Why do people with demanding jobs choose to have 3+ kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People make snarky comments about having 3+ all the time but it’s been a life saver for these kids to have each other during the pandemic. They haven’t been lonely and still get tons of play. So we’re quite happy with having gone with more than the norm

YES. I have three (and a fourth on the way) and I say all the time that lacking any one of them would have made this much much harder. The oldest is old enough to loosely supervise the younger two when I'm in a different part of the house, the middle bridges the gap because the oldest and youngest are awfully far apart to play together, and the youngest entertains the middle when the oldest is doing schoolwork or reading a book. It's worked out beautifully, and having three is really honestly easier than having any two of them. So of course we're doing it again.

It’s easy as your oldest is a free bsbysitter. Not their job, it’s yours. Hire help.

And this is the most DC response on here. "Children need looking after? Don't encumber the little prince and princesses of the family! Hire (assumingly cheap and minority labor) to ensure that children of the family learn zero responsibility and start their wealth and privilege in life early on. Family work is the mother's job....but hire out if you need help. Never look to the family structure itself"

So much wrong here.

Nice try! I’m a Latina and agree with her.

I don’t get this at. all. You really think it’s a problem to have an eight year old prevent a two year old from drawing on the wall while Mom is, say, cleaning up a four year old’s vomit? Or to ask a two year old to grab a pack of wipes from the corner while you’re changing a newborn’s diaper? I’m not advocating leaving anyone in charge for an extended period of time, but the big brothers and sisters helping their younger siblings or their parents while their parents are helping younger ones seems...pretty reasonable.

Babies aside for obvious reasons, what are the last born kids doing?

My toddler helps with household chores and will continue to do so as she gets older. She will presumably have fewer siblings at home to share chores with when she’s a teenager. One day maybe she’ll watch a niece or nephew (or a visiting toddler) for five minutes while I’m emptying the dishwasher. The issue is basically that I expect my children to participate in whatever needs to be done around the house, within reason and as age-appropriate. “There’s broken glass on the floor, can you keep your sister out of the dining room while I clean it up?” Maybe the youngest kid will be asked to keep the dog out of the broken glass. Maybe the youngest will be asked to get the thing I forgot upstairs because by then I’ll have arthritis. Who knows.

[Anonymous]

Serious question: do you guys who are anti-older sisters supervising think it’s okay to ask your kids to fold laundry? Weed the yard? Set the table? Where’s the line between “things we do because we’re members of the family and the family needs this to be done” and “no, that’s the parent’s job”? Bodily fluids seem like the second case, except in extenuating circumstances...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question: do you guys who are anti-older sisters supervising think it’s okay to ask your kids to fold laundry? Weed the yard? Set the table? Where’s the line between “things we do because we’re members of the family and the family needs this to be done” and “no, that’s the parent’s job”? Bodily fluids seem like the second case, except in extenuating circumstances...

And I said sisters on purpose because it sounds like a lot of the reaction here is from personal experience of being expected to be a mini-mom to younger siblings which is definitely gendered, but in retrospect “brothers or sisters” is probably more accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question: do you guys who are anti-older sisters supervising think it’s okay to ask your kids to fold laundry? Weed the yard? Set the table? Where’s the line between “things we do because we’re members of the family and the family needs this to be done” and “no, that’s the parent’s job”? Bodily fluids seem like the second case, except in extenuating circumstances...

Your kids: your job
Your career: your job
Your kid’s homework: his/her job
Your kid’s McDonald’s job: his/her job
House maintenance: everybody’s job

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question: do you guys who are anti-older sisters supervising think it’s okay to ask your kids to fold laundry? Weed the yard? Set the table? Where’s the line between “things we do because we’re members of the family and the family needs this to be done” and “no, that’s the parent’s job”? Bodily fluids seem like the second case, except in extenuating circumstances...

I give my kids chores because they are the reason that those chores are necessary. The reason we have to set the table and do dishes is in part because they are eating. The reason we have to fold towels is because they use towels. I want them to understand that living requires work, and work is satisfying. I don't give them chores because I'm relying on them (in fact it would be so much easier for me to just do it all myself).

