Offering Support to Jewish Friends

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not raising the issue on social media for the exact reasons you mentioned. I have shown support in conversations with people I speak to regularly, but for a larger audience that I would not normally have a personal conversation with, no.

This. Social media is horrible for many reasons. The fact that many people are still latching onto the flawed concept that one post will strike just the right tone for hundreds or thousands of followers is one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not Jewish, and the difference to me this time is that I have seen social media posts after this attack that specifically say “your silence is noticed”.

I remember a world not too long ago when it was concerning if you didn't have a blue and yellow flag on your Twitter account or a yard sign.

This is not everyone's world. You don't have to live in it.

[Anonymous]

I'm not a Jew but I have had a number of Jewish friends over the years and I really don't get the OP.

I'm well versed in the history of the Jewish people and even studied with a consideration toward conversion a couple of decades ago - I instead ended up becoming an atheist. I nevertheless maintain great affinity and sympathy for the Jewish people and the millennia of persecution they have endured.

I'm really surprised that there are Jews who don't give a hoot about the massacre of other Jews anywhere in the world, and who are so frustrated by the sympathy shown them by friends that they feel compelled to complain about that sympathy on an internet board.

I can't help but wonder if OP is a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Jew but I have had a number of Jewish friends over the years and I really don't get the OP.

I'm well versed in the history of the Jewish people and even studied with a consideration toward conversion a couple of decades ago - I instead ended up becoming an atheist. I nevertheless maintain great affinity and sympathy for the Jewish people and the millennia of persecution they have endured.

I'm really surprised that there are Jews who don't give a hoot about the massacre of other Jews anywhere in the world, and who are so frustrated by the sympathy shown them by friends that they feel compelled to complain about that sympathy on an internet board.

I can't help but wonder if OP is a troll.

It's really hyperbolic and simplistic to say/think this. You don't know the tone of the messages they received.

The way that Jews and non-Jews think and feel about Israel is a complicated one, and it's different for everyone. "Support for Israel" has been a sociopolitical cudgel for decades and it's tiresome.

[Anonymous]

Social media is a performative echo chamber that is always about the person posting.

Reach out to people you know well in real life is my take.

[Anonymous]

Do you have a big issue with the ADL's blue square campaign asking people to #standuptoJewishhate ?

This is a leading Jewish organization seeking to instill in Americans a proactive stance toward the Jewish community. Are they wrong to do this?

I'm not a Jew, but it just happens that this morning I have been perusing the website of my local synagogue to learn about volunteer and donation opportunities and to contact the rabbi with questions about how I can best express my condolences and solidarity to that community.

Am I an idiot? Would it be preferable for me to just NGAF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Jew but I have had a number of Jewish friends over the years and I really don't get the OP.

I'm well versed in the history of the Jewish people and even studied with a consideration toward conversion a couple of decades ago - I instead ended up becoming an atheist. I nevertheless maintain great affinity and sympathy for the Jewish people and the millennia of persecution they have endured.

I'm really surprised that there are Jews who don't give a hoot about the massacre of other Jews anywhere in the world, and who are so frustrated by the sympathy shown them by friends that they feel compelled to complain about that sympathy on an internet board.

I can't help but wonder if OP is a troll.

It's really hyperbolic and simplistic to say/think this. You don't know the tone of the messages they received.

The way that Jews and non-Jews think and feel about Israel is a complicated one, and it's different for everyone. "Support for Israel" has been a sociopolitical cudgel for decades and it's tiresome.

I didn't say anything about support for Israel. I'm better informed on the complexity of what is going on there, especially under Netanyahu who is Trump's brother from another mother, than most Americans will be.

But I don't see much complexity in the concept of offering condolences and support to people whose cousins have just suffered a massacre and who are facing massive rises in antisemitic attacks here in the USA and the horror of people marching in the streets and issuing statements blaming them for the violence perpetrated against them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Jew but I have had a number of Jewish friends over the years and I really don't get the OP.

I'm well versed in the history of the Jewish people and even studied with a consideration toward conversion a couple of decades ago - I instead ended up becoming an atheist. I nevertheless maintain great affinity and sympathy for the Jewish people and the millennia of persecution they have endured.

