Affirmative Action should be income-based, not race-based

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flood of white tears in this thread is amazing. Of all the problems minority kids face today, this is what you guys cry about.

The disdain for white folks in this thread, who lose college seats to those less qualified, is amazing. I wonder if the bigota going on about "white trash" are black?

And being kept out of med school, a lifelong dream, so that a lesser scoring minority gets in instead of you is a big deal.

I have been back and forth to Georgetown Hospital for a year and the place is crawling with med students. Most of them are white, Asian, or East Asian Indian. I met only one black student. Do all schools have to have this quota?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flood of white tears in this thread is amazing. Of all the problems minority kids face today, this is what you guys cry about.

The disdain for white folks in this thread, who lose college seats to those less qualified, is amazing. I wonder if the bigota going on about "white trash" are black?

And being kept out of med school, a lifelong dream, so that a lesser scoring minority gets in instead of you is a big deal.

I assure you that the white trash posters are white. In their grandparents day their was a hierarchy of bigotry: “colored” were on the bottom followed by “spics,” “chinks,” and “white trash.” They have not progressed beyond that era

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flood of white tears in this thread is amazing. Of all the problems minority kids face today, this is what you guys cry about.

The disdain for white folks in this thread, who lose college seats to those less qualified, is amazing. I wonder if the bigota going on about "white trash" are black?

And being kept out of med school, a lifelong dream, so that a lesser scoring minority gets in instead of you is a big deal.

I assure you that the white trash posters are white. In their grandparents day their was a hierarchy of bigotry: “colored” were on the bottom followed by “spics,” “chinks,” and “white trash.” They have not progressed beyond that era

Well, it's horrible either way. Now I'm wondering if the racist white posters disdainfully referring to lower-income whites as "white trash" would be angry (rightfully so) were whites to refer to lower-income blacks in similarly disgraceful terms - or if they are equal opportunity biogas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flood of white tears in this thread is amazing. Of all the problems minority kids face today, this is what you guys cry about.

The disdain for white folks in this thread, who lose college seats to those less qualified, is amazing. I wonder if the bigota going on about "white trash" are black?

And being kept out of med school, a lifelong dream, so that a lesser scoring minority gets in instead of you is a big deal.

I have been back and forth to Georgetown Hospital for a year and the place is crawling with med students. Most of them are white, Asian, or East Asian Indian. I met only one black student. Do all schools have to have this quota?

So you're experience with one teaching hospital overrides the extensive data produced by the MCAT administrators that clearly show how standards are lowered to admit black students (who would be laughed out of there if they were white)?

Many med schools find themselves in a quandary. They set "goals" to have URMs at their representative levels of the general population - so if 14% of kids are black, they want 14% of their med school class to be black. Thus they lower the required scores, lower and lower, until they can get more in. The problem of course is that if you drop the cut-off too low, you risk the reputation and caliber of the school. It's an actual dilemma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you posters who are insisting that minorities admitted to competitive schools with lower grades and scores than white and Asian students do just as well, be realistic. In what universe would you put a crop of B- stidents in with straight A students, and not expect the former group to struggle to keep up with the latter group?

I've worked in the industry. I can tell you that that a high percentage of the minorities admitted under the lesser AA standards require a lot of tutoring to stay in the program. (Competitive universities invest a lot in keeping the AA students in their programs since they want to keep the drop-out rate low.) By comparison, the minorities who would have gained admission under the standard guidelines, which constitute about a third of minorities. do not need extra tutoring to keep from failing. As one would expect. After all, they were "equal" in terms of grades and test scores as the non-minority students.

Stanford had to create a couple of “physics for dummies” type courses to boost retention of URM students. Is that really the way AA is supposed to work? Pretty pathetic.

Yes, and I've heard black graduates complain that people wonder if they got in - and through - on their own, or whether lesser standards applied. Well. You can't have it both ways. If you lower standards to admit minorities who otherwise would have been rejected, every minority will then be suspected of getting in because of lesser standards.

