What’s wrong with William & Mary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear from a quick google that the school and many alumni are aware of the rankings erosion and are concerned. Rankings might be dumb but they are the coin of the realm.

Uh, rankings are up: "In those, William & Mary ranked 45th overall and 29th among best public colleges. In the Wall Street Journal/Times Higher Education ranking, released in early September, W&M ranked 79th among all universities. That number is up from 87th last year and 100th the year before."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear from a quick google that the school and many alumni are aware of the rankings erosion and are concerned. Rankings might be dumb but they are the coin of the realm.

Uh, rankings are up: "In those, William & Mary ranked 45th overall and 29th among best public colleges. In the Wall Street Journal/Times Higher Education ranking, released in early September, W&M ranked 79th among all universities. That number is up from 87th last year and 100th the year before."

Its USNWR ranking, long steady at around 31-32, dropped to 38 when they changed their metrics. A key new metric is amount of Pell Grant recipients and W&M has fewer compared to its peers. Personally I care more about how Pell grant recipients do at a college (and afterwards) than how many a school has, but it has impacted that ranking. I would never interpret this as a sign of W&M decline, but I could see how it could have an impact. Top students in VA currently decide between UVA and W&M on taste rather than a perception one is better. But if UVA trends up and W&M trends down in rankings (arbitrary as they may be), I could see students picking otherwise. Esp. since W&M costs a bit more.

[Anonymous]

You have to work hard to even be poor enough to be Pell grant recipient. I can see that W&M would be too hard for this cohort. Not a metric I care about. But for those who do try another school. Plenty to choose from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have to work hard to even be poor enough to be Pell grant recipient. I can see that W&M would be too hard for this cohort. Not a metric I care about. But for those who do try another school. Plenty to choose from.

The Virginia public schools typically have a much lower percentages of Pell Grant recipient than you see in states like California. It may be related to demographics and income distributions.

[Anonymous]

There are likely ulterior motives to these threads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are likely ulterior motives to these threads.

Ah, a conspiracy theory. Adds intrigue to the discussion. I like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are likely ulterior motives to these threads.

Ah, a conspiracy theory. Adds intrigue to the discussion. I like it.

They aren't the same thing. A conspiracy is by a group. Ulterior motives can be and often are behind individual actions.

[Anonymous]

That campus is one of my favorite places anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear from a quick google that the school and many alumni are aware of the rankings erosion and are concerned. Rankings might be dumb but they are the coin of the realm.

links?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are likely ulterior motives to these threads.

You are wrong. Full stop. Genuine concern about an American treasure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that it doesn’t really have a bright future as a public school. In a time of increased popularity for many Virginia public universities, William & Mary seems to be caught in a downward spiral. Its application numbers are stagnant, its female-male ratio is ridiculous, its acceptance rate has increased to almost 40 percent, its yield rate is terrible, it’s poorly positioned in terms of tech growth, it’s very expensive, and it’s now looking to increase (?) enrollment because it needs the bucks. Discouraging my kid from applying. Is it time for the school to consider becoming a private college or to affiliate with Tech or something?

UNC and Emory have the same gender balance.

For 2018 entering class, UVA was 57% female, VCU 64%, JMU 59%, Longwood 69%, CNU 56%, MWU 66%, Radford 59%, ODU 53%. Only male majority were VT at 55% male and VMI at 83% male. GMU was 50/50. UNC-CH was 59% female. National is close to 58 percent.

+1. My son is applying to WM and SLACs. I told him to enjoy the one time in his life that he will Ben’s for from affirmative action. His sister works harder and has better grades. Should have equivalent test scores. And will have a harder time in college admissions because she isn’t looking at hardcore STEM.

College admissions is where you really see the results of girls having earlier prefrontal cortex development and better executive functioning.

And the feminization of the American education system. We have had 'girl' programs for the past 20 years while the boys continue to fall behind.

W&M alum here, and though it's un-PC to say, I think the above is contributing to W&M's "decline," as PPs are calling it. There are more girls interested in W&M than boys, making it EXTREMELY competitive, especially for OOS girl applicants. Boys definitely get a huge bump in admissions (I think 50% of guys get in ED, IIRC), but the vast majority don't end up matriculating. So you have the gender imbalance to start, plus a lack of sports teams (football games were mainly attended by townies and families with small kids; very few students) and that ends up affecting the courses offered, student programming, etc. Don't get me wrong, W&M is a great place, but it's not attracting boys in droves (which made a lot of girls who came to campus for their MRS degree rather unhappy!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that it doesn’t really have a bright future as a public school. In a time of increased popularity for many Virginia public universities, William & Mary seems to be caught in a downward spiral. Its application numbers are stagnant, its female-male ratio is ridiculous, its acceptance rate has increased to almost 40 percent, its yield rate is terrible, it’s poorly positioned in terms of tech growth, it’s very expensive, and it’s now looking to increase (?) enrollment because it needs the bucks. Discouraging my kid from applying. Is it time for the school to consider becoming a private college or to affiliate with Tech or something?

UNC and Emory have the same gender balance.

For 2018 entering class, UVA was 57% female, VCU 64%, JMU 59%, Longwood 69%, CNU 56%, MWU 66%, Radford 59%, ODU 53%. Only male majority were VT at 55% male and VMI at 83% male. GMU was 50/50. UNC-CH was 59% female. National is close to 58 percent.

