Chances at HYP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

PP is not arguing data. S/he is arguing logic. One poster clearly stated HYY degrees are overrated. Harvard knows the quality of its degrees. It knows it’s been watered down by legacies, donors, sports recruits, URMs...

It’s not restricted to Harvard then. Every college has “watered” down their curriculum thanks to legacies, sports recruits and URM according to your theory.

Nevermind that class profiles have steadily improved in the 21st century at these institutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD had similar stats and background and interests. Full pay too. Applied to Y and P. Beaten out by other student at her school with lesser stats and interests - both legacies and URM. Learned hard lesson as UMC white female.

Received large merit scholarships at SLAC backups. Very happy and no longer cares.

Prepare her for disappointment and have good other choices.

This is why my child does not tell anyone her stats.

Because you are legacy and URM applicant? Because you don’t want your child to have dreams smashed? Because you’re child is a super special weapon? The process is broken and opaque and ridiculous.

??? She doesn’t tell her classmates what her stats. It’s none of their business and only leads to gossip.

Nobody needs to tell anyone what his or her stats are. But don’t underestimate Harvard - or the general public. Harvard knows their own graduates better than anyone else. They won’t be hoodwinked by their own BS. And the general public job market, when they are shelling out $50,000-$200,000 per year in salary, will not blindly accept HYP degrees. The job market practices, you guessed it - holistic process - and will appropriately down grade HYP degrees. Employers know sometimes they are better off going to top state graduates.

My son interviews for one of the top IBs and he is told to hire black/Hispanic applicants and women.

Yes because most interviewers tend to choose people like themselves (unconscious bias) so my guess is, if he's being told to hire URMs and women, he is not one of those. By the way, in every company I ever worked in a professional capacity, those spots were taken by white women. Overall, white women have been the great beneficiaries of any sort of affirmative action in the workplace. There's nothing wrong with hiring women, but the point is to hire all sorts of diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD had similar stats and background and interests. Full pay too. Applied to Y and P. Beaten out by other student at her school with lesser stats and interests - both legacies and URM. Learned hard lesson as UMC white female.

Received large merit scholarships at SLAC backups. Very happy and no longer cares.

Prepare her for disappointment and have good other choices.

This is why my child does not tell anyone her stats.

Because you are legacy and URM applicant? Because you don’t want your child to have dreams smashed? Because you’re child is a super special weapon? The process is broken and opaque and ridiculous.

??? She doesn’t tell her classmates what her stats. It’s none of their business and only leads to gossip.

+1. DC is/will be an URM. Closest friends are legacies at HYP and/or faculty kids, though I've only discovered so organically over the years. I wouldn't divulge either in their shoes. DC can't conceal ethnicity but I discourage sharing stats for similar reasons.

Funny story...I do know an AA young man who got into HYPSM, CalTech, etc with a 4.0/1600 and outstanding ECs. People still said he only got in because of race. Nevermind that he got into Caltech, but anyway. When asked, he would troll people by saying he got an 3.3/1150 and watch them steam through phony smiles.

Funny, Thomas Sowell told a similar story of a UCLA student arguing with him over an Econ concept with him thinking prof Sowell doesn’t understand the textbook he had assigned in the course he was teaching. Exasperated, prof Sowell told the student he wrote the textbook himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

PP is not arguing data. S/he is arguing logic. One poster clearly stated HYY degrees are overrated. Harvard knows the quality of its degrees. It knows it’s been watered down by legacies, donors, sports recruits, URMs...

It’s not restricted to Harvard then. Every college has “watered” down their curriculum thanks to legacies, sports recruits and URM according to your theory.

Nevermind that class profiles have steadily improved in the 21st century at these institutions.

Exactly! These schools haven't "watered down" their curriculums! Back in the good old days, it was easier to be admitted and connections, money and having the right pedigree were even more important for admissions. We won't even go into how many of these schools were not open to women either until the 1970s or so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

PP is not arguing data. S/he is arguing logic. One poster clearly stated HYY degrees are overrated. Harvard knows the quality of its degrees. It knows it’s been watered down by legacies, donors, sports recruits, URMs...

It’s not restricted to Harvard then. Every college has “watered” down their curriculum thanks to legacies, sports recruits and URM according to your theory.

