Do you believe in Hell?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It seems pretty obvious, if you accept the Christian God, that he created us in part to see some of us go to hell, thanks to his gift of free will.

I mean, why create hell if no one would be there? And why make it so hard for a lot of the people he created to even know about him.

Many people, over 1000's of years, have lived in countries that have had no or limited access to information about how his son died for our sins. In other countries like the US, even dedicated proselytizers can't convince all the people about the need to believe.

And here we are in the 21st century when more and more people are literate and have incredible access to information and instead of more people believing in Him, more people are dropping their beliefs to become "spiritual but not religious" or not religious, period.

It sure sounds like he's lost interest in us.

Plenty of atheists swear they will not, cannot, be swayed to accept God. They have come to their own conclusions. So what if hell is more of a nonexistence after this lifetime. What would be so bad about that for them? I don't think hell is fire for eternity. I think few people here do.

Atheists expect non-existence after death -- just as we - all of us-- had non-existence before life. Do you think christian believers have eternal life and atheists just fade away?

if so, how do you know that?

Personally I think atheists get the afterlife they expect - a version of nothingness.

I think we all get nothingness -- just like all the other living things. Or do you believe in Dog heaven? and if so, what about snail heaven or snake heaven? DOn't tell me -- Jesus didn't die for them.

Of course you think we all get nothingness, you're an atheist. And I'm a person who believes there is a heaven. OK. So where does that leave us?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another atheist, who does not believe in hell, or any afterlife.

So what happens if a murderer/rapist/abuser does not "find" the correct religion/god in their life. Do they get a pass to repent, and then go to heaven?

But then again how can a murderer/rapist/abuser not know that their actions are wrong, no matter what, regardless of believing in a religion/god?

How can a god NOT put a murderer/rapist/abuser in hell, even if they "repent" a million times over?

And if repentance is not necessary to enter heaven, then what's the point of religion/god?

Ultimately I don't believe in any of it. The heaven/hell/afterlife question is just one of many, many reasons why I don't believe in religion/god.

Repentence IS necessary to enter Heaven. And what would the threshold be for evil acts before you're disqualified? That's why the murderer/rapist/abuser argument is tough to defend down the line. When do the scales get tipped so that you're beyond hope? But God in His love and mercy is willing to forgive anyone who seeks forgiveness through Christ.

Do you realize what a bad ambassador for Christ you are?

I guess I don't. I am always happy to learn how to improve, though.

Try not being so doctrinaire -- but that might not be possible, given such rigid beliefs. I think the effect might be that you're turning off some of the very people you'd like to bring to Christianity. But maybe that's OK with you -- free will and all.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

That is actually false info. People are leaving organized religion and adults are especially leaving fundamentalist religions after being threatened as children by what would await them if they questioned Christ. Even if the chances were very good, if it still asking a mother to give birth with the threat that her beloved child will go to hell.

Again with the children in hell?

Again with the glossing over of false information. So far no one has an answer for the prospective mother whose protecting her children from hell by not having any -- except for having lots of kids, increasing the chances that some will accept Christ and get to heaven.

I'm the one who suggested she seek professional help. Do you think DCUM is better equipped to help her?

I also think she's in serious need of professional help. I think DCUM can help her and others see how ludicrous is the concept of not having children to avoid seeing them be punished by a god who gave them the "free will" to not believe in him. I feel terribly sorry for her, but am glad she brought this concept to light, so others can see how horrible certain Christian beliefs are.

Wait a minute. This woman is "in serious need of professional help" and in the next sentence you lay out that DCUM can help her?! An anonymous, online, parents board can and should help an poster based on one post? Beyond suggesting she seek PROFESSIONAL assistance (secular or nonsecular) we should conduct some protocol to aid in her issues?

You need to take a step back.

different kinds of help from different kinds of sources - both useful.

I completely disagree. For the untrained to try and "help" a person with a debilitating emotional issue can actually be damaging. But you don't really care about her, do you? You're just using her to make a point.

Humanist indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another atheist, who does not believe in hell, or any afterlife.

So what happens if a murderer/rapist/abuser does not "find" the correct religion/god in their life. Do they get a pass to repent, and then go to heaven?

But then again how can a murderer/rapist/abuser not know that their actions are wrong, no matter what, regardless of believing in a religion/god?

How can a god NOT put a murderer/rapist/abuser in hell, even if they "repent" a million times over?

And if repentance is not necessary to enter heaven, then what's the point of religion/god?

Ultimately I don't believe in any of it. The heaven/hell/afterlife question is just one of many, many reasons why I don't believe in religion/god.

