Affirmative Action should be income-based, not race-based

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About 30 years ago, Howard was so eager to create more black lawyers that they shaved off the requirements for law school graduation - eliminating five courses that were standard at law schools throughout the country. They figured just get them a J.D. behind their name, even if their educational preparation was lacking.

It quickly backfired. Wiser minds realized that by doing this, they were making a Howard J.D. a "second-class" degree, and the institution would suffer a significant hit to their reputation. They quickly reversed course, and the remaining five courses were put back in as a requirement for graduation.

I bring up this story because, similarly, that is what happens when you have "second-class" admissions standards for blacks. It causes a hit to the reputation of blacks who would have been admitted without the benefit of racial preferences. So in the Harvard example in the post above, a black student who scored a 1400 on his SAT and would have gotten in anyway is likely to have a cloud follow him: Did he get into Harvard by his own merit, or was he one of the blacks for whom an 1100 SAT was deemed enough (given his skin color).

Test scores are not the only criteria used. An applicant with 1100 SAT may have other skills/intelligences that are desirable within a college cohort.

Test scores become meaningless when you take into consideration the biases that feed into the whole testing/educational system. In fact, many schools are making SAT/ACT scores optional.

But the problem is that it's 1100 for blacks, and almost 1400 for Asian males. I'm sure the Asian males have other skills/intelligence as well, but they need to start from a much higher jumping-off point.

And the math test is biased? English comprehension is biased? The reason many schools are making SAT/ACT scores optional is that it will be easier to defend admitting black students with test scores so much lower than white students IF THEY OMIT THE TEST ENTIRELY. It's meant to hide the discrepancy between lower- and higher-achieving groups.

(I remember during the Obama administration, there was a push to eliminate standardized testing at the pre-college level, too, and for the same reason. Blacks and Latinos were scoring lower, and that doesn't "look good." So.....abolish the test, and voila, problem solved!)

You think there aren’t biases in the testing/educational system?

[Anonymous]

US education system is poor quality
Other countries with income gaps between different populations have been much more successful
I suggest broadening horizons and looking at how and why there is success elsewhere, instead of using the data to prove that some are just dumb

[Anonymous]

^^^ To answer the above question, tests themselves have no bias. Algebra doesn't see skin color.

As for the educational system, true....there are inequities. But those inequities are between affluent/middle class schools and poor schools in the cities and rural towns. It carries through because blacks are poorer than whites, for reasons of both prejudice AND their own irresponsible choices, but again....the discrepancy in educational systems is based on SES, not race.

A big problem I see from the bleeding hearts on this thread is the insistence that blacks be favored over whites with superior grades/scores until blacks have as much success (measured in terms of educational attainment, income, and net worth) as whites. That can never happen when 3 out of 4 black blabies are born to unwed mothers, as that is a big predictor of poverty, and that is a big predictor of poor academic success. IF and when blacks lower the illegitimacy rate to something closer to that of whites, and we STILL see discrepancies in educational attainment, then race-based AA would be more justifiable. But as it stands now, the majority of black babies start life way behind the 8-ball due to the fact that they are poor to poor, single mothers.

Iow, you have to control for the variable before you can determine why blacks perform worse than whites in school, generally speaking.

[Anonymous]

There are certainly inequities in the quality of education but the racial performance gaps persist even when measuring students in similarly wealthy cohorts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are certainly inequities in the quality of education but the racial performance gaps persist even when measuring students in similarly wealthy cohorts.

So are you saying blacks in wealthy schools still don't do as well as the whites in their cohort? And are you saying that teacher bias explains it entirely?

Also, are the gaps more pronounced between black males and white males, whereas the gap is less significant between black females and white females? I ask this because in my school, the black boys cared a lot more about sports than the white boys - and they were disproportionately represented on sports teams. That certainly took time away from their studies and divided their focus. My parents, for example, didn't allow my sister or I to be involved in activities unless we maintained all B's, minimum. I once got a C in science, and my dad wouldn't allow me to try out for the school play that semester. Said I needed to put all my energy into getting my science grade up to something acceptable (which he deemed a B). Very strict parents where education was concerned, but then.....we all got into top colleges when the time came. (Oh....and I did get a B in science the following semester!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are certainly inequities in the quality of education but the racial performance gaps persist even when measuring students in similarly wealthy cohorts.

Link? Data?

Maybe the money isn't enough. It takes a couple generations to escape the poverty cycle; maybe it takes a couple generations to enter the education cycle. To build vocabulary, expectations, etc.

