Offering Support to Jewish Friends

[Anonymous]

Fellow Jewish people, I have a WWYD question that is related to the OP.

I posted on Friday afternoon a quote from a podcast about how it's hard for non-Jews to understand how the Hamas attack on Israel feels like an attack on the global Jewish population. It was a statement about the nature of antisemitism and also an attempt for the US-based non-Jewish podcaster to express sympathy with the Diaspora Jewish community as they went on in the episode to discuss the specifics of last week's attacks and the history of the I/P conflict. I thought the episode was really well done and specifically appreciated the quote as a non-Jewish voice expressing the sense that they don't fully understand the hurt within the Jewish community, but still feel for us and for all the innocent lives lost in this war.

I have a Facebook friend who is an acquaintance from a job I had 12 years ago. We saw each other in the halls at work and I was only in that job for a year, so we didn't get to know each other and haven't kept in touch. This Facebook acquaintance messaged me on Saturday night to ask if I view the recent Armenian ethnic cleansing as "terror on the global population of Armenians" or if I could otherwise clarify the quote from the podcast. I haven't responded and my gut sense is not to respond, since I don't really know her and I feel like she's engaging in "whataboutism." Would you take the time to respond? Or just ignore it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fellow Jewish people, I have a WWYD question that is related to the OP.

I posted on Friday afternoon a quote from a podcast about how it's hard for non-Jews to understand how the Hamas attack on Israel feels like an attack on the global Jewish population. It was a statement about the nature of antisemitism and also an attempt for the US-based non-Jewish podcaster to express sympathy with the Diaspora Jewish community as they went on in the episode to discuss the specifics of last week's attacks and the history of the I/P conflict. I thought the episode was really well done and specifically appreciated the quote as a non-Jewish voice expressing the sense that they don't fully understand the hurt within the Jewish community, but still feel for us and for all the innocent lives lost in this war.

I have a Facebook friend who is an acquaintance from a job I had 12 years ago. We saw each other in the halls at work and I was only in that job for a year, so we didn't get to know each other and haven't kept in touch. This Facebook acquaintance messaged me on Saturday night to ask if I view the recent Armenian ethnic cleansing as "terror on the global population of Armenians" or if I could otherwise clarify the quote from the podcast. I haven't responded and my gut sense is not to respond, since I don't really know her and I feel like she's engaging in "whataboutism." Would you take the time to respond? Or just ignore it?

No response and delete her from your "friend" list. Even if she were Armenian, sendinng the "question" to you (and it is not a question, it is her attempt to put you in your place) is at the very least poor taste and at the most anti-Semetic. If she were sincere and/or one who was affected by armenian ethnic cleansing, she would be symphatic and not ask this "question" (scare quotes intended).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did Op ever come back? Most everyone has ignored her point altogether, especially the Jewish people who are complaining people didn’t reach out to them.

OP asked if other Jewish people felt the same way she did about non-Jewish friends reaching out. Many Jewish posters "complaining" (as you put it) were responding to OP to say that they didn't share her feelings and would have appreciated outreach from our non-Jewish friends. That's not "ignoring her point altogether;" it's just explaining why some of us don't feel the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the worst atrocity for the Jewish worldwide community in terms of number of Jewish people killed in a single day since the Holocaust. Yes it’s happening in Israel but it’s an attack on Jewish people everywhere. That is why people are providing support. You have a right to your feelings and it’s ok if it makes you uncomfortable but can’t you just say thank you and move on with your day?

I’m Jewish. If people offered me support, I’d say thank you and move on, but I think the Jewish people guilting non-Jews with the “your silence is noticed line” are being super mean, and maybe pushing nice non-Jewish people toward being a little scared of Jewish people.

I agree and wouldn’t post anything like this.. but I *have* noticed when people who are vocal about every other thing say nothing about this. It’s hard not to take note.

I agree.

Also i wouldn't expect acquaintances to say something. But if a close friend did not acknowledge what happened, but is talking to you about other things as if all is well, it is telling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's something I can't really discuss in real life.