Repentence IS necessary to enter Heaven. And what would the threshold be for evil acts before you're disqualified? That's why the murderer/rapist/abuser argument is tough to defend down the line. When do the scales get tipped so that you're beyond hope? But God in His love and mercy is willing to forgive anyone who seeks forgiveness through Christ.

Do you realize what a bad ambassador for Christ you are?

I guess I don't. I am always happy to learn how to improve, though.

Try not being so doctrinaire -- but that might not be possible, given such rigid beliefs. I think the effect might be that you're turning off some of the very people you'd like to bring to Christianity. But maybe that's OK with you -- free will and all.

I try to think about how to state things best, but I don't see how to bring someone to Christianity without defining what it is, which I suppose is what you'd call doctrinaire. Doctrine is very important to Christianity. And besides, why is it so off-putting to tell someone that God will forgive them their sins if they'll trust in Christ? That's where I was at one point, sinful and lost, and I was very happy to have Christ to turn to. Perhaps someone else will experience that same peace and joy. Just thinking nice thoughts about Jesus being a nice guy isn't enough. Jesus is God and necessary for our salvation. It's important to know that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another atheist, who does not believe in hell, or any afterlife.

So what happens if a murderer/rapist/abuser does not "find" the correct religion/god in their life. Do they get a pass to repent, and then go to heaven?

But then again how can a murderer/rapist/abuser not know that their actions are wrong, no matter what, regardless of believing in a religion/god?

How can a god NOT put a murderer/rapist/abuser in hell, even if they "repent" a million times over?

And if repentance is not necessary to enter heaven, then what's the point of religion/god?

Ultimately I don't believe in any of it. The heaven/hell/afterlife question is just one of many, many reasons why I don't believe in religion/god.

Repentence IS necessary to enter Heaven. And what would the threshold be for evil acts before you're disqualified? That's why the murderer/rapist/abuser argument is tough to defend down the line. When do the scales get tipped so that you're beyond hope? But God in His love and mercy is willing to forgive anyone who seeks forgiveness through Christ.

Do you realize what a bad ambassador for Christ you are?

I guess I don't. I am always happy to learn how to improve, though.

Try not being so doctrinaire -- but that might not be possible, given such rigid beliefs. I think the effect might be that you're turning off some of the very people you'd like to bring to Christianity. But maybe that's OK with you -- free will and all.

I'm a Christian. Not of her denomination. She and I have some differing beliefs from what I can tell from her posts, but she's not turning me away from God if that's what you're getting at. She is vocal. So? Should she be quiet out of fear of turning away new believers? If people truly seek God they will find Him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The fearful poster earlier should know that if you teach your children about Christ from the beginning, actually believe the Gospel, and model Christ-like behavior as a parent (and friend, spouse, brother/sister, etc.), the chances of them continuing in the faith are really quite good. But if you encourage all sorts of "spiritual questioning," which is really just a way to deny Christ, you probably will end up with who-knows-what.

That is actually false info. People are leaving organized religion and adults are especially leaving fundamentalist religions after being threatened as children by what would await them if they questioned Christ. Even if the chances were very good, if it still asking a mother to give birth with the threat that her beloved child will go to hell.

Again with the children in hell?

Again with the glossing over of false information. So far no one has an answer for the prospective mother whose protecting her children from hell by not having any -- except for having lots of kids, increasing the chances that some will accept Christ and get to heaven.

I'm the one who suggested she seek professional help. Do you think DCUM is better equipped to help her?

I also think she's in serious need of professional help. I think DCUM can help her and others see how ludicrous is the concept of not having children to avoid seeing them be punished by a god who gave them the "free will" to not believe in him. I feel terribly sorry for her, but am glad she brought this concept to light, so others can see how horrible certain Christian beliefs are.

Wait a minute. This woman is "in serious need of professional help" and in the next sentence you lay out that DCUM can help her?! An anonymous, online, parents board can and should help an poster based on one post? Beyond suggesting she seek PROFESSIONAL assistance (secular or nonsecular) we should conduct some protocol to aid in her issues?

You need to take a step back.

different kinds of help from different kinds of sources - both useful.

I completely disagree. For the untrained to try and "help" a person with a debilitating emotional issue can actually be damaging. But you don't really care about her, do you? You're just using her to make a point.

Humanist indeed.

DCUM is not a place to come for professional help but sometimes something helpful is said here -- I think people understand that, except for those trying to find something to be critical about.

[Anonymous]

i worry a lot that the abortion i had at 20 will send me there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another atheist, who does not believe in hell, or any afterlife.

So what happens if a murderer/rapist/abuser does not "find" the correct religion/god in their life. Do they get a pass to repent, and then go to heaven?

But then again how can a murderer/rapist/abuser not know that their actions are wrong, no matter what, regardless of believing in a religion/god?

How can a god NOT put a murderer/rapist/abuser in hell, even if they "repent" a million times over?

