It is so much easier to be a good parent when not working

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, I was forced to quit when I had my first, born with medical needs. It was either me or my husband, and he was further ahead in his career making real money, and I was just starting out, making none. Killed my career right before it started.

But that's the price of taking the best care of my child. Doctors said he might need to go to a special school, and were initially very pessimistic about walking and talking. And 18 years later, here he is, about to move in to his college dorm.

It was worth it.

I am so happy for your DC! I hope he has an awesome year in school. Way to go mom!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well yeah of course. Being a stay at home mom is a full-time job. But being a work out of the home means you have two full time jobs which is exhausting.

A SAHM is not full time for kids in school.

Of course it can be. Wealthy single grown adults actually hire full time cooks/housekeepers so obviously there’s enough work there for a household with kids. Cooking meals, laundry, cleaning, doing yard work, managing kids and household appointments, bills. If someone chooses to do all this themselves it can easily be 40 hours a week. Heck you can even grow your own vegetables. Mostly we outsource cooking these days to restaurants.

It’s not for everyone (and not me) but there’s plenty of work to sustain that.

That’s a stretch but if it makes you feel better.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well yeah of course. Being a stay at home mom is a full-time job. But being a work out of the home means you have two full time jobs which is exhausting.

Being a sahm to school aged is NOT a full time job. I think that’s been clearly established.
Which is ok.

It depends. You can be an intense cook, cleaner, gardener, handyperson, room parent, helping neighbor or family, etc.

Right? Often jobs are as intense as you make them. I certainly wasn’t working intensely for 8-9 hours straight at my paid employment with zero downtime/breaks/social interaction. I suspect a lot of other professional jobs are similar. The only full-time thing about it in many seasons was the fact that I had to be physically present full-time to take care of any tasks as they came up (and those tasks were often mundane and easy and quite frankly pointless). There were of course busy times where I worked my butt off, but that was not the norm.

I feel like maybe people don’t realize they hold SAHM as a “job” to a completely different standard than they might hold their own paid employment. Because I don’t think my experience was totally unusual.

You were lucky to have an easy job. But when so. Being away from your home for 8 hours plus commute and having to spend your remaining waking hours caring for a child/children is exhausting

That’s the thing - you can do just as much stuff as a sahm if you work and have school aged kids - esp if you have location flex (which frankly I would not take a job without). You’re just more burned out.
But the ‘sahm to school aged kids is a full time job’ people need to just - stop.

You’re missing the point. You can do just as much as SOME stay at home moms, but not the ones who actually treat it as a full time job. And the stuff you do undoubtedly won’t be to the same standard. And that’s fine, but why are you insisting that other women don’t get to call their job a job?

You cannot do as much housework as a SAHM can, that is absolutely true. And your toilets may certainly be dirtier and your ironing may be more erratic.

But for a school age child who is in school in the normal school hours, you can easily do just as much *parenting* at the same “standard” whatever precisely that means.

What do you mean? Do you mean that working moms spend the same amount of hours with their kid per day as a SAHM? I don’t see how that’s possible if the mom is working 40 hours per week, so I may be misunderstanding.

I actually think a dime working moms do spend the same hours some more. It depends.

Mom’s shops, cook, clean… while kids are off playing or watching tv or napping or at school or pre school..

So yes they can spend equal or even more hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well yeah of course. Being a stay at home mom is a full-time job. But being a work out of the home means you have two full time jobs which is exhausting.

Being a sahm to school aged is NOT a full time job. I think that’s been clearly established.
Which is ok.

It depends. You can be an intense cook, cleaner, gardener, handyperson, room parent, helping neighbor or family, etc.

Right? Often jobs are as intense as you make them. I certainly wasn’t working intensely for 8-9 hours straight at my paid employment with zero downtime/breaks/social interaction. I suspect a lot of other professional jobs are similar. The only full-time thing about it in many seasons was the fact that I had to be physically present full-time to take care of any tasks as they came up (and those tasks were often mundane and easy and quite frankly pointless). There were of course busy times where I worked my butt off, but that was not the norm.

I feel like maybe people don’t realize they hold SAHM as a “job” to a completely different standard than they might hold their own paid employment. Because I don’t think my experience was totally unusual.

You were lucky to have an easy job. But when so. Being away from your home for 8 hours plus commute and having to spend your remaining waking hours caring for a child/children is exhausting

That’s the thing - you can do just as much stuff as a sahm if you work and have school aged kids - esp if you have location flex (which frankly I would not take a job without). You’re just more burned out.
But the ‘sahm to school aged kids is a full time job’ people need to just - stop.

You’re missing the point. You can do just as much as SOME stay at home moms, but not the ones who actually treat it as a full time job. And the stuff you do undoubtedly won’t be to the same standard. And that’s fine, but why are you insisting that other women don’t get to call their job a job?

You cannot do as much housework as a SAHM can, that is absolutely true. And your toilets may certainly be dirtier and your ironing may be more erratic.

But for a school age child who is in school in the normal school hours, you can easily do just as much *parenting* at the same “standard” whatever precisely that means.

