Second Shift - sucks for dads too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would never leave the house with the dryer on.

then start the dryer when you get home.

Sorry, another tangent...

Most people are not using their washer/dryer every day, or using the shorter cycles to get laundry done quickly. Most of the times, clothes are not grimy or dirty and mostly you are washing the sweat off. . I can speed wash in 15-minutes cold cycles and the right products and then another 20-30 minutes for drying. Do daily loads, use short cycles and laundry is never an issue. Or, go to a laundromat. Nowadays they have huge machines and jumbo dryers.

You need longer cycles for enzymes to get out odor; detergent without phosphate is way way slower. You probably have gotten used to the odor because all your clothing and sheets have it.

Well, this is where this thread officially became completely unhinged. We are tearing down each other due to laundry philosophies FFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved our entire family across the country to a southern state we didn’t know anyone but found jobs in for this reason. Our life is so simple now. Just move, it’s 2026. You’re not on the Oregon trail, it’s not nearly as difficult as it sounds.

This just made me laugh out loud, thank you.

How is it simpler? Don't you have the same daily grind, but just in a state where you don't know anyone? (make breakfast, work all day, dropoff/pickup kids, make dinner, take them to their activities-albeit probably less intense ones, get ready for the next day of the same).

I'm the PP that laughed, not the one who made the original comment, although we also moved out of DC for the specific purpose of simplifying our lives. Pre-COVID we both worked out of the house (now we both work from home full-time with no plans to ever return to the office), but we had a nanny who was cheaper than our nanny in DC, we had commutes of 20 minutes each versus an hour, we built an amazing house for the same price as our older townhouse in Vienna, our kids are in an excellent private school where tuition is half the price of the school they were in before, and the pace of life is just slower here. Friends live closer, so we aren't going to birthday parties in Bethesda that take us an hour to get to, traffic isn't as bad, so we aren't white-knuckling it in the morning and evening, I could go on and on. Our kids are all in intense sports, we are all very social, we travel a lot, we have two dogs, we both work full-time jobs that are pretty demanding, but life is still so much easier than it was when we lived in DC. I honestly don't know why anyone stays if they don't have to. And yes, we both switched jobs in order to move, it's not like we just easily picked up and relocated, but it was so worth it.

How is your life different in this Shangri-La? It certainly doesn't sound simpler. Sounds like it is just cheaper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why we moved out of DC and to a lower COL area. The commute (each of us drove one hour in opposite directions - me into DC and him into Fairfax) was ridiculous. The housing prices were insane. The "good" public schools weren't that great and the private schools were astronomical. I was a fed lawyer, so I'm not discounting how hard it can be to change jobs, but it was so worth it for us.

Our other friends had one of the parents quit and stay at home. They now have a different set of stressors but some things are easier (especially as kids get older and need a lot more driving around after school with sports and such).

Our other friends moved way out to the far away burbs and one of them took a job that they could do remotely so that only had a bad commute.

Our other friends left the government for private sector work that pays more so now they can outsource things like laundry and yard work.

There's no one right answer, but I feel your pain and we were fortunate to be able to do something to alleviate it. I hope you're able to find some relief.

Useful (and empathetic) insights here.

I am always curious, though, when people post this *where* specifically they moved to - I can understand not wanting to share for identifiability reasons, but there are so many real benefits to the DC area (high quality schools, cultural institutions, specific technical jobs) that I’d love more specifics about what other places can still work out well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved our entire family across the country to a southern state we didn’t know anyone but found jobs in for this reason. Our life is so simple now. Just move, it’s 2026. You’re not on the Oregon trail, it’s not nearly as difficult as it sounds.

This just made me laugh out loud, thank you.

How is it simpler? Don't you have the same daily grind, but just in a state where you don't know anyone? (make breakfast, work all day, dropoff/pickup kids, make dinner, take them to their activities-albeit probably less intense ones, get ready for the next day of the same).

I'm the PP that laughed, not the one who made the original comment, although we also moved out of DC for the specific purpose of simplifying our lives. Pre-COVID we both worked out of the house (now we both work from home full-time with no plans to ever return to the office), but we had a nanny who was cheaper than our nanny in DC, we had commutes of 20 minutes each versus an hour, we built an amazing house for the same price as our older townhouse in Vienna, our kids are in an excellent private school where tuition is half the price of the school they were in before, and the pace of life is just slower here. Friends live closer, so we aren't going to birthday parties in Bethesda that take us an hour to get to, traffic isn't as bad, so we aren't white-knuckling it in the morning and evening, I could go on and on. Our kids are all in intense sports, we are all very social, we travel a lot, we have two dogs, we both work full-time jobs that are pretty demanding, but life is still so much easier than it was when we lived in DC. I honestly don't know why anyone stays if they don't have to. And yes, we both switched jobs in order to move, it's not like we just easily picked up and relocated, but it was so worth it.

