If you had an abortion you really didn't want to have

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to chime on on the "WHY DID SHE NOT JUST CHOOSE ADOPTION?" issue.

I had an abortion last year after my birth control failed (I was using it correctly, before you ask). I considered all my options. I considered continuing the pregnancy and raising the child, but financially, it would have been next to impossible. I considered continuing the pregnancy and putting the child up for adoption, but my assessment was that that would have been confusing and difficult for my daughter. Ultimately, I decided to terminate the pregnancy.

I wanted to say that specifically with regard to the adoption issue, it is not as easy as "just have the baby and put the baby up for adoption". My daughter is 4. She would have had a really hard time understanding why I was pregnant and then she didn't get a younger sibling. Pregnancy is also a physical event for the woman in question. It is not always easy, and those physical issues have ramifications on family life. When I was pregnant with DD, I was exhausted all the time for about 28 weeks. After she was born, it took me several weeks to recover physically from birth. I am trying to speak purely to the physical aspects that affect other people than me, because all to often I hear women who do not want to experience pregnancy and birth condemned as selfish for that desire.

Financially, a $400 abortion was cheaper than the $700 deductible I would have needed to pay to have the baby, or the numerous $20 office visit copays, or the rhogam shots, or anything else. If that had been the only issue, I would have figured out a way to make it work, but it wasn't.

I have observed that sometimes adoptive families think it's as easy as just deciding not to abort and then living life as usual for the next however many months. I had a relatively easy pregnancy the first time, but it was not without consequence to my life at that time either.

That's depressing. You had an abortion because it was about $500 cheaper than the abortion? Why not get your tubes tied if you absolutely can't stand the physical part of the pregnancy? I just can't understand why intelligent, educated women who do not want to get pregnant do in fact get pregnant.

Yes, that's exactly what she said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to chime on on the "WHY DID SHE NOT JUST CHOOSE ADOPTION?" issue.

I had an abortion last year after my birth control failed (I was using it correctly, before you ask). I considered all my options. I considered continuing the pregnancy and raising the child, but financially, it would have been next to impossible. I considered continuing the pregnancy and putting the child up for adoption, but my assessment was that that would have been confusing and difficult for my daughter. Ultimately, I decided to terminate the pregnancy.

I wanted to say that specifically with regard to the adoption issue, it is not as easy as "just have the baby and put the baby up for adoption". My daughter is 4. She would have had a really hard time understanding why I was pregnant and then she didn't get a younger sibling. Pregnancy is also a physical event for the woman in question. It is not always easy, and those physical issues have ramifications on family life. When I was pregnant with DD, I was exhausted all the time for about 28 weeks. After she was born, it took me several weeks to recover physically from birth. I am trying to speak purely to the physical aspects that affect other people than me, because all to often I hear women who do not want to experience pregnancy and birth condemned as selfish for that desire.

Financially, a $400 abortion was cheaper than the $700 deductible I would have needed to pay to have the baby, or the numerous $20 office visit copays, or the rhogam shots, or anything else. If that had been the only issue, I would have figured out a way to make it work, but it wasn't.

I have observed that sometimes adoptive families think it's as easy as just deciding not to abort and then living life as usual for the next however many months. I had a relatively easy pregnancy the first time, but it was not without consequence to my life at that time either.

That's depressing. You had an abortion because it was about $500 cheaper than the abortion? Why not get your tubes tied if you absolutely can't stand the physical part of the pregnancy? I just can't understand why intelligent, educated women who do not want to get pregnant do in fact get pregnant.

Your reading comprehension skills are nonexistent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today my friend who had an abortion says she wished her "support" person had made some effort to talk her out of it. There were other options.

