3% raise for teachers? What a joke FCPS!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that could happen to encourage more young people to go into teaching is paying for their degree in full at a state school if they can make it through 2 years of teaching.

To the poster who doesn't believe teachers work 60 hours a week:
7 a.m. -arrive at school, prep items, copy things, respond to emails, work on data
8 a.m. -kids arrive
11:00 a.m. -eat lunch while calling a parent and responding to emails, prep items for after lunch, set up a science demo, meet with a colleague about a student, maybe use the restroom and run to the recess door to pick kids up on time, create a chart for the kid who keeps eating the trash out of the trash can
11:50 a.m.- teach
1:00 p.m. -It's supposed to be prep time, but you have meetings 2/3 days you have prep
1:50 p.m. -pick kids up
2:30 p.m. -dismiss kids, talk with parents at pick up, clean up the room, meet with the social worker about another kid, check emails, attend meetings, planning, grading, create a new center, etc, etc, etc.
4:30 p.m. -drive home, pick up kids, make dinner, go to gym, etc
7:00 p.m. -more emails, analyze student writing samples, plan both whole group and small group writing instruction (or math or reading or whatever). Begin writing a grant, or look for a cool 2 minute video to illustrate a science concept or run to target to buy supplies for a project or look for ways to engage a learner who has adhd, etc, etc.
9:00 p.m. Watch TV, go to bed

All that is M-Th. Fridays, I go out for drinks or am exhausted and go to sleep.

Saturdays, I often go into school for 2 hours because there's no one else there making copies and I get a lot of organizational stuff done. Sunday afternoons I'll put in a few hours on some of my whole group planning.

When my kids were little, I remember bringing them to a roller skating party. While they skated, I sat and cut out laminating. I graded papers at sports practices. I once wanted to bring stuff to cut out to a water park (indoors, winter) and my husband put his foot down and said absolutely not.

I used to LOVE teaching. Truly. I left public education this year and will never go back. Not because of the hours. I'm kind of a workaholic and if I love what I'm doing, it's super satisfying to see students thrive because of it. But I was in a situation where I was truly not safe, and I had to leave. I'll be in a fancy private school this fall and anticipate working just as hard.

You realise even if you work every minute of lunch, every minute of 2:30-4:30, and all of the 7-9pm window… that still isn’t a 12 hour day, right?

You aren’t making the point you think you are. I don’t doubt you have worked an 11 hour day, but there is no way you are averaging anywhere close to 11 hours per day, let alone 12.

When I see a time sheet with 12 hours recorded on it I am going to need to know what the person was crashing on, and if you are averaging 12 per day over a year you need to be going over 12 every time you go under.

I’m the 60-hour PP you don’t believe.

I regularly assign essays and papers. I’m responsible for teaching writing. One stack of essays can take 30 sustained hours to grade. I don’t get time at school to do that, so if happens on my own time. I try to get them back in 2 weeks, with comments.

120 papers x 15 minutes each = 30 hours

I also have smaller assignments I need to grade each week, so maybe another 5 hours there. Planning takes an additional 5-8 a week. Responding to emails, updating reports? 1-2 hours. Teaching in front of a class? 30-33 hours a week.

I work 12-14 hours every weekend in addition to 1-4 hours every M-F night. It’s Memorial Day and I’m waking up before my family to grade so I can see them later today, hopefully for dinner.

It’s so astoundingly arrogant of you to claim I’m lying. You’ve seen teachers out and about? Somehow that’s proof they don’t work?

I have three coworkers who quit this year from my department because they can’t keep the hours. I’m going to quit, too.

Here’s how you can help: don’t assume you know the life of a teacher. Why don’t you shed some of that ignorance (and arrogance) by signing up to sub. It would be a good eye-opener for you, and we could use the help.

It isn’t arrogant to say I don’t believe you, I simply don’t. As I said before I have actually worked those types of hours and know they leave no time or energy for anything else.

If you work 60 hour weeks even occasionally you are a rare exception.

This is ridiculous, even by DCUM standards. You have little knowledge of my profession. When multiple posters try to explain it to you, you STILL refuse to believe somebody’s reality doesn’t match your imagination.

You are correct: these hours leave little time for anything else. That’s why we are quitting in record numbers. These hours can’t be sustained.

And rare exception? I posted above that 3 department members quit this year alone because of these hours.

It is rather foolish to assume you know more than the expert.

