I will never understand why nice couples with children get divorced out of nowhere

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my DH cheated or had a midlife crisis and left, I would definitely want people to know that.

Then they will think..."what drove him to cheat?" It makes you look bad.

Stupid to air your dirty laundry. Super immature.

What a creepy comment, akin to "what did she do beforehand to be raped"....

No one drives anyone to commit horrible behavior. A cheater is a immoral person who had the potential all along. Often those red flags are missed. I know I will never rob a bank because of the way I was raised and morals I possess. Cheaters and liars are are the only ones that look bad, not their victims fyi.

Wrong. Sometimes people are terrible spouses and in transactional marriages. Men usually cheat in these instances. If there is literally no sex or withholding of sex as punishment for years then the man is not the only bad guy here.

Funny how you assume the cheating man was not a driver in first creating a “transactional marriage” (ie offering no emotional support, care, proactive involvement, real conversations, etc.). Like he can’t fathom how behaving that way makes his spouse not think of him romantically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

Most people aren't dumb PP. You want to respond with canned answers, go for it. Most non close friends won't ask because they don't want to get in the middle of it. Divorce is hell. But has to be done sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

I think if you don't want to say it for personal reasons, no problem. It wouldn't bother me.

The issue is when many women on here feel they can't say because it makes them look crazy/unbelievable/not good for kids. It's the agency that's important. I see posts of on here shame others for saying something like that and that is what I'm talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

I think if you don't want to say it for personal reasons, no problem. It wouldn't bother me.

The issue is when many women on here feel they can't say because it makes them look crazy/unbelievable/not good for kids. It's the agency that's important. I see posts of on here shame others for saying something like that and that is what I'm talking about.

DP, and a woman FWIW. I think in cases of abuse, some frankness is important so that other parties do not inadvertently expose the child to abuse because they believe a spouse is being wrongly disenfranchised. But outside of that narrow scope of cases, it is bad for children for marital woes to be aired out publicly in their community. Maybe this situation more frequently benefits dad, but it is true. If someone chooses to go nuclear and tell everyone in their neighborhood that their husband slept with the nanny, that is AWFUL for the kids. She shouldn't do it. She was wronged yes, but that doesn't excuse hurting her kids as well. And I really think less of parents of any stripe that engage in this revenge/smearing because all they are doing is satisfying a base need for revenge while injuring their kids.

You have kids, you have an obligation to protect them. I don't think that is sexist. And I think this is just as true for men as it is for women. No one is saying you CAN'T smear your ex, they are saying you shouldn't. Because even if they suck, they are still your kid's parent and the kid will still love them even if it is complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know there’s no abuse, adultery, or addiction?

Because its the close friend of my husband and he confirmed it. He's basically just...leaving her.

It never happens out of nowhere. My BIL left my SIL after 20 years and said he was just in a different phase of life. Two months later we found out that the different phase of life was 10 years younger and an office assistant that he worked with. Same for another friend--his partner left him after nearly 20 years and said he just needed a change. A few weeks later, he started attending parties with someone else.

Yeah, I'm kind of laughing at the idea that OP thinks that her husband's friend is going to announce that he's leaving his wife because he cheated on her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, first you don’t know. Maybe there is abuse, cheating, substance abuse you don’t know about.

But when it’s just a run of the mill, not abusive but mediocre marriage....I’m kinda with you. Once you’ve married and had kids with someone.....what do you think you are going to find that overall makes your life better factoring in the complications of blended families etc? Unless you really just want to be single and alone, I think the divorces often don’t make sense.

My BIL and SIL are getting a divorce and basically fit your description. But as a child of an acrimonious divorce I feel there is a lot there you are pretending doesn't exist. I couldn't even be around them because their dislike and resentment for each other just dripped off of them. The passive aggressive barbs etc. They were both abjectly miserable, the guy deeply depressed and the woman turning into a version of herself she hated. Their kids tuned into their discord and stressed from having to endure that. The parents were shorter and less patient with the kids because they were constantly in a state of anger/irritation.

Both of them are going to be better off single and alone and IMO the kids will be too. Parents being happy, or at the very least not miserable and being constantly sniped at and sniping, is good for the kids. Parents are better parents when they aren't dealing with constant anger at their spouse and can focus on their own space and responsibilities. Kids are happier when they don't feel like they are walking on eggshells through their own house.

But hey, nothing was that wrong, it was just a mediocre marriage. Maybe they just should have stuck it out and have everyone live in a state of perpetual stress for another 15 years.

This PP is right. People really have to stop acting like divorce is the end of the world. I grew up in a house where my parents basically hated each other. I had a bad marriage myself...it affected my own choices. I'm divorced. My kids have a much better childhood than I did.