She and a lot of people. Her voice won't drown out the extreme voices on either side. These women suffer silently and when she talks about it, it will be taboo. Her pro life friends will drown her with crap about Jesus and her pro choice friends will trivialize her feelings. Those with good professional experience like some OBs can understand. The pain is immense and she will never stop thinking about her child, her little friend, who only she knew.
The extreme views make it hard for any logic to come into this. In the end there are women who are being hurt by a system that refuses to be intellectually honest. There IS post abortion stress, no different than PTSD. And for some women, that is not worth it, they would have rather struggled with the child than live through that. And these are NOT religious people, they are just humans with normal emotions.

OP here. This is the category my friend falls into. She has always considered herself pro-choice but didn't think she could ever have an abortion personally. Then she got pregnant at a very inopportune time in an exceedingly bad relationship and health situation, and she made the choice that would spare the child a lifetime of difficulty. It was heartbreaking for her, and I doubt she will ever forget about the little life that was inside of her. There was another young woman in the waiting room who was also there to have an abortion. She started chatting with me while my friend was in the back. She was perfectly upbeat and it was pretty clear that this was just like any other doctor's appointment for her, she was just bummed that her boyfriend couldn't get off work so they could go to Five Guys after. There seems to be a huge range of feelings women have about this procedure. It doesn't do anyone any favors to diminish or hyperbolize the degree to which something like this can weigh on a person.

Why didn't she consider adoption?

Yeah. I am the 12:02 poster. Why DIDN'T she consider adoption? Why don't MORE women in this situation consider adoption? I am an adoptive mom of one, waiting on #2, and wonder this CONSTANTLY!!!!

This attitude bothers me so much. It is so close to suggesting that a woman with an unwanted pregnancy should be willing to be an incubator so that someone else can have a child. No woman owes you a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pro-life troll, please answer. Do you feel the same way about the baby killing bitches doing IVF?

NP. And please tell us how you feel about the baby-killing bitches like me who have terminated ectopic pregnancies.

Another pro-life poster. Aborting an ectopic pregnancy is nothing like aborting a normal healthy pregnancy. Do you honestly believe that pro-lifers would view it the same way?

Yes. Or is it "justifiable murder?" Either you're taking a life, or you're not. Or you're saying it's ok to take a life when x or y happens, but not z. You hypocrites.

The embryo in an ectopic pregnancy has NO CHANCE OF SURVIVAL. Do you really think pro-lifers are that stupid?

Er, yes they are. Plenty of pro-lifers want ectopic pregnancies to take their natural course. The health of the mother is of no consequence.

Liar. You're full of shit. I don't believe you have ever heard a pro-life person anywhere say that.

Yes, there are a number of pro-life people who believe that abortion should be prohibited under all circumstances, even ectopic pregnancy. I've included links in case you want to see for yourself. From the website of American Right to Life:

"Abortion has so hardened the heart of the medical community that no thought is given to the unborn child who is growing outside of the uterus. While government and medical industry websites claim that the baby cannot survive ectopic pregnancy, in truth, hundreds of such babies are reported as surviving abdominal, ovarian, and tubal ectopic pregnancies. For the documentation of these babies wonderful survival, see the impeccably referenced meta study: Ectopic Personhood, by Bill Fortenberry. In situ and even by transplant to the uterus (as documented below), the ectopic child often can survive. In so many cases though, the child will die and so might the mother unless a physician intervenes. Those who desire to justify abortion claim that such a complication proves their point because proper medical treatment for an ectopic pregnancy requires the intentional killing of the embryo. As demonstrated extensively by a number of medical studies, by Fortenberry, and uniquely, below, this is not true. But consider their motivation and the form of their argument." http://americanrtl.org/life-of-the-mother-exception

From Bill Fortenberry's article on the Personhood Initiative website:

"As we can see, ectopic pregnancies are not necessarily fatal for either the mother or the child. The mother’s survival is almost certain, and the survival of the child is at least possible if not probable. Dr. Koop was correct. The personhood of the unborn child does not conflict with the need to protect the life of the mother for the simple reason that abortion is never necessary for that protection. There are other solutions available. More than one obstetrician has recommended that women with ectopic pregnancies should be placed under the constant vigil of a well equipped hospital until their children have developed enough to be delivered alive rather than sacrificed unnecessarily.[34] Ectopic pregnancies can be survived, and we can prohibit all abortions without any exceptions." http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/ectopic-personhood.html

