showed her his message, she was was still upset and said I should have written to her, but not called her... anyway... this is crazy and if you understood the situation and don’t think this issues are crazy, you are insane too

So you didn't write this:
OP here. I asked about her multiple times in the 3 days they were at the hospital and once home, but to my brother and not to her directly. That was her issue with me. I think it’s crazy and that is why people are not understanding it correctly.
Basically SIL would have liked all conversations to go through her.

I am going to explain this one more time and then I won’t anymore.
In April their daughter got sick. She was 2 months old and the pediatrician suggested they take her to the hospital because she was so young. Up until the hospital stay, both my brother and SIL were in our family chat and we were exchanging messages there. Then my brother wrote to both my parents an I to stop writing on the chat at to SIL directly because she was stressed out and did not want to make their situation a big deal (maybe my parents had called or we had texted on the chat... frankly I can’t remember). From that point on, we all stopped writing on the group chat and I only interacted with my brother. I asked about the baby and SIL a lot, was worried and mostly felt bad for them because I know how it feels to be at the hospital with your baby. I did not question my brother’s request. I don’t know SIL as well as he does obviously and maybe she just wanted to focus exclusively on her baby (probably like I would) so I asked about them a lot, but only to my brother. About 2-3 weeks after they came back from the hospital, I find out SIL is very upset with me saying that I disappointed her and that I am not honest when I say I care about their daughter. My jaw dropped and I asked why she would say such things. Her response was that she expected me to ask her directly how she (not her baby) was doing. I then showed her my brother’s message (after she called me a liar because she did not believe me on my word), even then she kept insisting that I was wrong. She also fought with my brother about this a lot I am sure (but maybe she had a reasons with him).

Does that make sense now?

OP, sounds like your brother asked people to cool it off with discussing baby's health situation in the family chat - which was understandably distracting to your SIL. It seems like you could reach your SIL directly to ask how she was doing. You misunderstood and she was upset. All understandable. She gets some credit here as I am sure she was super worried about the baby.

Your SIL may be a bit controlling or insecure, but many people are. It is your brother's issue to resolve. Live YOUR life. Do not take on other families' issued upon yourself to resolve.