Routinely arguing in front of the kids, passive aggression, depression, changing people into shells -- that is all MUCH worse than a mediocre marriage. That is emotional abusive and terrible for kids. THe tension always there. SUre there could actually be some underlying causes - an affair, a work addict, mental disorders, selfish slobs, neglect - but to have an eggshell house is abusive to all.

Mediocre marriages still have some respect at least. THe above does not.

The line between the above and what you describe is thin. And people drift across it without realizing it. You get there without ever realizing how it got so bad. And your kids picked up on it a long time before you did.

And most importantly, per the OP, this is a type of marriage that will look TOTALLY FINE to the outside. This is exactly the kind of marriage that ends the way OP describes, where no one knowing why on earth these people are splitting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

I think if you don't want to say it for personal reasons, no problem. It wouldn't bother me.

The issue is when many women on here feel they can't say because it makes them look crazy/unbelievable/not good for kids. It's the agency that's important. I see posts of on here shame others for saying something like that and that is what I'm talking about.

DP, and a woman FWIW. I think in cases of abuse, some frankness is important so that other parties do not inadvertently expose the child to abuse because they believe a spouse is being wrongly disenfranchised. But outside of that narrow scope of cases, it is bad for children for marital woes to be aired out publicly in their community. Maybe this situation more frequently benefits dad, but it is true. If someone chooses to go nuclear and tell everyone in their neighborhood that their husband slept with the nanny, that is AWFUL for the kids. She shouldn't do it. She was wronged yes, but that doesn't excuse hurting her kids as well. And I really think less of parents of any stripe that engage in this revenge/smearing because all they are doing is satisfying a base need for revenge while injuring their kids.

You have kids, you have an obligation to protect them. I don't think that is sexist. And I think this is just as true for men as it is for women. No one is saying you CAN'T smear your ex, they are saying you shouldn't. Because even if they suck, they are still your kid's parent and the kid will still love them even if it is complicated.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my DH cheated or had a midlife crisis and left, I would definitely want people to know that.

Then they will think..."what drove him to cheat?" It makes you look bad.

Stupid to air your dirty laundry. Super immature.

What a creepy comment, akin to "what did she do beforehand to be raped"....

No one drives anyone to commit horrible behavior. A cheater is a immoral person who had the potential all along. Often those red flags are missed. I know I will never rob a bank because of the way I was raised and morals I possess. Cheaters and liars are are the only ones that look bad, not their victims fyi.

Wrong. Sometimes people are terrible spouses and in transactional marriages. Men usually cheat in these instances. If there is literally no sex or withholding of sex as punishment for years then the man is not the only bad guy here.

Funny how you assume the cheating man was not a driver in first creating a “transactional marriage” (ie offering no emotional support, care, proactive involvement, real conversations, etc.). Like he can’t fathom how behaving that way makes his spouse not think of him romantically.

I am in is saying that sometimes there’s not a clear villain in a cheating scenario and sometimes both people contribute to the demise of the marriage if it was ever good to begin with. You’re way too focused on cheating or not cheating or whatever. Sometimes these scenarios are black-and-white and sometimes they are gray . Regardless, a reason for a divorce (where there is cheating or mental illness or alcoholism or emotional abuse or lack of respect or sexless or just a business transaction of a marriage, or a match to begin with who tried to make it work, disagreement about finances are starting a business or disagreements about in-laws and other family members or whatever, is irrelevant to anybody except the people getting divorced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

I think if you don't want to say it for personal reasons, no problem. It wouldn't bother me.

The issue is when many women on here feel they can't say because it makes them look crazy/unbelievable/not good for kids. It's the agency that's important. I see posts of on here shame others for saying something like that and that is what I'm talking about.

DP, and a woman FWIW. I think in cases of abuse, some frankness is important so that other parties do not inadvertently expose the child to abuse because they believe a spouse is being wrongly disenfranchised. But outside of that narrow scope of cases, it is bad for children for marital woes to be aired out publicly in their community. Maybe this situation more frequently benefits dad, but it is true. If someone chooses to go nuclear and tell everyone in their neighborhood that their husband slept with the nanny, that is AWFUL for the kids. She shouldn't do it. She was wronged yes, but that doesn't excuse hurting her kids as well. And I really think less of parents of any stripe that engage in this revenge/smearing because all they are doing is satisfying a base need for revenge while injuring their kids.

You have kids, you have an obligation to protect them. I don't think that is sexist. And I think this is just as true for men as it is for women. No one is saying you CAN'T smear your ex, they are saying you shouldn't. Because even if they suck, they are still your kid's parent and the kid will still love them even if it is complicated.

I'm the pp you are responding to. Not sure what I'm referring to is to say people should go "nuclear" in anyway. If there is someone that you want to let know, it's not a big deal if you do so. Of course, I also think that the kids need to know why you are divorcing in age appropriate manner. Again, it's saying something in an age appropriate manner. I think it's about being truthful in some way about a decision that impacts their life in such a big way. You and I may disagree on this approach but it is a matter of opinion and we should not not shame others who may have that opinion.

