Do you believe in Hell?
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Anonymous
Omg. Why is YOUR forgiveness worth mentioning? So weird. The religious people (most of them) posting on this thread sound so crazy. Reminding me why attending church always made my skin crawl... |
Anonymous
Situation: The child rapist dies b/c the father of the child he raped and killed shot him in the heart. The rapist dies and is traveling around until he sees St. Peter at the pearly gates. He becomes frightened and repents. He enters heaven. The father who shot him dies of a broken heart. He floats to the pearly gates but doesn't repent, feeling as though he had been justified in killing that fucking bastard who took his daughter's life. He is condemned to hell. What's wrong with this picture, you nutty Christians? |
Anonymous
Here's what I think is wrong with the picture. (I am the "progressive Christian" that the "real Christian" is attacking.) The child rapist did a horrible, unspeakably evil act. But I believe there is divine light in every single person on this planet even when it's nearly impossible to see. I do not believe there is any way someone who rapes a child can become a part of the creative conscious of God. Just can't happen. I don't care if he "professed his love for Jesus Christ" on his deathbed. God is all good. Evil cannot be a part of that. Perhaps the child rapist has to endure a painful review of his life. And perhaps he has to return to earth (or wherever) to try again. I believe we keep trying until we get it right. Maybe not. Maybe there is an answer I am missing. But I do not believe the rapist, no matter how evil, will spend an eternity roasting in a of fire. His life on earth is nothing compared to eternity. The father who was completely justified in killing the rapist? I believe he too will meet with his Creator. His Source. I believe his life will be reviewed. And perhaps he will have the option to stay and remain with God. Or maybe he'll choose to return to earth if he feels he needs to. Certainly God would understand the pain associated with the torture and killing of a child. His Son sacrificed His life. The rapist will suffer. But it won't be for an eternity. And there won't be a little red man with a pitch fork. |
Anonymous
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Anonymous
------ Nice, but there's no way you can know any of this -- it's an explanation that makes you feel good - and I't not completely Christian, either -- there's some reincarnation in there that is not any part of the Christian tradition. Perhaps it appeals to your sense of compassion and fairness. |
Anonymous
It's easy to make people look silly when you caricature their beliefs, but this scenario does not get at what Christianity teaches. To start, no one goes to hell because of any one egregious sin. It's not like you're just going along well in life, and then, wow, you just raped a kid. Off to hell for you! Christian teaching is that we are all sinful. Some of us sin worse than others, and perhaps worse sin gets punished in Hell more severely, though there's no Christian teaching on that point. But what is clear Christian teaching is that we all sin, we all do things we know are wrong, and Hell is what awaits us for our sin. But God loves us, and He gave His son, Jesus Christ, who is God in the flesh, to die on the cross for our sins, and if we trust in that, He will save us. It's just that simple. He is kind and merciful, and all He asks is that you confess your sins and ask to be forgiven. Another problem with this scenario is the rapist floating around in the air until he gets scared and repents. That is also not Christian teaching. Once we die, we are judged (Hebrews 9:27). If we have trusted in Christ to forgive us, we are forgiven. If we have not, then you die in your sins. So this proverbial child rapist, who it appears in this scenario dies unrepentant of his sins, has no chance to change his mind once confronted with eternity. God is patient with us in this life and give us many chances to repent. We all do wrong, and when we confess that to Christ, we are forgiven. In the scenario presented, it appears the rapist has not repented before he's shot by the father, so he is lost in Hell. The last problem is the father. He is not judged on one act of retribution (though God does say that vengeance is His, which should give us cause to rejoice that He is just so we don't have to worry about shooting people), but he is rather judged by his acceptance or rejection of Christ. Again, it's not like the father is going along well in life, and he just happens to shoot the rapist of his child, so, so sorry, but off to Hell for you! The father has sinned in his life entirely apart from this incident. If he has sought forgiveness through Christ, he is forgiven those sins. If he has not, he, too, like the rapist dies in his sins. We are all accountable for our lives and what we do with them, and we will all fall short of God's standard. That's why God, who does love us more than we can comprehend, provided a sacrifice in Christ for us. If you examine your own life, you will know you sin. Seek the LORD while He may be found. I'm sure the progressive Christian will pick this apart, but nothing what he or she wrote bears any remote resemblance to Biblical Christian teaching, and no Christian believes Satan walks around in a red suit and a pitchfork. Instead, the Bible teaches that mankind will scoff at Satan, who will be brought lower in Hell than all others. |
Anonymous
It's easy to represent Christian (or any) beliefs into what suits you best -- as it seems both you and progressive Christian are doing in your own ways. |
Anonymous
That wasn't my point. My point is that if a flawed human can forgive something, so surely will God. I don't think the PP wants or asked for my forgiveness but she wants God's. I was trying to be kind. Odd that makes your skin crawl. |
Anonymous
doesn't necessarily follow at all. Did you read that in the Bible? |
Anonymous
Let's say there are three 35 year old guys who commit the same terrible sin. One drops dead a year later without repenting. That guy goes to hell. The second guy gets cancer, of which he dies slowly, over a period of a year, giving him a chance to sincerely repent his sin. He goes to heaven. Guy #3 goes on to commit that terrible sin numerous times during his long life, but accepts Jesus as his savior at the age of 80, repents, never sins like that again and dies peacefully in his 90's. He goes to heaven too. Sorry, I don't see God's kindness and mercy there. I see the most sinful guy getting the best deal, simply because he lived longer, which gave him a chance to sin more, but also to be forgiven for his many sins, that harmed many more innocent people, whom God also supposedly loves. |
Anonymous
Are you suggesting that sinning is a benefit to us in this life? |
Anonymous
Ahhh, but the difference is clear. I (the progressive Christian) freely admit that I could be wrong. Over and over again I have stated that I have prayed about it and meditated on issues like this and find myself coming back to one thing - God is love. I have studied spirituality and world religion for years and pulled from many sacred texts. I am 100% positive that no one is "right". However, I do believe with absolutely certainty that the "hell" fundie Christians love to hold over people's heads is not Biblical. And more importantly it is in direct conflict with everything God is. A loving God - the Creator of all that is - would not create a system where people risk an eternity in hell for lack of exposure to the Bible. That just makes no sense at all to any thinking person. |
Anonymous
yeah As an atheist, I'll take my chances. |
Anonymous
No, and your scenario doesn't make sense either, but it's much more compassionate and pleasant. |
Anonymous
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If heaven and hell are real, I have a hard time fathoming how anyone who has a loved one sent to hell could ever find eternal happiness in heaven knowing their loved one is in torment and they'll never be reunited.
Which would prevent heaven from being the perfect place that it is supposed to be. I don't believe in either, but if I did I would agonize over this conundrum. |