I have all this by living in DC instead of Vienna

[Anonymous]

It is really hard. I dropped to part time work (70% - luckily still enough of decent salary) and some ability to work from home. It helped so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fastcompany.com/91496750/new-second-shift-burning-out-both-parents

We are a dual working parent household and I so wish we had understood how awful it would be.

We both work in office, commute 30-60 min each way, and work 8-9 hour days. We thought this would be a reasonable setup, with one going in a little early and the other late to handle the morning and evening kid wrangling.

But it has just drained our entire life away. There is always a mess in the house (and now the yard, yay spring), weekends are errands, 7 piles of laundry, cleaning, yardwork.

We don’t make the kind of money we can outsource, like in the article above where they order out for dinner (I think us Millennials order the most takeout of any generation?).

We have no nearby family, no extra cash, and every moment is spoken for. And of course now apparently the good schools we slaved to afford to buy zoned for don’t matter because there won’t be any jobs for our kids.

Just a PSA to GenZ…

Is there any way that one of you can quit working ? That’s no way to live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

My husband and his friends, all of whom have wives who work, some of whom are the breadwinners, think men who don't do stuff like drop their kids off are lazy and pathetic excuses for husbands and fathers. They don't pat themselves on the back, they feel sorry for the wives with waste of space husbands.

Yeah the way people talk about men doing parenting and housework on DCUM is completely foreign to me. I know very few families where dad doesn't do drop off or pickup or both, I know more families where mom doesn't cook dinner than where dad doesn't cook dinner. No one talks about it as a big deal, it's just a thing.

I'm so happy for you

My brother has a 1 year old and when we talk he'll sometimes refer dramatically to the days when he is the "primary parent". Can you imagine a woman saying that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved our entire family across the country to a southern state we didn’t know anyone but found jobs in for this reason. Our life is so simple now. Just move, it’s 2026. You’re not on the Oregon trail, it’s not nearly as difficult as it sounds.

This just made me laugh out loud, thank you.

How is it simpler? Don't you have the same daily grind, but just in a state where you don't know anyone? (make breakfast, work all day, dropoff/pickup kids, make dinner, take them to their activities-albeit probably less intense ones, get ready for the next day of the same).

I'm the PP that laughed, not the one who made the original comment, although we also moved out of DC for the specific purpose of simplifying our lives. Pre-COVID we both worked out of the house (now we both work from home full-time with no plans to ever return to the office), but we had a nanny who was cheaper than our nanny in DC, we had commutes of 20 minutes each versus an hour, we built an amazing house for the same price as our older townhouse in Vienna, our kids are in an excellent private school where tuition is half the price of the school they were in before, and the pace of life is just slower here. Friends live closer, so we aren't going to birthday parties in Bethesda that take us an hour to get to, traffic isn't as bad, so we aren't white-knuckling it in the morning and evening, I could go on and on. Our kids are all in intense sports, we are all very social, we travel a lot, we have two dogs, we both work full-time jobs that are pretty demanding, but life is still so much easier than it was when we lived in DC. I honestly don't know why anyone stays if they don't have to. And yes, we both switched jobs in order to move, it's not like we just easily picked up and relocated, but it was so worth it.

How is your life different in this Shangri-La? It certainly doesn't sound simpler. Sounds like it is just cheaper.

…you’re SO close…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

My husband and his friends, all of whom have wives who work, some of whom are the breadwinners, think men who don't do stuff like drop their kids off are lazy and pathetic excuses for husbands and fathers. They don't pat themselves on the back, they feel sorry for the wives with waste of space husbands.

Yeah the way people talk about men doing parenting and housework on DCUM is completely foreign to me. I know very few families where dad doesn't do drop off or pickup or both, I know more families where mom doesn't cook dinner than where dad doesn't cook dinner. No one talks about it as a big deal, it's just a thing.