I'm the original ectopic pregnancy poster, and all I can say to that is WOW. I wonder at what point these people would have suggested a doctor transfer my abnormally-developing embryo from my Fallopian tube to my uterus during my first ectopic pregnancy. When I was hemorrhaging during my emergency laparotomy? I suppose with my second ectopic that a transfer of that abnormally-developing embryo should have been performed, and I should have spent the next 7.5 months in the hospital "under constant vigil", unable to take care of my toddler or work to support out family. That sounds like a recipe for success all around.

I am the PP who posted the info from American Right to Life and Fortenberry. I imagine those people would vilify me as a baby killer too, since I had to end a very much wanted pregnancy at 20 weeks because of a massive infection in my uterus. I was induced, was in labor all day, and delivered a baby girl who could not survive the delivery. She was born sleeping and the hospital chaplain baptized her for us. I suppose I could have stayed in the hospital for weeks, been pumped with IV antibiotics, risking my life and my future fertility, only to deliver a baby with minimal chance of a healthy outcome. I can't think of any ethical doctor who practices science-based medicine who would agree to such an approach. And like the PP with the ectopic pregnancies, I wouldn't have been able to care for my 5 year old son or work to support my family (of course this is irrelevant to Fortenberry and his ilk). Together with my husband and my medical team, we made the only rational choice. It was heartbreaking and it was the darkest day of my life. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. But it have never regretted it. I have always been pro-choice, but after this traumatizing experience, I am even more staunchly pro-choice. I wonder if any of these irrational, extremist anti-choice people (I can't even call them pro-life) have ever personally faced a crisis pregnancy. It's not black-and white. It's not all sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes pregnancies can go horribly wrong. How they are resolved should be up to the woman, her family, her medical team, and her spiritual advisor if she chooses to consult one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am very much pro choice but I too would like to find ways to encourage more women to consider putting their babies up for adoption.

At this point, I think we need to 1) limit the time a birth mother can change her mind-maybe 3 days instead of 3 months and 2) just call a spade a spade and pay the birth mother and not pretend its just "expenses"-.... If 1000 white infants were available tomorrow for adoption, I know every single one would be adopted in a day or so. Same for AA infants...but a lot of folks don't allow for interacial adoptions. The whole systems is excruciating and painful.

I think people really overestimate how easy putting a baby up for adoption is. "Oh, why doesn't she just put the baby up for adoption?" Um, because giving up an actual baby you have just given birth to can be really, really hard. You can say all you want that an embryo is a baby, but there is a difference between a potential baby and an actual baby. And you still have to go through pregnancy and childbirth--not only are both potentially dangerous (or even fatal), they cause all kinds of practical difficulties. Pregnancy can be exhausting, morning sickness can be truly debilitating, a woman might not be able to continue to perform her job while pregnant, she might not qualify for leave to recover from childbirth, etc. So if you want to encourage women to put their babies up for adoption, you really need to support affordable, accessible prenatal care for all, legal protections for pregnant employees, post-birth paid leave, etc.

Not to mention, it still doesn't solve the problem of babies with serious health issues. There are some adoptive parents who are willing to take this on, but many still want healthy white infants.

I don't see the pro-life group lining up to support prenatal care and financial support for women who choose to carry babies to term and keep them (that would be "welfare," and that's bad); maybe they'd be more supportive if the women were giving their babies up to "deserving" families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to chime on on the "WHY DID SHE NOT JUST CHOOSE ADOPTION?" issue.

