Second Shift - sucks for dads too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

My husband and his friends, all of whom have wives who work, some of whom are the breadwinners, think men who don't do stuff like drop their kids off are lazy and pathetic excuses for husbands and fathers. They don't pat themselves on the back, they feel sorry for the wives with waste of space husbands.

Yeah the way people talk about men doing parenting and housework on DCUM is completely foreign to me. I know very few families where dad doesn't do drop off or pickup or both, I know more families where mom doesn't cook dinner than where dad doesn't cook dinner. No one talks about it as a big deal, it's just a thing.

I'm so happy for you

My brother has a 1 year old and when we talk he'll sometimes refer dramatically to the days when he is the "primary parent". Can you imagine a woman saying that?

who makes more money and has a more demanding job - (regardless of sex) that's the primary breadwinner, which makes the other spiuce the primary parent

.

What if they both work 50 hours/week, but one makes 20% less. They need both incomes. Are you suggesting the partner that makes more gets to shirk at home, even though they are both home the same #of hours? I don’t understand.

Yes, that’s exactly what most people on Dcum think. If you make less money you have to do more at home in terms of childcare and household responsibilities. It doesn’t matter if your job is the same amount of hours as your spouse.

Since now I’m aware that so many people actually think this way, I’ll encourage my daughters to go into more lucrative careers so that they can have a more equitable marriage where responsibilities are divided fairly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

My husband and his friends, all of whom have wives who work, some of whom are the breadwinners, think men who don't do stuff like drop their kids off are lazy and pathetic excuses for husbands and fathers. They don't pat themselves on the back, they feel sorry for the wives with waste of space husbands.

Yeah the way people talk about men doing parenting and housework on DCUM is completely foreign to me. I know very few families where dad doesn't do drop off or pickup or both, I know more families where mom doesn't cook dinner than where dad doesn't cook dinner. No one talks about it as a big deal, it's just a thing.

I'm so happy for you

My brother has a 1 year old and when we talk he'll sometimes refer dramatically to the days when he is the "primary parent". Can you imagine a woman saying that?

who makes more money and has a more demanding job - (regardless of sex) that's the primary breadwinner, which makes the other spiuce the primary parent

.

What if they both work 50 hours/week, but one makes 20% less. They need both incomes. Are you suggesting the partner that makes more gets to shirk at home, even though they are both home the same #of hours? I don’t understand.

Yes, that’s exactly what most people on Dcum think. If you make less money you have to do more at home in terms of childcare and household responsibilities. It doesn’t matter if your job is the same amount of hours as your spouse.

Since now I’m aware that so many people actually think this way, I’ll encourage my daughters to go into more lucrative careers so that they can have a more equitable marriage where responsibilities are divided fairly.

Ah, but under DCUM logic, the lower-earning partner only has to do more work at home if she's a woman. If the woman earns more, she can't expect her husband to be the primary parent or do more housework -- that's apparently emasculating.

The DCUM solution is for both parents to make lots of money, and outsource the work at home to much lower paid immigrant women. This is the only way to have an "equitable" marriage according to DCUM. I don't know, maybe that's true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we moved out of DC and to a lower COL area. The commute (each of us drove one hour in opposite directions - me into DC and him into Fairfax) was ridiculous. The housing prices were insane. The "good" public schools weren't that great and the private schools were astronomical. I was a fed lawyer, so I'm not discounting how hard it can be to change jobs, but it was so worth it for us.

Our other friends had one of the parents quit and stay at home. They now have a different set of stressors but some things are easier (especially as kids get older and need a lot more driving around after school with sports and such).

Our other friends moved way out to the far away burbs and one of them took a job that they could do remotely so that only had a bad commute.

Our other friends left the government for private sector work that pays more so now they can outsource things like laundry and yard work.

There's no one right answer, but I feel your pain and we were fortunate to be able to do something to alleviate it. I hope you're able to find some relief.

Useful (and empathetic) insights here.

I am always curious, though, when people post this *where* specifically they moved to - I can understand not wanting to share for identifiability reasons, but there are so many real benefits to the DC area (high quality schools, cultural institutions, specific technical jobs) that I’d love more specifics about what other places can still work out well.

I'll PP and I'll tell you - we moved to Norfolk, Virginia. We live in a very nice neighborhood on the water and our kids go to Norfolk Academy. We have a yacht and country club not too far from our house, we have a boat, we custom built a large house so we can easily entertain and have guests stay with us, we have an amazing neighborhood friend group, a great school community (those two things overlap, most of the kids in our neighborhood attend NA), and we're very happy here.