+1. My son is applying to WM and SLACs. I told him to enjoy the one time in his life that he will Ben’s for from affirmative action. His sister works harder and has better grades. Should have equivalent test scores. And will have a harder time in college admissions because she isn’t looking at hardcore STEM.

College admissions is where you really see the results of girls having earlier prefrontal cortex development and better executive functioning.

And the feminization of the American education system. We have had 'girl' programs for the past 20 years while the boys continue to fall behind.

W&M alum here, and though it's un-PC to say, I think the above is contributing to W&M's "decline," as PPs are calling it. There are more girls interested in W&M than boys, making it EXTREMELY competitive, especially for OOS girl applicants. Boys definitely get a huge bump in admissions (I think 50% of guys get in ED, IIRC), but the vast majority don't end up matriculating. So you have the gender imbalance to start, plus a lack of sports teams (football games were mainly attended by townies and families with small kids; very few students) and that ends up affecting the courses offered, student programming, etc. Don't get me wrong, W&M is a great place, but it's not attracting boys in droves (which made a lot of girls who came to campus for their MRS degree rather unhappy!).

Yep. No sports and no engineering school makes W&M less attractive to boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that it doesn’t really have a bright future as a public school. In a time of increased popularity for many Virginia public universities, William & Mary seems to be caught in a downward spiral. Its application numbers are stagnant, its female-male ratio is ridiculous, its acceptance rate has increased to almost 40 percent, its yield rate is terrible, it’s poorly positioned in terms of tech growth, it’s very expensive, and it’s now looking to increase (?) enrollment because it needs the bucks. Discouraging my kid from applying. Is it time for the school to consider becoming a private college or to affiliate with Tech or something?

UNC and Emory have the same gender balance.

For 2018 entering class, UVA was 57% female, VCU 64%, JMU 59%, Longwood 69%, CNU 56%, MWU 66%, Radford 59%, ODU 53%. Only male majority were VT at 55% male and VMI at 83% male. GMU was 50/50. UNC-CH was 59% female. National is close to 58 percent.

+1. My son is applying to WM and SLACs. I told him to enjoy the one time in his life that he will Ben’s for from affirmative action. His sister works harder and has better grades. Should have equivalent test scores. And will have a harder time in college admissions because she isn’t looking at hardcore STEM.

College admissions is where you really see the results of girls having earlier prefrontal cortex development and better executive functioning.

And the feminization of the American education system. We have had 'girl' programs for the past 20 years while the boys continue to fall behind.

W&M alum here, and though it's un-PC to say, I think the above is contributing to W&M's "decline," as PPs are calling it. There are more girls interested in W&M than boys, making it EXTREMELY competitive, especially for OOS girl applicants. Boys definitely get a huge bump in admissions (I think 50% of guys get in ED, IIRC), but the vast majority don't end up matriculating. So you have the gender imbalance to start, plus a lack of sports teams (football games were mainly attended by townies and families with small kids; very few students) and that ends up affecting the courses offered, student programming, etc. Don't get me wrong, W&M is a great place, but it's not attracting boys in droves (which made a lot of girls who came to campus for their MRS degree rather unhappy!).

Yep. No sports and no engineering school makes W&M less attractive to boys.

I think it's 45%. But there's not meaningful differences between SAT scores of boys vs. girls (girls do have higher GPAs on average) and the female tilt is not that much more extreme than other state schools. I think rumors of its decline are overblown. It seems to be doing fine--attracting strong students, retaining them over 4 years, they graduate happy and they earn solid salaries and contribute back to the school.

[Anonymous]

W&M could be attracting more applications, but stats of enrolled students continue to go up, completion rates are among the highest of all public universities, alumni giving rate is the highest of all public national universities, student loan default rate has been either the lowest or next to lowest of all public universities over time.

The gender balance keeps getting cited, but it should be kept in context. It is not really out of line with other colleges in Virginia or Nationally (57% female). Here is percent female at a number of schools (Fall 2018 enrolled):

Longwood 69%
MWU 66%
VCU 64%
Radford 64%
UNC-Chapel Hill 62%
JMU 59%
W&M 59%
UVA 57%
W&L 57%
United States 57%
State of Virginia 56%
CNU 56%
ODU 53%
Richmond 51%
GMU 50%
Virginia Tech 45%
VMI 17%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:W&M could be attracting more applications, but stats of enrolled students continue to go up, completion rates are among the highest of all public universities, alumni giving rate is the highest of all public national universities, student loan default rate has been either the lowest or next to lowest of all public universities over time.

The gender balance keeps getting cited, but it should be kept in context. It is not really out of line with other colleges in Virginia or Nationally (57% female). Here is percent female at a number of schools (Fall 2018 enrolled):

Longwood 69%
MWU 66%
VCU 64%
Radford 64%
UNC-Chapel Hill 62%
JMU 59%
W&M 59%
UVA 57%
W&L 57%
United States 57%
State of Virginia 56%
CNU 56%
ODU 53%
Richmond 51%
GMU 50%
Virginia Tech 45%
VMI 17%

+1. There's nothing wrong with W&M. OP's kid just didn't get in ED 1.