I will never understand why nice couples with children get divorced out of nowhere

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

I think if you don't want to say it for personal reasons, no problem. It wouldn't bother me.

The issue is when many women on here feel they can't say because it makes them look crazy/unbelievable/not good for kids. It's the agency that's important. I see posts of on here shame others for saying something like that and that is what I'm talking about.

DP, and a woman FWIW. I think in cases of abuse, some frankness is important so that other parties do not inadvertently expose the child to abuse because they believe a spouse is being wrongly disenfranchised. But outside of that narrow scope of cases, it is bad for children for marital woes to be aired out publicly in their community. Maybe this situation more frequently benefits dad, but it is true. If someone chooses to go nuclear and tell everyone in their neighborhood that their husband slept with the nanny, that is AWFUL for the kids. She shouldn't do it. She was wronged yes, but that doesn't excuse hurting her kids as well. And I really think less of parents of any stripe that engage in this revenge/smearing because all they are doing is satisfying a base need for revenge while injuring their kids.

You have kids, you have an obligation to protect them. I don't think that is sexist. And I think this is just as true for men as it is for women. No one is saying you CAN'T smear your ex, they are saying you shouldn't. Because even if they suck, they are still your kid's parent and the kid will still love them even if it is complicated.

I'm the pp you are responding to. Not sure what I'm referring to is to say people should go "nuclear" in anyway. If there is someone that you want to let know, it's not a big deal if you do so. Of course, I also think that the kids need to know why you are divorcing in age appropriate manner. Again, it's saying something in an age appropriate manner. I think it's about being truthful in some way about a decision that impacts their life in such a big way. You and I may disagree on this approach but it is a matter of opinion and we should not not shame others who may have that opinion.

I think this assumption that saying the reason is going nuclear is where I have difference with most. I think you can just mention something factually without the drama without it being "nuclear". I think this is where some of the shaming comes in when people use those kinds of words. It should be left to each on how to deal with it without a judgement.

I am the PP. And, for the record, happily married but the child of one acrimonious divorces and two second marriages that perhaps should not have happened. I think there is a lot of nuance here, I meant going nuclear to mean a pretty specific thing, which is where someone feels the need to ensure that the information is 'out there'. So they use no discretion in deciding who to talk to. I am not saying that someone cannot confide in a friend as to why their marriage fell apart. But I do believe that if the class mom gossip asks you about it at the bus stop and you 'mention something factually without drama' you are going nuclear. You are choosing to tell someone who you know will tell everyone. So I do not think women need to keep the secrets of someone who hurt them, but I do think they should be thinking of their children and using discretion when deciding who in their and her social circle she decides to tell.

And frankly, if I knew a couple where the man cheated and they were divorcing and the reason I knew that was because the mom was showing no discretion about the reasons and they had kids in a school system, I would think she was basically as bad as he was. Humiliating her kids in the same way that her husband humiliated her. Of course, he is responsible for all of it, but his bad choice does not abdicate her of the subsequent bad choice. If a bully at a school hits a kid and that kid in their rage and pain goes to hit another kid, then they are no longer solely an innocent victim. They just aren't.

As for what kids need to know or don't need to know. They already know. Parents are so stupid that they think they can hide this stuff from their kids. Outside the rare occasion, kids KNOW when something is going on. They live with you, they hear the whispered fights, the little passive aggressive digs, they snoop on your phones and phone calls, they know. And if they are young, then one day they will know. Someone will tell them, or they will get curious and dig and figure it out. And they will make their own decisions about the relationships they decide to have with their parents based on a holistic interpretation of the parents behavior. If one parent cheated and blew up the marriage than the kid will be angry and have to deal with that. If the other parent decided to spend the next 20 years being bitter and furious every time the kid talked about the parent? Then the kid will likely be angry about THAT and THAT will impact their relationship.

When it comes down to it, in a divorce, kids need to know that

1) Their parents love them
2) That is was not their fault
3) That it is not on their shoulders to choose a side

That is it. Any parent imposing more on them is doing so for selfish reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

You owe yourself the truth, and your kids, and any future relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

I think if you don't want to say it for personal reasons, no problem. It wouldn't bother me.