Appreciate this, thank you! (And the comment above re: Maine).

This is also reminding me that one of our other favorite things about the DMV is the easy access to recreation and hiking trails - but, that’s certainly a feature that can be quite easily found in many other places.

A bigger constraint for us is my job and skill set (highly specialized) but I might start looking more aggressively into remote options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

My husband and his friends, all of whom have wives who work, some of whom are the breadwinners, think men who don't do stuff like drop their kids off are lazy and pathetic excuses for husbands and fathers. They don't pat themselves on the back, they feel sorry for the wives with waste of space husbands.

Yeah the way people talk about men doing parenting and housework on DCUM is completely foreign to me. I know very few families where dad doesn't do drop off or pickup or both, I know more families where mom doesn't cook dinner than where dad doesn't cook dinner. No one talks about it as a big deal, it's just a thing.

I'm so happy for you

My brother has a 1 year old and when we talk he'll sometimes refer dramatically to the days when he is the "primary parent". Can you imagine a woman saying that?

who makes more money and has a more demanding job - (regardless of sex) that's the primary breadwinner, which makes the other spiuce the primary parent

.

What if they both work 50 hours/week, but one makes 20% less. They need both incomes. Are you suggesting the partner that makes more gets to shirk at home, even though they are both home the same #of hours? I don’t understand.

Yes, that’s exactly what most people on Dcum think. If you make less money you have to do more at home in terms of childcare and household responsibilities. It doesn’t matter if your job is the same amount of hours as your spouse.

Since now I’m aware that so many people actually think this way, I’ll encourage my daughters to go into more lucrative careers so that they can have a more equitable marriage where responsibilities are divided fairly.

Ah, but under DCUM logic, the lower-earning partner only has to do more work at home if she's a woman. If the woman earns more, she can't expect her husband to be the primary parent or do more housework -- that's apparently emasculating.

The DCUM solution is for both parents to make lots of money, and outsource the work at home to much lower paid immigrant women. This is the only way to have an "equitable" marriage according to DCUM. I don't know, maybe that's true.

I think there's a bigger issue at play here. I can speak for myself, at least, but I don't want what some 1950s dad had. I am the higher earner with a pretty high-profile job, and my husband is a great partner and leans in a ton. That said, I still want to do as much as I can with my kids and for my household. Maybe it's hard-wired into me as a mother/woman, but I didn't have kids to out-source them, even to my partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!


I thought it was fabulous and amazing to be a WOHM, and SAHMs were a waste of space!!

I thought - SAHMs provided zero value when - house was clean, laundry done, meals cooked, grocery bought, cars serviced, house organized, bills paid, drycleaning picked, social engagements met, entertaining done, kids school and ECs nailed, eldercare sorted, petcare done, yardwork sorted, haircuts scheduled, wellness checkups done, dental and eye exams done, home remodeling/improvement thoughtfully done.

Oh dear! What happened?? Why has life become so shitty???

No, you misunderstood. It was just that the SAHM crying how they have the hardest job in the world that gets derision.

I have been both.
SAHM is hard in the early years. I LOVED it when I went back to work once the kids were parked in elementary school. I could actually slowly sip my tea and read thru the morning emails in peace.
An SAHM with a well run house and zero help, inclusive of fixing appliances and troubleshooting the HVAC makes family life possibe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we moved out of DC and to a lower COL area. The commute (each of us drove one hour in opposite directions - me into DC and him into Fairfax) was ridiculous. The housing prices were insane. The "good" public schools weren't that great and the private schools were astronomical. I was a fed lawyer, so I'm not discounting how hard it can be to change jobs, but it was so worth it for us.

Our other friends had one of the parents quit and stay at home. They now have a different set of stressors but some things are easier (especially as kids get older and need a lot more driving around after school with sports and such).

Our other friends moved way out to the far away burbs and one of them took a job that they could do remotely so that only had a bad commute.

Our other friends left the government for private sector work that pays more so now they can outsource things like laundry and yard work.

There's no one right answer, but I feel your pain and we were fortunate to be able to do something to alleviate it. I hope you're able to find some relief.

Useful (and empathetic) insights here.

I am always curious, though, when people post this *where* specifically they moved to - I can understand not wanting to share for identifiability reasons, but there are so many real benefits to the DC area (high quality schools, cultural institutions, specific technical jobs) that I’d love more specifics about what other places can still work out well.

We moved to the Portland, Maine area just before Covid and our quality of life has improved dramatically.

