What’s wrong with William & Mary?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:NP, my two sport, 4.0+ freshman son has walked through UVA, W&L and W&M. After our quick walkthrough his initial impression is W&L is too small and hilly(?). It was 95 degrees. UVA was dirty (??). Don't know what that means and W&M was AWESOME. One dumb kid's perspective!

W&L campus is pretty flat. But hey, gotta narrow it down somehow.

Not going to a school with the name “Lee” in it is always a prudent move.

Or Stanford. Or Amherst.

I disagree with that, especially with respect to Stanford, To be sure, Amherst is so 1988.

You disagree that Leland Stanford and Lord Amherst were racists? Do tell.

No idea. Did they lead the Confederacy’s military operations?

You’re ignorant and clearly enjoy it or you’d look it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s nothing wrong with William & Mary. Clearly, OP’s kid didn’t get into W&M via ED 1 so has an axe to grind.

False. As the oldest college in America, it is a venerable place. However, the numbers I mentioned should serve as alarm bells to the administration.

Harvard is the oldest in the U.S. William & Mary is second oldest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s nothing wrong with William & Mary. Clearly, OP’s kid didn’t get into W&M via ED 1 so has an axe to grind.

False. As the oldest college in America, it is a venerable place. However, the numbers I mentioned should serve as alarm bells to the administration.

Harvard is the oldest in the U.S. William & Mary is second oldest.

That’s right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP, my two sport, 4.0+ freshman son has walked through UVA, W&L and W&M. After our quick walkthrough his initial impression is W&L is too small and hilly(?). It was 95 degrees. UVA was dirty (??). Don't know what that means and W&M was AWESOME. One dumb kid's perspective!

More women to choose from ?

Why is he already looking at colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP, my two sport, 4.0+ freshman son has walked through UVA, W&L and W&M. After our quick walkthrough his initial impression is W&L is too small and hilly(?). It was 95 degrees. UVA was dirty (??). Don't know what that means and W&M was AWESOME. One dumb kid's perspective!

More women to choose from ?

Why is he already looking at colleges?

P.P. Walking through the campuses. Why do you care?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that it doesn’t really have a bright future as a public school. In a time of increased popularity for many Virginia public universities, William & Mary seems to be caught in a downward spiral. Its application numbers are stagnant, its female-male ratio is ridiculous, its acceptance rate has increased to almost 40 percent, its yield rate is terrible, it’s poorly positioned in terms of tech growth, it’s very expensive, and it’s now looking to increase (?) enrollment because it needs the bucks. Discouraging my kid from applying. Is it time for the school to consider becoming a private college or to affiliate with Tech or something?

UNC and Emory have the same gender balance.

For 2018 entering class, UVA was 57% female, VCU 64%, JMU 59%, Longwood 69%, CNU 56%, MWU 66%, Radford 59%, ODU 53%. Only male majority were VT at 55% male and VMI at 83% male. GMU was 50/50. UNC-CH was 59% female. National is close to 58 percent.

+1. My son is applying to WM and SLACs. I told him to enjoy the one time in his life that he will Ben’s for from affirmative action. His sister works harder and has better grades. Should have equivalent test scores. And will have a harder time in college admissions because she isn’t looking at hardcore STEM.

College admissions is where you really see the results of girls having earlier prefrontal cortex development and better executive functioning.

And the feminization of the American education system. We have had 'girl' programs for the past 20 years while the boys continue to fall behind.

[Anonymous]

I've been impressed with my son's education at W&M thus far (2nd year student). The grading and courses are tough, the professors generally supportive, the other students tend to be hard-working, and there are meaningful research/professional experiences available to undergraduates. I especially like their "COLL" curriculum which is an approach to liberal arts that goes through the 4 years rather than just the first two and really focuses on developing research/writing/critical thinking. I've seen the detailed thoughtful responses to written work from professors and they are really holding the students to a high standard. My son has struggled but grown intellectually a lot. He likes it there, but his friends at other schools seem to more unequivocally find college fun, which can make him jealous. He definitely works harder. I think he has grown up more than they have but I may be biased. It strikes me (and him) as what a college should be like (i.e., high standards, primarily focused on academics, serious instruction in both liberal arts and specialized major), but I can see why some 18 year olds might not want that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Applications could be falling because W&M is expensive.

Has it gotten more expensive? More so than every other college?

Certainly not with “every other college.” Tuition gets frozen after you’re in, which is nice, but entering students get a not insignificant increase. Good return on investment, in state, in my view. And pretty good out of state still, I think, if we’re pretty much talking about a core group of out of state students from NJ/NY who didn’t want to go to their bad state schools and were rejected by Ivies (or Duke Duke-like places).

W&M uses high tuition to provide relatively high aid. If you look at average graduate debt, W&M is about the same as UVA and lower than VT, JMU, and GMU.