I had an abortion last year after my birth control failed (I was using it correctly, before you ask). I considered all my options. I considered continuing the pregnancy and raising the child, but financially, it would have been next to impossible. I considered continuing the pregnancy and putting the child up for adoption, but my assessment was that that would have been confusing and difficult for my daughter. Ultimately, I decided to terminate the pregnancy.

I wanted to say that specifically with regard to the adoption issue, it is not as easy as "just have the baby and put the baby up for adoption". My daughter is 4. She would have had a really hard time understanding why I was pregnant and then she didn't get a younger sibling. Pregnancy is also a physical event for the woman in question. It is not always easy, and those physical issues have ramifications on family life. When I was pregnant with DD, I was exhausted all the time for about 28 weeks. After she was born, it took me several weeks to recover physically from birth. I am trying to speak purely to the physical aspects that affect other people than me, because all to often I hear women who do not want to experience pregnancy and birth condemned as selfish for that desire.

Financially, a $400 abortion was cheaper than the $700 deductible I would have needed to pay to have the baby, or the numerous $20 office visit copays, or the rhogam shots, or anything else. If that had been the only issue, I would have figured out a way to make it work, but it wasn't.

I have observed that sometimes adoptive families think it's as easy as just deciding not to abort and then living life as usual for the next however many months. I had a relatively easy pregnancy the first time, but it was not without consequence to my life at that time either.

That's depressing. You had an abortion because it was about $500 cheaper than the abortion? Why not get your tubes tied if you absolutely can't stand the physical part of the pregnancy? I just can't understand why intelligent, educated women who do not want to get pregnant do in fact get pregnant.

No, I had an abortion because being pregnant is not the difficulty-free experience that some potential adoptive families make it out to be. Note that I say "SOME" and not "ALL", because I know adoptive families who are in no way that naive. I had an abortion because I didn't want to be pregnant. I had previously taken measures to avoid ending up in that position at all, and those measures, despite being used correctly every time, failed one month.

I understand from the frustrating experiences my friends have had with the adoption process that it is hard to see women terminating pregnancies. I understand that people who desperately want a child themselves, who have been willing to go through medical hardship and financial hardship to have a child, may have a hard time understanding why another person would not be willing to make those choices.

The bottom line is that you do not get to choose for me. You do not get to force me to bear and birth a child so that you can have one. You are free to feel about me however you wish. Frankly, since I do not know you and you do not know me and neither one of us know anything other than what has been posted here, I don't really care what you think of me. I am comfortable with my decision, but I would NEVER force a woman to terminate a pregnancy she wanted to continue. I would also never force a woman to continue a pregnancy she wanted to terminate. That's what "pro-choice" means.

[Anonymous]

14:23 here. One other thing - often in the contexts of abortion discussion (when it dovetails with welfare discussion, which is often), much is made of caring for the children you have before bringing more into the world. That's exactly what I was doing. Having another baby last year would have had pretty real ramifications on my daughter's life. We would have had to move. We wouldn't be able to afford the same lifestyle we have now (which is hardly extravagant - our HHI is $120k gross). I chose to prioritize what I thought was best for her, as women are so often advised to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pro-life troll, please answer. Do you feel the same way about the baby killing bitches doing IVF?

NP. And please tell us how you feel about the baby-killing bitches like me who have terminated ectopic pregnancies.

Another pro-life poster. Aborting an ectopic pregnancy is nothing like aborting a normal healthy pregnancy. Do you honestly believe that pro-lifers would view it the same way?

Yes. Or is it "justifiable murder?" Either you're taking a life, or you're not. Or you're saying it's ok to take a life when x or y happens, but not z. You hypocrites.

The embryo in an ectopic pregnancy has NO CHANCE OF SURVIVAL. Do you really think pro-lifers are that stupid?

Er, yes they are. Plenty of pro-lifers want ectopic pregnancies to take their natural course. The health of the mother is of no consequence.

Liar. You're full of shit. I don't believe you have ever heard a pro-life person anywhere say that.

