Offering Support to Jewish Friends

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Jew but I have had a number of Jewish friends over the years and I really don't get the OP.

I'm well versed in the history of the Jewish people and even studied with a consideration toward conversion a couple of decades ago - I instead ended up becoming an atheist. I nevertheless maintain great affinity and sympathy for the Jewish people and the millennia of persecution they have endured.

I'm really surprised that there are Jews who don't give a hoot about the massacre of other Jews anywhere in the world, and who are so frustrated by the sympathy shown them by friends that they feel compelled to complain about that sympathy on an internet board.

I can't help but wonder if OP is a troll.

It's really hyperbolic and simplistic to say/think this. You don't know the tone of the messages they received.

The way that Jews and non-Jews think and feel about Israel is a complicated one, and it's different for everyone. "Support for Israel" has been a sociopolitical cudgel for decades and it's tiresome.

I didn't say anything about support for Israel. I'm better informed on the complexity of what is going on there, especially under Netanyahu who is Trump's brother from another mother, than most Americans will be.

But I don't see much complexity in the concept of offering condolences and support to people whose cousins have just suffered a massacre and who are facing massive rises in antisemitic attacks here in the USA and the horror of people marching in the streets and issuing statements blaming them for the violence perpetrated against them.

Personal communications with people who actually have cousins in Israel is one thing. It seems many people assume that all American Jews have family in Israel and that is yet another assumption about us that is offensive.

We are ALL cousins, for pity's sake.

OP again. Then I assume you are offering your sympathies to all people.

[Anonymous]

I'm not Jewish, but I'm really feeling what's happening in the Middle East on a human level. I lived there for several years, so people who know are offering support and/or asking for my take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's something I can't really discuss in real life.

Over the past few days, I've seen a lot of social media offering support to Jewish friends and posts from Jewish friends suggesting people offer support. People have reached out to me in light of what is happening in Israel that never did during say, the synagogue attacks in the United States or other events that felt much more connected to me as a Jew in the United States. I get the good instinct, which is why I'd never say anything other than thank you. But does this make anyone else uncomfortable? I get that religion and politics are inexorably intertwined in Israel; however, there is something I really don't like about the assumption that, as a Jew, I have a special connection to the country of Israel, any more than I would, Ukraine, for example, where my grandparents actually came from. It seems a really short distance from the dual loyalty trope.

In case this is too vague, I've had texts, for example, from people I've haven't spoken to in months, offering "support to my family in this difficult time."

I agree with you, but I also have seen people in my own Facebook feed posting "We see your silence, non-Jewish friends, and we will remember" status updates so I think that well-meaning people probably have no idea what to do.

+1, I reached out to a couple close-ish (but don't talk daily) friends. Two out of three expressed they are a mess and appreciate the acknowledgement. Maybe they weren't telling me how they really felt, but I don't think so. These things are hard, the "right" thing to do wont' be the same for everyone. So we all do our best and usually saying something is better than saying nothing at all. It sounds like you're giving people grace op, everyone is trying to do their best to acknowledge a really horrific situation as it does sound like on social media at least SOME American Jews were feeling like there was a lot of silence. So folks are trying to make sure it is clear that they recognize the atrocities happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not Jewish, and the difference to me this time is that I have seen social media posts after this attack that specifically say “your silence is noticed”.

FWIW - I think that sentiment is dumb. I think people should not confuse posting on FB with actually doing something. I don't post on FB about anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Jew but I have had a number of Jewish friends over the years and I really don't get the OP.

I'm well versed in the history of the Jewish people and even studied with a consideration toward conversion a couple of decades ago - I instead ended up becoming an atheist. I nevertheless maintain great affinity and sympathy for the Jewish people and the millennia of persecution they have endured.

I'm really surprised that there are Jews who don't give a hoot about the massacre of other Jews anywhere in the world, and who are so frustrated by the sympathy shown them by friends that they feel compelled to complain about that sympathy on an internet board.

I can't help but wonder if OP is a troll.