I'm really surprised that there are Jews who don't give a hoot about the massacre of other Jews anywhere in the world, and who are so frustrated by the sympathy shown them by friends that they feel compelled to complain about that sympathy on an internet board.

I can't help but wonder if OP is a troll.

OP here. It's not that I don't "give a hoot" about the massacre of Jews. IF you are that well versed in Jewish culture, I'm sure you are aware of the dual loyalty trope. I'm not uncomfortable with people expressing their shock and dismay with what is going on in the middle east, I'm uneasy when they assume, as a Jew, I have a special connection to Israel and Israelis that is really different than their connection, which is to react on a purely human level. And yes, in real life I say thank you and move on. But I don't think it's a bad thing to put out there that that this is a very complicated issue, and your message of support may not land well with everyone. Like some other posters have alluded to, there's no one good answer or response to this situation, so perhaps blanket facebook messages (at least ones that are telling other people what to do or feel... and aren't about your own feelings) or texts to people you aren't that close to (but happen to be Jewish) isn't the best approach.

[Anonymous]

OP, I did the opposite and posted on social media after the synagogue attack and reached out to friends then and after other US antisemitism attacks because we live here and it is grossly unacceptable. I have not done so for this because we’re not in Israel and personally I am afraid of it veering into politics. That doesn’t mean I’m not gutted and disgusted by the atrocity.

A Black friend said to me that she felt white friends who reached out during the protests were performative, so I took note. Obviously not everyone feels the same.

A writer on IG called out the community yesterday for their silence, and a bunch of posts were hastily put up. She said that a Jewish organization should track which authors had been silent and stop promoting them. This tracking and asking for allegiance is deeply problematic for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Jew but I have had a number of Jewish friends over the years and I really don't get the OP.

I'm well versed in the history of the Jewish people and even studied with a consideration toward conversion a couple of decades ago - I instead ended up becoming an atheist. I nevertheless maintain great affinity and sympathy for the Jewish people and the millennia of persecution they have endured.

I'm really surprised that there are Jews who don't give a hoot about the massacre of other Jews anywhere in the world, and who are so frustrated by the sympathy shown them by friends that they feel compelled to complain about that sympathy on an internet board.

I can't help but wonder if OP is a troll.

OP here. It's not that I don't "give a hoot" about the massacre of Jews. IF you are that well versed in Jewish culture, I'm sure you are aware of the dual loyalty trope. I'm not uncomfortable with people expressing their shock and dismay with what is going on in the middle east, I'm uneasy when they assume, as a Jew, I have a special connection to Israel and Israelis that is really different than their connection, which is to react on a purely human level. And yes, in real life I say thank you and move on. But I don't think it's a bad thing to put out there that that this is a very complicated issue, and your message of support may not land well with everyone. Like some other posters have alluded to, there's no one good answer or response to this situation, so perhaps blanket facebook messages (at least ones that are telling other people what to do or feel... and aren't about your own feelings) or texts to people you aren't that close to (but happen to be Jewish) isn't the best approach.

So it's just the Israel thing? If hundreds of Jews had been massacred in some other location, condolences would be welcomed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Jew but I have had a number of Jewish friends over the years and I really don't get the OP.

I'm well versed in the history of the Jewish people and even studied with a consideration toward conversion a couple of decades ago - I instead ended up becoming an atheist. I nevertheless maintain great affinity and sympathy for the Jewish people and the millennia of persecution they have endured.

I'm really surprised that there are Jews who don't give a hoot about the massacre of other Jews anywhere in the world, and who are so frustrated by the sympathy shown them by friends that they feel compelled to complain about that sympathy on an internet board.

I can't help but wonder if OP is a troll.

It's really hyperbolic and simplistic to say/think this. You don't know the tone of the messages they received.

The way that Jews and non-Jews think and feel about Israel is a complicated one, and it's different for everyone. "Support for Israel" has been a sociopolitical cudgel for decades and it's tiresome.

I didn't say anything about support for Israel. I'm better informed on the complexity of what is going on there, especially under Netanyahu who is Trump's brother from another mother, than most Americans will be.