What do you mean? Do you mean that working moms spend the same amount of hours with their kid per day as a SAHM? I don’t see how that’s possible if the mom is working 40 hours per week, so I may be misunderstanding.

I wft and this is basically true. I either drop kids at 830a, run home (as in go for a run but end up at home), shower and online on calls by 930, then dh gets kids and they are home by 530. Or dh drops them and I am online by 830-9 then pick them up at 5. I would not get them earlier very often even if I didn’t work bc it’s better for them to be playing basketball or doing music classes at school than in our small apt (nyc). We log off early on Fridays so I get them at 315 that day. I do do a lot of work after they go to bed and I am tired in the evening so prob not gazing into their eyes and leaning into further enrichment (they are also tired and typically watch a little tv or we watch together) so I’m def not bringing my a game to the party as much as I would be if I’d chilled all day. That is true

What about summer? Do you take off June, July and August?

SAHM’s are not with their kids all day. Kids are out playing or at camp or sleeping in or watching tv. Some go to camp everyday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well yeah of course. Being a stay at home mom is a full-time job. But being a work out of the home means you have two full time jobs which is exhausting.

Being a sahm to school aged is NOT a full time job. I think that’s been clearly established.
Which is ok.

It depends. You can be an intense cook, cleaner, gardener, handyperson, room parent, helping neighbor or family, etc.

Right? Often jobs are as intense as you make them. I certainly wasn’t working intensely for 8-9 hours straight at my paid employment with zero downtime/breaks/social interaction. I suspect a lot of other professional jobs are similar. The only full-time thing about it in many seasons was the fact that I had to be physically present full-time to take care of any tasks as they came up (and those tasks were often mundane and easy and quite frankly pointless). There were of course busy times where I worked my butt off, but that was not the norm.

I feel like maybe people don’t realize they hold SAHM as a “job” to a completely different standard than they might hold their own paid employment. Because I don’t think my experience was totally unusual.

You were lucky to have an easy job. But when so. Being away from your home for 8 hours plus commute and having to spend your remaining waking hours caring for a child/children is exhausting

That’s the thing - you can do just as much stuff as a sahm if you work and have school aged kids - esp if you have location flex (which frankly I would not take a job without). You’re just more burned out.
But the ‘sahm to school aged kids is a full time job’ people need to just - stop.

You’re missing the point. You can do just as much as SOME stay at home moms, but not the ones who actually treat it as a full time job. And the stuff you do undoubtedly won’t be to the same standard. And that’s fine, but why are you insisting that other women don’t get to call their job a job?

You cannot do as much housework as a SAHM can, that is absolutely true. And your toilets may certainly be dirtier and your ironing may be more erratic.

But for a school age child who is in school in the normal school hours, you can easily do just as much *parenting* at the same “standard” whatever precisely that means.

What do you mean? Do you mean that working moms spend the same amount of hours with their kid per day as a SAHM? I don’t see how that’s possible if the mom is working 40 hours per week, so I may be misunderstanding.

If you have a job where you physically have to be in an office from 9-5, 5 days a week, or a job where you must complete your work during those same hours, then yeah, you're not going to see your ES kids as much as a SAHM. But there are so so so many alternative set-ups these days -- early start times, WFH, flexible jobs where it doesn't so much matter when you do your work, or specifically where you do not need to be working from like 3-5, and on and on. The school day is pretty long! For you to say that you don't see "how that's possible" makes me think you must not know any working people these days.

And the PP asking about summer??... do your ES kids hang out with their mom all summer? The ES kids in my area, SAHM or not, go to day camps, specialty camps, several weeks of overnight camp, vacations...

Sure, the kids of SAHMs all go to camps all summer, and you personally have knowledge of this. Get real. And the other kids go precisely BECAUSE their parents are working, you nincompoop 🙄.

I'm the "nincompoop" who wrote this. I live in a suburb of Chicago on the Northshore. My DD is going into 4th grade, there were three third grade classes at her public school, each with about 18 kids. The radius of where the families live is small, we know each other well; she had three other girls from her class this year that live just on our very block, and at least 2/3 of our neighborhood have kids at her ES. Summer plans were discussed ad nauseam throughout the month of May at soccer games, school events, around the neighborhood, dance recitals. Pretty much everybody around here, including families with SAHMs, does camp, what can I tell you. Overnight camp is extremely popular too. Three girls in DD's day camp group of 10 were from her third grade class. One has a mom who works. The other two have SAHMs, and one of them did 6 weeks of camp, the other did 8. The SAHM of another rising fourth grader on our street sent her DD to an overnight camp in Wisconsin for 8 weeks. The younger sibs of all three of these women (all going into 2nd grade) similarly did all-day daycamps. A teacher on our block with summers off sent her three kids to camp all summer (oldest at overnight camp). I could go on and on. I live in an area where the SAHM's can afford camp, and these camps are fun. This is what the kids here do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well yeah of course. Being a stay at home mom is a full-time job. But being a work out of the home means you have two full time jobs which is exhausting.

Being a sahm to school aged is NOT a full time job. I think that’s been clearly established.
Which is ok.

It depends. You can be an intense cook, cleaner, gardener, handyperson, room parent, helping neighbor or family, etc.