Over the past few days, I've seen a lot of social media offering support to Jewish friends and posts from Jewish friends suggesting people offer support. People have reached out to me in light of what is happening in Israel that never did during say, the synagogue attacks in the United States or other events that felt much more connected to me as a Jew in the United States. I get the good instinct, which is why I'd never say anything other than thank you. But does this make anyone else uncomfortable? I get that religion and politics are inexorably intertwined in Israel; however, there is something I really don't like about the assumption that, as a Jew, I have a special connection to the country of Israel, any more than I would, Ukraine, for example, where my grandparents actually came from. It seems a really short distance from the dual loyalty trope.

In case this is too vague, I've had texts, for example, from people I've haven't spoken to in months, offering "support to my family in this difficult time."

You captured exactly how I feel.

I'm an American, people. I have no say in Israeli politics. And while I am heartbroken to see the antisemitism anywhere in the world, I am equally heartbroken to see any hatred in the world, including Islamaphobia. I'm not Israeli and stop conflating the two. There are Muslim and Christian Israelis (as well as every other religion). Why aren't you reaching out to the Muslims and Christians?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fellow Jewish people, I have a WWYD question that is related to the OP.

I posted on Friday afternoon a quote from a podcast about how it's hard for non-Jews to understand how the Hamas attack on Israel feels like an attack on the global Jewish population. It was a statement about the nature of antisemitism and also an attempt for the US-based non-Jewish podcaster to express sympathy with the Diaspora Jewish community as they went on in the episode to discuss the specifics of last week's attacks and the history of the I/P conflict. I thought the episode was really well done and specifically appreciated the quote as a non-Jewish voice expressing the sense that they don't fully understand the hurt within the Jewish community, but still feel for us and for all the innocent lives lost in this war.

I have a Facebook friend who is an acquaintance from a job I had 12 years ago. We saw each other in the halls at work and I was only in that job for a year, so we didn't get to know each other and haven't kept in touch. This Facebook acquaintance messaged me on Saturday night to ask if I view the recent Armenian ethnic cleansing as "terror on the global population of Armenians" or if I could otherwise clarify the quote from the podcast. I haven't responded and my gut sense is not to respond, since I don't really know her and I feel like she's engaging in "whataboutism." Would you take the time to respond? Or just ignore it?

This acquaintance was obnoxious. However, no one can speak “for the Jewish community,” which is diverse in its views and relationship with Israel. Personally, I have no friends/ relatives in Israel. I don’t see it as my “homeland” and have no special attachment to it. *Of course* the attacks are horrific and the details that continue to emerge are horrendous. That anyone needs to affirm that they condemn these attacks is sad.

BUT, I personally do not feel attacked as a Jew. This was an attack on Israel and Israeli Jews.

And I agree with the PP that it feels weird that people would assume my connection to Israel (when I have none), especially when we have rightly called out when all Jews are associated with the policies of the Israeli government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's something I can't really discuss in real life.

Over the past few days, I've seen a lot of social media offering support to Jewish friends and posts from Jewish friends suggesting people offer support. People have reached out to me in light of what is happening in Israel that never did during say, the synagogue attacks in the United States or other events that felt much more connected to me as a Jew in the United States. I get the good instinct, which is why I'd never say anything other than thank you. But does this make anyone else uncomfortable? I get that religion and politics are inexorably intertwined in Israel; however, there is something I really don't like about the assumption that, as a Jew, I have a special connection to the country of Israel, any more than I would, Ukraine, for example, where my grandparents actually came from. It seems a really short distance from the dual loyalty trope.

In case this is too vague, I've had texts, for example, from people I've haven't spoken to in months, offering "support to my family in this difficult time."

You captured exactly how I feel.

I'm an American, people. I have no say in Israeli politics. And while I am heartbroken to see the antisemitism anywhere in the world, I am equally heartbroken to see any hatred in the world, including Islamaphobia. I'm not Israeli and stop conflating the two. There are Muslim and Christian Israelis (as well as every other religion). Why aren't you reaching out to the Muslims and Christians?

I worry about the conflation of Jews and Israel - like we've spent so much time trying to convince crazy people on the right and the left that Jews don't all have some secret special loyalty to Israel. But now we're dealing with this attack, which is feeling personal even for those of us who aren't Israel and don't have family there/

I have no easy answers, or any answers at all. I just worry - I worry about a lot of things.

