Chances at HYP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD is a senior at a big 3 and is interested in HYP. 35 ACT, 3.9 unweighted most rigorous classes. No hook, but has played an instrument since first grade (no awards). We're full pay and she's thinking women's/gender studies . Chances? We are making her come up with some safeties but she has her heart set on HYP.

Is she checking that just to make it easier to get in? You don’t have to bow to your kid’s every whim. I say no to my kid whenever and wherever I feel like it. No way I’d allow “gender studies.”

What’s wrong with gender studies?

Nothing but it may prove difficult to find an employer that will pay you a living wage for your expertise. The reality is that students eventually have to find a job after college.

I feel like these posters disparaging gender studies are all state school graduates.

If you graduate from HYP with a major in just about anything, you'll get a job. You'll get into law school or med school or whatever you want to do. Many wall street jobs are filled by philosophy and anthropology majors. The smart employers want people who can think. Anyone who gets into HYP can learn skills, but knowing how to think is what they teach you at HYP, and that's a very rare, valuable and marketable skill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MIT publishes the share of applicants at various grade and standardized test combinations that it accepts. At your daughter's level that's something like 10%. With that data point you can make assumptions about the probability of admission to the schools your daughter has an interest in relative to MIT and any hooks or lack of hooks she may have.

One way to push yourself into that 10% is to have a very specialized interest, as a PP noted. There are a billion qualified candidates for HYP, all great kids, all of whom deserve to get in.

In the end, if the school needs a tuba player or a near-Eastern studies major or someone interested in some arcane STEM subject, they will choose that kid. Or if some kid's essay catches their eye, that kid will have a chance.

HYPS is pretty much a lottery these days, OP, even for the very best and brightest.

FWIW, I know a kid who went to a no-name college who got into one of the most competitive STEM graduate programs in the US.

The name of your undergraduate college doesn't matter all that much in the long run as long as your kid does well there.

Good luck, OP, and good luck to your DD. She'll be happy at lots of non-HYP schools, so she needs to apply to a handful of other great schools that she'll have a better chance at getting into. She might get lucky and get a spot at HYP, but it's more likely she'll lose the lottery, end up with nothing and be forced to take a year off.

[Anonymous]

Big 3 are not that good compared to NE top privates. Super smart but not rich kids go to TJ. A great but unhooked kid probably has a better chance into HYP at TJ than in big 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard is brutal. No one is happy. Students simultaneously desire to be the best while being filled with self loathing and despair. The food is terrible and the dorms are disgusting. There are mice in the rooms and turkeys lurking in the yard. I guess the academics are ok.

And anti-Harvard clowns posting nonsense on tailboards...

+ 1

My friend's son LOVED Harvard. He is super smart and needed to go to a school where not only the other students and professors challenged him, but he needed a university that offered graduate school classes he could take while still an undergraduate. He did really well at Harvard and is in a top grad program now. Some of my friends hated Harvard, but most were happy there. The dorms are old, so go somewhere else if you don't like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD is a senior at a big 3 and is interested in HYP. 35 ACT, 3.9 unweighted most rigorous classes. No hook, but has played an instrument since first grade (no awards). We're full pay and she's thinking women's/gender studies . Chances? We are making her come up with some safeties but she has her heart set on HYP.

First, your daughter has great stats. No school is going to reject her because of her stats.

Second, your daughter is full-pay. In the age of COVID-19, being full-pay is probably admissions officers' favorite extracurricular activity, even at the HYP schools. For the HYP schools, one of the glories of holistic admissions is that they can cheat and use expensive activities to identify and admit full-pay kids. The fact that your daughter went to a private school sends the message, "Probably has money."

Third, chances are the counselors at your daughter's school are great at getting kids into HYP.

Finally, your daughter is applying as a humanities or social sciences major in an age when everyone else is rushing into STEM majors.

I'm looking at the Niche version of the admissions scattergrams now.

At the HYP schools, on the scattergrams, the closest major to women's studies is philosophy.

It looks as if would-be biology and physics majors have about a zero chance of getting in with your daughter's scores, but as if would-be philosophy, history and English majors might have at least a 25 percent chance to 30 percent of getting in, based solely on stats.

That could be because would-be humanities majors are more interesting than would-be STEM majors, but it could be that even HYP are struggling to persuade kids to major in the humanities.

Backup ideas:

Amherst, for Princeton: I think the scattergrams imply that she'd have about a 50 percent chance of getting in as a humanities major.

Washington University, for Yale (similar architecture; flexible curriculum; laid back atmosphere): Maybe she'd have close to 100 percent chance of getting in as a history major.

Wellesley, for Harvard (near Boston; prestigious; shuttle to MIT): Nearly 100 percent chance of getting in as a history, English or interdisciplinary studies major.






Maybe a school like Amherst would be a good, slightly less selective alternative to Princeton. I think the scattergram shows she'd have a greater than 50 percent chance of getting into Amherst.

It sounds like you think "slightly less selective" means inferior, PP.

Do you think kids have numbers printed on their foreheads, and those with the higher numbers get into HYP, and the rest go to "slightly less-selective" schools?

I know kids who went to Amherst, Williams, Wesleyan, Haverford and Pomona, and wow! Every one of those kids is fantastically intelligent and talented. Most didn't apply to HYP because they wanted to go to a small school.

I know some very bright kids who went to HYP, but they are no smarter or talented or more interesting than the ones who went to those SLACS, "slightly less-selective" as they may be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD is a senior at a big 3 and is interested in HYP. 35 ACT, 3.9 unweighted most rigorous classes. No hook, but has played an instrument since first grade (no awards). We're full pay and she's thinking women's/gender studies . Chances? We are making her come up with some safeties but she has her heart set on HYP.

