Florida expands "Don't say gay" law to k-12

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/3958769-florida-education-board-approves-desantiss-expansion-of-dont-say-gay-reports/.



For all those who defended this because "little kids don't need to know about homosexuality" -- we told you this was coming.

12th grades are still babies in my book, I still have underwear and clothes that are 17-20 years old. We don't need to know what they are doing in the bedroom. we pay them to teach X2-X2/ Y2-Y1= OR Y=MX+B, we don't teach them to talk about their life style or personal life or whatever.

Is this satire?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/3958769-florida-education-board-approves-desantiss-expansion-of-dont-say-gay-reports/.



For all those who defended this because "little kids don't need to know about homosexuality" -- we told you this was coming.

12th grades are still babies in my book, I still have underwear and clothes that are 17-20 years old. We don't need to know what they are doing in the bedroom. we pay them to teach X2-X2/ Y2-Y1= OR Y=MX+B, we don't teach them to talk about their life style or personal life or whatever.

There were 12th graders (and 9th & 11th graders) HAVING babies at my high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am my 41 years old, back then teachers won't talk about how awesome it is to be gay, I don't know if I had any single gay teacher because they didn't tell us their life story. they taught, they didn't teach us about PRONOUS or CRT either.

Of course you had a gay teacher you fool.

Exactly the PP's point. It's not something he/she needed to know.

Keep 'em in that closet don't you know! Maybe ask the teachers how they felt having to be closeted at work.

I don't think that's what the law is saying. I'm not here to defend it but perhaps it's similar to discussing religion. If it comes up incidentally (e.g., "Mr. Jones, what are doing for winter break? Oh, we're celebrating Christmas at..."), then it's not problematic. I had several gay teachers at my high school in the 1990s, including my drama teacher. We all knew about his partner and it did not matter. It shouldn't. However, I could see how pontificating on someone's identity might be taking it too far. For fellow liberals, suppose an evangelical did the same thing by speaking of how important "being saved by Jesus" is in public school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am my 41 years old, back then teachers won't talk about how awesome it is to be gay, I don't know if I had any single gay teacher because they didn't tell us their life story. they taught, they didn't teach us about PRONOUS or CRT either.

Of course you had a gay teacher you fool.

Exactly the PP's point. It's not something he/she needed to know.

Keep 'em in that closet don't you know! Maybe ask the teachers how they felt having to be closeted at work.

I don't think that's what the law is saying. I'm not here to defend it but perhaps it's similar to discussing religion. If it comes up incidentally (e.g., "Mr. Jones, what are doing for winter break? Oh, we're celebrating Christmas at..."), then it's not problematic. I had several gay teachers at my high school in the 1990s, including my drama teacher. We all knew about his partner and it did not matter. It shouldn't. However, I could see how pontificating on someone's identity might be taking it too far. For fellow liberals, suppose an evangelical did the same thing by speaking of how important "being saved by Jesus" is in public school?

I don't like this law because I fear overzealous bigots will capitalize on it, but I do generally agree with you about what's appropriate and what is not. Just not sure it needed to be legislated like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does this law mean that a teacher or staff that happens to be LGBTQ and gets "outed" would potentially be in violation of the law? It's one thing to limit the teaching of homosexuality to the curriculum or give parents an out (not that I agree with it), but it seems to be an entirely different matter to jeopardize someone's career simply for who they are, whether they've mentioned it or not.

This is what the bill (pre-expansion to higher grades) says: "Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Seems that it depends entirely on how it's enforced, and we don't yet know what that will be like. Is it "classroom instruction" for a lesbian teacher to mention her wife? Is it "age appropriate or developmentally appropriate" for her to do so? These terms aren't expanded upon in the bill.

Oh, if you're asking whether someone else, not the lesbian teacher, mentions her wife, then no, I don't think it could conceivably be read to penalize her for being outed by someone else.

"My wife and I went to the fair this weekend" is different than "I have a wife, not a husband and this is why"

Sure. Do you think the kid is going to follow up with a question - "you have a wife?" what is the teacher allowed to say?

Kid goes home and tells ultra conservative mom "my teacher said she has a wife" and ultra conservative mom cites this law and files a complaint with school board. Here we go.

[Anonymous]

Just saying we are on page 14 of this thread and STILL NOBODY HAS GIVEN ANY SPECIFIC PRIOR EXAMPLE OF A CHILD BEING HARMED BY EDUCACTION AT THEIR SCHOOL LEADING TO THIS LAW BEING NECESSARY.

Not a one example.

Meanwhile, kids are dying of gun shot wounds as the number one source of death and what are Florida representatives doing about that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:we came out alright and either of us were taught pronouns or CRT, or anything of this why changed something that isn't broken?