Right? Often jobs are as intense as you make them. I certainly wasn’t working intensely for 8-9 hours straight at my paid employment with zero downtime/breaks/social interaction. I suspect a lot of other professional jobs are similar. The only full-time thing about it in many seasons was the fact that I had to be physically present full-time to take care of any tasks as they came up (and those tasks were often mundane and easy and quite frankly pointless). There were of course busy times where I worked my butt off, but that was not the norm.

I feel like maybe people don’t realize they hold SAHM as a “job” to a completely different standard than they might hold their own paid employment. Because I don’t think my experience was totally unusual.

You were lucky to have an easy job. But when so. Being away from your home for 8 hours plus commute and having to spend your remaining waking hours caring for a child/children is exhausting

That’s the thing - you can do just as much stuff as a sahm if you work and have school aged kids - esp if you have location flex (which frankly I would not take a job without). You’re just more burned out.
But the ‘sahm to school aged kids is a full time job’ people need to just - stop.

You’re missing the point. You can do just as much as SOME stay at home moms, but not the ones who actually treat it as a full time job. And the stuff you do undoubtedly won’t be to the same standard. And that’s fine, but why are you insisting that other women don’t get to call their job a job?

You cannot do as much housework as a SAHM can, that is absolutely true. And your toilets may certainly be dirtier and your ironing may be more erratic.

But for a school age child who is in school in the normal school hours, you can easily do just as much *parenting* at the same “standard” whatever precisely that means.

What do you mean? Do you mean that working moms spend the same amount of hours with their kid per day as a SAHM? I don’t see how that’s possible if the mom is working 40 hours per week, so I may be misunderstanding.

If you have a job where you physically have to be in an office from 9-5, 5 days a week, or a job where you must complete your work during those same hours, then yeah, you're not going to see your ES kids as much as a SAHM. But there are so so so many alternative set-ups these days -- early start times, WFH, flexible jobs where it doesn't so much matter when you do your work, or specifically where you do not need to be working from like 3-5, and on and on. The school day is pretty long! For you to say that you don't see "how that's possible" makes me think you must not know any working people these days.

And the PP asking about summer??... do your ES kids hang out with their mom all summer? The ES kids in my area, SAHM or not, go to day camps, specialty camps, several weeks of overnight camp, vacations...

Sure, the kids of SAHMs all go to camps all summer, and you personally have knowledge of this. Get real. And the other kids go precisely BECAUSE their parents are working, you nincompoop 🙄.

I'm the "nincompoop" who wrote this. I live in a suburb of Chicago on the Northshore. My DD is going into 4th grade, there were three third grade classes at her public school, each with about 18 kids. The radius of where the families live is small, we know each other well; she had three other girls from her class this year that live just on our very block, and at least 2/3 of our neighborhood have kids at her ES. Summer plans were discussed ad nauseam throughout the month of May at soccer games, school events, around the neighborhood, dance recitals. Pretty much everybody around here, including families with SAHMs, does camp, what can I tell you. Overnight camp is extremely popular too. Three girls in DD's day camp group of 10 were from her third grade class. One has a mom who works. The other two have SAHMs, and one of them did 6 weeks of camp, the other did 8. The SAHM of another rising fourth grader on our street sent her DD to an overnight camp in Wisconsin for 8 weeks. The younger sibs of all three of these women (all going into 2nd grade) similarly did all-day daycamps. A teacher on our block with summers off sent her three kids to camp all summer (oldest at overnight camp). I could go on and on. I live in an area where the SAHM's can afford camp, and these camps are fun. This is what the kids here do.

Notwithstanding your post, I think it’s fair to say that the majority of SAHMs are spending more time with their kids this summer than working moms. Because, math. Also, researchers have studied this and concluded that SAHMs spend more time with their kids. Right? I mean, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills on a very basic proposition.

I guess in your neck of the woods, every kid with a stay at home mom goes to camp every day of the summer from (at least) 9 to 5. But you can’t possibly think that’s a general proposition. And you must agree that you talking about a very narrow portion of children. It’s not like there are sleepaway camps for 2 year olds.

So let’s start there. Can we at least agree that during the summer, a SAHM of a 2 year old is spending more time with her child than a working mom with a 2 year old? Or do you honestly think that SAHM is sending her 2 year old to camp from 9 to 5? To an overnight camp for 8 weeks? If so please let us know the name of these “camps”!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well yeah of course. Being a stay at home mom is a full-time job. But being a work out of the home means you have two full time jobs which is exhausting.

Being a sahm to school aged is NOT a full time job. I think that’s been clearly established.
Which is ok.

It depends. You can be an intense cook, cleaner, gardener, handyperson, room parent, helping neighbor or family, etc.

Right? Often jobs are as intense as you make them. I certainly wasn’t working intensely for 8-9 hours straight at my paid employment with zero downtime/breaks/social interaction. I suspect a lot of other professional jobs are similar. The only full-time thing about it in many seasons was the fact that I had to be physically present full-time to take care of any tasks as they came up (and those tasks were often mundane and easy and quite frankly pointless). There were of course busy times where I worked my butt off, but that was not the norm.