Nevermind that class profiles have steadily improved in the 21st century at these institutions.

Exactly! These schools haven't "watered down" their curriculums! Back in the good old days, it was easier to be admitted and connections, money and having the right pedigree were even more important for admissions. We won't even go into how many of these schools were not open to women either until the 1970s or so.

If they aren't watered down, how do you explain the fact that Harvard law really doesn't give a hoot about HYP grads when they select their class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

PP is not arguing data. S/he is arguing logic. One poster clearly stated HYY degrees are overrated. Harvard knows the quality of its degrees. It knows it’s been watered down by legacies, donors, sports recruits, URMs...

It’s not restricted to Harvard then. Every college has “watered” down their curriculum thanks to legacies, sports recruits and URM according to your theory.

Nevermind that class profiles have steadily improved in the 21st century at these institutions.

Exactly! These schools haven't "watered down" their curriculums! Back in the good old days, it was easier to be admitted and connections, money and having the right pedigree were even more important for admissions. We won't even go into how many of these schools were not open to women either until the 1970s or so.

If they aren't watered down, how do you explain the fact that Harvard law really doesn't give a hoot about HYP grads when they select their class?

I wouldn't characterize it as not giving a hoot. I would say that they pick from many schools. Many more students are going to college and law school now than 50 or even 30 years ago. More top schools are open to women, minorities, international students - and students from all those places are applying to Harvard law. Why should they only take their students when they can also take top international students and when the caliber of top students from the top SLACs is excellent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

PP is not arguing data. S/he is arguing logic. One poster clearly stated HYY degrees are overrated. Harvard knows the quality of its degrees. It knows it’s been watered down by legacies, donors, sports recruits, URMs...

It’s not restricted to Harvard then. Every college has “watered” down their curriculum thanks to legacies, sports recruits and URM according to your theory.

Nevermind that class profiles have steadily improved in the 21st century at these institutions.

Exactly! These schools haven't "watered down" their curriculums! Back in the good old days, it was easier to be admitted and connections, money and having the right pedigree were even more important for admissions. We won't even go into how many of these schools were not open to women either until the 1970s or so.

If they aren't watered down, how do you explain the fact that Harvard law really doesn't give a hoot about HYP grads when they select their class?

I wouldn't characterize it as not giving a hoot. I would say that they pick from many schools. Many more students are going to college and law school now than 50 or even 30 years ago. More top schools are open to women, minorities, international students - and students from all those places are applying to Harvard law. Why should they only take their students when they can also take top international students and when the caliber of top students from the top SLACs is excellent?

HYP students’ struggling against top international and SLACs students is given. What you are leaving out is the fact that HYP students also lose to Podunk University graduates.


https://hls.harvard.edu/dept/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/undergraduate-colleges/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

PP is not arguing data. S/he is arguing logic. One poster clearly stated HYY degrees are overrated. Harvard knows the quality of its degrees. It knows it’s been watered down by legacies, donors, sports recruits, URMs...

It’s not restricted to Harvard then. Every college has “watered” down their curriculum thanks to legacies, sports recruits and URM according to your theory.

Nevermind that class profiles have steadily improved in the 21st century at these institutions.

Exactly! These schools haven't "watered down" their curriculums! Back in the good old days, it was easier to be admitted and connections, money and having the right pedigree were even more important for admissions. We won't even go into how many of these schools were not open to women either until the 1970s or so.

If they aren't watered down, how do you explain the fact that Harvard law really doesn't give a hoot about HYP grads when they select their class?

I wouldn't characterize it as not giving a hoot. I would say that they pick from many schools. Many more students are going to college and law school now than 50 or even 30 years ago. More top schools are open to women, minorities, international students - and students from all those places are applying to Harvard law. Why should they only take their students when they can also take top international students and when the caliber of top students from the top SLACs is excellent?

HYP students’ struggling against top international and SLACs students is given. What you are leaving out is the fact that HYP students also lose to Podunk University graduates.


https://hls.harvard.edu/dept/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/undergraduate-colleges/

Well it doesn't tell you how many are from each school and, while some are podunk, most are state schools or smaller liberal arts colleges where kids may have gotten merit aid. I'm not sure that has anything to do with URMs though. Most of those schools do not have particularly high URM enrollment and one figure I just found (just a quick search) said that Harvard Law had 40 African-American students out of a class of 560.