Yes, there are a number of pro-life people who believe that abortion should be prohibited under all circumstances, even ectopic pregnancy. I've included links in case you want to see for yourself. From the website of American Right to Life:

"Abortion has so hardened the heart of the medical community that no thought is given to the unborn child who is growing outside of the uterus. While government and medical industry websites claim that the baby cannot survive ectopic pregnancy, in truth, hundreds of such babies are reported as surviving abdominal, ovarian, and tubal ectopic pregnancies. For the documentation of these babies wonderful survival, see the impeccably referenced meta study: Ectopic Personhood, by Bill Fortenberry. In situ and even by transplant to the uterus (as documented below), the ectopic child often can survive. In so many cases though, the child will die and so might the mother unless a physician intervenes. Those who desire to justify abortion claim that such a complication proves their point because proper medical treatment for an ectopic pregnancy requires the intentional killing of the embryo. As demonstrated extensively by a number of medical studies, by Fortenberry, and uniquely, below, this is not true. But consider their motivation and the form of their argument." http://americanrtl.org/life-of-the-mother-exception

From Bill Fortenberry's article on the Personhood Initiative website:

"As we can see, ectopic pregnancies are not necessarily fatal for either the mother or the child. The mother’s survival is almost certain, and the survival of the child is at least possible if not probable. Dr. Koop was correct. The personhood of the unborn child does not conflict with the need to protect the life of the mother for the simple reason that abortion is never necessary for that protection. There are other solutions available. More than one obstetrician has recommended that women with ectopic pregnancies should be placed under the constant vigil of a well equipped hospital until their children have developed enough to be delivered alive rather than sacrificed unnecessarily.[34] Ectopic pregnancies can be survived, and we can prohibit all abortions without any exceptions." http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/ectopic-personhood.html

I'm the original ectopic pregnancy poster, and all I can say to that is WOW. I wonder at what point these people would have suggested a doctor transfer my abnormally-developing embryo from my Fallopian tube to my uterus during my first ectopic pregnancy. When I was hemorrhaging during my emergency laparotomy? I suppose with my second ectopic that a transfer of that abnormally-developing embryo should have been performed, and I should have spent the next 7.5 months in the hospital "under constant vigil", unable to take care of my toddler or work to support out family. That sounds like a recipe for success all around.

I am the PP who posted the info from American Right to Life and Fortenberry. I imagine those people would vilify me as a baby killer too, since I had to end a very much wanted pregnancy at 20 weeks because of a massive infection in my uterus. I was induced, was in labor all day, and delivered a baby girl who could not survive the delivery. She was born sleeping and the hospital chaplain baptized her for us. I suppose I could have stayed in the hospital for weeks, been pumped with IV antibiotics, risking my life and my future fertility, only to deliver a baby with minimal chance of a healthy outcome. I can't think of any ethical doctor who practices science-based medicine who would agree to such an approach. And like the PP with the ectopic pregnancies, I wouldn't have been able to care for my 5 year old son or work to support my family (of course this is irrelevant to Fortenberry and his ilk). Together with my husband and my medical team, we made the only rational choice. It was heartbreaking and it was the darkest day of my life. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. But it have never regretted it. I have always been pro-choice, but after this traumatizing experience, I am even more staunchly pro-choice. I wonder if any of these irrational, extremist anti-choice people (I can't even call them pro-life) have ever personally faced a crisis pregnancy. It's not black-and white. It's not all sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes pregnancies can go horribly wrong. How they are resolved should be up to the woman, her family, her medical team, and her spiritual advisor if she chooses to consult one.

Ectopic pregnancy PP here. I am so, so sorry you and your family had to go through that. I cannot imagine how heartbreaking it must have been.

And I agree with every word in your post. Every one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today my friend who had an abortion says she wished her "support" person had made some effort to talk her out of it. There were other options.