I feel like maybe people don’t realize they hold SAHM as a “job” to a completely different standard than they might hold their own paid employment. Because I don’t think my experience was totally unusual.

You were lucky to have an easy job. But when so. Being away from your home for 8 hours plus commute and having to spend your remaining waking hours caring for a child/children is exhausting

That’s the thing - you can do just as much stuff as a sahm if you work and have school aged kids - esp if you have location flex (which frankly I would not take a job without). You’re just more burned out.
But the ‘sahm to school aged kids is a full time job’ people need to just - stop.

You’re missing the point. You can do just as much as SOME stay at home moms, but not the ones who actually treat it as a full time job. And the stuff you do undoubtedly won’t be to the same standard. And that’s fine, but why are you insisting that other women don’t get to call their job a job?

You cannot do as much housework as a SAHM can, that is absolutely true. And your toilets may certainly be dirtier and your ironing may be more erratic.

But for a school age child who is in school in the normal school hours, you can easily do just as much *parenting* at the same “standard” whatever precisely that means.

What do you mean? Do you mean that working moms spend the same amount of hours with their kid per day as a SAHM? I don’t see how that’s possible if the mom is working 40 hours per week, so I may be misunderstanding.

If you have a job where you physically have to be in an office from 9-5, 5 days a week, or a job where you must complete your work during those same hours, then yeah, you're not going to see your ES kids as much as a SAHM. But there are so so so many alternative set-ups these days -- early start times, WFH, flexible jobs where it doesn't so much matter when you do your work, or specifically where you do not need to be working from like 3-5, and on and on. The school day is pretty long! For you to say that you don't see "how that's possible" makes me think you must not know any working people these days.

And the PP asking about summer??... do your ES kids hang out with their mom all summer? The ES kids in my area, SAHM or not, go to day camps, specialty camps, several weeks of overnight camp, vacations...

Sure, the kids of SAHMs all go to camps all summer, and you personally have knowledge of this. Get real. And the other kids go precisely BECAUSE their parents are working, you nincompoop 🙄.

I'm the "nincompoop" who wrote this. I live in a suburb of Chicago on the Northshore. My DD is going into 4th grade, there were three third grade classes at her public school, each with about 18 kids. The radius of where the families live is small, we know each other well; she had three other girls from her class this year that live just on our very block, and at least 2/3 of our neighborhood have kids at her ES. Summer plans were discussed ad nauseam throughout the month of May at soccer games, school events, around the neighborhood, dance recitals. Pretty much everybody around here, including families with SAHMs, does camp, what can I tell you. Overnight camp is extremely popular too. Three girls in DD's day camp group of 10 were from her third grade class. One has a mom who works. The other two have SAHMs, and one of them did 6 weeks of camp, the other did 8. The SAHM of another rising fourth grader on our street sent her DD to an overnight camp in Wisconsin for 8 weeks. The younger sibs of all three of these women (all going into 2nd grade) similarly did all-day daycamps. A teacher on our block with summers off sent her three kids to camp all summer (oldest at overnight camp). I could go on and on. I live in an area where the SAHM's can afford camp, and these camps are fun. This is what the kids here do.

Notwithstanding your post, I think it’s fair to say that the majority of SAHMs are spending more time with their kids this summer than working moms. Because, math. Also, researchers have studied this and concluded that SAHMs spend more time with their kids. Right? I mean, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills on a very basic proposition.

I guess in your neck of the woods, every kid with a stay at home mom goes to camp every day of the summer from (at least) 9 to 5. But you can’t possibly think that’s a general proposition. And you must agree that you talking about a very narrow portion of children. It’s not like there are sleepaway camps for 2 year olds.

So let’s start there. Can we at least agree that during the summer, a SAHM of a 2 year old is spending more time with her child than a working mom with a 2 year old? Or do you honestly think that SAHM is sending her 2 year old to camp from 9 to 5? To an overnight camp for 8 weeks? If so please let us know the name of these “camps”!

Why are you talking about 2 year olds? The quoted sub-thread is specifically about SAHMs of ELEMENTARY-SCHOOL AGED kids, -- whether SAHMs moms spend more time with their ELEMENTARY-SCHOOL AGED kids than working moms. I wasn't talking about toddlers or preschoolers.

And yes, overall I'm sure SAHMs do spend more time with even their ES kids than FT WOHMs, particularly in the summer. But a lot of working moms, particularly in UMC areas, have a great deal of flexibility in their hours and schedules, ability to WFH, etc., so the gap is smaller than plenty of folks on here seem to think. So many of the comments are giving this vibe that every WOHM is in an office all week from 9 to 5. Like, what's up with your comment about the camps in my area going from 9 to 5? (The full day camps end at 3/3:30, if you're interested, with door-to-door bussing included in the price, and aftercare programs. Obviously the SAHMs don't use the aftercare, and actually, not a whole lot of the WOHMs do either, because we tend to have more flexibility than that.)

[Anonymous]

Oh wow. I think it very much depends on the job, OP.

I have a super flexible job and I'm just plain happier while working. It gives me a sense of independence. It makes me feel like I'm not just an errand girl at home.