[Anonymous]

The two things about education I see-

Current starter pay and pay for the first several years is not enough for a young person out of college to live in this area alone.

Teaching has become the least family friendly career out there. I don’t care that we get the summer off or breaks that align with our kids, have you seen the crap maternity leave options? And we are never at our own kids first days. We can’t just leave early or go to a doctors appointment or stay home with a sick kid without additional work to leave a sub and the guilt of leaving students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you become a teacher these days? No one wants to pay for college to be a teacher but I think there are people interested. They should incentivize going into the field.

Are you suggesting opening up teaching to people without college degrees?

I teach college-level classes at the high school level.

DP but I think k-6 teaching programs can be possible with a 4 year degree. Education degrees aren’t even all education classes.

I meant without a 4 year degree.

Meaning cut out the extra classes and make it a 2 year program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you become a teacher these days? No one wants to pay for college to be a teacher but I think there are people interested. They should incentivize going into the field.

Are you suggesting opening up teaching to people without college degrees?

I teach college-level classes at the high school level.

DP but I think k-6 teaching programs can be possible with a 4 year degree. Education degrees aren’t even all education classes.

I meant without a 4 year degree.

Meaning cut out the extra classes and make it a 2 year program.

Most of us in the profession would likely recommend going the other direction, requiring masters degrees and continuing education.

This job takes a multitude of skills and a lot of content knowledge. Even though a K-6 teacher may be responsible for lower-level math, science, and language arts instruction, they need to be able to effectively communicate and teach those subjects. It’s one thing to know the information yourself, it’s another beast entirely to be able to successfully transfer the knowledge to others. There’s also a good deal of data collection and analysis, which is a part of the job that increases every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that could happen to encourage more young people to go into teaching is paying for their degree in full at a state school if they can make it through 2 years of teaching.

To the poster who doesn't believe teachers work 60 hours a week:
7 a.m. -arrive at school, prep items, copy things, respond to emails, work on data
8 a.m. -kids arrive
11:00 a.m. -eat lunch while calling a parent and responding to emails, prep items for after lunch, set up a science demo, meet with a colleague about a student, maybe use the restroom and run to the recess door to pick kids up on time, create a chart for the kid who keeps eating the trash out of the trash can
11:50 a.m.- teach
1:00 p.m. -It's supposed to be prep time, but you have meetings 2/3 days you have prep
1:50 p.m. -pick kids up
2:30 p.m. -dismiss kids, talk with parents at pick up, clean up the room, meet with the social worker about another kid, check emails, attend meetings, planning, grading, create a new center, etc, etc, etc.
4:30 p.m. -drive home, pick up kids, make dinner, go to gym, etc
7:00 p.m. -more emails, analyze student writing samples, plan both whole group and small group writing instruction (or math or reading or whatever). Begin writing a grant, or look for a cool 2 minute video to illustrate a science concept or run to target to buy supplies for a project or look for ways to engage a learner who has adhd, etc, etc.
9:00 p.m. Watch TV, go to bed

All that is M-Th. Fridays, I go out for drinks or am exhausted and go to sleep.

Saturdays, I often go into school for 2 hours because there's no one else there making copies and I get a lot of organizational stuff done. Sunday afternoons I'll put in a few hours on some of my whole group planning.

When my kids were little, I remember bringing them to a roller skating party. While they skated, I sat and cut out laminating. I graded papers at sports practices. I once wanted to bring stuff to cut out to a water park (indoors, winter) and my husband put his foot down and said absolutely not.

I used to LOVE teaching. Truly. I left public education this year and will never go back. Not because of the hours. I'm kind of a workaholic and if I love what I'm doing, it's super satisfying to see students thrive because of it. But I was in a situation where I was truly not safe, and I had to leave. I'll be in a fancy private school this fall and anticipate working just as hard.

You realise even if you work every minute of lunch, every minute of 2:30-4:30, and all of the 7-9pm window… that still isn’t a 12 hour day, right?

You aren’t making the point you think you are. I don’t doubt you have worked an 11 hour day, but there is no way you are averaging anywhere close to 11 hours per day, let alone 12.

When I see a time sheet with 12 hours recorded on it I am going to need to know what the person was crashing on, and if you are averaging 12 per day over a year you need to be going over 12 every time you go under.

I’m the 60-hour PP you don’t believe.