To the person whose coworker asked about Armenia - I don't know what I'd say, if anything. It does feel like a bait, not an actual question. I think simply ignoring is probably best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Op ever come back? Most everyone has ignored her point altogether, especially the Jewish people who are complaining people didn’t reach out to them.

OP asked if other Jewish people felt the same way she did about non-Jewish friends reaching out. Many Jewish posters "complaining" (as you put it) were responding to OP to say that they didn't share her feelings and would have appreciated outreach from our non-Jewish friends. That's not "ignoring her point altogether;" it's just explaining why some of us don't feel the same way.

OP here. This. I feel like my question was addressed, I gained some different perspective, and the conversation drifted in a way where I am interested in following but felt no need to contribute further.

I’ve always been proudly Jewish and love a lot about my heritage. But I’ve had a lot of friction with other Jews, mainly in my family, as I don’t put up with sexism, even when religiously traditional, and have always been very critical of current Israeli politics. So, I can, somehow, at the same time feel saddened and horrified at the attack on “my” people, saddened and horrified at the situation in general, and annoyed to be assumed by acquaintances to have a connection to Israel, as a political entity that I do not feel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Op ever come back? Most everyone has ignored her point altogether, especially the Jewish people who are complaining people didn’t reach out to them.

OP asked if other Jewish people felt the same way she did about non-Jewish friends reaching out. Many Jewish posters "complaining" (as you put it) were responding to OP to say that they didn't share her feelings and would have appreciated outreach from our non-Jewish friends. That's not "ignoring her point altogether;" it's just explaining why some of us don't feel the same way.

OP here. This. I feel like my question was addressed, I gained some different perspective, and the conversation drifted in a way where I am interested in following but felt no need to contribute further.

I’ve always been proudly Jewish and love a lot about my heritage. But I’ve had a lot of friction with other Jews, mainly in my family, as I don’t put up with sexism, even when religiously traditional, and have always been very critical of current Israeli politics. So, I can, somehow, at the same time feel saddened and horrified at the attack on “my” people, saddened and horrified at the situation in general, and annoyed to be assumed by acquaintances to have a connection to Israel, as a political entity that I do not feel.

My DH is Jewish and is adamantly anti-Israel (on a political level) yet at the same time understands what it means to some Jews as a homeland separate from politics. But he has absolutely zero interest in waving the Israeli flag, thinks AIPAC’s influence in DC is absurd, etc. There’s a small group of very progressive Jews like him. But by and large, many American Jews, like most Americans in general, don’t have nuanced views on foreign policy and just sort of vaguely “support Israel” without understanding what that means concretely in terms of war. That said, it is true that if you are in the Jewish community in the US you are never too far removed from someone with concrete ties to Israel, so that makes it more real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Op ever come back? Most everyone has ignored her point altogether, especially the Jewish people who are complaining people didn’t reach out to them.

OP asked if other Jewish people felt the same way she did about non-Jewish friends reaching out. Many Jewish posters "complaining" (as you put it) were responding to OP to say that they didn't share her feelings and would have appreciated outreach from our non-Jewish friends. That's not "ignoring her point altogether;" it's just explaining why some of us don't feel the same way.

OP here. This. I feel like my question was addressed, I gained some different perspective, and the conversation drifted in a way where I am interested in following but felt no need to contribute further.

I’ve always been proudly Jewish and love a lot about my heritage. But I’ve had a lot of friction with other Jews, mainly in my family, as I don’t put up with sexism, even when religiously traditional, and have always been very critical of current Israeli politics. So, I can, somehow, at the same time feel saddened and horrified at the attack on “my” people, saddened and horrified at the situation in general, and annoyed to be assumed by acquaintances to have a connection to Israel, as a political entity that I do not feel.