It's also MUCH easier to secure appreciation for one's work outside of the home. There aren't that many genuine "thank yous" at home, so I found it easy to feel resentful when I worked exclusively at home.

But women should have this choice. I wish that they could choose what they wanted to do independent of financial constraints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well yeah of course. Being a stay at home mom is a full-time job. But being a work out of the home means you have two full time jobs which is exhausting.

Being a sahm to school aged is NOT a full time job. I think that’s been clearly established.
Which is ok.

It depends. You can be an intense cook, cleaner, gardener, handyperson, room parent, helping neighbor or family, etc.

Right? Often jobs are as intense as you make them. I certainly wasn’t working intensely for 8-9 hours straight at my paid employment with zero downtime/breaks/social interaction. I suspect a lot of other professional jobs are similar. The only full-time thing about it in many seasons was the fact that I had to be physically present full-time to take care of any tasks as they came up (and those tasks were often mundane and easy and quite frankly pointless). There were of course busy times where I worked my butt off, but that was not the norm.

I feel like maybe people don’t realize they hold SAHM as a “job” to a completely different standard than they might hold their own paid employment. Because I don’t think my experience was totally unusual.

You were lucky to have an easy job. But when so. Being away from your home for 8 hours plus commute and having to spend your remaining waking hours caring for a child/children is exhausting

That’s the thing - you can do just as much stuff as a sahm if you work and have school aged kids - esp if you have location flex (which frankly I would not take a job without). You’re just more burned out.
But the ‘sahm to school aged kids is a full time job’ people need to just - stop.

You’re missing the point. You can do just as much as SOME stay at home moms, but not the ones who actually treat it as a full time job. And the stuff you do undoubtedly won’t be to the same standard. And that’s fine, but why are you insisting that other women don’t get to call their job a job?

You cannot do as much housework as a SAHM can, that is absolutely true. And your toilets may certainly be dirtier and your ironing may be more erratic.

But for a school age child who is in school in the normal school hours, you can easily do just as much *parenting* at the same “standard” whatever precisely that means.

Are you sure? Do you take all school breaks including summers off? You don’t outsource any of that childcare time?

This is a weird post. Yes I’m sure? Are you “sure” that SAHM’s are with their children 100% of the time they’re not in school and never let them go to a drop or birthday party or spend the night at
Grandma’s because they’d be below their quota?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well yeah of course. Being a stay at home mom is a full-time job. But being a work out of the home means you have two full time jobs which is exhausting.

Being a sahm to school aged is NOT a full time job. I think that’s been clearly established.
Which is ok.

It depends. You can be an intense cook, cleaner, gardener, handyperson, room parent, helping neighbor or family, etc.

Right? Often jobs are as intense as you make them. I certainly wasn’t working intensely for 8-9 hours straight at my paid employment with zero downtime/breaks/social interaction. I suspect a lot of other professional jobs are similar. The only full-time thing about it in many seasons was the fact that I had to be physically present full-time to take care of any tasks as they came up (and those tasks were often mundane and easy and quite frankly pointless). There were of course busy times where I worked my butt off, but that was not the norm.

I feel like maybe people don’t realize they hold SAHM as a “job” to a completely different standard than they might hold their own paid employment. Because I don’t think my experience was totally unusual.

You were lucky to have an easy job. But when so. Being away from your home for 8 hours plus commute and having to spend your remaining waking hours caring for a child/children is exhausting

That’s the thing - you can do just as much stuff as a sahm if you work and have school aged kids - esp if you have location flex (which frankly I would not take a job without). You’re just more burned out.
But the ‘sahm to school aged kids is a full time job’ people need to just - stop.

You’re missing the point. You can do just as much as SOME stay at home moms, but not the ones who actually treat it as a full time job. And the stuff you do undoubtedly won’t be to the same standard. And that’s fine, but why are you insisting that other women don’t get to call their job a job?

You cannot do as much housework as a SAHM can, that is absolutely true. And your toilets may certainly be dirtier and your ironing may be more erratic.

But for a school age child who is in school in the normal school hours, you can easily do just as much *parenting* at the same “standard” whatever precisely that means.

What do you mean? Do you mean that working moms spend the same amount of hours with their kid per day as a SAHM? I don’t see how that’s possible if the mom is working 40 hours per week, so I may be misunderstanding.

If you have a job where you physically have to be in an office from 9-5, 5 days a week, or a job where you must complete your work during those same hours, then yeah, you're not going to see your ES kids as much as a SAHM. But there are so so so many alternative set-ups these days -- early start times, WFH, flexible jobs where it doesn't so much matter when you do your work, or specifically where you do not need to be working from like 3-5, and on and on. The school day is pretty long! For you to say that you don't see "how that's possible" makes me think you must not know any working people these days.

And the PP asking about summer??... do your ES kids hang out with their mom all summer? The ES kids in my area, SAHM or not, go to day camps, specialty camps, several weeks of overnight camp, vacations...

Sure, the kids of SAHMs all go to camps all summer, and you personally have knowledge of this. Get real. And the other kids go precisely BECAUSE their parents are working, you nincompoop 🙄.