I do sometimes have my older child (a girl) babysit my younger one, but since childcare isn't part of maintaining a household in the same way other chores are, I pay her for it, and I do it as little as possible because I want to avoid her feeling like she has to take on adult roles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Oh wow! I was most definitely NOT neglected! My mom (and in many ways my dad) knew me so well! Yes, they were not around all the time and they gave me a lot of freedom growing up. They knew they could trust me and they knew exactly how much I could handle. We spent weeks just the 4 of us on a sail boat or in a car/ tents while crossing the Sahara desert. We did amazing things... quality things... but yes, my mom rarely cooked for us (and she was/is nit good at it), she rarely took us to swim/fencing classes, she did not monitor how much tv I was watching or how much time I spent doing homework, but she was absolutely present. I never had issues... always did well in school, etc. my brother had a harder time in school and my mom found the best tutor to help him (he is now a very well respected surgeon.
We always talked a lot and she knew ME. I had the best care (cleaning me, feeding me, taking me to activities) with amazing nannies/aupairs from all over the world (who taught me a lot).
I had the best childhood full of love and adventures and so many people who loved me (including my parents)

I had a friend growing up whose mom chose to stay at home. By the time he was 15, he was making fun of her and calling her “stupid” because all she did was cleaning her house and buying produce... she did a very crappy job being “present” in his life and nowadays the mom has almost zero contact with her kids... what a waste of a life if you ask me...

You know, for all the amazing things you claim to have, the bolded is one of the most staggering judgmental things I’ve ever seen posted on DCUM, and that’s saying a lot. Your friend sounds like an ungrateful jerk. It’s unfortunate that for all your wealth and amazing experiences, you have so little ability to conceive of happy lives that don’t mirror your own, or that, maybe, just maybe, a woman staying at home to raise children deserves respect from those children, rather than denigration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People make snarky comments about having 3+ all the time but it’s been a life saver for these kids to have each other during the pandemic. They haven’t been lonely and still get tons of play. So we’re quite happy with having gone with more than the norm

YES. I have three (and a fourth on the way) and I say all the time that lacking any one of them would have made this much much harder. The oldest is old enough to loosely supervise the younger two when I'm in a different part of the house, the middle bridges the gap because the oldest and youngest are awfully far apart to play together, and the youngest entertains the middle when the oldest is doing schoolwork or reading a book. It's worked out beautifully, and having three is really honestly easier than having any two of them. So of course we're doing it again.

It’s easy as your oldest is a free bsbysitter. Not their job, it’s yours. Hire help.

And this is the most DC response on here. "Children need looking after? Don't encumber the little prince and princesses of the family! Hire (assumingly cheap and minority labor) to ensure that children of the family learn zero responsibility and start their wealth and privilege in life early on. Family work is the mother's job....but hire out if you need help. Never look to the family structure itself"

So much wrong here.

Nice try! I’m a Latina and agree with her.

I don’t get this at. all. You really think it’s a problem to have an eight year old prevent a two year old from drawing on the wall while Mom is, say, cleaning up a four year old’s vomit? Or to ask a two year old to grab a pack of wipes from the corner while you’re changing a newborn’s diaper? I’m not advocating leaving anyone in charge for an extended period of time, but the big brothers and sisters helping their younger siblings or their parents while their parents are helping younger ones seems...pretty reasonable.

Babies aside for obvious reasons, what are the last born kids doing?

My toddler helps with household chores and will continue to do so as she gets older. She will presumably have fewer siblings at home to share chores with when she’s a teenager. One day maybe she’ll watch a niece or nephew (or a visiting toddler) for five minutes while I’m emptying the dishwasher. The issue is basically that I expect my children to participate in whatever needs to be done around the house, within reason and as age-appropriate. “There’s broken glass on the floor, can you keep your sister out of the dining room while I clean it up?” Maybe the youngest kid will be asked to keep the dog out of the broken glass. Maybe the youngest will be asked to get the thing I forgot upstairs because by then I’ll have arthritis. Who knows.