My DH is Jewish and is adamantly anti-Israel (on a political level) yet at the same time understands what it means to some Jews as a homeland separate from politics. But he has absolutely zero interest in waving the Israeli flag, thinks AIPAC’s influence in DC is absurd, etc. There’s a small group of very progressive Jews like him. But by and large, many American Jews, like most Americans in general, don’t have nuanced views on foreign policy and just sort of vaguely “support Israel” without understanding what that means concretely in terms of war. That said, it is true that if you are in the Jewish community in the US you are never too far removed from someone with concrete ties to Israel, so that makes it more real.

I am trying to decide how to characterize this statement…obnoxious? uninformed? dismissive? elitist? dangerous? Hmmm, I can’t pick just one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Op ever come back? Most everyone has ignored her point altogether, especially the Jewish people who are complaining people didn’t reach out to them.

OP asked if other Jewish people felt the same way she did about non-Jewish friends reaching out. Many Jewish posters "complaining" (as you put it) were responding to OP to say that they didn't share her feelings and would have appreciated outreach from our non-Jewish friends. That's not "ignoring her point altogether;" it's just explaining why some of us don't feel the same way.

OP here. This. I feel like my question was addressed, I gained some different perspective, and the conversation drifted in a way where I am interested in following but felt no need to contribute further.

I’ve always been proudly Jewish and love a lot about my heritage. But I’ve had a lot of friction with other Jews, mainly in my family, as I don’t put up with sexism, even when religiously traditional, and have always been very critical of current Israeli politics. So, I can, somehow, at the same time feel saddened and horrified at the attack on “my” people, saddened and horrified at the situation in general, and annoyed to be assumed by acquaintances to have a connection to Israel, as a political entity that I do not feel.

My DH is Jewish and is adamantly anti-Israel (on a political level) yet at the same time understands what it means to some Jews as a homeland separate from politics. But he has absolutely zero interest in waving the Israeli flag, thinks AIPAC’s influence in DC is absurd, etc. There’s a small group of very progressive Jews like him. But by and large, many American Jews, like most Americans in general, don’t have nuanced views on foreign policy and just sort of vaguely “support Israel” without understanding what that means concretely in terms of war. That said, it is true that if you are in the Jewish community in the US you are never too far removed from someone with concrete ties to Israel, so that makes it more real.

I am trying to decide how to characterize this statement…obnoxious? uninformed? dismissive? elitist? dangerous? Hmmm, I can’t pick just one.

I think you need to use them all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Op ever come back? Most everyone has ignored her point altogether, especially the Jewish people who are complaining people didn’t reach out to them.

OP asked if other Jewish people felt the same way she did about non-Jewish friends reaching out. Many Jewish posters "complaining" (as you put it) were responding to OP to say that they didn't share her feelings and would have appreciated outreach from our non-Jewish friends. That's not "ignoring her point altogether;" it's just explaining why some of us don't feel the same way.

OP here. This. I feel like my question was addressed, I gained some different perspective, and the conversation drifted in a way where I am interested in following but felt no need to contribute further.

I’ve always been proudly Jewish and love a lot about my heritage. But I’ve had a lot of friction with other Jews, mainly in my family, as I don’t put up with sexism, even when religiously traditional, and have always been very critical of current Israeli politics. So, I can, somehow, at the same time feel saddened and horrified at the attack on “my” people, saddened and horrified at the situation in general, and annoyed to be assumed by acquaintances to have a connection to Israel, as a political entity that I do not feel.

It would annoy me to have acquaintances assume my politics as well. That said, I think there is a difference in feeling a connection to Israel as an idea and a connection to Israel in reality. One can feel connected in both ways. Or one can feel like the idea of Israel is important as a homeland or safeguard of world Jewry, without agreeing with the policies of the Israeli government (either toward women and liberal/secular Jews or toward non-Jewish citizens and residents). In my experience, it's very hard to parse that sentiment for non-Jews.

I feel like it's the same as being a patriotic American for our ideals of freedom and equality while at the same time recognizing that our country doesn't live up to those ideals. Except so much of "patriotism" here has been co-opted to mean "Republican" so I guess it's fair to say that it's difficult to understand regardless of your nationality, ethnicity, or religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Op ever come back? Most everyone has ignored her point altogether, especially the Jewish people who are complaining people didn’t reach out to them.