I regularly assign essays and papers. I’m responsible for teaching writing. One stack of essays can take 30 sustained hours to grade. I don’t get time at school to do that, so if happens on my own time. I try to get them back in 2 weeks, with comments.

120 papers x 15 minutes each = 30 hours

I also have smaller assignments I need to grade each week, so maybe another 5 hours there. Planning takes an additional 5-8 a week. Responding to emails, updating reports? 1-2 hours. Teaching in front of a class? 30-33 hours a week.

I work 12-14 hours every weekend in addition to 1-4 hours every M-F night. It’s Memorial Day and I’m waking up before my family to grade so I can see them later today, hopefully for dinner.

It’s so astoundingly arrogant of you to claim I’m lying. You’ve seen teachers out and about? Somehow that’s proof they don’t work?

I have three coworkers who quit this year from my department because they can’t keep the hours. I’m going to quit, too.

Here’s how you can help: don’t assume you know the life of a teacher. Why don’t you shed some of that ignorance (and arrogance) by signing up to sub. It would be a good eye-opener for you, and we could use the help.

It isn’t arrogant to say I don’t believe you, I simply don’t. As I said before I have actually worked those types of hours and know they leave no time or energy for anything else.

If you work 60 hour weeks even occasionally you are a rare exception.

This is ridiculous, even by DCUM standards. You have little knowledge of my profession. When multiple posters try to explain it to you, you STILL refuse to believe somebody’s reality doesn’t match your imagination.

You are correct: these hours leave little time for anything else. That’s why we are quitting in record numbers. These hours can’t be sustained.

And rare exception? I posted above that 3 department members quit this year alone because of these hours.

It is rather foolish to assume you know more than the expert.

You should quit if you are actually putting in anything close to what you claim.

“ During the school year, her calculations show that teachers work 39.8 hours per week while nonteachers work 41.5 hours. During the summer, teachers do work noticeably fewer hours. West reports that teachers work 21.5 hours per week during the summer. (Perhaps think of this as more like a half-time job than like “summer vacation.”)”

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2019/06/12/do-teachers-work-long-hours/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that could happen to encourage more young people to go into teaching is paying for their degree in full at a state school if they can make it through 2 years of teaching.

To the poster who doesn't believe teachers work 60 hours a week:
7 a.m. -arrive at school, prep items, copy things, respond to emails, work on data
8 a.m. -kids arrive
11:00 a.m. -eat lunch while calling a parent and responding to emails, prep items for after lunch, set up a science demo, meet with a colleague about a student, maybe use the restroom and run to the recess door to pick kids up on time, create a chart for the kid who keeps eating the trash out of the trash can
11:50 a.m.- teach
1:00 p.m. -It's supposed to be prep time, but you have meetings 2/3 days you have prep
1:50 p.m. -pick kids up
2:30 p.m. -dismiss kids, talk with parents at pick up, clean up the room, meet with the social worker about another kid, check emails, attend meetings, planning, grading, create a new center, etc, etc, etc.
4:30 p.m. -drive home, pick up kids, make dinner, go to gym, etc
7:00 p.m. -more emails, analyze student writing samples, plan both whole group and small group writing instruction (or math or reading or whatever). Begin writing a grant, or look for a cool 2 minute video to illustrate a science concept or run to target to buy supplies for a project or look for ways to engage a learner who has adhd, etc, etc.
9:00 p.m. Watch TV, go to bed

All that is M-Th. Fridays, I go out for drinks or am exhausted and go to sleep.

Saturdays, I often go into school for 2 hours because there's no one else there making copies and I get a lot of organizational stuff done. Sunday afternoons I'll put in a few hours on some of my whole group planning.

When my kids were little, I remember bringing them to a roller skating party. While they skated, I sat and cut out laminating. I graded papers at sports practices. I once wanted to bring stuff to cut out to a water park (indoors, winter) and my husband put his foot down and said absolutely not.

I used to LOVE teaching. Truly. I left public education this year and will never go back. Not because of the hours. I'm kind of a workaholic and if I love what I'm doing, it's super satisfying to see students thrive because of it. But I was in a situation where I was truly not safe, and I had to leave. I'll be in a fancy private school this fall and anticipate working just as hard.

You realise even if you work every minute of lunch, every minute of 2:30-4:30, and all of the 7-9pm window… that still isn’t a 12 hour day, right?

You aren’t making the point you think you are. I don’t doubt you have worked an 11 hour day, but there is no way you are averaging anywhere close to 11 hours per day, let alone 12.