Maybe AA is helping to push that along and insert more families into the education cycle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are certainly inequities in the quality of education but the racial performance gaps persist even when measuring students in similarly wealthy cohorts.

So are you saying blacks in wealthy schools still don't do as well as the whites in their cohort? And are you saying that teacher bias explains it entirely?

Also, are the gaps more pronounced between black males and white males, whereas the gap is less significant between black females and white females? I ask this because in my school, the black boys cared a lot more about sports than the white boys - and they were disproportionately represented on sports teams. That certainly took time away from their studies and divided their focus. My parents, for example, didn't allow my sister or I to be involved in activities unless we maintained all B's, minimum. I once got a C in science, and my dad wouldn't allow me to try out for the school play that semester. Said I needed to put all my energy into getting my science grade up to something acceptable (which he deemed a B). Very strict parents where education was concerned, but then.....we all got into top colleges when the time came. (Oh....and I did get a B in science the following semester!)

You got into a top college with a B in science?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are certainly inequities in the quality of education but the racial performance gaps persist even when measuring students in similarly wealthy cohorts.

So are you saying blacks in wealthy schools still don't do as well as the whites in their cohort? And are you saying that teacher bias explains it entirely?

Also, are the gaps more pronounced between black males and white males, whereas the gap is less significant between black females and white females? I ask this because in my school, the black boys cared a lot more about sports than the white boys - and they were disproportionately represented on sports teams. That certainly took time away from their studies and divided their focus. My parents, for example, didn't allow my sister or I to be involved in activities unless we maintained all B's, minimum. I once got a C in science, and my dad wouldn't allow me to try out for the school play that semester. Said I needed to put all my energy into getting my science grade up to something acceptable (which he deemed a B). Very strict parents where education was concerned, but then.....we all got into top colleges when the time came. (Oh....and I did get a B in science the following semester!)

You got into a top college with a B in science?

What's your opinion of Brown? Good enough?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are certainly inequities in the quality of education but the racial performance gaps persist even when measuring students in similarly wealthy cohorts.

So are you saying blacks in wealthy schools still don't do as well as the whites in their cohort? And are you saying that teacher bias explains it entirely?

Also, are the gaps more pronounced between black males and white males, whereas the gap is less significant between black females and white females? I ask this because in my school, the black boys cared a lot more about sports than the white boys - and they were disproportionately represented on sports teams. That certainly took time away from their studies and divided their focus. My parents, for example, didn't allow my sister or I to be involved in activities unless we maintained all B's, minimum. I once got a C in science, and my dad wouldn't allow me to try out for the school play that semester. Said I needed to put all my energy into getting my science grade up to something acceptable (which he deemed a B). Very strict parents where education was concerned, but then.....we all got into top colleges when the time came. (Oh....and I did get a B in science the following semester!)

You got into a top college with a B in science?

Wow. What a liberal - when you can't respond to the message, attack the messenger!

What about the point that sports seem to be more valued among blacks than whites? Just look at any high school sports team - blacks are on teams way out of proportion to their numbers. I know, for example, that Jews really de-emphasize sports and want their kids focused on academics. (Asians, too, I believe.) And you see the difference that proper focus makes: look at how high Jews and Asians score on tests.

I'd like to see a rule in high school that any kid with less than a 2.5 cannot be on a sports team. They should not be spending valuable time running around a basketball court of football field when their classwork is so mediocre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are certainly inequities in the quality of education but the racial performance gaps persist even when measuring students in similarly wealthy cohorts.

So are you saying blacks in wealthy schools still don't do as well as the whites in their cohort? And are you saying that teacher bias explains it entirely?

Also, are the gaps more pronounced between black males and white males, whereas the gap is less significant between black females and white females? I ask this because in my school, the black boys cared a lot more about sports than the white boys - and they were disproportionately represented on sports teams. That certainly took time away from their studies and divided their focus. My parents, for example, didn't allow my sister or I to be involved in activities unless we maintained all B's, minimum. I once got a C in science, and my dad wouldn't allow me to try out for the school play that semester. Said I needed to put all my energy into getting my science grade up to something acceptable (which he deemed a B). Very strict parents where education was concerned, but then.....we all got into top colleges when the time came. (Oh....and I did get a B in science the following semester!)

You got into a top college with a B in science?

What's your opinion of Brown? Good enough?

Ah. That explains it. Grades optional at Brown.