I'm so happy for you

My brother has a 1 year old and when we talk he'll sometimes refer dramatically to the days when he is the "primary parent". Can you imagine a woman saying that?

who makes more money and has a more demanding job - (regardless of sex) that's the primary breadwinner, which makes the other spiuce the primary parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

My husband and his friends, all of whom have wives who work, some of whom are the breadwinners, think men who don't do stuff like drop their kids off are lazy and pathetic excuses for husbands and fathers. They don't pat themselves on the back, they feel sorry for the wives with waste of space husbands.

Yeah the way people talk about men doing parenting and housework on DCUM is completely foreign to me. I know very few families where dad doesn't do drop off or pickup or both, I know more families where mom doesn't cook dinner than where dad doesn't cook dinner. No one talks about it as a big deal, it's just a thing.

I'm so happy for you

My brother has a 1 year old and when we talk he'll sometimes refer dramatically to the days when he is the "primary parent". Can you imagine a woman saying that?

who makes more money and has a more demanding job - (regardless of sex) that's the primary breadwinner, which makes the other spiuce the primary parent

.

What if they both work 50 hours/week, but one makes 20% less. They need both incomes. Are you suggesting the partner that makes more gets to shirk at home, even though they are both home the same #of hours? I don’t understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we moved out of DC and to a lower COL area. The commute (each of us drove one hour in opposite directions - me into DC and him into Fairfax) was ridiculous. The housing prices were insane. The "good" public schools weren't that great and the private schools were astronomical. I was a fed lawyer, so I'm not discounting how hard it can be to change jobs, but it was so worth it for us.

Our other friends had one of the parents quit and stay at home. They now have a different set of stressors but some things are easier (especially as kids get older and need a lot more driving around after school with sports and such).

Our other friends moved way out to the far away burbs and one of them took a job that they could do remotely so that only had a bad commute.

Our other friends left the government for private sector work that pays more so now they can outsource things like laundry and yard work.

There's no one right answer, but I feel your pain and we were fortunate to be able to do something to alleviate it. I hope you're able to find some relief.

Useful (and empathetic) insights here.

I am always curious, though, when people post this *where* specifically they moved to - I can understand not wanting to share for identifiability reasons, but there are so many real benefits to the DC area (high quality schools, cultural institutions, specific technical jobs) that I’d love more specifics about what other places can still work out well.

We moved to the Portland, Maine area just before Covid and our quality of life has improved dramatically.

I grew up in the DC area and the benefits of living there are vastly overrated IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved our entire family across the country to a southern state we didn’t know anyone but found jobs in for this reason. Our life is so simple now. Just move, it’s 2026. You’re not on the Oregon trail, it’s not nearly as difficult as it sounds.

This just made me laugh out loud, thank you.

How is it simpler? Don't you have the same daily grind, but just in a state where you don't know anyone? (make breakfast, work all day, dropoff/pickup kids, make dinner, take them to their activities-albeit probably less intense ones, get ready for the next day of the same).

I'm the PP that laughed, not the one who made the original comment, although we also moved out of DC for the specific purpose of simplifying our lives. Pre-COVID we both worked out of the house (now we both work from home full-time with no plans to ever return to the office), but we had a nanny who was cheaper than our nanny in DC, we had commutes of 20 minutes each versus an hour, we built an amazing house for the same price as our older townhouse in Vienna, our kids are in an excellent private school where tuition is half the price of the school they were in before, and the pace of life is just slower here. Friends live closer, so we aren't going to birthday parties in Bethesda that take us an hour to get to, traffic isn't as bad, so we aren't white-knuckling it in the morning and evening, I could go on and on. Our kids are all in intense sports, we are all very social, we travel a lot, we have two dogs, we both work full-time jobs that are pretty demanding, but life is still so much easier than it was when we lived in DC. I honestly don't know why anyone stays if they don't have to. And yes, we both switched jobs in order to move, it's not like we just easily picked up and relocated, but it was so worth it.

How is your life different in this Shangri-La? It certainly doesn't sound simpler. Sounds like it is just cheaper.

The commutes were probably the biggest thing, not sure why you missed that point since I made it twice. We immediately got back at least an hour a day for each of us. I guess you don't think that would help make life easier? Also, life is simpler because we can afford to outsource a lot of stuff so we're not spending the weekends cleaning the house or doing yard work. I get that you're clearly just bitter, so I'll stop trying to explain any further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved our entire family across the country to a southern state we didn’t know anyone but found jobs in for this reason. Our life is so simple now. Just move, it’s 2026. You’re not on the Oregon trail, it’s not nearly as difficult as it sounds.