I grew up in the DC area and the benefits of living there are vastly overrated IMO.

🍪?

Question asked, question answered.

In the summer we go to the beach for a swim after work and a lobster roll and ice cream on the way home.

Do I get a cookie for that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

My husband and his friends, all of whom have wives who work, some of whom are the breadwinners, think men who don't do stuff like drop their kids off are lazy and pathetic excuses for husbands and fathers. They don't pat themselves on the back, they feel sorry for the wives with waste of space husbands.

Yeah the way people talk about men doing parenting and housework on DCUM is completely foreign to me. I know very few families where dad doesn't do drop off or pickup or both, I know more families where mom doesn't cook dinner than where dad doesn't cook dinner. No one talks about it as a big deal, it's just a thing.

I'm so happy for you

My brother has a 1 year old and when we talk he'll sometimes refer dramatically to the days when he is the "primary parent". Can you imagine a woman saying that?

who makes more money and has a more demanding job - (regardless of sex) that's the primary breadwinner, which makes the other spiuce the primary parent

Their jobs are both demanding. My brother makes more more money than his wife, but her job is more stable and has better benefits.

My brother chose to have a kid with a person who is extremely intelligent and career driven. He knew very well they would both be balancing work and family life. I definitely get the sense he is an active parent but he clearly carries with him some idea that by being a parent that is present for the kid he chose to bring into the world, he is doing something cool and unusual for a man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!


I thought it was fabulous and amazing to be a WOHM, and SAHMs were a waste of space!!

I thought - SAHMs provided zero value when - house was clean, laundry done, meals cooked, grocery bought, cars serviced, house organized, bills paid, drycleaning picked, social engagements met, entertaining done, kids school and ECs nailed, eldercare sorted, petcare done, yardwork sorted, haircuts scheduled, wellness checkups done, dental and eye exams done, home remodeling/improvement thoughtfully done.

Oh dear! What happened?? Why has life become so shitty???

Wow, scrapping the barrel there.

lol that one and “paying bills”. Sahm always list this as an important task and really how long does this take?

Regards paying bills -
Monitoring for overcharges. Disputing Healthcare refusal to reimburse or false billings. And oh yeah, getting the old car off the insurance and getting the new one on - this last one i found out spouse had forgotten because HE was in charge of that and we were paying for several car insurances. That's what happens if someone is not on top of this.
Kids mobile phone renewals, parking thei number be ause they are studying in the UK. Trying to pay UK tuition because they dont ever contact you only the kid.
Checking performance of retirement accounts and moving funds per FED omens. Summer camp deposits, contractual forms, tracking number of music lessons and to keep the payments going because the teacher can be a bit squirrelly. Plumber servi e payments, making g sure they actually did the work....
If no one is on top of any of this, you can get fleeced easily.

I speak as a former SAHM. It i love working, it is so much easier on some levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!


I thought it was fabulous and amazing to be a WOHM, and SAHMs were a waste of space!!

I thought - SAHMs provided zero value when - house was clean, laundry done, meals cooked, grocery bought, cars serviced, house organized, bills paid, drycleaning picked, social engagements met, entertaining done, kids school and ECs nailed, eldercare sorted, petcare done, yardwork sorted, haircuts scheduled, wellness checkups done, dental and eye exams done, home remodeling/improvement thoughtfully done.

Oh dear! What happened?? Why has life become so shitty???

Wow, scrapping the barrel there.

lol that one and “paying bills”. Sahm always list this as an important task and really how long does this take?

Regards paying bills -
Monitoring for overcharges. Disputing Healthcare refusal to reimburse or false billings. And oh yeah, getting the old car off the insurance and getting the new one on - this last one i found out spouse had forgotten because HE was in charge of that and we were paying for several car insurances. That's what happens if someone is not on top of this.
Kids mobile phone renewals, parking thei number be ause they are studying in the UK. Trying to pay UK tuition because they dont ever contact you only the kid.
Checking performance of retirement accounts and moving funds per FED omens. Summer camp deposits, contractual forms, tracking number of music lessons and to keep the payments going because the teacher can be a bit squirrelly. Plumber servi e payments, making g sure they actually did the work....
If no one is on top of any of this, you can get fleeced easily.

I speak as a former SAHM. It i love working, it is so much easier on some levels.

I'm a working mom and I "pay the bills" and yes, it's a ton of work. Our issues are different from yours but yes. It's really way more than paying bills, it's financial management and bleeds into other tasks like vacation planning (it's easier for the person who understand where all the money is and how it's allocated to plan something with a variable cost that might require deal-hunting or creating alternative plans based on budget).