The issue is when many women on here feel they can't say because it makes them look crazy/unbelievable/not good for kids. It's the agency that's important. I see posts of on here shame others for saying something like that and that is what I'm talking about.

DP, and a woman FWIW. I think in cases of abuse, some frankness is important so that other parties do not inadvertently expose the child to abuse because they believe a spouse is being wrongly disenfranchised. But outside of that narrow scope of cases, it is bad for children for marital woes to be aired out publicly in their community. Maybe this situation more frequently benefits dad, but it is true. If someone chooses to go nuclear and tell everyone in their neighborhood that their husband slept with the nanny, that is AWFUL for the kids. She shouldn't do it. She was wronged yes, but that doesn't excuse hurting her kids as well. And I really think less of parents of any stripe that engage in this revenge/smearing because all they are doing is satisfying a base need for revenge while injuring their kids.

You have kids, you have an obligation to protect them. I don't think that is sexist. And I think this is just as true for men as it is for women. No one is saying you CAN'T smear your ex, they are saying you shouldn't. Because even if they suck, they are still your kid's parent and the kid will still love them even if it is complicated.

I'm the pp you are responding to. Not sure what I'm referring to is to say people should go "nuclear" in anyway. If there is someone that you want to let know, it's not a big deal if you do so. Of course, I also think that the kids need to know why you are divorcing in age appropriate manner. Again, it's saying something in an age appropriate manner. I think it's about being truthful in some way about a decision that impacts their life in such a big way. You and I may disagree on this approach but it is a matter of opinion and we should not not shame others who may have that opinion.

I think this assumption that saying the reason is going nuclear is where I have difference with most. I think you can just mention something factually without the drama without it being "nuclear". I think this is where some of the shaming comes in when people use those kinds of words. It should be left to each on how to deal with it without a judgement.

I am the PP. And, for the record, happily married but the child of one acrimonious divorces and two second marriages that perhaps should not have happened. I think there is a lot of nuance here, I meant going nuclear to mean a pretty specific thing, which is where someone feels the need to ensure that the information is 'out there'. So they use no discretion in deciding who to talk to. I am not saying that someone cannot confide in a friend as to why their marriage fell apart. But I do believe that if the class mom gossip asks you about it at the bus stop and you 'mention something factually without drama' you are going nuclear. You are choosing to tell someone who you know will tell everyone. So I do not think women need to keep the secrets of someone who hurt them, but I do think they should be thinking of their children and using discretion when deciding who in their and her social circle she decides to tell.

And frankly, if I knew a couple where the man cheated and they were divorcing and the reason I knew that was because the mom was showing no discretion about the reasons and they had kids in a school system, I would think she was basically as bad as he was. Humiliating her kids in the same way that her husband humiliated her. Of course, he is responsible for all of it, but his bad choice does not abdicate her of the subsequent bad choice. If a bully at a school hits a kid and that kid in their rage and pain goes to hit another kid, then they are no longer solely an innocent victim. They just aren't.

As for what kids need to know or don't need to know. They already know. Parents are so stupid that they think they can hide this stuff from their kids. Outside the rare occasion, kids KNOW when something is going on. They live with you, they hear the whispered fights, the little passive aggressive digs, they snoop on your phones and phone calls, they know. And if they are young, then one day they will know. Someone will tell them, or they will get curious and dig and figure it out. And they will make their own decisions about the relationships they decide to have with their parents based on a holistic interpretation of the parents behavior. If one parent cheated and blew up the marriage than the kid will be angry and have to deal with that. If the other parent decided to spend the next 20 years being bitter and furious every time the kid talked about the parent? Then the kid will likely be angry about THAT and THAT will impact their relationship.

When it comes down to it, in a divorce, kids need to know that

1) Their parents love them
2) That is was not their fault
3) That it is not on their shoulders to choose a side

That is it. Any parent imposing more on them is doing so for selfish reasons.