[Anonymous]

Not sure what percentage of URM students go to colleges and study hard-core STEM. That's where the money makers are, and where opportunities are for employment. This is also where this country is falling behind. We need more people to focus on these areas, hard science, not those easy snailoil soft subjects.

[Anonymous]

Your daughter's stats are in the Common Data Set range for accepted students at HYP. My son just graduated from Harvard. Public school, white,full pay, non recruited athlete, non legacy and no national award. He had strong teacher recs, 4 year varsity athlete, good essay,34 ACT and class val . Harvard was a great experience for him. Let me know if you want any admissions tips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

PP is not arguing data. S/he is arguing logic. One poster clearly stated HYY degrees are overrated. Harvard knows the quality of its degrees. It knows it’s been watered down by legacies, donors, sports recruits, URMs...

It’s not restricted to Harvard then. Every college has “watered” down their curriculum thanks to legacies, sports recruits and URM according to your theory.

Nevermind that class profiles have steadily improved in the 21st century at these institutions.

Exactly! These schools haven't "watered down" their curriculums! Back in the good old days, it was easier to be admitted and connections, money and having the right pedigree were even more important for admissions. We won't even go into how many of these schools were not open to women either until the 1970s or so.

If they aren't watered down, how do you explain the fact that Harvard law really doesn't give a hoot about HYP grads when they select their class?

Because, gasp, someone from wright state uni can get a perfect LSAT and GPA too. And that’s a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what percentage of URM students go to colleges and study hard-core STEM. That's where the money makers are, and where opportunities are for employment. This is also where this country is falling behind. We need more people to focus on these areas, hard science, not those easy snailoil soft subjects.

We need good writers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Would a URM with H degree make a dent in the job market or in the wider world? Probably not. There’s a PP who said even Harvard Law disses H grads bc its watered-down degree doesn’t mean much."

I'm the PP and this is NOT what I said. The URM admits tend to be fantastic. And they tend to be successful later.

But there are not enough slots to admit even close to everyone with excellent stats, so plenty of colleges--not just HYP--end up with HYP caliber students. Later, when places like Harvard Law consider applications, they end up taking plenty of super smart applicants who did not go to (and often were rejected by) HYP for college.

Aha we have the poster ladies and gentlemen, who makes these sweeping pronouncements with zero data or evidence to back it up. She makes shit up all the time. Shit she would love to be true and may well be true but she doesn't actually know anything about.

You're such a time waster you should leave the college forum to people who know what they're actually discussing.

We are overwhelmed by the facts and evidence you included in your post.

PP is not arguing data. S/he is arguing logic. One poster clearly stated HYY degrees are overrated. Harvard knows the quality of its degrees. It knows it’s been watered down by legacies, donors, sports recruits, URMs...

It’s not restricted to Harvard then. Every college has “watered” down their curriculum thanks to legacies, sports recruits and URM according to your theory.

Nevermind that class profiles have steadily improved in the 21st century at these institutions.

Exactly! These schools haven't "watered down" their curriculums! Back in the good old days, it was easier to be admitted and connections, money and having the right pedigree were even more important for admissions. We won't even go into how many of these schools were not open to women either until the 1970s or so.

If they aren't watered down, how do you explain the fact that Harvard law really doesn't give a hoot about HYP grads when they select their class?

Because, gasp, someone from wright state uni can get a perfect LSAT and GPA too. And that’s a good thing.

And they can beat below-average students from HYP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your daughter's stats are in the Common Data Set range for accepted students at HYP. My son just graduated from Harvard. Public school, white,full pay, non recruited athlete, non legacy and no national award. He had strong teacher recs, 4 year varsity athlete, good essay,34 ACT and class val . Harvard was a great experience for him. Let me know if you want any admissions tips.

Please share. TIA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your daughter's stats are in the Common Data Set range for accepted students at HYP. My son just graduated from Harvard. Public school, white,full pay, non recruited athlete, non legacy and no national award. He had strong teacher recs, 4 year varsity athlete, good essay,34 ACT and class val . Harvard was a great experience for him. Let me know if you want any admissions tips.

Class val? Doesn’t sound like your kid graduated from a competitive metro area high school (I didn’t either!). So your tips might not be applicable to posters here.