One of the jobs I do as "primary parent" and the person with the lower paying, less demanding job is deal with our HOA. You might say "oh, how much work could that possibly be?" I would have said that before as well. It's really annoying. Our HOA meets quarterly and also sometimes calls for votes between meetings on things that directly impact our household (stuff like issuing a special assessment for a maintenance item, or changing a policy that impacts where our kids play) so I have to stay on top of that, not miss votes, etc. For three years prior to this, I was roped into being treasurer on the HOA board (because we were at the time only one of 6 owners in the neighborhood who had been here over a year, didn't rent our place out, or were not currently selling, just an annoying cross-over period when there were very few people available for board roles). That was a TON of work, so freaking annoying, I had to process all invoices, maintain all the budget spreadsheets, and do presentations on budget at every meeting. This is the kind of thing people get dragged into doing all the time because they are responsible, functional people, and no one else will do it. It adds up to a lot of work when you put it all together.

I could easily put together a full-time job with the unpaid stuff I do for the kids, our family, and our community. Easily. I wish I could afford to be a SAHM. I wish my DH didn't have a one our commute both ways to work (or that we could move closer to his job). I wish I could afford to pay someone else to do all the boring, annoying crap like paying bills and invoices and hiring a roofer and researching water heaters before ours totally craps out and getting the oil changed in the car and remembering to log into the portal to pay our kid's therapy bills and remembering when camp sign up happens and figuring out how which document is missing from our school re-enrollment when we get the vague email about it and on and on and on. But I don't, so I do it. It's hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

My husband and his friends, all of whom have wives who work, some of whom are the breadwinners, think men who don't do stuff like drop their kids off are lazy and pathetic excuses for husbands and fathers. They don't pat themselves on the back, they feel sorry for the wives with waste of space husbands.

Yeah the way people talk about men doing parenting and housework on DCUM is completely foreign to me. I know very few families where dad doesn't do drop off or pickup or both, I know more families where mom doesn't cook dinner than where dad doesn't cook dinner. No one talks about it as a big deal, it's just a thing.

I'm so happy for you

My brother has a 1 year old and when we talk he'll sometimes refer dramatically to the days when he is the "primary parent". Can you imagine a woman saying that?

What? Women literally do this *all the time*. They’ll even refer to themselves as single mom when they’re doing 50% or less of the parenting…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

My husband and his friends, all of whom have wives who work, some of whom are the breadwinners, think men who don't do stuff like drop their kids off are lazy and pathetic excuses for husbands and fathers. They don't pat themselves on the back, they feel sorry for the wives with waste of space husbands.

Yeah the way people talk about men doing parenting and housework on DCUM is completely foreign to me. I know very few families where dad doesn't do drop off or pickup or both, I know more families where mom doesn't cook dinner than where dad doesn't cook dinner. No one talks about it as a big deal, it's just a thing.

I'm so happy for you

My brother has a 1 year old and when we talk he'll sometimes refer dramatically to the days when he is the "primary parent". Can you imagine a woman saying that?

What? Women literally do this *all the time*. They’ll even refer to themselves as single mom when they’re doing 50% or less of the parenting…

Nope, women do not talk about how they are "the primary parent" because they cared for their own child for 12 hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we moved out of DC and to a lower COL area. The commute (each of us drove one hour in opposite directions - me into DC and him into Fairfax) was ridiculous. The housing prices were insane. The "good" public schools weren't that great and the private schools were astronomical. I was a fed lawyer, so I'm not discounting how hard it can be to change jobs, but it was so worth it for us.

Our other friends had one of the parents quit and stay at home. They now have a different set of stressors but some things are easier (especially as kids get older and need a lot more driving around after school with sports and such).

Our other friends moved way out to the far away burbs and one of them took a job that they could do remotely so that only had a bad commute.

Our other friends left the government for private sector work that pays more so now they can outsource things like laundry and yard work.

There's no one right answer, but I feel your pain and we were fortunate to be able to do something to alleviate it. I hope you're able to find some relief.

Useful (and empathetic) insights here.

I am always curious, though, when people post this *where* specifically they moved to - I can understand not wanting to share for identifiability reasons, but there are so many real benefits to the DC area (high quality schools, cultural institutions, specific technical jobs) that I’d love more specifics about what other places can still work out well.