She and a lot of people. Her voice won't drown out the extreme voices on either side. These women suffer silently and when she talks about it, it will be taboo. Her pro life friends will drown her with crap about Jesus and her pro choice friends will trivialize her feelings. Those with good professional experience like some OBs can understand. The pain is immense and she will never stop thinking about her child, her little friend, who only she knew.
The extreme views make it hard for any logic to come into this. In the end there are women who are being hurt by a system that refuses to be intellectually honest. There IS post abortion stress, no different than PTSD. And for some women, that is not worth it, they would have rather struggled with the child than live through that. And these are NOT religious people, they are just humans with normal emotions.

OP here. This is the category my friend falls into. She has always considered herself pro-choice but didn't think she could ever have an abortion personally. Then she got pregnant at a very inopportune time in an exceedingly bad relationship and health situation, and she made the choice that would spare the child a lifetime of difficulty. It was heartbreaking for her, and I doubt she will ever forget about the little life that was inside of her. There was another young woman in the waiting room who was also there to have an abortion. She started chatting with me while my friend was in the back. She was perfectly upbeat and it was pretty clear that this was just like any other doctor's appointment for her, she was just bummed that her boyfriend couldn't get off work so they could go to Five Guys after. There seems to be a huge range of feelings women have about this procedure. It doesn't do anyone any favors to diminish or hyperbolize the degree to which something like this can weigh on a person.

Ugh. This is another of the fake abortion posts, isn't it. Guys, can you please go spam another board?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

First, I apologize to real DCUMers because I'm apparently entertaining a troll. Second, I ask not of this particular troll but of all abortion -related morons out there: Where were you for Relisha? What are you doing for the next Relisha?

Who is Relisha and what does she have to do with justifying killing babies? What are you doing for the next Relisha since you know so much about her? Or is "just kill 'em all" your motto.

I would be a troll if I was responding because I thought it was funny. This is not funny and it is nothing to troll about.

If you don't know who Relisha is you can get the fuck off this board, since if you don't you are clearly not a DC urban mom.

So what you are saying is that you lack the ability to have an intellectual conversation, and that you really cannot connect this girl you brought up to the subject at hand.

Therefore you are just throwing things at the wall, and hoping something sticks so that you don't have to address your bloodthirsty tendencies and lack of regard for innocent humans being slaughtered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disgusting. I would not support the murder of a baby.

We sit silently while innocent children are slaughtered and then wonder why people have no respect for human life when someone beats up an old person or runs over a child and keeps driving.

Stop patting yourself on the back OP. You are a terrible friend and a sorry excuse for a human being.

When I see a post like this, I feel many emotions. Mostly I'm just thankful I'm not so stupid and closed minded. Good luck with your future, weirdo child-like person who thinks life is black and white.

Yes, I am closed-minded to the idea of killing babies.

A society that has no respect for the most innocent of lives is a very dangerous society.

+1000

So do you also condemn those who do IVF?

Pro-life poster, why do you keep avoiding this question? Did you yourself murder babies as part of the cost of getting the family you thought you deserved?

This was the first time this question was addressed to me.

I don't know enough about IVF to have a strong opinion aside from the fact that if you need to have IVF, perhaps you should consider that a sign of nature/God/your body saying NO.

*Quick google*

No, I do not believe in playing God or killing babies because you are infertile. I'm sad for your loss of fertility, but not sad enough to say that it's okay to turn "life" into some sort of sick science experiment.

Do I "condemn" you for it? No. There is a difference between opposing someones actions and condemning them as a person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

First, I apologize to real DCUMers because I'm apparently entertaining a troll. Second, I ask not of this particular troll but of all abortion -related morons out there: Where were you for Relisha? What are you doing for the next Relisha?

Who is Relisha and what does she have to do with justifying killing babies? What are you doing for the next Relisha since you know so much about her? Or is "just kill 'em all" your motto.

I would be a troll if I was responding because I thought it was funny. This is not funny and it is nothing to troll about.