When I see a time sheet with 12 hours recorded on it I am going to need to know what the person was crashing on, and if you are averaging 12 per day over a year you need to be going over 12 every time you go under.

I’m the 60-hour PP you don’t believe.

I regularly assign essays and papers. I’m responsible for teaching writing. One stack of essays can take 30 sustained hours to grade. I don’t get time at school to do that, so if happens on my own time. I try to get them back in 2 weeks, with comments.

120 papers x 15 minutes each = 30 hours

I also have smaller assignments I need to grade each week, so maybe another 5 hours there. Planning takes an additional 5-8 a week. Responding to emails, updating reports? 1-2 hours. Teaching in front of a class? 30-33 hours a week.

I work 12-14 hours every weekend in addition to 1-4 hours every M-F night. It’s Memorial Day and I’m waking up before my family to grade so I can see them later today, hopefully for dinner.

It’s so astoundingly arrogant of you to claim I’m lying. You’ve seen teachers out and about? Somehow that’s proof they don’t work?

I have three coworkers who quit this year from my department because they can’t keep the hours. I’m going to quit, too.

Here’s how you can help: don’t assume you know the life of a teacher. Why don’t you shed some of that ignorance (and arrogance) by signing up to sub. It would be a good eye-opener for you, and we could use the help.

It isn’t arrogant to say I don’t believe you, I simply don’t. As I said before I have actually worked those types of hours and know they leave no time or energy for anything else.

If you work 60 hour weeks even occasionally you are a rare exception.

This is ridiculous, even by DCUM standards. You have little knowledge of my profession. When multiple posters try to explain it to you, you STILL refuse to believe somebody’s reality doesn’t match your imagination.

You are correct: these hours leave little time for anything else. That’s why we are quitting in record numbers. These hours can’t be sustained.

And rare exception? I posted above that 3 department members quit this year alone because of these hours.

It is rather foolish to assume you know more than the expert.

You should quit if you are actually putting in anything close to what you claim.

“ During the school year, her calculations show that teachers work 39.8 hours per week while nonteachers work 41.5 hours. During the summer, teachers do work noticeably fewer hours. West reports that teachers work 21.5 hours per week during the summer. (Perhaps think of this as more like a half-time job than like “summer vacation.”)”

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2019/06/12/do-teachers-work-long-hours/

I am quitting because of these hours, as are many of my coworkers. That’s kind of the whole point. Those of us doing the job are tired of conditions and are leaving. Want good teachers? Respect us (through pay and through work/life balance) and we’ll stay.

Your article doesn’t prove what you want it to prove. The data is also nonsensical. (Part time summer work of 21 hours? We aren’t employed during the summer. Those hours are unpaid.) Your article also clearly states some teachers work far more.

On that note, I’m now going back to work. On a holiday. As usual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3% is a perfectly reasonable COLA.

I think plenty of us would be okay paying teachers more if they were full time, year round. Teachers forget how much time they have off when they’re comparing their salaries. 80k would be 100k if they worked year round and got 3 weeks vacation.

FCPS teachers work 195 days. People who work all year with no vacation equals 260 days. Subtract your three weeks of holiday/vacation and you have 245. A difference of 50 days. But here is the thing….

Most teachers put in over 40 hours in a week which adds up to additional work days. So in reality the difference could end up being a lot less. Also many professional jobs get more than 3 weeks vacation. My husband is a fed and has enough vacation time to take off more than 3 weeks a year.

Don’t forget to subtract out two weeks for winter break and one week for spring break for teachers as well, where they don’t have to take vacation days. That’s another 3 weeks right there in FCPS - so a difference on 65 days by your count. I think that’s a lot fwiw.

No. 195 days are Working days. So your math is wrong.

Oh - ok thx.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3% is a perfectly reasonable COLA.

I think plenty of us would be okay paying teachers more if they were full time, year round. Teachers forget how much time they have off when they’re comparing their salaries. 80k would be 100k if they worked year round and got 3 weeks vacation.

FCPS teachers work 195 days. People who work all year with no vacation equals 260 days. Subtract your three weeks of holiday/vacation and you have 245. A difference of 50 days. But here is the thing….

Most teachers put in over 40 hours in a week which adds up to additional work days. So in reality the difference could end up being a lot less. Also many professional jobs get more than 3 weeks vacation. My husband is a fed and has enough vacation time to take off more than 3 weeks a year.