Wow, talk about defensive false equivalency. You equating a husband busting up his family and marriage due to cheating, to answering a question about why you are divorced and you say you were cheated on. OK.... And you think women aren't to tell their children what Daddy did even post divorce? wow.

[Anonymous]

Dad didnt take his meds.

that what we all said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

I think if you don't want to say it for personal reasons, no problem. It wouldn't bother me.

The issue is when many women on here feel they can't say because it makes them look crazy/unbelievable/not good for kids. It's the agency that's important. I see posts of on here shame others for saying something like that and that is what I'm talking about.

DP, and a woman FWIW. I think in cases of abuse, some frankness is important so that other parties do not inadvertently expose the child to abuse because they believe a spouse is being wrongly disenfranchised. But outside of that narrow scope of cases, it is bad for children for marital woes to be aired out publicly in their community. Maybe this situation more frequently benefits dad, but it is true. If someone chooses to go nuclear and tell everyone in their neighborhood that their husband slept with the nanny, that is AWFUL for the kids. She shouldn't do it. She was wronged yes, but that doesn't excuse hurting her kids as well. And I really think less of parents of any stripe that engage in this revenge/smearing because all they are doing is satisfying a base need for revenge while injuring their kids.

You have kids, you have an obligation to protect them. I don't think that is sexist. And I think this is just as true for men as it is for women. No one is saying you CAN'T smear your ex, they are saying you shouldn't. Because even if they suck, they are still your kid's parent and the kid will still love them even if it is complicated.

I'm the pp you are responding to. Not sure what I'm referring to is to say people should go "nuclear" in anyway. If there is someone that you want to let know, it's not a big deal if you do so. Of course, I also think that the kids need to know why you are divorcing in age appropriate manner. Again, it's saying something in an age appropriate manner. I think it's about being truthful in some way about a decision that impacts their life in such a big way. You and I may disagree on this approach but it is a matter of opinion and we should not not shame others who may have that opinion.

I think this assumption that saying the reason is going nuclear is where I have difference with most. I think you can just mention something factually without the drama without it being "nuclear". I think this is where some of the shaming comes in when people use those kinds of words. It should be left to each on how to deal with it without a judgement.

I am the PP. And, for the record, happily married but the child of one acrimonious divorces and two second marriages that perhaps should not have happened. I think there is a lot of nuance here, I meant going nuclear to mean a pretty specific thing, which is where someone feels the need to ensure that the information is 'out there'. So they use no discretion in deciding who to talk to. I am not saying that someone cannot confide in a friend as to why their marriage fell apart. But I do believe that if the class mom gossip asks you about it at the bus stop and you 'mention something factually without drama' you are going nuclear. You are choosing to tell someone who you know will tell everyone. So I do not think women need to keep the secrets of someone who hurt them, but I do think they should be thinking of their children and using discretion when deciding who in their and her social circle she decides to tell.

And frankly, if I knew a couple where the man cheated and they were divorcing and the reason I knew that was because the mom was showing no discretion about the reasons and they had kids in a school system, I would think she was basically as bad as he was. Humiliating her kids in the same way that her husband humiliated her. Of course, he is responsible for all of it, but his bad choice does not abdicate her of the subsequent bad choice. If a bully at a school hits a kid and that kid in their rage and pain goes to hit another kid, then they are no longer solely an innocent victim. They just aren't.

As for what kids need to know or don't need to know. They already know. Parents are so stupid that they think they can hide this stuff from their kids. Outside the rare occasion, kids KNOW when something is going on. They live with you, they hear the whispered fights, the little passive aggressive digs, they snoop on your phones and phone calls, they know. And if they are young, then one day they will know. Someone will tell them, or they will get curious and dig and figure it out. And they will make their own decisions about the relationships they decide to have with their parents based on a holistic interpretation of the parents behavior. If one parent cheated and blew up the marriage than the kid will be angry and have to deal with that. If the other parent decided to spend the next 20 years being bitter and furious every time the kid talked about the parent? Then the kid will likely be angry about THAT and THAT will impact their relationship.