Translation: nothing extra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Oh wow! I was most definitely NOT neglected! My mom (and in many ways my dad) knew me so well! Yes, they were not around all the time and they gave me a lot of freedom growing up. They knew they could trust me and they knew exactly how much I could handle. We spent weeks just the 4 of us on a sail boat or in a car/ tents while crossing the Sahara desert. We did amazing things... quality things... but yes, my mom rarely cooked for us (and she was/is nit good at it), she rarely took us to swim/fencing classes, she did not monitor how much tv I was watching or how much time I spent doing homework, but she was absolutely present. I never had issues... always did well in school, etc. my brother had a harder time in school and my mom found the best tutor to help him (he is now a very well respected surgeon.
We always talked a lot and she knew ME. I had the best care (cleaning me, feeding me, taking me to activities) with amazing nannies/aupairs from all over the world (who taught me a lot).
I had the best childhood full of love and adventures and so many people who loved me (including my parents)

I had a friend growing up whose mom chose to stay at home. By the time he was 15, he was making fun of her and calling her “stupid” because all she did was cleaning her house and buying produce... she did a very crappy job being “present” in his life and nowadays the mom has almost zero contact with her kids... what a waste of a life if you ask me...

You know, for all the amazing things you claim to have, the bolded is one of the most staggering judgmental things I’ve ever seen posted on DCUM, and that’s saying a lot. Your friend sounds like an ungrateful jerk. It’s unfortunate that for all your wealth and amazing experiences, you have so little ability to conceive of happy lives that don’t mirror your own, or that, maybe, just maybe, a woman staying at home to raise children deserves respect from those children, rather than denigration.

DP and SAHM here. I disagree.

PP is not judging every stay at home mom. She is stating that this particular one wasted her life if she raised children who want to have nothing to do with her. I get your point that PP's friends should respect their mom. However, as a SAHM myself, I would feel like I wasted years at home with my kids if they ended up like PP's friend and his siblings. I am not blaming the SAHM necessarily, just admitting that I would feel like my time at home was wasted if my kids end up to be horrible people.

We might wish that this is not the case, but SAHMs who end up with horrible children are far more disappointed in their children than women who had careers. We feel like we gave up something even if it was completely our choice and even if we enjoy the years we spent at home. It's one of the risks of being a SAHM.

[Anonymous]

I'm a sahm of 3+ kids and I actually agree with PP. Very important for a sahm to have her own interests outside the home. Even if it's just trolling dcum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like there are people on here who devote their lives to their kids and feel threatened that there is another path. My mom had an intense career and my dad did as well (but he was useless). I am super close to my mom. I've never felt neglected and I've learned so much from her as I pursue my own career with a child. My husband had a stay at home mom who he isn't close to really... he says that he doesn't feel like she knows him DESPITE her being home all the time. My mom would always engage us in discussion in the car, on walks, in the kitchen and I told her EVERYTHING as a high school student and in college.

PEOPLE stay home if you want to stay home but don't think it will make you necessarily connected to your kids.

And please, the other poster was not neglected. Not sure if you know the definition of neglect.

This. My mothee was a stat at home mom. She has basically no relationship with either of her children, no relationship with my kids, and a very tenuous relationship with my siblings kids. She would have been a better mother working so she could have had her own life and we didn't have to deal with her poor mental and physical health.

+1 my experience too. Not everyone is cut out for SAHM. Not everyone is cut out to work out of the home. Not everyone is cut out to have kids, 1 or more. It just depends on your own capacity to regulate your own nervous system and energy so you can provide for others. I don’t understand why this is a question. The answer is obvious: they wanted to or made a choice to have 3 kids. Sometimes it is hard and sometimes it is fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I used to have a very demanding job and was on the road for over half of the time. I was concerned about having kids with a demanding career, so I crowdsourced feedback on another forum from adults who had parents who had jobs that often kept them from their children. I received comments from around 40 people and nearly all of them said it was the quality of time (being present, not distracted with work calls etc) and not the quality of time that mattered. Some people had a parent who was home all of the time but not a good parent and their relationship today is non existent. Thankfully now my career is more manageable but still can be busy at times so I always on quality over quantity of time.

Quantity without quality is bad, but quality without quantity is also bad. I agree with a PP who said you’re not going to be able to emotionally connect with your kids during Sunday brunch. You have to do some of the physical grunt work too. The morning and evening routines, thinking about their needs and knowing the little details in their lives.