OP asked if other Jewish people felt the same way she did about non-Jewish friends reaching out. Many Jewish posters "complaining" (as you put it) were responding to OP to say that they didn't share her feelings and would have appreciated outreach from our non-Jewish friends. That's not "ignoring her point altogether;" it's just explaining why some of us don't feel the same way.

OP here. This. I feel like my question was addressed, I gained some different perspective, and the conversation drifted in a way where I am interested in following but felt no need to contribute further.

I’ve always been proudly Jewish and love a lot about my heritage. But I’ve had a lot of friction with other Jews, mainly in my family, as I don’t put up with sexism, even when religiously traditional, and have always been very critical of current Israeli politics. So, I can, somehow, at the same time feel saddened and horrified at the attack on “my” people, saddened and horrified at the situation in general, and annoyed to be assumed by acquaintances to have a connection to Israel, as a political entity that I do not feel.

My DH is Jewish and is adamantly anti-Israel (on a political level) yet at the same time understands what it means to some Jews as a homeland separate from politics. But he has absolutely zero interest in waving the Israeli flag, thinks AIPAC’s influence in DC is absurd, etc. There’s a small group of very progressive Jews like him. But by and large, many American Jews, like most Americans in general, don’t have nuanced views on foreign policy and just sort of vaguely “support Israel” without understanding what that means concretely in terms of war. That said, it is true that if you are in the Jewish community in the US you are never too far removed from someone with concrete ties to Israel, so that makes it more real.

I am trying to decide how to characterize this statement…obnoxious? uninformed? dismissive? elitist? dangerous? Hmmm, I can’t pick just one.

I think you need to use them all.

DP. Really? I think it’s pretty uncontroversial that Americans don’t care a lot about foreign affairs or foreign policy.

[Anonymous]

Just like there are Italian Americans who are several generations removed from Italy, don’t speak Italian, and are ignorant of Italian culture, there are Jews in America who are highly assimilated, illiterate in Hebrew, and ignorant of Israeli and or Jewish diasporic cultures. Hamas called for jihad against Jews worldwide, and indeed there were attacks on Jews as Jews globally over the weekend. I think you can judge people on the silence - for not reaching out to you directly. The world would be a lot of healthier if we instead called our friends and said I’m really sad and this is triggering to me because X, and then our friends could listen, give us a hug, instead of being performative on social media.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Op ever come back? Most everyone has ignored her point altogether, especially the Jewish people who are complaining people didn’t reach out to them.

OP asked if other Jewish people felt the same way she did about non-Jewish friends reaching out. Many Jewish posters "complaining" (as you put it) were responding to OP to say that they didn't share her feelings and would have appreciated outreach from our non-Jewish friends. That's not "ignoring her point altogether;" it's just explaining why some of us don't feel the same way.

OP here. This. I feel like my question was addressed, I gained some different perspective, and the conversation drifted in a way where I am interested in following but felt no need to contribute further.

I’ve always been proudly Jewish and love a lot about my heritage. But I’ve had a lot of friction with other Jews, mainly in my family, as I don’t put up with sexism, even when religiously traditional, and have always been very critical of current Israeli politics. So, I can, somehow, at the same time feel saddened and horrified at the attack on “my” people, saddened and horrified at the situation in general, and annoyed to be assumed by acquaintances to have a connection to Israel, as a political entity that I do not feel.

My DH is Jewish and is adamantly anti-Israel (on a political level) yet at the same time understands what it means to some Jews as a homeland separate from politics. But he has absolutely zero interest in waving the Israeli flag, thinks AIPAC’s influence in DC is absurd, etc. There’s a small group of very progressive Jews like him. But by and large, many American Jews, like most Americans in general, don’t have nuanced views on foreign policy and just sort of vaguely “support Israel” without understanding what that means concretely in terms of war. That said, it is true that if you are in the Jewish community in the US you are never too far removed from someone with concrete ties to Israel, so that makes it more real.

I am trying to decide how to characterize this statement…obnoxious? uninformed? dismissive? elitist? dangerous? Hmmm, I can’t pick just one.

What, that most Americans are uniformed about the nuances of foreign policy? That seems pretty non controversial to me.