Don’t forget to subtract out two weeks for winter break and one week for spring break for teachers as well, where they don’t have to take vacation days. That’s another 3 weeks right there in FCPS - so a difference on 65 days by your count. I think that’s a lot fwiw.

No. 195 days are Working days. So your math is wrong.

+1. Stay in your lane.

This is my lane but I made a math mistake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3% is a perfectly reasonable COLA.

I think plenty of us would be okay paying teachers more if they were full time, year round. Teachers forget how much time they have off when they’re comparing their salaries. 80k would be 100k if they worked year round and got 3 weeks vacation.

Time off won’t pay my bills. The jobs I can get in the summer don’t fully pay them either.

So get a different job? I missed the part where you were forced into teaching with no way out.

LOL I'm not the PP just watching you parents dig a grave. Teachers are leaving wake up!!

Frankly I’m fine with that - let the market deal with it then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that could happen to encourage more young people to go into teaching is paying for their degree in full at a state school if they can make it through 2 years of teaching.

To the poster who doesn't believe teachers work 60 hours a week:
7 a.m. -arrive at school, prep items, copy things, respond to emails, work on data
8 a.m. -kids arrive
11:00 a.m. -eat lunch while calling a parent and responding to emails, prep items for after lunch, set up a science demo, meet with a colleague about a student, maybe use the restroom and run to the recess door to pick kids up on time, create a chart for the kid who keeps eating the trash out of the trash can
11:50 a.m.- teach
1:00 p.m. -It's supposed to be prep time, but you have meetings 2/3 days you have prep
1:50 p.m. -pick kids up
2:30 p.m. -dismiss kids, talk with parents at pick up, clean up the room, meet with the social worker about another kid, check emails, attend meetings, planning, grading, create a new center, etc, etc, etc.
4:30 p.m. -drive home, pick up kids, make dinner, go to gym, etc
7:00 p.m. -more emails, analyze student writing samples, plan both whole group and small group writing instruction (or math or reading or whatever). Begin writing a grant, or look for a cool 2 minute video to illustrate a science concept or run to target to buy supplies for a project or look for ways to engage a learner who has adhd, etc, etc.
9:00 p.m. Watch TV, go to bed

All that is M-Th. Fridays, I go out for drinks or am exhausted and go to sleep.

Saturdays, I often go into school for 2 hours because there's no one else there making copies and I get a lot of organizational stuff done. Sunday afternoons I'll put in a few hours on some of my whole group planning.

When my kids were little, I remember bringing them to a roller skating party. While they skated, I sat and cut out laminating. I graded papers at sports practices. I once wanted to bring stuff to cut out to a water park (indoors, winter) and my husband put his foot down and said absolutely not.

I used to LOVE teaching. Truly. I left public education this year and will never go back. Not because of the hours. I'm kind of a workaholic and if I love what I'm doing, it's super satisfying to see students thrive because of it. But I was in a situation where I was truly not safe, and I had to leave. I'll be in a fancy private school this fall and anticipate working just as hard.

You realise even if you work every minute of lunch, every minute of 2:30-4:30, and all of the 7-9pm window… that still isn’t a 12 hour day, right?

You aren’t making the point you think you are. I don’t doubt you have worked an 11 hour day, but there is no way you are averaging anywhere close to 11 hours per day, let alone 12.

When I see a time sheet with 12 hours recorded on it I am going to need to know what the person was crashing on, and if you are averaging 12 per day over a year you need to be going over 12 every time you go under.

I’m the 60-hour PP you don’t believe.

I regularly assign essays and papers. I’m responsible for teaching writing. One stack of essays can take 30 sustained hours to grade. I don’t get time at school to do that, so if happens on my own time. I try to get them back in 2 weeks, with comments.

120 papers x 15 minutes each = 30 hours

I also have smaller assignments I need to grade each week, so maybe another 5 hours there. Planning takes an additional 5-8 a week. Responding to emails, updating reports? 1-2 hours. Teaching in front of a class? 30-33 hours a week.

I work 12-14 hours every weekend in addition to 1-4 hours every M-F night. It’s Memorial Day and I’m waking up before my family to grade so I can see them later today, hopefully for dinner.

It’s so astoundingly arrogant of you to claim I’m lying. You’ve seen teachers out and about? Somehow that’s proof they don’t work?

I have three coworkers who quit this year from my department because they can’t keep the hours. I’m going to quit, too.