If you don't know who Relisha is you can get the fuck off this board, since if you don't you are clearly not a DC urban mom.

So what you are saying is that you lack the ability to have an intellectual conversation, and that you really cannot connect this girl you brought up to the subject at hand.

Therefore you are just throwing things at the wall, and hoping something sticks so that you don't have to address your bloodthirsty tendencies and lack of regard for innocent humans being slaughtered.

But really. You don't live in or around DC if you don't know who this poor girl is. Her story is heartbreaking. And PP is trying to show that your concern for children seems to begin and end with posting incendiary messages about fetuses on message board in a city where you don't live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pro-life troll, please answer. Do you feel the same way about the baby killing bitches doing IVF?

NP. And please tell us how you feel about the baby-killing bitches like me who have terminated ectopic pregnancies.

Another pro-life poster. Aborting an ectopic pregnancy is nothing like aborting a normal healthy pregnancy. Do you honestly believe that pro-lifers would view it the same way?

Yes. Or is it "justifiable murder?" Either you're taking a life, or you're not. Or you're saying it's ok to take a life when x or y happens, but not z. You hypocrites.

The embryo in an ectopic pregnancy has NO CHANCE OF SURVIVAL. Do you really think pro-lifers are that stupid?

Er, yes they are. Plenty of pro-lifers want ectopic pregnancies to take their natural course. The health of the mother is of no consequence.

Liar. You're full of shit. I don't believe you have ever heard a pro-life person anywhere say that.

Yes, there are a number of pro-life people who believe that abortion should be prohibited under all circumstances, even ectopic pregnancy. I've included links in case you want to see for yourself. From the website of American Right to Life:

"Abortion has so hardened the heart of the medical community that no thought is given to the unborn child who is growing outside of the uterus. While government and medical industry websites claim that the baby cannot survive ectopic pregnancy, in truth, hundreds of such babies are reported as surviving abdominal, ovarian, and tubal ectopic pregnancies. For the documentation of these babies wonderful survival, see the impeccably referenced meta study: Ectopic Personhood, by Bill Fortenberry. In situ and even by transplant to the uterus (as documented below), the ectopic child often can survive. In so many cases though, the child will die and so might the mother unless a physician intervenes. Those who desire to justify abortion claim that such a complication proves their point because proper medical treatment for an ectopic pregnancy requires the intentional killing of the embryo. As demonstrated extensively by a number of medical studies, by Fortenberry, and uniquely, below, this is not true. But consider their motivation and the form of their argument." http://americanrtl.org/life-of-the-mother-exception

From Bill Fortenberry's article on the Personhood Initiative website:

"As we can see, ectopic pregnancies are not necessarily fatal for either the mother or the child. The mother’s survival is almost certain, and the survival of the child is at least possible if not probable. Dr. Koop was correct. The personhood of the unborn child does not conflict with the need to protect the life of the mother for the simple reason that abortion is never necessary for that protection. There are other solutions available. More than one obstetrician has recommended that women with ectopic pregnancies should be placed under the constant vigil of a well equipped hospital until their children have developed enough to be delivered alive rather than sacrificed unnecessarily.[34] Ectopic pregnancies can be survived, and we can prohibit all abortions without any exceptions." http://www.personhoodinitiative.com/ectopic-personhood.html

I'm the original ectopic pregnancy poster, and all I can say to that is WOW. I wonder at what point these people would have suggested a doctor transfer my abnormally-developing embryo from my Fallopian tube to my uterus during my first ectopic pregnancy. When I was hemorrhaging during my emergency laparotomy? I suppose with my second ectopic that a transfer of that abnormally-developing embryo should have been performed, and I should have spent the next 7.5 months in the hospital "under constant vigil", unable to take care of my toddler or work to support out family. That sounds like a recipe for success all around.