I'm the "nincompoop" who wrote this. I live in a suburb of Chicago on the Northshore. My DD is going into 4th grade, there were three third grade classes at her public school, each with about 18 kids. The radius of where the families live is small, we know each other well; she had three other girls from her class this year that live just on our very block, and at least 2/3 of our neighborhood have kids at her ES. Summer plans were discussed ad nauseam throughout the month of May at soccer games, school events, around the neighborhood, dance recitals. Pretty much everybody around here, including families with SAHMs, does camp, what can I tell you. Overnight camp is extremely popular too. Three girls in DD's day camp group of 10 were from her third grade class. One has a mom who works. The other two have SAHMs, and one of them did 6 weeks of camp, the other did 8. The SAHM of another rising fourth grader on our street sent her DD to an overnight camp in Wisconsin for 8 weeks. The younger sibs of all three of these women (all going into 2nd grade) similarly did all-day daycamps. A teacher on our block with summers off sent her three kids to camp all summer (oldest at overnight camp). I could go on and on. I live in an area where the SAHM's can afford camp, and these camps are fun. This is what the kids here do.

Notwithstanding your post, I think it’s fair to say that the majority of SAHMs are spending more time with their kids this summer than working moms. Because, math. Also, researchers have studied this and concluded that SAHMs spend more time with their kids. Right? I mean, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills on a very basic proposition.

Oh gosh if you think you’re on crazy pills hearing about parents who have flexed their work schedules to maximize time with their kids, you’re going to find out about this highly female-dominated professional called “teaching” and it’s absolutely going to blow your mind.

[Anonymous]

NP. What blows my mind is that so many of you are so quick to jump right into this perennial mommy war fight.

Counting the number of hours?

So sadly predictable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Well yeah of course. Being a stay at home mom is a full-time job. But being a work out of the home means you have two full time jobs which is exhausting.

Being a sahm to school aged is NOT a full time job. I think that’s been clearly established.
Which is ok.

It depends. You can be an intense cook, cleaner, gardener, handyperson, room parent, helping neighbor or family, etc.

Right? Often jobs are as intense as you make them. I certainly wasn’t working intensely for 8-9 hours straight at my paid employment with zero downtime/breaks/social interaction. I suspect a lot of other professional jobs are similar. The only full-time thing about it in many seasons was the fact that I had to be physically present full-time to take care of any tasks as they came up (and those tasks were often mundane and easy and quite frankly pointless). There were of course busy times where I worked my butt off, but that was not the norm.

I feel like maybe people don’t realize they hold SAHM as a “job” to a completely different standard than they might hold their own paid employment. Because I don’t think my experience was totally unusual.

You were lucky to have an easy job. But when so. Being away from your home for 8 hours plus commute and having to spend your remaining waking hours caring for a child/children is exhausting

That’s the thing - you can do just as much stuff as a sahm if you work and have school aged kids - esp if you have location flex (which frankly I would not take a job without). You’re just more burned out.
But the ‘sahm to school aged kids is a full time job’ people need to just - stop.

You’re missing the point. You can do just as much as SOME stay at home moms, but not the ones who actually treat it as a full time job. And the stuff you do undoubtedly won’t be to the same standard. And that’s fine, but why are you insisting that other women don’t get to call their job a job?

You cannot do as much housework as a SAHM can, that is absolutely true. And your toilets may certainly be dirtier and your ironing may be more erratic.

But for a school age child who is in school in the normal school hours, you can easily do just as much *parenting* at the same “standard” whatever precisely that means.

Are you sure? Do you take all school breaks including summers off? You don’t outsource any of that childcare time?

Every kid I know goes to camp whether sahm or not at school age (day or sleep away). What 8 yo wants to hang at home w their mom all summer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well yeah of course. Being a stay at home mom is a full-time job. But being a work out of the home means you have two full time jobs which is exhausting.

Being a sahm to school aged is NOT a full time job. I think that’s been clearly established.
Which is ok.

It depends. You can be an intense cook, cleaner, gardener, handyperson, room parent, helping neighbor or family, etc.

Right? Often jobs are as intense as you make them. I certainly wasn’t working intensely for 8-9 hours straight at my paid employment with zero downtime/breaks/social interaction. I suspect a lot of other professional jobs are similar. The only full-time thing about it in many seasons was the fact that I had to be physically present full-time to take care of any tasks as they came up (and those tasks were often mundane and easy and quite frankly pointless). There were of course busy times where I worked my butt off, but that was not the norm.

I feel like maybe people don’t realize they hold SAHM as a “job” to a completely different standard than they might hold their own paid employment. Because I don’t think my experience was totally unusual.

You were lucky to have an easy job. But when so. Being away from your home for 8 hours plus commute and having to spend your remaining waking hours caring for a child/children is exhausting

That’s the thing - you can do just as much stuff as a sahm if you work and have school aged kids - esp if you have location flex (which frankly I would not take a job without). You’re just more burned out.
But the ‘sahm to school aged kids is a full time job’ people need to just - stop.