Here’s how you can help: don’t assume you know the life of a teacher. Why don’t you shed some of that ignorance (and arrogance) by signing up to sub. It would be a good eye-opener for you, and we could use the help.

It isn’t arrogant to say I don’t believe you, I simply don’t. As I said before I have actually worked those types of hours and know they leave no time or energy for anything else.

If you work 60 hour weeks even occasionally you are a rare exception.

DP. That's probably because you're low energy. I worked in management consulting and 60 hours were routine, with frequent peaks at 80 and the occasional 100 or more when the ____ hit the fan on a project or deadlines were moved. Young lawyers and I-bankers routinely work 80 to 100 hours, and all these people make a lot more money than even a seasoned teacher and can outsource a lot of chores (the firm had a concierge service we could use to organize help).

Granted, we ordered dinner in courtesy of the firm on those hours, but they still left you with time to go to the gym, or go out for drinks, or watch a movie. At 60 hours, you still have the weekend. Beyond that, not so much. It makes perfect sense for a teacher with children to carve that time out in the afternoon to take their kids to sports events or activities and then work late into the night.

[Anonymous]

Here’s the reality. It doesn’t matter how many hours people think teachers work or don’t work. We’re all different on that front, once you get beyond mandated contract hours. It doesn’t matter how many hours you think we work in the summer. Some of us have three jobs cobbled together, while some of us take the time to decompress. And it doesn’t matter whether you think 60k, 80k, or whatever is a reasonable salary, or that 3% is a reasonable raise. The fact is that there is a teacher shortage. As a teacher, I can tell you that you can’t attract the best and brightest to this field anymore. Many of those who can leave are leaving, especially the ones who have advanced degrees or transferable skills, which is essentially all of the “good” ones. People who have other sources of income (ie high-earning partners) also are fleeing the field, or at least fleeing public teaching positions. And so the question becomes, do you want to attract the best and brightest to teach our children? And if you do, what do we as a society need to do to make that happen? It’s not whatever it is we’re doing right now, regardless of anyone’s opinion about our salary or the hours we work. I am leaving for a private school. If things aren’t better, I will leave the field. It was a second career for me, and so I have that option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the reality. It doesn’t matter how many hours people think teachers work or don’t work. We’re all different on that front, once you get beyond mandated contract hours. It doesn’t matter how many hours you think we work in the summer. Some of us have three jobs cobbled together, while some of us take the time to decompress. And it doesn’t matter whether you think 60k, 80k, or whatever is a reasonable salary, or that 3% is a reasonable raise. The fact is that there is a teacher shortage. As a teacher, I can tell you that you can’t attract the best and brightest to this field anymore. Many of those who can leave are leaving, especially the ones who have advanced degrees or transferable skills, which is essentially all of the “good” ones. People who have other sources of income (ie high-earning partners) also are fleeing the field, or at least fleeing public teaching positions. And so the question becomes, do you want to attract the best and brightest to teach our children? And if you do, what do we as a society need to do to make that happen? It’s not whatever it is we’re doing right now, regardless of anyone’s opinion about our salary or the hours we work. I am leaving for a private school. If things aren’t better, I will leave the field. It was a second career for me, and so I have that option.

This. I cannot believe any parent would not be concerned with this shortage. Do you care if your kid does not have a teacher next year??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that could happen to encourage more young people to go into teaching is paying for their degree in full at a state school if they can make it through 2 years of teaching.

To the poster who doesn't believe teachers work 60 hours a week:
7 a.m. -arrive at school, prep items, copy things, respond to emails, work on data
8 a.m. -kids arrive
11:00 a.m. -eat lunch while calling a parent and responding to emails, prep items for after lunch, set up a science demo, meet with a colleague about a student, maybe use the restroom and run to the recess door to pick kids up on time, create a chart for the kid who keeps eating the trash out of the trash can
11:50 a.m.- teach
1:00 p.m. -It's supposed to be prep time, but you have meetings 2/3 days you have prep
1:50 p.m. -pick kids up
2:30 p.m. -dismiss kids, talk with parents at pick up, clean up the room, meet with the social worker about another kid, check emails, attend meetings, planning, grading, create a new center, etc, etc, etc.
4:30 p.m. -drive home, pick up kids, make dinner, go to gym, etc
7:00 p.m. -more emails, analyze student writing samples, plan both whole group and small group writing instruction (or math or reading or whatever). Begin writing a grant, or look for a cool 2 minute video to illustrate a science concept or run to target to buy supplies for a project or look for ways to engage a learner who has adhd, etc, etc.
9:00 p.m. Watch TV, go to bed

All that is M-Th. Fridays, I go out for drinks or am exhausted and go to sleep.