I am the PP who posted the info from American Right to Life and Fortenberry. I imagine those people would vilify me as a baby killer too, since I had to end a very much wanted pregnancy at 20 weeks because of a massive infection in my uterus. I was induced, was in labor all day, and delivered a baby girl who could not survive the delivery. She was born sleeping and the hospital chaplain baptized her for us. I suppose I could have stayed in the hospital for weeks, been pumped with IV antibiotics, risking my life and my future fertility, only to deliver a baby with minimal chance of a healthy outcome. I can't think of any ethical doctor who practices science-based medicine who would agree to such an approach. And like the PP with the ectopic pregnancies, I wouldn't have been able to care for my 5 year old son or work to support my family (of course this is irrelevant to Fortenberry and his ilk). Together with my husband and my medical team, we made the only rational choice. It was heartbreaking and it was the darkest day of my life. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. But it have never regretted it. I have always been pro-choice, but after this traumatizing experience, I am even more staunchly pro-choice. I wonder if any of these irrational, extremist anti-choice people (I can't even call them pro-life) have ever personally faced a crisis pregnancy. It's not black-and white. It's not all sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes pregnancies can go horribly wrong. How they are resolved should be up to the woman, her family, her medical team, and her spiritual advisor if she chooses to consult one.

I am so sorry, PP, and am so sorry that I have just these feeble words. I have not had a pregnancy crisis, but watched my sister go through one last year and now I have a terror of this pregnancy ending poorly. Hers was such that she had an abortion at 15 weeks. I was always pro-choice (some would say militantly), but watching that strengthened my beliefs. Peace to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NP. And please tell us how you feel about the baby-killing bitches like me who have terminated ectopic pregnancies.

The intent is not to kill the child. The intent is to correct a medical issue and save the mother in a sad case where the child is not going to able to grow and develop. The child is not in the uterus. Nature has said "no". I consider this a medical procedure.

I do not consider what is typically called abortion to be a medical procedure. I consider to be a callous disregard for human life only suitable for savages.

That doesn't mean that I feel the same way about all other issues that are called medical because children do live after being diagnosed with certain issues, and children are born healthy after being told that they have issues.

In general, I do not believe in "but, but, but...." You can "but" your way into justifying anything and it's not necessary. There is no reason on earth for society to have such a casual attitude about killing babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

First, I apologize to real DCUMers because I'm apparently entertaining a troll. Second, I ask not of this particular troll but of all abortion -related morons out there: Where were you for Relisha? What are you doing for the next Relisha?

Who is Relisha and what does she have to do with justifying killing babies? What are you doing for the next Relisha since you know so much about her? Or is "just kill 'em all" your motto.

I would be a troll if I was responding because I thought it was funny. This is not funny and it is nothing to troll about.

If you don't know who Relisha is you can get the fuck off this board, since if you don't you are clearly not a DC urban mom.

So what you are saying is that you lack the ability to have an intellectual conversation, and that you really cannot connect this girl you brought up to the subject at hand.

Therefore you are just throwing things at the wall, and hoping something sticks so that you don't have to address your bloodthirsty tendencies and lack of regard for innocent humans being slaughtered.

Did you even bother to look up who Relisha is? I'm guessing not, since you're just slinging insults at the PP, and that's incredibly offensive. The direct correlation that I see is this: anti-choicers tend to favor only the policies that would get more people born. They don't care about wider insurance coverage, they don't care about pay parity, or a living minimum wage (and they tend to be embarrassingly under-informed in regards to why these issues are important at all), they don't care about a strong safety net in general - such as one that might have caught Relisha... If you want to talk the anti-choice talk, you might want to walk the true caring path of making sure that more people can take care of their own families.

And again, here's where the insane cruelty of the anti-choice opinion is like swallowing glass: if abortion were illegal today, it wouldn't stop it. Those with money would fly to where it's legal - my mother remembers a classmate going abroad in the middle of the school year - those without risk their lives with whatever option they can find, or are forced to bear children they have decided they cannot have. That is an immoral position and undermines whatever moral ground you perceive yourself to have.