First, your daughter has great stats. No school is going to reject her because of her stats.

Second, your daughter is full-pay. In the age of COVID-19, being full-pay is probably admissions officers' favorite extracurricular activity, even at the HYP schools. For the HYP schools, one of the glories of holistic admissions is that they can cheat and use expensive activities to identify and admit full-pay kids. The fact that your daughter went to a private school sends the message, "Probably has money."

Third, chances are the counselors at your daughter's school are great at getting kids into HYP.

Finally, your daughter is applying as a humanities or social sciences major in an age when everyone else is rushing into STEM majors.

I'm looking at the Niche version of the admissions scattergrams now.

At the HYP schools, on the scattergrams, the closest major to women's studies is philosophy.

It looks as if would-be biology and physics majors have about a zero chance of getting in with your daughter's scores, but as if would-be philosophy, history and English majors might have at least a 25 percent chance to 30 percent of getting in, based solely on stats.

That could be because would-be humanities majors are more interesting than would-be STEM majors, but it could be that even HYP are struggling to persuade kids to major in the humanities.

Backup ideas:

Amherst, for Princeton: I think the scattergrams imply that she'd have about a 50 percent chance of getting in as a humanities major.

Washington University, for Yale (similar architecture; flexible curriculum; laid back atmosphere): Maybe she'd have close to 100 percent chance of getting in as a history major.

Wellesley, for Harvard (near Boston; prestigious; shuttle to MIT): Nearly 100 percent chance of getting in as a history, English or interdisciplinary studies major.






Maybe a school like Amherst would be a good, slightly less selective alternative to Princeton. I think the scattergram shows she'd have a greater than 50 percent chance of getting into Amherst.

It sounds like you think "slightly less selective" means inferior, PP.

Do you think kids have numbers printed on their foreheads, and those with the higher numbers get into HYP, and the rest go to "slightly less-selective" schools?

I know kids who went to Amherst, Williams, Wesleyan, Haverford and Pomona, and wow! Every one of those kids is fantastically intelligent and talented. Most didn't apply to HYP because they wanted to go to a small school.

I know some very bright kids who went to HYP, but they are no smarter or talented or more interesting than the ones who went to those SLACS, "slightly less-selective" as they may be.

i think when the PP says 'slightly less selective" they are talking about an acceptance rate of 12.8% at amherst vs an acceptance rate of 5.5% at Princeton. See - the way the English language works, if Amherst has a higher acceptance rate, they are less selective.

You have a serious chip on your shoulder that screams inferiority complex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:P.P.. I agree. This poster sounds sadly crazy to rejoice over someone else's failures.

It’s not only crazy, it’s cruel to call someone who worked hard a robot full of ambition without heart and run of the mill. Who are you to judge whether someone has heart? Plenty of smart people change course in their 20s, that doesn’t mean they don’t have heart or they’re run of the mill.

Oh yes, at her age, she’s still paying for her college and medical school loans.

Please get therapy. You are a sick, small person who obsesses over this person from high school years ago.

No apparently you are. Pls get financial counseling and put your finances in order so you are not triggered by big N O T H I N G S.

[Anonymous]

"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

PP is not arguing data. S/he is arguing logic. One poster clearly stated HYY degrees are overrated. Harvard knows the quality of its degrees. It knows it’s been watered down by legacies, donors, sports recruits, URMs...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

PP is not arguing data. S/he is arguing logic. One poster clearly stated HYY degrees are overrated. Harvard knows the quality of its degrees. It knows it’s been watered down by legacies, donors, sports recruits, URMs...

It’s not restricted to Harvard then. Every college has “watered” down their curriculum thanks to legacies, sports recruits and URM according to your theory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

PP is not arguing data. S/he is arguing logic. One poster clearly stated HYY degrees are overrated. Harvard knows the quality of its degrees. It knows it’s been watered down by legacies, donors, sports recruits, URMs...

It’s not restricted to Harvard then. Every college has “watered” down their curriculum thanks to legacies, sports recruits and URM according to your theory.

True. except you can’t buy yourself into MIT or Caltech. Charity cases can’t keep up with the work, unlike at HYP where these cases can hide behind sociology or other Mickey Mouse majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

PP is not arguing data. S/he is arguing logic. One poster clearly stated HYY degrees are overrated. Harvard knows the quality of its degrees. It knows it’s been watered down by legacies, donors, sports recruits, URMs...

It’s not restricted to Harvard then. Every college has “watered” down their curriculum thanks to legacies, sports recruits and URM according to your theory.

True. except you can’t buy yourself into MIT or Caltech. Charity cases can’t keep up with the work, unlike at HYP where these cases can hide behind sociology or other Mickey Mouse majors.

MIT considers race and has holistic admissions. https://news.mit.edu/2016/qa-stuart-schmill-considering-race-admissions-0624

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

PP is not arguing data. S/he is arguing logic. One poster clearly stated HYY degrees are overrated. Harvard knows the quality of its degrees. It knows it’s been watered down by legacies, donors, sports recruits, URMs...

It’s not restricted to Harvard then. Every college has “watered” down their curriculum thanks to legacies, sports recruits and URM according to your theory.

True. except you can’t buy yourself into MIT or Caltech. Charity cases can’t keep up with the work, unlike at HYP where these cases can hide behind sociology or other Mickey Mouse majors.

MIT considers race and has holistic admissions. https://news.mit.edu/2016/qa-stuart-schmill-considering-race-admissions-0624

MIT has non-STEM majors.