But I don't see much complexity in the concept of offering condolences and support to people whose cousins have just suffered a massacre and who are facing massive rises in antisemitic attacks here in the USA and the horror of people marching in the streets and issuing statements blaming them for the violence perpetrated against them.

Personal communications with people who actually have cousins in Israel is one thing. It seems many people assume that all American Jews have family in Israel and that is yet another assumption about us that is offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Jew but I have had a number of Jewish friends over the years and I really don't get the OP.

I'm well versed in the history of the Jewish people and even studied with a consideration toward conversion a couple of decades ago - I instead ended up becoming an atheist. I nevertheless maintain great affinity and sympathy for the Jewish people and the millennia of persecution they have endured.

I'm really surprised that there are Jews who don't give a hoot about the massacre of other Jews anywhere in the world, and who are so frustrated by the sympathy shown them by friends that they feel compelled to complain about that sympathy on an internet board.

I can't help but wonder if OP is a troll.

It's really hyperbolic and simplistic to say/think this. You don't know the tone of the messages they received.

The way that Jews and non-Jews think and feel about Israel is a complicated one, and it's different for everyone. "Support for Israel" has been a sociopolitical cudgel for decades and it's tiresome.

I didn't say anything about support for Israel. I'm better informed on the complexity of what is going on there, especially under Netanyahu who is Trump's brother from another mother, than most Americans will be.

But I don't see much complexity in the concept of offering condolences and support to people whose cousins have just suffered a massacre and who are facing massive rises in antisemitic attacks here in the USA and the horror of people marching in the streets and issuing statements blaming them for the violence perpetrated against them.

Personal communications with people who actually have cousins in Israel is one thing. It seems many people assume that all American Jews have family in Israel and that is yet another assumption about us that is offensive.

We are ALL cousins, for pity's sake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have family in Israel so I had appreciated friends saying to me: saying wow what is going on is horrible and how is your family. I see the Hamas supporters in the politics thread here that I should stop reading and I’m glad to know I’m not friends with people like that.

I know it's your pain speaking, but there are no Hamas supporters on DCUM. There are people who feel for non-violent Gaza Palestinians used as human shields, for whom Hamas cares nothing. It's like feeling sympathy for Russians who didn't want a war either but who are still used as cannon fodder. You can denounce the Russian government, the Israeli far-right, the Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist networks... but it's only human to spare a thought for lives destroyed on all sides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's something I can't really discuss in real life.

Over the past few days, I've seen a lot of social media offering support to Jewish friends and posts from Jewish friends suggesting people offer support. People have reached out to me in light of what is happening in Israel that never did during say, the synagogue attacks in the United States or other events that felt much more connected to me as a Jew in the United States. I get the good instinct, which is why I'd never say anything other than thank you. But does this make anyone else uncomfortable? I get that religion and politics are inexorably intertwined in Israel; however, there is something I really don't like about the assumption that, as a Jew, I have a special connection to the country of Israel, any more than I would, Ukraine, for example, where my grandparents actually came from. It seems a really short distance from the dual loyalty trope.

In case this is too vague, I've had texts, for example, from people I've haven't spoken to in months, offering "support to my family in this difficult time."

I agree with you, but I also have seen people in my own Facebook feed posting "We see your silence, non-Jewish friends, and we will remember" status updates so I think that well-meaning people probably have no idea what to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have family in Israel so I had appreciated friends saying to me: saying wow what is going on is horrible and how is your family. I see the Hamas supporters in the politics thread here that I should stop reading and I’m glad to know I’m not friends with people like that.

I know it's your pain speaking, but there are no Hamas supporters on DCUM. There are people who feel for non-violent Gaza Palestinians used as human shields, for whom Hamas cares nothing. It's like feeling sympathy for Russians who didn't want a war either but who are still used as cannon fodder. You can denounce the Russian government, the Israeli far-right, the Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist networks... but it's only human to spare a thought for lives destroyed on all sides.

I think you’re in the wrong thread …

Anyway OP, I get what you’re saying about the dual loyalty thing.