This just made me laugh out loud, thank you.

How is it simpler? Don't you have the same daily grind, but just in a state where you don't know anyone? (make breakfast, work all day, dropoff/pickup kids, make dinner, take them to their activities-albeit probably less intense ones, get ready for the next day of the same).

I'm the PP that laughed, not the one who made the original comment, although we also moved out of DC for the specific purpose of simplifying our lives. Pre-COVID we both worked out of the house (now we both work from home full-time with no plans to ever return to the office), but we had a nanny who was cheaper than our nanny in DC, we had commutes of 20 minutes each versus an hour, we built an amazing house for the same price as our older townhouse in Vienna, our kids are in an excellent private school where tuition is half the price of the school they were in before, and the pace of life is just slower here. Friends live closer, so we aren't going to birthday parties in Bethesda that take us an hour to get to, traffic isn't as bad, so we aren't white-knuckling it in the morning and evening, I could go on and on. Our kids are all in intense sports, we are all very social, we travel a lot, we have two dogs, we both work full-time jobs that are pretty demanding, but life is still so much easier than it was when we lived in DC. I honestly don't know why anyone stays if they don't have to. And yes, we both switched jobs in order to move, it's not like we just easily picked up and relocated, but it was so worth it.

I have all this by living in DC instead of Vienna

Ok, I'm glad that works for you. Some people don't like parking in garages that you have to drive down multiple levels or dealing with having to find street parking. Some people want a large yard. And if you have your own street-level garage and a yard then I hope you appreciate that your income is likely putting you in a different category than most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we moved out of DC and to a lower COL area. The commute (each of us drove one hour in opposite directions - me into DC and him into Fairfax) was ridiculous. The housing prices were insane. The "good" public schools weren't that great and the private schools were astronomical. I was a fed lawyer, so I'm not discounting how hard it can be to change jobs, but it was so worth it for us.

Our other friends had one of the parents quit and stay at home. They now have a different set of stressors but some things are easier (especially as kids get older and need a lot more driving around after school with sports and such).

Our other friends moved way out to the far away burbs and one of them took a job that they could do remotely so that only had a bad commute.

Our other friends left the government for private sector work that pays more so now they can outsource things like laundry and yard work.

There's no one right answer, but I feel your pain and we were fortunate to be able to do something to alleviate it. I hope you're able to find some relief.

Useful (and empathetic) insights here.

I am always curious, though, when people post this *where* specifically they moved to - I can understand not wanting to share for identifiability reasons, but there are so many real benefits to the DC area (high quality schools, cultural institutions, specific technical jobs) that I’d love more specifics about what other places can still work out well.

I'll PP and I'll tell you - we moved to Norfolk, Virginia. We live in a very nice neighborhood on the water and our kids go to Norfolk Academy. We have a yacht and country club not too far from our house, we have a boat, we custom built a large house so we can easily entertain and have guests stay with us, we have an amazing neighborhood friend group, a great school community (those two things overlap, most of the kids in our neighborhood attend NA), and we're very happy here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we moved out of DC and to a lower COL area. The commute (each of us drove one hour in opposite directions - me into DC and him into Fairfax) was ridiculous. The housing prices were insane. The "good" public schools weren't that great and the private schools were astronomical. I was a fed lawyer, so I'm not discounting how hard it can be to change jobs, but it was so worth it for us.

Our other friends had one of the parents quit and stay at home. They now have a different set of stressors but some things are easier (especially as kids get older and need a lot more driving around after school with sports and such).

Our other friends moved way out to the far away burbs and one of them took a job that they could do remotely so that only had a bad commute.

Our other friends left the government for private sector work that pays more so now they can outsource things like laundry and yard work.

There's no one right answer, but I feel your pain and we were fortunate to be able to do something to alleviate it. I hope you're able to find some relief.

Useful (and empathetic) insights here.

I am always curious, though, when people post this *where* specifically they moved to - I can understand not wanting to share for identifiability reasons, but there are so many real benefits to the DC area (high quality schools, cultural institutions, specific technical jobs) that I’d love more specifics about what other places can still work out well.

We moved to the Portland, Maine area just before Covid and our quality of life has improved dramatically.

I grew up in the DC area and the benefits of living there are vastly overrated IMO.

🍪?