OP here. It's not that I don't "give a hoot" about the massacre of Jews. IF you are that well versed in Jewish culture, I'm sure you are aware of the dual loyalty trope. I'm not uncomfortable with people expressing their shock and dismay with what is going on in the middle east, I'm uneasy when they assume, as a Jew, I have a special connection to Israel and Israelis that is really different than their connection, which is to react on a purely human level. And yes, in real life I say thank you and move on. But I don't think it's a bad thing to put out there that that this is a very complicated issue, and your message of support may not land well with everyone. Like some other posters have alluded to, there's no one good answer or response to this situation, so perhaps blanket facebook messages (at least ones that are telling other people what to do or feel... and aren't about your own feelings) or texts to people you aren't that close to (but happen to be Jewish) isn't the best approach.

Well the Hamas charter says to kill all Jews everywhere - so I guess you could also think of it as a friend reaching out and acknowledging that they are sorry that there is a terrorist group out there that wants to kill you if they could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not Jewish, and the difference to me this time is that I have seen social media posts after this attack that specifically say “your silence is noticed”.

FWIW - I think that sentiment is dumb. I think people should not confuse posting on FB with actually doing something. I don't post on FB about anything.

I’m the PP you quoted and I agree. I don’t post on social media much these days. I have reached out directly to Jewish friends to share my support. I would like the Jewish girl who lived down the hall from me sophomore year to also know that I support her but I’m not compelled to update Facebook.

[Anonymous]

People see you as a proxy for people whom you share a religion with. For example, every muslim was considered suspicious after 9/11. It sucks and needs to change. Its not different than people assuming you know every single person with last name Smith if you've the same last name, even if there are several millions of them and you've no connection at all.

[Anonymous]

I reached out to a friend who has family in Israel but I think that's different.

[Anonymous]

Jew here. My non-Jewish friends and family didn't reach out to me after Pittsburgh or so far related to Israel, even though I work in a Jewish institution and regularly attend synagogue. My take after Pittsburgh was that, of course, everyone was appalled by what had happened, so I didn't really need anyone to specifically check on me, because I could assume they weren't supportive of massacring people. Would it have been nice for someone to ask me how I was doing after Pittsburgh? Absolutely. But I wasn't really hurt that nobody did, because there was no doubt in my mind that they were horrified.

The difference I feel with regard to the current situation in Israel is that not only has nobody checked in to see how I'm feeling about the situation or how my friends and coworkers who live there are doing, but that so many of my non-Jewish friends (and honestly some of my lefty/DSA Jewish friends) are offering up "nuanced" takes on the violence, as if there can be any justification for Hamas' slaughter. SO MANY of them are posting about oppression in Gaza without a WORD of sympathy for behe@ded Israeli babies or r@ped Israeli women or mut!lated Israeli grandparents. And saying "oh, Hamas is doing this because of XYZ Israeli policy" is f*ing excuses and victim blaming. There is NO excuse.

We can talk about Israeli policy toward Gaza and we can talk about US and international aid and we can talk about what Palestinian freedom without terrorism would/could possibly look like (not now, because I don't have the space in my heart for it), but we need to also talk about Jewish and Israeli pain. You want to add nuance to this war? Let's talk about the complicated relationship between Israel and the Jewish Diaspora. Let's talk about the balance between security and freedom. Let's talk about how we didn't want to be judged by President Trump and maybe Israel doesn't want to be judged by Bibi. Let's talk about how I have so many liberal Jewish friends (myself included) who support human rights and don't like the right wing government in Israel and also need Israel to exist, because of the Holocaust and because of Charlottesville and because of Pittsburgh. And I have so many liberal Jewish friends who have to bury their Jewishness in certain liberal spaces in order to advocate for others, because Jewish = Israel in those spaces and intersectionality is great, unless it's Jewish. It's HARD to want ALL THE THINGS at once, but here we are.

So, yes, I think the non-Jews need to say something and check in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Jew but I have had a number of Jewish friends over the years and I really don't get the OP.

I'm well versed in the history of the Jewish people and even studied with a consideration toward conversion a couple of decades ago - I instead ended up becoming an atheist. I nevertheless maintain great affinity and sympathy for the Jewish people and the millennia of persecution they have endured.