Case in point: SIL and BIL worked crazy hours until their kids were in ES. Only then did they realize their kids had autism (one severe) and so they’ve cut back a lot to spend more time with them. But it’s a little too late unfortunately.

Really nasty of you to accuse them of this.

That aside, I grew up with very hard working parents. Both my parents had very big careers and spent little (but lots of quality) time with us. My dad was his own boss and took longer vacations... so we had him for that... my mom had very little time off. I never EVER felt neglected. Compared with my friends (many with stay at home moms) I have the closest relationship with my mom. I speak/FaceTime with her 3-4 times a day, she spent the first 5-6 weeks with each of my 3 kids with me and always helped me a lot. My parents gave me more in terms of experiences, values, love and money than any of the friends I grew up with. We are very very close... We had several baby sitters and my mom had several cleaning ladies. It was a great experiences growing up that way... I knew that they were working so hard for US so that we could travel to Africa, US, other European countries, etc. I went to very expensive schools and my parents never said no to any experience or anything related to education (they said no to cellphones, cars, clothes plenty of time)... they always made me understand the value of money and I did nit grow up spoiled... they were amazing parents and they spent little time with us, but plenty of quality time...
Imagine that nowadays we vacation together every summer (for weeks/months) and my kids think of my mom as their second mom... I hope I will be half the parent my parents were and my kids will be lucky!

You were neglected as you had a fancy private school and babysitters/house keepers/staff to care for you. You clearly valued material things/school/travel over time. To say you hope to be half the parents your parents were is easy, just pay people.

Oh wow! I was most definitely NOT neglected! My mom (and in many ways my dad) knew me so well! Yes, they were not around all the time and they gave me a lot of freedom growing up. They knew they could trust me and they knew exactly how much I could handle. We spent weeks just the 4 of us on a sail boat or in a car/ tents while crossing the Sahara desert. We did amazing things... quality things... but yes, my mom rarely cooked for us (and she was/is nit good at it), she rarely took us to swim/fencing classes, she did not monitor how much tv I was watching or how much time I spent doing homework, but she was absolutely present. I never had issues... always did well in school, etc. my brother had a harder time in school and my mom found the best tutor to help him (he is now a very well respected surgeon.
We always talked a lot and she knew ME. I had the best care (cleaning me, feeding me, taking me to activities) with amazing nannies/aupairs from all over the world (who taught me a lot).
I had the best childhood full of love and adventures and so many people who loved me (including my parents)

I had a friend growing up whose mom chose to stay at home. By the time he was 15, he was making fun of her and calling her “stupid” because all she did was cleaning her house and buying produce... she did a very crappy job being “present” in his life and nowadays the mom has almost zero contact with her kids... what a waste of a life if you ask me...

If you ask me, it sounds like your mom failed in life big time bc she raised a pos like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Status is part of it if I’m being honest but I wouldn’t have three only for status. I love being a mom but it feels good to project that we have enough money for three.

Thanks for being honest, PP. I'm someone who wouldn't have thought of the status thing. We're UMC, our kids go to private school, we live in a $1.5M house, have a boat, own horses, travel, etc. We could afford three but don't want more than two, which I guess is why it doesn't occur to me that having three signifies status in any way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, status NEVER crosses my mind when I see someone with 3 kids. Never.

lol...I was thinking that same thing. I really don't see how having multiple kids can be a status symbol.

DP, but for some people, more kids = more resources, more balls you're able to juggle, more "success" if you also work (think ACB and everyone fawning over her seven (seven!!!) children (she has it all!)).

There are easier ways to show you have resources. Vacation homes, private schools and tutors, nice house etc. I cannot believe that people make a third kid choice for “status.”

We want three because when we picture our family 15, 30 years from now we want 3 teenagers or adults sitting with us. DH is from a big family, I’m not.

I don't disagree that there are easier ways to show you have resources, but I absolutely think there are people who have a third (or fourth, now) kid to signal status. They may not even be aware of that as a factor, but I know way too many Type A people who get a charge out of their ability to display their professional and parental prowess by having 3+ kids. It wasn't why we have three kids, but is that a reason for some people? Totally.