You’re missing the point. You can do just as much as SOME stay at home moms, but not the ones who actually treat it as a full time job. And the stuff you do undoubtedly won’t be to the same standard. And that’s fine, but why are you insisting that other women don’t get to call their job a job?

You cannot do as much housework as a SAHM can, that is absolutely true. And your toilets may certainly be dirtier and your ironing may be more erratic.

But for a school age child who is in school in the normal school hours, you can easily do just as much *parenting* at the same “standard” whatever precisely that means.

What do you mean? Do you mean that working moms spend the same amount of hours with their kid per day as a SAHM? I don’t see how that’s possible if the mom is working 40 hours per week, so I may be misunderstanding.

If you have a job where you physically have to be in an office from 9-5, 5 days a week, or a job where you must complete your work during those same hours, then yeah, you're not going to see your ES kids as much as a SAHM. But there are so so so many alternative set-ups these days -- early start times, WFH, flexible jobs where it doesn't so much matter when you do your work, or specifically where you do not need to be working from like 3-5, and on and on. The school day is pretty long! For you to say that you don't see "how that's possible" makes me think you must not know any working people these days.

And the PP asking about summer??... do your ES kids hang out with their mom all summer? The ES kids in my area, SAHM or not, go to day camps, specialty camps, several weeks of overnight camp, vacations...

Sure, the kids of SAHMs all go to camps all summer, and you personally have knowledge of this. Get real. And the other kids go precisely BECAUSE their parents are working, you nincompoop 🙄.

I'm the "nincompoop" who wrote this. I live in a suburb of Chicago on the Northshore. My DD is going into 4th grade, there were three third grade classes at her public school, each with about 18 kids. The radius of where the families live is small, we know each other well; she had three other girls from her class this year that live just on our very block, and at least 2/3 of our neighborhood have kids at her ES. Summer plans were discussed ad nauseam throughout the month of May at soccer games, school events, around the neighborhood, dance recitals. Pretty much everybody around here, including families with SAHMs, does camp, what can I tell you. Overnight camp is extremely popular too. Three girls in DD's day camp group of 10 were from her third grade class. One has a mom who works. The other two have SAHMs, and one of them did 6 weeks of camp, the other did 8. The SAHM of another rising fourth grader on our street sent her DD to an overnight camp in Wisconsin for 8 weeks. The younger sibs of all three of these women (all going into 2nd grade) similarly did all-day daycamps. A teacher on our block with summers off sent her three kids to camp all summer (oldest at overnight camp). I could go on and on. I live in an area where the SAHM's can afford camp, and these camps are fun. This is what the kids here do.

Notwithstanding your post, I think it’s fair to say that the majority of SAHMs are spending more time with their kids this summer than working moms. Because, math. Also, researchers have studied this and concluded that SAHMs spend more time with their kids. Right? I mean, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills on a very basic proposition.

I guess in your neck of the woods, every kid with a stay at home mom goes to camp every day of the summer from (at least) 9 to 5. But you can’t possibly think that’s a general proposition. And you must agree that you talking about a very narrow portion of children. It’s not like there are sleepaway camps for 2 year olds.

So let’s start there. Can we at least agree that during the summer, a SAHM of a 2 year old is spending more time with her child than a working mom with a 2 year old? Or do you honestly think that SAHM is sending her 2 year old to camp from 9 to 5? To an overnight camp for 8 weeks? If so please let us know the name of these “camps”!

It is extremely weird that you are confused about this.
There are many many 8 week sleep away camps in the us attended by many kids whose parents both work and stay home and everything in between. Camp is not a new phenomenon for middle and umc families. Have you not heard of parent trap? Just google it.
Prob less so for lmc families and then their moms prob do spend more time but can ill afford to so ironic and a bummer that this is not an option for them.
Bottom line - school aged kids do not need a human being devoting their whole lives to them and only them. You can if you want, but the only way it’s helping is that you are less burned out. Which is important. But that’s the only argument for. Other than that you just don’t like any work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well yeah of course. Being a stay at home mom is a full-time job. But being a work out of the home means you have two full time jobs which is exhausting.

Being a sahm to school aged is NOT a full time job. I think that’s been clearly established.
Which is ok.

It depends. You can be an intense cook, cleaner, gardener, handyperson, room parent, helping neighbor or family, etc.

Right? Often jobs are as intense as you make them. I certainly wasn’t working intensely for 8-9 hours straight at my paid employment with zero downtime/breaks/social interaction. I suspect a lot of other professional jobs are similar. The only full-time thing about it in many seasons was the fact that I had to be physically present full-time to take care of any tasks as they came up (and those tasks were often mundane and easy and quite frankly pointless). There were of course busy times where I worked my butt off, but that was not the norm.

I feel like maybe people don’t realize they hold SAHM as a “job” to a completely different standard than they might hold their own paid employment. Because I don’t think my experience was totally unusual.

You were lucky to have an easy job. But when so. Being away from your home for 8 hours plus commute and having to spend your remaining waking hours caring for a child/children is exhausting

That’s the thing - you can do just as much stuff as a sahm if you work and have school aged kids - esp if you have location flex (which frankly I would not take a job without). You’re just more burned out.
But the ‘sahm to school aged kids is a full time job’ people need to just - stop.

