Do you believe in Hell?
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Anonymous
That's why the progressive churches with compassionate and pleasant messages aren't hurting for members as badly as the Fundie churches. The world is terribly unpleasant these days. Nobody wants to hear more bad news. Nobody wants to be guilted and to hear others (gays, nonbelievers) shamed. Too much negativity. I bet that half of the straight and married in most churches are only there because their wives make the family attend. Who needs more people telling you what to think and what to do? Only people who enjoy negativity and narrow-minded authoritarianism. |
Anonymous
What the three scenarios above suggest is that happenstance or luck (or perhaps God's will) can result in someone going to heaven who sinned more and caused pain to many more people, while someone who sinned less and did less harm will suffer eternally. Are you suggesting that this is acceptable to God? |
Anonymous
not the PP (I liked the situations, btw) But it's all about statistics! I love it! According to God's "plan," age can either help you or hurt you. brilliant! So while sinning doesn't benefit us (don't know where you got that from the PP's situations), sometimes you're lucky and sometimes you're not. Isn't that really what life is? a gamble? |
Anonymous
The simple message of Christianity is that we all sin, and that sin leads to spiritual death, which puts us in Hell. But if we accept Christ, God will forgive us, and we will have eternal life with Him in Heaven. You are looking at your scenarios from a human perspective, as though you are saying some sin is acceptable and some isn't, and as though you are judging for yourself whose sin is unpardonable and whose isn't. The Bible is very clear that we ALL sin, so from God's perspective, we ALL need Christ. That's the point. Christ is for everyone. Let me ask you, are you wanting some people to go to Hell? If not, why are you preoccupied over how badly some people sin vs. others? And if you are, why are you blaming God for judging us on faith and our actions? The message of Christianity is that, even though we all sin, God loves us all equally, and wants all of us to come to repentance and a knowledge of the truth. This is a loving God who will not condemn any of us for our actions if we put our trust in the sacrifice He provided for our own sins. We are not supposed to worry about other people's sins but our own. Some Christians get a bad rap about being so judgmental, but a true Christian isn't that way. We all understand that we're all guilty before God. It's not my desire to point out anyone's specific sins; rather, I want people to understand that God says they're sinners in general and need Christ. God will deal with each one of us as He sees fit, and no one can honestly deny that he or she sins. If you don't want Christians to be judgmental, why are you trying to be so? Here is a parable that Jesus told that addresses this. God's wisdom (and love and mercy) are much greater than our own. Matthew 20:1-16: For the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the marketplace, and to them he said, ‘You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing. And he said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’ They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’ And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.’ And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. Now when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius. And on receiving it they grumbled at the master of the house, saying, ‘These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.’ But he replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? Take what belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you. Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’ So the last will be first, and the first last.” A truly loving heart would rejoice over any sinner coming to Christ and entering Heaven, regardless of how long that sinner's "earned" it. |
Anonymous
This is so simplistic. You nuts act as though any passage from the bible supports your bullshit theory that repentance is a way to earn our wings. I'll be flying around in heaven with the child rapist and Anton LaVey (if he repented, that is). I love it. |
Anonymous
"Situations" pp here -- it's also vague and not addressing the issues presented, which we've seen before here when conservative Christians really don't have a cogent response. |
Anonymous
Maybe, but the progressive churches ARE hurting and historically have lost more members than the conservatives. I think people need a positive reason to go to church for the good churches to survive -- not just that they are not as bad as some others. That might stave off membership loss for a while, but the trend continues downward. |
Anonymous
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Here's the deal . Nobody on this side of death knows ... And that is why death is terrifying when it is occurring .
I figure , why take the chance? |
Anonymous
What? I'm the "fundie" Christian PP. I addressed at length all the scenarios you presented in an earlier response, and I elaborated on them again here. And you can't get much more cogent than: We are all sinners, but we can either be forgiven through Christ and go to Heaven or die in our sins and go to Hell. God is a merciful God to make the issue that stark. I understand that you don't accept or like that answer, but that is classical Christian teaching, very easy to defend with voluminous Scripture, and addresses everybody. I'm not trying be argumentative, but I'm baffled how you can say your premises weren't addressed. |
Anonymous
"Voluminous scripture" proves nothing. In a thousand years from now, some culture could make 50 Shades of Gray its bible. Get it? |
Anonymous
"Voluminous scripture" proves nothing. In a thousand years from now, some culture could make 50 Shades of Gray its bible. Get it? I mentioned voluminous Scripture because Christians were referred to as having a "bs theory" and was earlier than that that we can take one piece of the Bible and make it say whatever we want. But what I am presenting is the consistent clear message of Scripture. And the only reason I write these posts is so that perhaps someone will read them and understand that God is a forgiving, loving God that doesn't care what you've done if you'll only repent. I don't want anyone to go to Hell. More than that, I want everyone to go to Heaven. But I am perplexed by the dichotomy of these views denying Christian teaching: On one hand, it's said God is too good to send people to Hell, and on the other hand, some people (like child rapists) really deserve it and how dare I suggest they can find redemption. Which is it? |
Anonymous
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When a plane is crashing... Everybody prays.
End of story. |
Anonymous
| Here's what the Bible teaches: When you die, you will stand before God and review your life. Your sins will be on full display before you. It would probably be beneficial for you to take good stock of this now, while you can, to see how you will feel about that. Keep in mind that your sins include bad thoughts and desires as well as bad deeds. If some introspection starts to feel uncomfortable, try praying to Jesus. |
Anonymous
And now we're into misogyny.  Yes, all the fault of the women.
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Anonymous
not pp. What I don't "get" is how you keep demanding an answer that will satisfy you from the pp when nothing she posts will satisfy you. She is saying this what I believe based on ABC. And you're saying, OK, well your belief is a load of crap. It has been stablished you don't put any value into organized religion yet you want her to defend it. Why? What is your point? To change her mind? To air your grievances? Sounds like you're trying to "convert" people to your way of thinking. |