I'm really surprised that there are Jews who don't give a hoot about the massacre of other Jews anywhere in the world, and who are so frustrated by the sympathy shown them by friends that they feel compelled to complain about that sympathy on an internet board.

I can't help but wonder if OP is a troll.

It's really hyperbolic and simplistic to say/think this. You don't know the tone of the messages they received.

The way that Jews and non-Jews think and feel about Israel is a complicated one, and it's different for everyone. "Support for Israel" has been a sociopolitical cudgel for decades and it's tiresome.

DP, yes, feelings about Israel vary among Jews (and non-Jews), but I don't know a single Jew who isn't mourning the deaths of the 900+ (last time I checked) Jews in Israel. PP isn't talking about Israeli politics; she's talking about human lives. If this had happened to Jews in London or Ethiopia, "feelings about Israel" wouldn't even come up, but because it's Jews in Israel, we can "complicate the narrative?" Nope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jew here. My non-Jewish friends and family didn't reach out to me after Pittsburgh or so far related to Israel, even though I work in a Jewish institution and regularly attend synagogue. My take after Pittsburgh was that, of course, everyone was appalled by what had happened, so I didn't really need anyone to specifically check on me, because I could assume they weren't supportive of massacring people. Would it have been nice for someone to ask me how I was doing after Pittsburgh? Absolutely. But I wasn't really hurt that nobody did, because there was no doubt in my mind that they were horrified.

The difference I feel with regard to the current situation in Israel is that not only has nobody checked in to see how I'm feeling about the situation or how my friends and coworkers who live there are doing, but that so many of my non-Jewish friends (and honestly some of my lefty/DSA Jewish friends) are offering up "nuanced" takes on the violence, as if there can be any justification for Hamas' slaughter. SO MANY of them are posting about oppression in Gaza without a WORD of sympathy for behe@ded Israeli babies or r@ped Israeli women or mut!lated Israeli grandparents. And saying "oh, Hamas is doing this because of XYZ Israeli policy" is f*ing excuses and victim blaming. There is NO excuse.

We can talk about Israeli policy toward Gaza and we can talk about US and international aid and we can talk about what Palestinian freedom without terrorism would/could possibly look like (not now, because I don't have the space in my heart for it), but we need to also talk about Jewish and Israeli pain. You want to add nuance to this war? Let's talk about the complicated relationship between Israel and the Jewish Diaspora. Let's talk about the balance between security and freedom. Let's talk about how we didn't want to be judged by President Trump and maybe Israel doesn't want to be judged by Bibi. Let's talk about how I have so many liberal Jewish friends (myself included) who support human rights and don't like the right wing government in Israel and also need Israel to exist, because of the Holocaust and because of Charlottesville and because of Pittsburgh. And I have so many liberal Jewish friends who have to bury their Jewishness in certain liberal spaces in order to advocate for others, because Jewish = Israel in those spaces and intersectionality is great, unless it's Jewish. It's HARD to want ALL THE THINGS at once, but here we are.

So, yes, I think the non-Jews need to say something and check in.

I'm a Jew and I agree with all of the above comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's something I can't really discuss in real life.

Over the past few days, I've seen a lot of social media offering support to Jewish friends and posts from Jewish friends suggesting people offer support. People have reached out to me in light of what is happening in Israel that never did during say, the synagogue attacks in the United States or other events that felt much more connected to me as a Jew in the United States. I get the good instinct, which is why I'd never say anything other than thank you. But does this make anyone else uncomfortable? I get that religion and politics are inexorably intertwined in Israel; however, there is something I really don't like about the assumption that, as a Jew, I have a special connection to the country of Israel, any more than I would, Ukraine, for example, where my grandparents actually came from. It seems a really short distance from the dual loyalty trope.

In case this is too vague, I've had texts, for example, from people I've haven't spoken to in months, offering "support to my family in this difficult time."

OP, I appreciate that you needed a safe, anonymous space to process your feelings about this outreach and I'm glad you found it here.