You’re missing the point. You can do just as much as SOME stay at home moms, but not the ones who actually treat it as a full time job. And the stuff you do undoubtedly won’t be to the same standard. And that’s fine, but why are you insisting that other women don’t get to call their job a job?

You cannot do as much housework as a SAHM can, that is absolutely true. And your toilets may certainly be dirtier and your ironing may be more erratic.

But for a school age child who is in school in the normal school hours, you can easily do just as much *parenting* at the same “standard” whatever precisely that means.

What do you mean? Do you mean that working moms spend the same amount of hours with their kid per day as a SAHM? I don’t see how that’s possible if the mom is working 40 hours per week, so I may be misunderstanding.

I wft and this is basically true. I either drop kids at 830a, run home (as in go for a run but end up at home), shower and online on calls by 930, then dh gets kids and they are home by 530. Or dh drops them and I am online by 830-9 then pick them up at 5. I would not get them earlier very often even if I didn’t work bc it’s better for them to be playing basketball or doing music classes at school than in our small apt (nyc). We log off early on Fridays so I get them at 315 that day. I do do a lot of work after they go to bed and I am tired in the evening so prob not gazing into their eyes and leaning into further enrichment (they are also tired and typically watch a little tv or we watch together) so I’m def not bringing my a game to the party as much as I would be if I’d chilled all day. That is true

Op here. This thread has gone off the rails and devolved into a debate mostly about whether elementary school SAHM do as much work, but to go back to the original intention of my post, this is my point. It’s easier to be a present, involved parent when you’re not working because you’re well rested when the kids are around. I too spent a lot of time with my kids when working because I wfh with lots of flexibility, but I didn’t realize how tired I was during those times. Now that I have down time when kids are at activities, I’m so much more engaged and happy and not distracted by the other things on my mind when i am with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well yeah of course. Being a stay at home mom is a full-time job. But being a work out of the home means you have two full time jobs which is exhausting.

Being a sahm to school aged is NOT a full time job. I think that’s been clearly established.
Which is ok.

It depends. You can be an intense cook, cleaner, gardener, handyperson, room parent, helping neighbor or family, etc.

Right? Often jobs are as intense as you make them. I certainly wasn’t working intensely for 8-9 hours straight at my paid employment with zero downtime/breaks/social interaction. I suspect a lot of other professional jobs are similar. The only full-time thing about it in many seasons was the fact that I had to be physically present full-time to take care of any tasks as they came up (and those tasks were often mundane and easy and quite frankly pointless). There were of course busy times where I worked my butt off, but that was not the norm.

I feel like maybe people don’t realize they hold SAHM as a “job” to a completely different standard than they might hold their own paid employment. Because I don’t think my experience was totally unusual.

You were lucky to have an easy job. But when so. Being away from your home for 8 hours plus commute and having to spend your remaining waking hours caring for a child/children is exhausting

That’s the thing - you can do just as much stuff as a sahm if you work and have school aged kids - esp if you have location flex (which frankly I would not take a job without). You’re just more burned out.
But the ‘sahm to school aged kids is a full time job’ people need to just - stop.

You’re missing the point. You can do just as much as SOME stay at home moms, but not the ones who actually treat it as a full time job. And the stuff you do undoubtedly won’t be to the same standard. And that’s fine, but why are you insisting that other women don’t get to call their job a job?

You cannot do as much housework as a SAHM can, that is absolutely true. And your toilets may certainly be dirtier and your ironing may be more erratic.

But for a school age child who is in school in the normal school hours, you can easily do just as much *parenting* at the same “standard” whatever precisely that means.

What do you mean? Do you mean that working moms spend the same amount of hours with their kid per day as a SAHM? I don’t see how that’s possible if the mom is working 40 hours per week, so I may be misunderstanding.

I wft and this is basically true. I either drop kids at 830a, run home (as in go for a run but end up at home), shower and online on calls by 930, then dh gets kids and they are home by 530. Or dh drops them and I am online by 830-9 then pick them up at 5. I would not get them earlier very often even if I didn’t work bc it’s better for them to be playing basketball or doing music classes at school than in our small apt (nyc). We log off early on Fridays so I get them at 315 that day. I do do a lot of work after they go to bed and I am tired in the evening so prob not gazing into their eyes and leaning into further enrichment (they are also tired and typically watch a little tv or we watch together) so I’m def not bringing my a game to the party as much as I would be if I’d chilled all day. That is true

Op here. This thread has gone off the rails and devolved into a debate mostly about whether elementary school SAHM do as much work, but to go back to the original intention of my post, this is my point. It’s easier to be a present, involved parent when you’re not working because you’re well rested when the kids are around. I too spent a lot of time with my kids when working because I wfh with lots of flexibility, but I didn’t realize how tired I was during those times. Now that I have down time when kids are at activities, I’m so much more engaged and happy and not distracted by the other things on my mind when i am with them.

SAHMs have more down time would have been a much less inflammatory place to start OP. No one would have argued with you (though perhaps it would not apply to the mom who left the work force because of a child with SN)