And it’s been fairly successful at “buying” top students with scholarships or partial scholarships.

The increase in aid from tuition goes to financial aid, not merit aid. The merit aid scholarships are privately funded (e.g. 1693 Scholars).

OK, but so what?

Simply clarifies that most aid is financial aid, not merit aid. See above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applications could be falling because W&M is expensive.

Has it gotten more expensive? More so than every other college?

Certainly not with “every other college.” Tuition gets frozen after you’re in, which is nice, but entering students get a not insignificant increase. Good return on investment, in state, in my view. And pretty good out of state still, I think, if we’re pretty much talking about a core group of out of state students from NJ/NY who didn’t want to go to their bad state schools and were rejected by Ivies (or Duke Duke-like places).

W&M uses high tuition to provide relatively high aid. If you look at average graduate debt, W&M is about the same as UVA and lower than VT, JMU, and GMU.

And it’s been fairly successful at “buying” top students with scholarships or partial scholarships.

The increase in aid from tuition goes to financial aid, not merit aid. The merit aid scholarships are privately funded (e.g. 1693 Scholars).

OK, but so what?

Simply clarifies that most aid is financial aid, not merit aid. See above.

NP - but further to clarify, that is true amongst almost all the VA public universities because they are already discounted for in-state. And merit aid has dried up at the Ivies and elite SLACs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applications could be falling because W&M is expensive.

Has it gotten more expensive? More so than every other college?

Certainly not with “every other college.” Tuition gets frozen after you’re in, which is nice, but entering students get a not insignificant increase. Good return on investment, in state, in my view. And pretty good out of state still, I think, if we’re pretty much talking about a core group of out of state students from NJ/NY who didn’t want to go to their bad state schools and were rejected by Ivies (or Duke Duke-like places).

W&M uses high tuition to provide relatively high aid. If you look at average graduate debt, W&M is about the same as UVA and lower than VT, JMU, and GMU.

And it’s been fairly successful at “buying” top students with scholarships or partial scholarships.

The increase in aid from tuition goes to financial aid, not merit aid. The merit aid scholarships are privately funded (e.g. 1693 Scholars).

OK, but so what?

Simply clarifies that most aid is financial aid, not merit aid. See above.

NP - but further to clarify, that is true amongst almost all the VA public universities because they are already discounted for in-state. And merit aid has dried up at the Ivies and elite SLACs.

Not sure how far “down” you think elite goes, but there are many SLACs in the top 25 that offer good merit aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been impressed with my son's education at W&M thus far (2nd year student). The grading and courses are tough, the professors generally supportive, the other students tend to be hard-working, and there are meaningful research/professional experiences available to undergraduates. I especially like their "COLL" curriculum which is an approach to liberal arts that goes through the 4 years rather than just the first two and really focuses on developing research/writing/critical thinking. I've seen the detailed thoughtful responses to written work from professors and they are really holding the students to a high standard. My son has struggled but grown intellectually a lot. He likes it there, but his friends at other schools seem to more unequivocally find college fun, which can make him jealous. He definitely works harder. I think he has grown up more than they have but I may be biased. It strikes me (and him) as what a college should be like (i.e., high standards, primarily focused on academics, serious instruction in both liberal arts and specialized major), but I can see why some 18 year olds might not want that.

I had somewhat similar feelings some 20 years ago. Th school held me to a very high standard, and I wasn’t fully prepared for it by my big box FCPS high school. But I found my rhythm, and I am forever grateful for the lessons I learned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s nothing wrong with William & Mary. Clearly, OP’s kid didn’t get into W&M via ED 1 so has an axe to grind.

False. As the oldest college in America, it is a venerable place. However, the numbers I mentioned should serve as alarm bells to the administration.

Your numbers aren't accurate or don't reflect what you think they reflect. W&M is doing just fine.

They are not meaningful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s nothing wrong with William & Mary. Clearly, OP’s kid didn’t get into W&M via ED 1 so has an axe to grind.

False. As the oldest college in America, it is a venerable place. However, the numbers I mentioned should serve as alarm bells to the administration.

Your numbers aren't accurate or don't reflect what you think they reflect. W&M is doing just fine.

They are not meaningful.

. This. OP doesn’t what what she is talking about it has an axe to grind

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s nothing wrong with William & Mary. Clearly, OP’s kid didn’t get into W&M via ED 1 so has an axe to grind.

False. As the oldest college in America, it is a venerable place. However, the numbers I mentioned should serve as alarm bells to the administration.

Your numbers aren't accurate or don't reflect what you think they reflect. W&M is doing just fine.

They are not meaningful.

They are both accurate and meaningful.

[Anonymous]

It’s clear from a quick google that the school and many alumni are aware of the rankings erosion and are concerned. Rankings might be dumb but they are the coin of the realm.