The people who suffer, beyond the whites who are outright rejected, are the minorities who would have gotten in on their own. If a school has an entering class of 2000 students, 10% of whom are black (200), approximately 70 of them qualified under the "white standard." Approximately 130 would have had to go to a lesser school, if equal standards were applied.

The other ones who suffer are the many excellent Asian Americans who are rejected because according to the racial/ PC police they are "overrepresented."

Get off the cross we need the wood. Apply to a different school. Move on. Be smart and take a full scholarship instead of taking high yielding money out of a lucrative market. Harvard is ONE school.

DP. So why can't the minorities admitted to Harvard under lower standards apply to a different school? Why do the Asians have to go to the lesser school when their grades and scores were higher?

Because their spots were taken by legacies and athletes?

No, their spots were taken by black students with much lower grades and test scores.

scores

Much lower than the athletes? Really?

DP. Yes, blacks get the largest handicaps followed by latinos, athletes and legacies. The data are all there if you care to look.

It's true about the stats. The organization that produces the med school admission test has some very telling data on its website. The average grades and test scores for blacks admitted to med school are significantly lower for blacks than whites. There is no way in he!! that a kid with a 3.2 average in college is getting into med school - unless he's black.

My friend's son had a high test score and a 3.7 average - but it wasn't good enough to get into med school....any med school. (And he didn't have it easy: His father died when he was 12 and his mother raised him on a single income.) In the meantime, black kids with not much more than a B average and substantially lower scores get accepted.

Yes, it's tough to get into med school. He should have studied harder instead of bitching about a handful of spots that go to URMs.

Or, they should stop rejecting A- white kids in favor of B black kids, who then need extensive tutoring to maintain pace with their better qualified peers. med school is tough! No wonder the B students admitted under AA struggle through.

Or at least the black kids and their parents should be appreciative of the fact that they were given better students' spots because the rejected white kids were the wrong color. Instead, we have entitled black people telling them to quit bitching.

The A- kids didn't have a chance anyway. They are competing against the A+ kids. Do you know anyone who went to medical school recently? It's not the A- kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flood of white tears in this thread is amazing. Of all the problems minority kids face today, this is what you guys cry about.

The disdain for white folks in this thread, who lose college seats to those less qualified, is amazing. I wonder if the bigota going on about "white trash" are black?

And being kept out of med school, a lifelong dream, so that a lesser scoring minority gets in instead of you is a big deal.

That wasn't his seat - a more qualified white/Asian kid would have taken it if not the URM. WAY more qualified kids applying - don't blame it on the handful of spots for URMs. Next time study harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you posters who are insisting that minorities admitted to competitive schools with lower grades and scores than white and Asian students do just as well, be realistic. In what universe would you put a crop of B- stidents in with straight A students, and not expect the former group to struggle to keep up with the latter group?

I've worked in the industry. I can tell you that that a high percentage of the minorities admitted under the lesser AA standards require a lot of tutoring to stay in the program. (Competitive universities invest a lot in keeping the AA students in their programs since they want to keep the drop-out rate low.) By comparison, the minorities who would have gained admission under the standard guidelines, which constitute about a third of minorities. do not need extra tutoring to keep from failing. As one would expect. After all, they were "equal" in terms of grades and test scores as the non-minority students.

Stanford had to create a couple of “physics for dummies” type courses to boost retention of URM students. Is that really the way AA is supposed to work? Pretty pathetic.

Yes, and I've heard black graduates complain that people wonder if they got in - and through - on their own, or whether lesser standards applied. Well. You can't have it both ways. If you lower standards to admit minorities who otherwise would have been rejected, every minority will then be suspected of getting in because of lesser standards.

The people who suffer, beyond the whites who are outright rejected, are the minorities who would have gotten in on their own. If a school has an entering class of 2000 students, 10% of whom are black (200), approximately 70 of them qualified under the "white standard." Approximately 130 would have had to go to a lesser school, if equal standards were applied.

The other ones who suffer are the many excellent Asian Americans who are rejected because according to the racial/ PC police they are "overrepresented."