Personally, I've had the opposite reaction. Only my other Jewish friends have reached out to me to see how I'm doing in the wake of everything. We have been incredibly supportive of each other and it's nice to have a shared understanding (more or less) of what Israel means realistically and metaphorically and a shared understanding of Jewish peoplehood and interconnectedness. I would love to hear from people in my non-Jewish circles (either directly reaching out to me or posting something on Instagram that isn't about how Hamas is doing this for reasons), but it would also be a little exhausting to have to explain how Jewish community works and why this is affecting me so badly when I "only" have friends there, no direct family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Jew but I have had a number of Jewish friends over the years and I really don't get the OP.

I'm well versed in the history of the Jewish people and even studied with a consideration toward conversion a couple of decades ago - I instead ended up becoming an atheist. I nevertheless maintain great affinity and sympathy for the Jewish people and the millennia of persecution they have endured.

I'm really surprised that there are Jews who don't give a hoot about the massacre of other Jews anywhere in the world, and who are so frustrated by the sympathy shown them by friends that they feel compelled to complain about that sympathy on an internet board.

I can't help but wonder if OP is a troll.

OP here. It's not that I don't "give a hoot" about the massacre of Jews. IF you are that well versed in Jewish culture, I'm sure you are aware of the dual loyalty trope. I'm not uncomfortable with people expressing their shock and dismay with what is going on in the middle east, I'm uneasy when they assume, as a Jew, I have a special connection to Israel and Israelis that is really different than their connection, which is to react on a purely human level. And yes, in real life I say thank you and move on. But I don't think it's a bad thing to put out there that that this is a very complicated issue, and your message of support may not land well with everyone. Like some other posters have alluded to, there's no one good answer or response to this situation, so perhaps blanket facebook messages (at least ones that are telling other people what to do or feel... and aren't about your own feelings) or texts to people you aren't that close to (but happen to be Jewish) isn't the best approach.

OP- I am Jewish and I agree with you. Like you I just say thank you and the situation is horrible there and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Jew but I have had a number of Jewish friends over the years and I really don't get the OP.

I'm well versed in the history of the Jewish people and even studied with a consideration toward conversion a couple of decades ago - I instead ended up becoming an atheist. I nevertheless maintain great affinity and sympathy for the Jewish people and the millennia of persecution they have endured.

I'm really surprised that there are Jews who don't give a hoot about the massacre of other Jews anywhere in the world, and who are so frustrated by the sympathy shown them by friends that they feel compelled to complain about that sympathy on an internet board.

I can't help but wonder if OP is a troll.

It's really hyperbolic and simplistic to say/think this. You don't know the tone of the messages they received.

The way that Jews and non-Jews think and feel about Israel is a complicated one, and it's different for everyone. "Support for Israel" has been a sociopolitical cudgel for decades and it's tiresome.

DP, yes, feelings about Israel vary among Jews (and non-Jews), but I don't know a single Jew who isn't mourning the deaths of the 900+ (last time I checked) Jews in Israel. PP isn't talking about Israeli politics; she's talking about human lives. If this had happened to Jews in London or Ethiopia, "feelings about Israel" wouldn't even come up, but because it's Jews in Israel, we can "complicate the narrative?" Nope.

The attack was because they were Israeli Jews, living on land the Palestinians consider to be theirs. This is not an excuse or rationalization or anything like that. But, this isn’t just another terrible anti-semetic attack anywhere in the world, like Pittsburgh was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not Jewish, and the difference to me this time is that I have seen social media posts after this attack that specifically say “your silence is noticed”.

FWIW - I think that sentiment is dumb. I think people should not confuse posting on FB with actually doing something. I don't post on FB about anything.

I’m the PP you quoted and I agree. I don’t post on social media much these days. I have reached out directly to Jewish friends to share my support. I would like the Jewish girl who lived down the hall from me sophomore year to also know that I support her but I’m not compelled to update Facebook.

+1 I have reached out to close friends I talk to bit I don't engage in politics or performative posts on FB, period. I also don't want to invite a "debate" and deal with comments.