I'll PP and I'll tell you - we moved to Norfolk, Virginia. We live in a very nice neighborhood on the water and our kids go to Norfolk Academy. We have a yacht and country club not too far from our house, we have a boat, we custom built a large house so we can easily entertain and have guests stay with us, we have an amazing neighborhood friend group, a great school community (those two things overlap, most of the kids in our neighborhood attend NA), and we're very happy here.

DP and this sounds lovely. What does a nice home in your area cost, if you don’t mind my asking? Also what is the school tuition?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

My husband and his friends, all of whom have wives who work, some of whom are the breadwinners, think men who don't do stuff like drop their kids off are lazy and pathetic excuses for husbands and fathers. They don't pat themselves on the back, they feel sorry for the wives with waste of space husbands.

Yeah the way people talk about men doing parenting and housework on DCUM is completely foreign to me. I know very few families where dad doesn't do drop off or pickup or both, I know more families where mom doesn't cook dinner than where dad doesn't cook dinner. No one talks about it as a big deal, it's just a thing.

I'm so happy for you

My brother has a 1 year old and when we talk he'll sometimes refer dramatically to the days when he is the "primary parent". Can you imagine a woman saying that?

What? Women literally do this *all the time*. They’ll even refer to themselves as single mom when they’re doing 50% or less of the parenting…

Nope, women do not talk about how they are "the primary parent" because they cared for their own child for 12 hours

-1. I hear this from women all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

My husband and his friends, all of whom have wives who work, some of whom are the breadwinners, think men who don't do stuff like drop their kids off are lazy and pathetic excuses for husbands and fathers. They don't pat themselves on the back, they feel sorry for the wives with waste of space husbands.

Yeah the way people talk about men doing parenting and housework on DCUM is completely foreign to me. I know very few families where dad doesn't do drop off or pickup or both, I know more families where mom doesn't cook dinner than where dad doesn't cook dinner. No one talks about it as a big deal, it's just a thing.

I'm so happy for you

My brother has a 1 year old and when we talk he'll sometimes refer dramatically to the days when he is the "primary parent". Can you imagine a woman saying that?

who makes more money and has a more demanding job - (regardless of sex) that's the primary breadwinner, which makes the other spiuce the primary parent

.

What if they both work 50 hours/week, but one makes 20% less. They need both incomes. Are you suggesting the partner that makes more gets to shirk at home, even though they are both home the same #of hours? I don’t understand.

Yes, that’s exactly what most people on Dcum think. If you make less money you have to do more at home in terms of childcare and household responsibilities. It doesn’t matter if your job is the same amount of hours as your spouse.

Since now I’m aware that so many people actually think this way, I’ll encourage my daughters to go into more lucrative careers so that they can have a more equitable marriage where responsibilities are divided fairly.

Ah, but under DCUM logic, the lower-earning partner only has to do more work at home if she's a woman. If the woman earns more, she can't expect her husband to be the primary parent or do more housework -- that's apparently emasculating.

The DCUM solution is for both parents to make lots of money, and outsource the work at home to much lower paid immigrant women. This is the only way to have an "equitable" marriage according to DCUM. I don't know, maybe that's true.

I think there's a bigger issue at play here. I can speak for myself, at least, but I don't want what some 1950s dad had. I am the higher earner with a pretty high-profile job, and my husband is a great partner and leans in a ton. That said, I still want to do as much as I can with my kids and for my household. Maybe it's hard-wired into me as a mother/woman, but I didn't have kids to out-source them, even to my partner.

Your 1950s dad is a stereotype not a real person. My family had a father who was fully engaged during the 60s and then later as a grandfather.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

My husband and his friends, all of whom have wives who work, some of whom are the breadwinners, think men who don't do stuff like drop their kids off are lazy and pathetic excuses for husbands and fathers. They don't pat themselves on the back, they feel sorry for the wives with waste of space husbands.

Yeah the way people talk about men doing parenting and housework on DCUM is completely foreign to me. I know very few families where dad doesn't do drop off or pickup or both, I know more families where mom doesn't cook dinner than where dad doesn't cook dinner. No one talks about it as a big deal, it's just a thing.

I'm so happy for you

My brother has a 1 year old and when we talk he'll sometimes refer dramatically to the days when he is the "primary parent". Can you imagine a woman saying that?

What? Women literally do this *all the time*. They’ll even refer to themselves as single mom when they’re doing 50% or less of the parenting…

Nope, women do not talk about how they are "the primary parent" because they cared for their own child for 12 hours

Of course some women do just like many men do not ask to be lauded for taking care of their own child. Generalities are dumb. Arguing about generalities is even dumber.