Saturdays, I often go into school for 2 hours because there's no one else there making copies and I get a lot of organizational stuff done. Sunday afternoons I'll put in a few hours on some of my whole group planning.

When my kids were little, I remember bringing them to a roller skating party. While they skated, I sat and cut out laminating. I graded papers at sports practices. I once wanted to bring stuff to cut out to a water park (indoors, winter) and my husband put his foot down and said absolutely not.

I used to LOVE teaching. Truly. I left public education this year and will never go back. Not because of the hours. I'm kind of a workaholic and if I love what I'm doing, it's super satisfying to see students thrive because of it. But I was in a situation where I was truly not safe, and I had to leave. I'll be in a fancy private school this fall and anticipate working just as hard.

You realise even if you work every minute of lunch, every minute of 2:30-4:30, and all of the 7-9pm window… that still isn’t a 12 hour day, right?

You aren’t making the point you think you are. I don’t doubt you have worked an 11 hour day, but there is no way you are averaging anywhere close to 11 hours per day, let alone 12.

When I see a time sheet with 12 hours recorded on it I am going to need to know what the person was crashing on, and if you are averaging 12 per day over a year you need to be going over 12 every time you go under.

I also don’t believe any of this. Sorry!! What teacher is talking to parents at dismissal? Dismissal is done to the bus, to kiss and ride and for walkers. Parents are not going to the classroom on a routine basis.

Similarly, I also don’t believe you get that many emails DAILY that need replying to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers do get 2 months off. It is unique.

And winter break and spring break and many holidays. It’s not fair to compare salaries without taking that into account. And most professionals work “after hours” too.

most professionals answer emails after 4pm

Are you claiming teachers don’t?
I don’t get a moment during the school day to answer emails, so they pile up. I respond to ALL emails at home each night. (You do realize I’m teaching all day? That I’m not sitting at my desk on my computer?)

our teachers don’t. They let them all sit overnight and answer them at 9am during morning meeting. By then the homework can’t be worked on!

Do you think they SHOULD answer your emails that you sent in the evening or at night?

Be a parent. Figure it out. A teacher should absolutely NOT have to answer emails at night. They have the right to have a personal life outside of work, and that does not involve answering your questions via email.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the reality. It doesn’t matter how many hours people think teachers work or don’t work. We’re all different on that front, once you get beyond mandated contract hours. It doesn’t matter how many hours you think we work in the summer. Some of us have three jobs cobbled together, while some of us take the time to decompress. And it doesn’t matter whether you think 60k, 80k, or whatever is a reasonable salary, or that 3% is a reasonable raise. The fact is that there is a teacher shortage. As a teacher, I can tell you that you can’t attract the best and brightest to this field anymore. Many of those who can leave are leaving, especially the ones who have advanced degrees or transferable skills, which is essentially all of the “good” ones. People who have other sources of income (ie high-earning partners) also are fleeing the field, or at least fleeing public teaching positions. And so the question becomes, do you want to attract the best and brightest to teach our children? And if you do, what do we as a society need to do to make that happen? It’s not whatever it is we’re doing right now, regardless of anyone’s opinion about our salary or the hours we work. I am leaving for a private school. If things aren’t better, I will leave the field. It was a second career for me, and so I have that option.

+1. This is what they don't understand: their opinion on things doesn't matter. Even if teachers are overpaid, undereducated, whining, lazy, entitled brats who are wrong about everything, there is still a historic teacher shortage. Teachers are leaving and there is no one qualified to replace them. I have not heard one detractor address this fact. They keep dismissing it, like a little kid with their hands over their ears, pretending bad things aren't real. When we say we are underpaid, overworked, and disrespected, it isn't a debate, it is an exit interview. There aren't two equal and opposing sides here. These are just statements of fact. Teachers are leaving the field because of these things. Whether you agree or not is utterly irrelevant, because we are still leaving and there isn't anyone qualified to replace us. You won't shame us, insult us, or argue us into staying.

This is a real problem. Filling the vacancies with provisional licenses and teacher residences won't solve it. Telling teachers they are wrong won't solve it and is making things worse.