When it comes down to it, in a divorce, kids need to know that

1) Their parents love them
2) That is was not their fault
3) That it is not on their shoulders to choose a side

That is it. Any parent imposing more on them is doing so for selfish reasons.

Above poster is 100% correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

I think if you don't want to say it for personal reasons, no problem. It wouldn't bother me.

The issue is when many women on here feel they can't say because it makes them look crazy/unbelievable/not good for kids. It's the agency that's important. I see posts of on here shame others for saying something like that and that is what I'm talking about.

DP, and a woman FWIW. I think in cases of abuse, some frankness is important so that other parties do not inadvertently expose the child to abuse because they believe a spouse is being wrongly disenfranchised. But outside of that narrow scope of cases, it is bad for children for marital woes to be aired out publicly in their community. Maybe this situation more frequently benefits dad, but it is true. If someone chooses to go nuclear and tell everyone in their neighborhood that their husband slept with the nanny, that is AWFUL for the kids. She shouldn't do it. She was wronged yes, but that doesn't excuse hurting her kids as well. And I really think less of parents of any stripe that engage in this revenge/smearing because all they are doing is satisfying a base need for revenge while injuring their kids.

You have kids, you have an obligation to protect them. I don't think that is sexist. And I think this is just as true for men as it is for women. No one is saying you CAN'T smear your ex, they are saying you shouldn't. Because even if they suck, they are still your kid's parent and the kid will still love them even if it is complicated.

I'm the pp you are responding to. Not sure what I'm referring to is to say people should go "nuclear" in anyway. If there is someone that you want to let know, it's not a big deal if you do so. Of course, I also think that the kids need to know why you are divorcing in age appropriate manner. Again, it's saying something in an age appropriate manner. I think it's about being truthful in some way about a decision that impacts their life in such a big way. You and I may disagree on this approach but it is a matter of opinion and we should not not shame others who may have that opinion.

I think this assumption that saying the reason is going nuclear is where I have difference with most. I think you can just mention something factually without the drama without it being "nuclear". I think this is where some of the shaming comes in when people use those kinds of words. It should be left to each on how to deal with it without a judgement.

I am not the person you are responding to but kids do not need a reason for a divorce besides the fact that “Mom and Dad do not love each other like husband and wife and can’t stay married.” They truly do not need more details than that nor should they have more details than that.

The kids know why. Even the young ones. They should know right from wrong behaviors.

Sometimes there are no "right" or "wrong" behaviors. Sometimes it is a bad marriage. Can you not understand that adult lives are private from chlidren's lives? No one knows if their parents are or are not having sex with each other. Not every divorce has cheating, which you you seem to think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first two replies nailed it.

There’s so little benefit to sharing serious marital woes. I recently read that most people can sustain sympathy for 3 days. After that, you are burdening them. Also everyone has a different threshold for what they think is bearable.

I don't think telling people about the reason is the same as complaining all the time. You can just say the reason for the divorce is XXX. Not sure there has to be drama behind it.

But I don’t owe you that information.

I think if you don't want to say it for personal reasons, no problem. It wouldn't bother me.

The issue is when many women on here feel they can't say because it makes them look crazy/unbelievable/not good for kids. It's the agency that's important. I see posts of on here shame others for saying something like that and that is what I'm talking about.

DP, and a woman FWIW. I think in cases of abuse, some frankness is important so that other parties do not inadvertently expose the child to abuse because they believe a spouse is being wrongly disenfranchised. But outside of that narrow scope of cases, it is bad for children for marital woes to be aired out publicly in their community. Maybe this situation more frequently benefits dad, but it is true. If someone chooses to go nuclear and tell everyone in their neighborhood that their husband slept with the nanny, that is AWFUL for the kids. She shouldn't do it. She was wronged yes, but that doesn't excuse hurting her kids as well. And I really think less of parents of any stripe that engage in this revenge/smearing because all they are doing is satisfying a base need for revenge while injuring their kids.

You have kids, you have an obligation to protect them. I don't think that is sexist. And I think this is just as true for men as it is for women. No one is saying you CAN'T smear your ex, they are saying you shouldn't. Because even if they suck, they are still your kid's parent and the kid will still love them even if it is complicated.