And if repentance is not necessary to enter heaven, then what's the point of religion/god?

Ultimately I don't believe in any of it. The heaven/hell/afterlife question is just one of many, many reasons why I don't believe in religion/god.

Repentence IS necessary to enter Heaven. And what would the threshold be for evil acts before you're disqualified? That's why the murderer/rapist/abuser argument is tough to defend down the line. When do the scales get tipped so that you're beyond hope? But God in His love and mercy is willing to forgive anyone who seeks forgiveness through Christ.

Do you realize what a bad ambassador for Christ you are?

I guess I don't. I am always happy to learn how to improve, though.

Try not being so doctrinaire -- but that might not be possible, given such rigid beliefs. I think the effect might be that you're turning off some of the very people you'd like to bring to Christianity. But maybe that's OK with you -- free will and all.

I'm a Christian. Not of her denomination. She and I have some differing beliefs from what I can tell from her posts, but she's not turning me away from God if that's what you're getting at. She is vocal. So? Should she be quiet out of fear of turning away new believers? If people truly seek God they will find Him.

Good that it isn't affecting your beliefs, but it may be affecting your perceptions of other Christians and you may try to consciously separate yourself from being mistaken for this kind of person just because you're both Christian.

Fewer and fewer people are finding God these days, in part because they can see that some of god's people are not very good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another atheist, who does not believe in hell, or any afterlife.

So what happens if a murderer/rapist/abuser does not "find" the correct religion/god in their life. Do they get a pass to repent, and then go to heaven?

But then again how can a murderer/rapist/abuser not know that their actions are wrong, no matter what, regardless of believing in a religion/god?

How can a god NOT put a murderer/rapist/abuser in hell, even if they "repent" a million times over?

And if repentance is not necessary to enter heaven, then what's the point of religion/god?

Ultimately I don't believe in any of it. The heaven/hell/afterlife question is just one of many, many reasons why I don't believe in religion/god.

Repentence IS necessary to enter Heaven. And what would the threshold be for evil acts before you're disqualified? That's why the murderer/rapist/abuser argument is tough to defend down the line. When do the scales get tipped so that you're beyond hope? But God in His love and mercy is willing to forgive anyone who seeks forgiveness through Christ.

Do you realize what a bad ambassador for Christ you are?

I guess I don't. I am always happy to learn how to improve, though.

Try not being so doctrinaire -- but that might not be possible, given such rigid beliefs. I think the effect might be that you're turning off some of the very people you'd like to bring to Christianity. But maybe that's OK with you -- free will and all.

I try to think about how to state things best, but I don't see how to bring someone to Christianity without defining what it is, which I suppose is what you'd call doctrinaire. Doctrine is very important to Christianity. And besides, why is it so off-putting to tell someone that God will forgive them their sins if they'll trust in Christ? That's where I was at one point, sinful and lost, and I was very happy to have Christ to turn to. Perhaps someone else will experience that same peace and joy. Just thinking nice thoughts about Jesus being a nice guy isn't enough. Jesus is God and necessary for our salvation. It's important to know that.

Because it presumes that they think they are sinful and need to be saved, by Christ, of all people, whom they may be getting along just fine without -- or getting along with their own kinder, gentler version of Christ. You don't seem to get that what was so helpful to you, might not be what others want or need. Your way or the highway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another atheist, who does not believe in hell, or any afterlife.

So what happens if a murderer/rapist/abuser does not "find" the correct religion/god in their life. Do they get a pass to repent, and then go to heaven?

But then again how can a murderer/rapist/abuser not know that their actions are wrong, no matter what, regardless of believing in a religion/god?

How can a god NOT put a murderer/rapist/abuser in hell, even if they "repent" a million times over?

And if repentance is not necessary to enter heaven, then what's the point of religion/god?

Ultimately I don't believe in any of it. The heaven/hell/afterlife question is just one of many, many reasons why I don't believe in religion/god.

Repentence IS necessary to enter Heaven. And what would the threshold be for evil acts before you're disqualified? That's why the murderer/rapist/abuser argument is tough to defend down the line. When do the scales get tipped so that you're beyond hope? But God in His love and mercy is willing to forgive anyone who seeks forgiveness through Christ.

Do you realize what a bad ambassador for Christ you are?

I guess I don't. I am always happy to learn how to improve, though.

Try not being so doctrinaire -- but that might not be possible, given such rigid beliefs. I think the effect might be that you're turning off some of the very people you'd like to bring to Christianity. But maybe that's OK with you -- free will and all.