I think this assumption that saying the reason is going nuclear is where I have difference with most. I think you can just mention something factually without the drama without it being "nuclear". I think this is where some of the shaming comes in when people use those kinds of words. It should be left to each on how to deal with it without a judgement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

I think if you don't want to say it for personal reasons, no problem. It wouldn't bother me.

The issue is when many women on here feel they can't say because it makes them look crazy/unbelievable/not good for kids. It's the agency that's important. I see posts of on here shame others for saying something like that and that is what I'm talking about.

DP, and a woman FWIW. I think in cases of abuse, some frankness is important so that other parties do not inadvertently expose the child to abuse because they believe a spouse is being wrongly disenfranchised. But outside of that narrow scope of cases, it is bad for children for marital woes to be aired out publicly in their community. Maybe this situation more frequently benefits dad, but it is true. If someone chooses to go nuclear and tell everyone in their neighborhood that their husband slept with the nanny, that is AWFUL for the kids. She shouldn't do it. She was wronged yes, but that doesn't excuse hurting her kids as well. And I really think less of parents of any stripe that engage in this revenge/smearing because all they are doing is satisfying a base need for revenge while injuring their kids.

You have kids, you have an obligation to protect them. I don't think that is sexist. And I think this is just as true for men as it is for women. No one is saying you CAN'T smear your ex, they are saying you shouldn't. Because even if they suck, they are still your kid's parent and the kid will still love them even if it is complicated.

I'm the pp you are responding to. Not sure what I'm referring to is to say people should go "nuclear" in anyway. If there is someone that you want to let know, it's not a big deal if you do so. Of course, I also think that the kids need to know why you are divorcing in age appropriate manner. Again, it's saying something in an age appropriate manner. I think it's about being truthful in some way about a decision that impacts their life in such a big way. You and I may disagree on this approach but it is a matter of opinion and we should not not shame others who may have that opinion.

I think this assumption that saying the reason is going nuclear is where I have difference with most. I think you can just mention something factually without the drama without it being "nuclear". I think this is where some of the shaming comes in when people use those kinds of words. It should be left to each on how to deal with it without a judgement.

I am not the person you are responding to but kids do not need a reason for a divorce besides the fact that “Mom and Dad do not love each other like husband and wife and can’t stay married.” They truly do not need more details than that nor should they have more details than that.

[Anonymous]

You can’t control what people say when about why they are divorcing. Some people will lie to protect their image, others will disparage the other spouse to preserve their image, others will be so beaten down they don’t say anything, others will say something matter of fact and move on to better topics.

[Anonymous]

Because that nice woman was blowing tons of other men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

I think if you don't want to say it for personal reasons, no problem. It wouldn't bother me.

The issue is when many women on here feel they can't say because it makes them look crazy/unbelievable/not good for kids. It's the agency that's important. I see posts of on here shame others for saying something like that and that is what I'm talking about.

DP, and a woman FWIW. I think in cases of abuse, some frankness is important so that other parties do not inadvertently expose the child to abuse because they believe a spouse is being wrongly disenfranchised. But outside of that narrow scope of cases, it is bad for children for marital woes to be aired out publicly in their community. Maybe this situation more frequently benefits dad, but it is true. If someone chooses to go nuclear and tell everyone in their neighborhood that their husband slept with the nanny, that is AWFUL for the kids. She shouldn't do it. She was wronged yes, but that doesn't excuse hurting her kids as well. And I really think less of parents of any stripe that engage in this revenge/smearing because all they are doing is satisfying a base need for revenge while injuring their kids.

You have kids, you have an obligation to protect them. I don't think that is sexist. And I think this is just as true for men as it is for women. No one is saying you CAN'T smear your ex, they are saying you shouldn't. Because even if they suck, they are still your kid's parent and the kid will still love them even if it is complicated.

I'm the pp you are responding to. Not sure what I'm referring to is to say people should go "nuclear" in anyway. If there is someone that you want to let know, it's not a big deal if you do so. Of course, I also think that the kids need to know why you are divorcing in age appropriate manner. Again, it's saying something in an age appropriate manner. I think it's about being truthful in some way about a decision that impacts their life in such a big way. You and I may disagree on this approach but it is a matter of opinion and we should not not shame others who may have that opinion.

I think this assumption that saying the reason is going nuclear is where I have difference with most. I think you can just mention something factually without the drama without it being "nuclear". I think this is where some of the shaming comes in when people use those kinds of words. It should be left to each on how to deal with it without a judgement.

I am not the person you are responding to but kids do not need a reason for a divorce besides the fact that “Mom and Dad do not love each other like husband and wife and can’t stay married.” They truly do not need more details than that nor should they have more details than that.

The kids know why. Even the young ones. They should know right from wrong behaviors.

[Anonymous]

The kids’ therapist and kids’ attorney will cover it.