I'm the pp you are responding to. Not sure what I'm referring to is to say people should go "nuclear" in anyway. If there is someone that you want to let know, it's not a big deal if you do so. Of course, I also think that the kids need to know why you are divorcing in age appropriate manner. Again, it's saying something in an age appropriate manner. I think it's about being truthful in some way about a decision that impacts their life in such a big way. You and I may disagree on this approach but it is a matter of opinion and we should not not shame others who may have that opinion.

I think this assumption that saying the reason is going nuclear is where I have difference with most. I think you can just mention something factually without the drama without it being "nuclear". I think this is where some of the shaming comes in when people use those kinds of words. It should be left to each on how to deal with it without a judgement.

I am the PP. And, for the record, happily married but the child of one acrimonious divorces and two second marriages that perhaps should not have happened. I think there is a lot of nuance here, I meant going nuclear to mean a pretty specific thing, which is where someone feels the need to ensure that the information is 'out there'. So they use no discretion in deciding who to talk to. I am not saying that someone cannot confide in a friend as to why their marriage fell apart. But I do believe that if the class mom gossip asks you about it at the bus stop and you 'mention something factually without drama' you are going nuclear. You are choosing to tell someone who you know will tell everyone. So I do not think women need to keep the secrets of someone who hurt them, but I do think they should be thinking of their children and using discretion when deciding who in their and her social circle she decides to tell.

And frankly, if I knew a couple where the man cheated and they were divorcing and the reason I knew that was because the mom was showing no discretion about the reasons and they had kids in a school system, I would think she was basically as bad as he was. Humiliating her kids in the same way that her husband humiliated her. Of course, he is responsible for all of it, but his bad choice does not abdicate her of the subsequent bad choice. If a bully at a school hits a kid and that kid in their rage and pain goes to hit another kid, then they are no longer solely an innocent victim. They just aren't.

As for what kids need to know or don't need to know. They already know. Parents are so stupid that they think they can hide this stuff from their kids. Outside the rare occasion, kids KNOW when something is going on. They live with you, they hear the whispered fights, the little passive aggressive digs, they snoop on your phones and phone calls, they know. And if they are young, then one day they will know. Someone will tell them, or they will get curious and dig and figure it out. And they will make their own decisions about the relationships they decide to have with their parents based on a holistic interpretation of the parents behavior. If one parent cheated and blew up the marriage than the kid will be angry and have to deal with that. If the other parent decided to spend the next 20 years being bitter and furious every time the kid talked about the parent? Then the kid will likely be angry about THAT and THAT will impact their relationship.

When it comes down to it, in a divorce, kids need to know that

1) Their parents love them
2) That is was not their fault
3) That it is not on their shoulders to choose a side

That is it. Any parent imposing more on them is doing so for selfish reasons.

Wow, talk about defensive false equivalency. You equating a husband busting up his family and marriage due to cheating, to answering a question about why you are divorced and you say you were cheated on. OK.... And you think women aren't to tell their children what Daddy did even post divorce? wow.

I am speaking from the perspective of being the child of a divorce. And a couple other marriages that probably should have been divorces. No one needed to explain to me what the issues were. No one cheated but plenty of people behaved badly. My opinions of my parents are based on more than WHY their marriages didn't work, also how they reacted to those problems and how much they involved ME in them.

As someone who has spent far far too much of my life trying to not trip the more-wounded-feeling parent's emotions and had my own life milestones diminished by trying to ensure their emotional needs relating to their current and past marriages were met, yes I equivocate how one handles the fallout of the divorce to how one caused it. Walk a mile in the kid's shoes pp.

[Anonymous]

I know a way to help a more wounded person: Validate their feelings and wounds.

Then get them professional help to rebuild.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a way to help a more wounded person: Validate their feelings and wounds.

Then get them professional help to rebuild.

Ha. You are not a child of divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a way to help a more wounded person: Validate their feelings and wounds.

Then get them professional help to rebuild.

That is not your job or responsiblity. The only job and responsiblity is to be a good parent (in marriage and in divorce).