Get off the cross we need the wood. Apply to a different school. Move on. Be smart and take a full scholarship instead of taking high yielding money out of a lucrative market. Harvard is ONE school.

DP. So why can't the minorities admitted to Harvard under lower standards apply to a different school? Why do the Asians have to go to the lesser school when their grades and scores were higher?

Because their spots were taken by legacies and athletes?

No, their spots were taken by black students with much lower grades and test scores.

Much lower than the athletes? Really?

DP. Yes, blacks get the largest handicaps followed by latinos, athletes and legacies. The data are all there if you care to look.

Ah no. Athletes and legacies have the greatest handicap. After all, those two cohorts bring in billions of dollars to the school in donations and tv rights.

You’re wrong and a bit dense....there’s ample data on this topic. I also don’t understand why black people deny the significant handicaps they receive....that is the heart of what AA is.

link?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you posters who are insisting that minorities admitted to competitive schools with lower grades and scores than white and Asian students do just as well, be realistic. In what universe would you put a crop of B- stidents in with straight A students, and not expect the former group to struggle to keep up with the latter group?

I've worked in the industry. I can tell you that that a high percentage of the minorities admitted under the lesser AA standards require a lot of tutoring to stay in the program. (Competitive universities invest a lot in keeping the AA students in their programs since they want to keep the drop-out rate low.) By comparison, the minorities who would have gained admission under the standard guidelines, which constitute about a third of minorities. do not need extra tutoring to keep from failing. As one would expect. After all, they were "equal" in terms of grades and test scores as the non-minority students.

Stanford had to create a couple of “physics for dummies” type courses to boost retention of URM students. Is that really the way AA is supposed to work? Pretty pathetic.

Yes, and I've heard black graduates complain that people wonder if they got in - and through - on their own, or whether lesser standards applied. Well. You can't have it both ways. If you lower standards to admit minorities who otherwise would have been rejected, every minority will then be suspected of getting in because of lesser standards.

The people who suffer, beyond the whites who are outright rejected, are the minorities who would have gotten in on their own. If a school has an entering class of 2000 students, 10% of whom are black (200), approximately 70 of them qualified under the "white standard." Approximately 130 would have had to go to a lesser school, if equal standards were applied.

The other ones who suffer are the many excellent Asian Americans who are rejected because according to the racial/ PC police they are "overrepresented."

Get off the cross we need the wood. Apply to a different school. Move on. Be smart and take a full scholarship instead of taking high yielding money out of a lucrative market. Harvard is ONE school.

DP. So why can't the minorities admitted to Harvard under lower standards apply to a different school? Why do the Asians have to go to the lesser school when their grades and scores were higher?

Because their spots were taken by legacies and athletes?

No, their spots were taken by black students with much lower grades and test scores.

scores

Much lower than the athletes? Really?

DP. Yes, blacks get the largest handicaps followed by latinos, athletes and legacies. The data are all there if you care to look.

It's true about the stats. The organization that produces the med school admission test has some very telling data on its website. The average grades and test scores for blacks admitted to med school are significantly lower for blacks than whites. There is no way in he!! that a kid with a 3.2 average in college is getting into med school - unless he's black.

My friend's son had a high test score and a 3.7 average - but it wasn't good enough to get into med school....any med school. (And he didn't have it easy: His father died when he was 12 and his mother raised him on a single income.) In the meantime, black kids with not much more than a B average and substantially lower scores get accepted.

Yes, it's tough to get into med school. He should have studied harder instead of bitching about a handful of spots that go to URMs.

Or, they should stop rejecting A- white kids in favor of B black kids, who then need extensive tutoring to maintain pace with their better qualified peers. med school is tough! No wonder the B students admitted under AA struggle through.

Or at least the black kids and their parents should be appreciative of the fact that they were given better students' spots because the rejected white kids were the wrong color. Instead, we have entitled black people telling them to quit bitching.

The A- kids didn't have a chance anyway. They are competing against the A+ kids. Do you know anyone who went to medical school recently? It's not the A- kids.