You weren't taught pronouns? Pretty impressive that you used two of them somewhat correctly!

[Anonymous]

If bans don't work and will never stop anything, why are Republicans wanting to ban everything and anything except guns?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If bans don't work and will never stop anything, why are Republicans wanting to ban everything and anything except guns?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the bigger question is why do conservatives think it’s cool to be a bigot. They don’t even try to deny it anymore. They fully embrace having one of the most socially unacceptable and immoral character flaws. I don’t get it.

Well, when your teachers and administrators start to encourage transition behind our backs and tell us that we, as parents, don’t matter, we tend to push back.

By “encourage” what you mean is “not condemn” a student who is trans. We know what you really want is to tell kids who probably already feel out of place that they are freaks and need to suppress their feelings.

We want them guided back to sanity by reasonable adults, not activists.

You want to push them to the brink of suicide is what you want.

the only thing a teacher does is call the child by their chosen name and use their pronouns. You are making up scenarios in your head to feed your narrative. If you want that much control over your children and prevent them from being exposed to others dissimilar to them, you should homeschool. Otherwise let the professionals do their job and shut up. Your ignorance is showing.

DP. You aren't paying attention. Or else you're unwilling to discuss in good faith. Not sure which.

Specific examples of harm to kids as a result of teaching in schools. Still waiting, pages later, nobody has anything but vague replies, smoke, mirrors and distraction.

Still waiting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/3958769-florida-education-board-approves-desantiss-expansion-of-dont-say-gay-reports/.



For all those who defended this because "little kids don't need to know about homosexuality" -- we told you this was coming.

12th grades are still babies in my book, I still have underwear and clothes that are 17-20 years old. We don't need to know what they are doing in the bedroom. we pay them to teach X2-X2/ Y2-Y1= OR Y=MX+B, we don't teach them to talk about their life style or personal life or whatever.

There were 12th graders (and 9th & 11th graders) HAVING babies at my high school.

Yep. First friend of mine to have a baby was 14 years old at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am my 41 years old, back then teachers won't talk about how awesome it is to be gay, I don't know if I had any single gay teacher because they didn't tell us their life story. they taught, they didn't teach us about PRONOUS or CRT either.

Of course you had a gay teacher you fool.

Exactly the PP's point. It's not something he/she needed to know.

Keep 'em in that closet don't you know! Maybe ask the teachers how they felt having to be closeted at work.

I don't think that's what the law is saying. I'm not here to defend it but perhaps it's similar to discussing religion. If it comes up incidentally (e.g., "Mr. Jones, what are doing for winter break? Oh, we're celebrating Christmas at..."), then it's not problematic. I had several gay teachers at my high school in the 1990s, including my drama teacher. We all knew about his partner and it did not matter. It shouldn't. However, I could see how pontificating on someone's identity might be taking it too far. For fellow liberals, suppose an evangelical did the same thing by speaking of how important "being saved by Jesus" is in public school?

Do you have specific examples of teachers pontificating about these issues?

My kids have grown up in an uber liberal district and no one has pontificated to them about gender or sexual identity. Nor are those topics off-limits. If you have a law specifically targeting the LGBTQ community it's going to make teachers fear saying anything about their single sex partner. It will. You can't deny that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am my 41 years old, back then teachers won't talk about how awesome it is to be gay, I don't know if I had any single gay teacher because they didn't tell us their life story. they taught, they didn't teach us about PRONOUS or CRT either.

Of course you had a gay teacher you fool.

Exactly the PP's point. It's not something he/she needed to know.

Keep 'em in that closet don't you know! Maybe ask the teachers how they felt having to be closeted at work.

I don't think that's what the law is saying. I'm not here to defend it but perhaps it's similar to discussing religion. If it comes up incidentally (e.g., "Mr. Jones, what are doing for winter break? Oh, we're celebrating Christmas at..."), then it's not problematic. I had several gay teachers at my high school in the 1990s, including my drama teacher. We all knew about his partner and it did not matter. It shouldn't. However, I could see how pontificating on someone's identity might be taking it too far. For fellow liberals, suppose an evangelical did the same thing by speaking of how important "being saved by Jesus" is in public school?

Have you ever met an evangelical? They do that constantly.

[Anonymous]

Liberals don’t like this law because we’ve been burned too many times.
This law will make it possible to fire gay teachers.
That’s it.
That’s the point.
We see it for what it is.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't have liked teachers promoting homosexuality to me in high school. I didn't even like it in college when the Shakespeare professor made a weak argument that Shakespeare was gay, and saying these are gay plays, at one point saying Greeks though the ideal relationship was between men and boys.

I don't know if Shakespeare was gay, but there is a stronger argument to be made for this if you go with Shakespeare didn't write the plays and it was instead the Earl of Oxford.