Fascinating to hear this. I'm totally Type A and I do enjoy being able to "do it all" (i.e. hold down a well-respected and high-paying job, keep our large house in immaculate condition, participate in my kids' activities, make meals for friends in need, volunteer in the community, host fun parties - pre-COVID, obviously), but it would never occur to me that it would matter to anyone whether I was doing those things with two kids or three kids. I guess I could see people being more impressed the more kids you have but I honestly find that the weirdest reason ever to have another child (and I fully admitted to being someone who likes having people think I'm super woman).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Oh wow! I was most definitely NOT neglected! My mom (and in many ways my dad) knew me so well! Yes, they were not around all the time and they gave me a lot of freedom growing up. They knew they could trust me and they knew exactly how much I could handle. We spent weeks just the 4 of us on a sail boat or in a car/ tents while crossing the Sahara desert. We did amazing things... quality things... but yes, my mom rarely cooked for us (and she was/is nit good at it), she rarely took us to swim/fencing classes, she did not monitor how much tv I was watching or how much time I spent doing homework, but she was absolutely present. I never had issues... always did well in school, etc. my brother had a harder time in school and my mom found the best tutor to help him (he is now a very well respected surgeon.
We always talked a lot and she knew ME. I had the best care (cleaning me, feeding me, taking me to activities) with amazing nannies/aupairs from all over the world (who taught me a lot).
I had the best childhood full of love and adventures and so many people who loved me (including my parents)

I had a friend growing up whose mom chose to stay at home. By the time he was 15, he was making fun of her and calling her “stupid” because all she did was cleaning her house and buying produce... she did a very crappy job being “present” in his life and nowadays the mom has almost zero contact with her kids... what a waste of a life if you ask me...

You know, for all the amazing things you claim to have, the bolded is one of the most staggering judgmental things I’ve ever seen posted on DCUM, and that’s saying a lot. Your friend sounds like an ungrateful jerk. It’s unfortunate that for all your wealth and amazing experiences, you have so little ability to conceive of happy lives that don’t mirror your own, or that, maybe, just maybe, a woman staying at home to raise children deserves respect from those children, rather than denigration.

DP and SAHM here. I disagree.

PP is not judging every stay at home mom. She is stating that this particular one wasted her life if she raised children who want to have nothing to do with her. I get your point that PP's friends should respect their mom. However, as a SAHM myself, I would feel like I wasted years at home with my kids if they ended up like PP's friend and his siblings. I am not blaming the SAHM necessarily, just admitting that I would feel like my time at home was wasted if my kids end up to be horrible people.

We might wish that this is not the case, but SAHMs who end up with horrible children are far more disappointed in their children than women who had careers. We feel like we gave up something even if it was completely our choice and even if we enjoy the years we spent at home. It's one of the risks of being a SAHM.

I don’t necessarily disagree with your point that SAMH have a different profile of costs:benefits than working moms do. That sort of goes with the territory.

But to go on (and on and ON) about how amazing your upbringing was, and what an incredible relationship you have with your mother, and then to so casually disparage a woman as this PP does—it shows that for all the stuff and education and parenting, there’s something profound lacking. I think it’s fine for people to evaluate their own lives, less so for others to do it for us. This PP is showing zero empathy for a woman who made different choices than her own mother (and she herself) did. Whether I work or stay at home, I’d really wonder where I went wrong if my adult child went around claiming that someone wasted their life by not working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question: do you guys who are anti-older sisters supervising think it’s okay to ask your kids to fold laundry? Weed the yard? Set the table? Where’s the line between “things we do because we’re members of the family and the family needs this to be done” and “no, that’s the parent’s job”? Bodily fluids seem like the second case, except in extenuating circumstances...

I give my kids chores because they are the reason that those chores are necessary. The reason we have to set the table and do dishes is in part because they are eating. The reason we have to fold towels is because they use towels. I want them to understand that living requires work, and work is satisfying. I don't give them chores because I'm relying on them (in fact it would be so much easier for me to just do it all myself).

I do sometimes have my older child (a girl) babysit my younger one, but since childcare isn't part of maintaining a household in the same way other chores are, I pay her for it, and I do it as little as possible because I want to avoid her feeling like she has to take on adult roles.

Okay. But in the example given, the reason the little one needs supervised while mom unloads the dishwasher is because the older one has the scissors out to cut paper dolls. So, the older child's play IS the reason that the supervision is necessary.