What kind of logic is this?? The reason the white A- kids didn't have a chance is because med schools gave their slots to the black B students!

It's unreal how some of you are trying to deny that giving preference to blacks comes at the expense of whites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The flood of white tears in this thread is amazing. Of all the problems minority kids face today, this is what you guys cry about.

The only ones crying here are the whites and asians who feel like they are entitled to spots at elite schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you posters who are insisting that minorities admitted to competitive schools with lower grades and scores than white and Asian students do just as well, be realistic. In what universe would you put a crop of B- stidents in with straight A students, and not expect the former group to struggle to keep up with the latter group?

I've worked in the industry. I can tell you that that a high percentage of the minorities admitted under the lesser AA standards require a lot of tutoring to stay in the program. (Competitive universities invest a lot in keeping the AA students in their programs since they want to keep the drop-out rate low.) By comparison, the minorities who would have gained admission under the standard guidelines, which constitute about a third of minorities. do not need extra tutoring to keep from failing. As one would expect. After all, they were "equal" in terms of grades and test scores as the non-minority students.

Stanford had to create a couple of “physics for dummies” type courses to boost retention of URM students. Is that really the way AA is supposed to work? Pretty pathetic.

Yes, and I've heard black graduates complain that people wonder if they got in - and through - on their own, or whether lesser standards applied. Well. You can't have it both ways. If you lower standards to admit minorities who otherwise would have been rejected, every minority will then be suspected of getting in because of lesser standards.

The people who suffer, beyond the whites who are outright rejected, are the minorities who would have gotten in on their own. If a school has an entering class of 2000 students, 10% of whom are black (200), approximately 70 of them qualified under the "white standard." Approximately 130 would have had to go to a lesser school, if equal standards were applied.

The other ones who suffer are the many excellent Asian Americans who are rejected because according to the racial/ PC police they are "overrepresented."

Get off the cross we need the wood. Apply to a different school. Move on. Be smart and take a full scholarship instead of taking high yielding money out of a lucrative market. Harvard is ONE school.

DP. So why can't the minorities admitted to Harvard under lower standards apply to a different school? Why do the Asians have to go to the lesser school when their grades and scores were higher?

Because their spots were taken by legacies and athletes?

No, their spots were taken by black students with much lower grades and test scores.

scores

Much lower than the athletes? Really?

DP. Yes, blacks get the largest handicaps followed by latinos, athletes and legacies. The data are all there if you care to look.

It's true about the stats. The organization that produces the med school admission test has some very telling data on its website. The average grades and test scores for blacks admitted to med school are significantly lower for blacks than whites. There is no way in he!! that a kid with a 3.2 average in college is getting into med school - unless he's black.

My friend's son had a high test score and a 3.7 average - but it wasn't good enough to get into med school....any med school. (And he didn't have it easy: His father died when he was 12 and his mother raised him on a single income.) In the meantime, black kids with not much more than a B average and substantially lower scores get accepted.

Yes, it's tough to get into med school. He should have studied harder instead of bitching about a handful of spots that go to URMs.

Or, they should stop rejecting A- white kids in favor of B black kids, who then need extensive tutoring to maintain pace with their better qualified peers. med school is tough! No wonder the B students admitted under AA struggle through.

Or at least the black kids and their parents should be appreciative of the fact that they were given better students' spots because the rejected white kids were the wrong color. Instead, we have entitled black people telling them to quit bitching.

The A- kids didn't have a chance anyway. They are competing against the A+ kids. Do you know anyone who went to medical school recently? It's not the A- kids.

What kind of logic is this?? The reason the white A- kids didn't have a chance is because med schools gave their slots to the black B students!

It's unreal how some of you are trying to deny that giving preference to blacks comes at the expense of whites.

For the vast majority of the whiners, they aren't losing their spots to URM kids. It's a numbers game. There are many fewer URM kids applying for a handful of URM slots. But buttloads of mediocre MC/UMC kids fighting for the same spots.