I try to think about how to state things best, but I don't see how to bring someone to Christianity without defining what it is, which I suppose is what you'd call doctrinaire. Doctrine is very important to Christianity. And besides, why is it so off-putting to tell someone that God will forgive them their sins if they'll trust in Christ? That's where I was at one point, sinful and lost, and I was very happy to have Christ to turn to. Perhaps someone else will experience that same peace and joy. Just thinking nice thoughts about Jesus being a nice guy isn't enough. Jesus is God and necessary for our salvation. It's important to know that.

Because it presumes that they think they are sinful and need to be saved, by Christ, of all people, whom they may be getting along just fine without -- or getting along with their own kinder, gentler version of Christ. You don't seem to get that what was so helpful to you, might not be what others want or need. Your way or the highway.

^^meant to bold the off-putting section

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems pretty obvious, if you accept the Christian God, that he created us in part to see some of us go to hell, thanks to his gift of free will.

I mean, why create hell if no one would be there? And why make it so hard for a lot of the people he created to even know about him.

Many people, over 1000's of years, have lived in countries that have had no or limited access to information about how his son died for our sins. In other countries like the US, even dedicated proselytizers can't convince all the people about the need to believe.

And here we are in the 21st century when more and more people are literate and have incredible access to information and instead of more people believing in Him, more people are dropping their beliefs to become "spiritual but not religious" or not religious, period.

It sure sounds like he's lost interest in us.

Plenty of atheists swear they will not, cannot, be swayed to accept God. They have come to their own conclusions. So what if hell is more of a nonexistence after this lifetime. What would be so bad about that for them? I don't think hell is fire for eternity. I think few people here do.

Atheists expect non-existence after death -- just as we - all of us-- had non-existence before life. Do you think christian believers have eternal life and atheists just fade away?

if so, how do you know that?

Personally I think atheists get the afterlife they expect - a version of nothingness.

I think we all get nothingness -- just like all the other living things. Or do you believe in Dog heaven? and if so, what about snail heaven or snake heaven? DOn't tell me -- Jesus didn't die for them.

Of course you think we all get nothingness, you're an atheist. And I'm a person who believes there is a heaven. OK. So where does that leave us?

It means we'll both "find out" after we're dead. Actually if I'm right, we'll both never know - we'll just fade out like when we go to sleep or go under anesthesia - except we won't wake up again. If you're right, you'll wake up in heaven -- and will find out if atheists and others who did not buy your specific criteria for eternal life are there too. If I'm wrong, then I'll see you there -- or be looking up from below, depending on how God judges people who don't believe in him but who otherwise led good lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems pretty obvious, if you accept the Christian God, that he created us in part to see some of us go to hell, thanks to his gift of free will.

I mean, why create hell if no one would be there? And why make it so hard for a lot of the people he created to even know about him.

Many people, over 1000's of years, have lived in countries that have had no or limited access to information about how his son died for our sins. In other countries like the US, even dedicated proselytizers can't convince all the people about the need to believe.

And here we are in the 21st century when more and more people are literate and have incredible access to information and instead of more people believing in Him, more people are dropping their beliefs to become "spiritual but not religious" or not religious, period.

It sure sounds like he's lost interest in us.

Plenty of atheists swear they will not, cannot, be swayed to accept God. They have come to their own conclusions. So what if hell is more of a nonexistence after this lifetime. What would be so bad about that for them? I don't think hell is fire for eternity. I think few people here do.

Atheists expect non-existence after death -- just as we - all of us-- had non-existence before life. Do you think christian believers have eternal life and atheists just fade away?

if so, how do you know that?

Personally I think atheists get the afterlife they expect - a version of nothingness.

I think we all get nothingness -- just like all the other living things. Or do you believe in Dog heaven? and if so, what about snail heaven or snake heaven? DOn't tell me -- Jesus didn't die for them.

Of course you think we all get nothingness, you're an atheist. And I'm a person who believes there is a heaven. OK. So where does that leave us?

It means we'll both "find out" after we're dead. Actually if I'm right, we'll both never know - we'll just fade out like when we go to sleep or go under anesthesia - except we won't wake up again. If you're right, you'll wake up in heaven -- and will find out if atheists and others who did not buy your specific criteria for eternal life are there too. If I'm wrong, then I'll see you there -- or be looking up from below, depending on how God judges people who don't believe in him but who otherwise led good lives.

Agreed. Maybe I'll see you around. lol

[Anonymous]

I wanted to add that I don't think God puts you in hell. You put yourself there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i worry a lot that the abortion i had at 20 will send me there

I forgive you and if I can, God can. Please be at peace with yourself. Life throws us hard choices and we are all flawed. You are still worthy of love and compassion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to add that I don't think God puts you in hell. You put yourself there.

we know - free will. The same free will that tortures the woman who is afraid to have children because they could exert their free will to not believe in God. I hope she finds good professional help.