Send your kid to state school. They will be fine. Give the URM kid a spot at a life-changing program. By lifting up others, we lift us all up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flood of white tears in this thread is amazing. Of all the problems minority kids face today, this is what you guys cry about.

The disdain for white folks in this thread, who lose college seats to those less qualified, is amazing. I wonder if the bigota going on about "white trash" are black?

And being kept out of med school, a lifelong dream, so that a lesser scoring minority gets in instead of you is a big deal.

That wasn't his seat - a more qualified white/Asian kid would have taken it if not the URM. WAY more qualified kids applying - don't blame it on the handful of spots for URMs. Next time study harder.

Again, complete denial. if there's one spot remaining, and the black kid with a 3.2 gets it and the white kid with a 3.8 is told to take a hike, the white kid DID lose to the black kid.

Why don't you take that same WGAF attitude and apply it to black kids who, if standards were equal, would have lost out to the white kid. I don't hear you telling HIM to study harder.

The AA policy as it now stands is most unfair to lower-income whites who, despite their disadvantage, manage to get close to a 4.0 average - and their lose their spot in grad school to a middle-income black stident with a B+ average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flood of white tears in this thread is amazing. Of all the problems minority kids face today, this is what you guys cry about.

The disdain for white folks in this thread, who lose college seats to those less qualified, is amazing. I wonder if the bigota going on about "white trash" are black?

And being kept out of med school, a lifelong dream, so that a lesser scoring minority gets in instead of you is a big deal.

That wasn't his seat - a more qualified white/Asian kid would have taken it if not the URM. WAY more qualified kids applying - don't blame it on the handful of spots for URMs. Next time study harder.

Again, complete denial. if there's one spot remaining, and the black kid with a 3.2 gets it and the white kid with a 3.8 is told to take a hike, the white kid DID lose to the black kid.

Why don't you take that same WGAF attitude and apply it to black kids who, if standards were equal, would have lost out to the white kid. I don't hear you telling HIM to study harder.

The AA policy as it now stands is most unfair to lower-income whites who, despite their disadvantage, manage to get close to a 4.0 average - and their lose their spot in grad school to a middle-income black stident with a B+ average.

waiting for AA in sports

look all liberals and URM apologists on here. Make it an even playing field or shut the heck up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you posters who are insisting that minorities admitted to competitive schools with lower grades and scores than white and Asian students do just as well, be realistic. In what universe would you put a crop of B- stidents in with straight A students, and not expect the former group to struggle to keep up with the latter group?

I've worked in the industry. I can tell you that that a high percentage of the minorities admitted under the lesser AA standards require a lot of tutoring to stay in the program. (Competitive universities invest a lot in keeping the AA students in their programs since they want to keep the drop-out rate low.) By comparison, the minorities who would have gained admission under the standard guidelines, which constitute about a third of minorities. do not need extra tutoring to keep from failing. As one would expect. After all, they were "equal" in terms of grades and test scores as the non-minority students.

Stanford had to create a couple of “physics for dummies” type courses to boost retention of URM students. Is that really the way AA is supposed to work? Pretty pathetic.

Yes, and I've heard black graduates complain that people wonder if they got in - and through - on their own, or whether lesser standards applied. Well. You can't have it both ways. If you lower standards to admit minorities who otherwise would have been rejected, every minority will then be suspected of getting in because of lesser standards.

The people who suffer, beyond the whites who are outright rejected, are the minorities who would have gotten in on their own. If a school has an entering class of 2000 students, 10% of whom are black (200), approximately 70 of them qualified under the "white standard." Approximately 130 would have had to go to a lesser school, if equal standards were applied.

The other ones who suffer are the many excellent Asian Americans who are rejected because according to the racial/ PC police they are "overrepresented."

Get off the cross we need the wood. Apply to a different school. Move on. Be smart and take a full scholarship instead of taking high yielding money out of a lucrative market. Harvard is ONE school.

DP. So why can't the minorities admitted to Harvard under lower standards apply to a different school? Why do the Asians have to go to the lesser school when their grades and scores were higher?

Because their spots were taken by legacies and athletes?

No, their spots were taken by black students with much lower grades and test scores.

scores

Much lower than the athletes? Really?

DP. Yes, blacks get the largest handicaps followed by latinos, athletes and legacies. The data are all there if you care to look.

It's true about the stats. The organization that produces the med school admission test has some very telling data on its website. The average grades and test scores for blacks admitted to med school are significantly lower for blacks than whites. There is no way in he!! that a kid with a 3.2 average in college is getting into med school - unless he's black.

My friend's son had a high test score and a 3.7 average - but it wasn't good enough to get into med school....any med school. (And he didn't have it easy: His father died when he was 12 and his mother raised him on a single income.) In the meantime, black kids with not much more than a B average and substantially lower scores get accepted.

Yes, it's tough to get into med school. He should have studied harder instead of bitching about a handful of spots that go to URMs.

Or, they should stop rejecting A- white kids in favor of B black kids, who then need extensive tutoring to maintain pace with their better qualified peers. med school is tough! No wonder the B students admitted under AA struggle through.

Or at least the black kids and their parents should be appreciative of the fact that they were given better students' spots because the rejected white kids were the wrong color. Instead, we have entitled black people telling them to quit bitching.

The A- kids didn't have a chance anyway. They are competing against the A+ kids. Do you know anyone who went to medical school recently? It's not the A- kids.

What kind of logic is this?? The reason the white A- kids didn't have a chance is because med schools gave their slots to the black B students!

It's unreal how some of you are trying to deny that giving preference to blacks comes at the expense of whites.

For the vast majority of the whiners, they aren't losing their spots to URM kids. It's a numbers game. There are many fewer URM kids applying for a handful of URM slots. But buttloads of mediocre MC/UMC kids fighting for the same spots.

Send your kid to state school. They will be fine. Give the URM kid a spot at a life-changing program. By lifting up others, we lift us all up.

Why shouldn't the black kid go to state school if that's what his academic record would qualify him for? To use your phrase...."He'll be fine."

You think that the lower-income white kid who excelled academically and would otherwise have gotten accepted to Harvard wouldn't find THAT a life-changing experience? Why such prejudice against poor whites who deserve a chance, given a shining scholastic record?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flood of white tears in this thread is amazing. Of all the problems minority kids face today, this is what you guys cry about.

The only ones crying here are the whites and asians who feel like they are entitled to spots at elite schools.

If you work hard and have the grades, why shouldn't you EARN a spot?

I fail to see your "logic."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flood of white tears in this thread is amazing. Of all the problems minority kids face today, this is what you guys cry about.

The disdain for white folks in this thread, who lose college seats to those less qualified, is amazing. I wonder if the bigota going on about "white trash" are black?

And being kept out of med school, a lifelong dream, so that a lesser scoring minority gets in instead of you is a big deal.

That wasn't his seat - a more qualified white/Asian kid would have taken it if not the URM. WAY more qualified kids applying - don't blame it on the handful of spots for URMs. Next time study harder.

Again, complete denial. if there's one spot remaining, and the black kid with a 3.2 gets it and the white kid with a 3.8 is told to take a hike, the white kid DID lose to the black kid.

Why don't you take that same WGAF attitude and apply it to black kids who, if standards were equal, would have lost out to the white kid. I don't hear you telling HIM to study harder.

The AA policy as it now stands is most unfair to lower-income whites who, despite their disadvantage, manage to get close to a 4.0 average - and their lose their spot in grad school to a middle-income black stident with a B+ average.

They likely pool their applicants and seats so the white kids and the URM kids are never directly compared against each other. URM kids compete against each other for the URM spots. And the majority kids compete against each other. You can certainly "lose your spot" against other more qualified candidates in your pool. URM kids should work harder if they aren't getting in.

FYI, first-generation college applicants are also given an advantage.

Life isn't fair. Welcome to life.

And only 8% of med school students are black. It's very telling that you are so laser-focused on this one group of URM kids.