How are you preparing your DD to protect herself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 52 year old mom of two daughters 18 and 20.

None of us have ever had to deal with sexual harassment. Calm down.

Same.

Same here. I think it makes 5 of us on this thread so far. I was beautiful in my teens/20s/30s and always dated very attractive, successful men (and then married one --a physician). But I was never really harassed--not even really cat called.

I don't really exude sexuality or vulnerability. I've never dressed provocatively or even very femininely. I'm not saying that women should change their dress to avoid harassment but I've always wondered why I never got harassed why other women say they were continually and I assume it must have had something to do with my clothing. I otherwise don't know.

I think people have different tolerances and perceptions of "sexual harassment."
For example, some people with heightened sensitivities today can find traditional/innocent flirtations "harassing." Some are fine with those same "flirtations" - if it's someone they like/are interested in; but consider it harassment if it comes from someone they don't want the attention from.
Then there are some who probably don't consider one construction worker whistling as they walk by a construction site one time to be harassment, whereas another woman would. Or being leered at - harassment? or just creepy?

Given that 1 in 5 women have been raped and it is hard to judge the age of others, not to mention a large portion of women do *not* appreciate catcalling, the appropriate amount of catcalling is zero.

Bring violently and forcefully raped is rare. Majority of these so called rape incidents are just regret or being too intoxicated to properly consent. While not excusable, this is avoidable. You should never put yourself in a situation where you are physically unable to consent to sex, or driving or whom you are with or the events going on around you.

You make me sick to my stomach. I am not a feminist at all. I am pretty culturally conservative. *HOWEVER* even I know most rape allegations are NOT false. A good portion are he said/she said situations that cannot be substantiated either way, however, that absolutely does not mean they are false, or "just" regret, or she was drunk so its not "real" rape, whatever the hell that means. True false rape allegations are single digits of the complaints. There is no evidence at all rape has a higher rate of false reports than any other crime. Quite the opposite, victims know they will immediately be judged and gaslighted (because of people like you) and 80% of rapes are not reported at all. There is no requirement that unwanted sexual contact include violence to be "rea" sexual assault. Even being totally unconscious and not having a memory of it, is that woman "entitled" to not have to entertain unwanted sexual advances after going through that experience? According to you? Why the f--- do women have to justify their preferences? Keep your d--- to yourself. Go on a dating website or hire an escort. You have no right to cold call peddle your d--- to every woman in sight. Just stop.

+1
I cant stand this male attitude that it's only rape because the woman at some point decided it was. Rape is rape. Men know what they're doing, that's why they often drug their victims. Easier to rape, easier to discredit the woman, easier to get away with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t considering one experience “harassment”

Be is from cat calling in a street, a random comment at a party, a homeless man exposing himself on the street. Perhaps it meets the definition, but this shouldn’t be traumatizing. Just move on.

Harassment is if the same person repeatedly gives you unwanted attention after you have explicitly told them to stop.

I think this is interesting. I used to really think this and believe this and didn't really even register all the small things men did. The guy at work who blatantly looks you up and down in a lewd manner and makes a comment. The guy at work who puts both his hands on your shoulders while talking to you "make a point". The guy at the regular coffee shop you go to who comes out from the back to stare every time you are in line so eventually you just go to another coffee shop. Unwelcome looks, touches, comments. All of these are actual examples and I have so many more. I'm sure we all do. I had a guy witness one of these things and he acknowledged it later and asked me if I was okay. I was stunned. We all just harden ourselves to it and don't even speak up or think twice about it. It's sad really.

We have been conditioned to accept a certain amount of sexual harassment as just part of life. That’s why some of these women say they’ve never been harassed. They’ve overlooked things because “boys willl be boys,” and it’s just something everyone lives with. Just this very morning, my teenaged dd told me that when she was in 6th grade, she complained to the male gym teacher that a couple male classmates were saying they wanted to touch her tits. He told her that boys are just going to say stupid things and it’s only a problem if they actually touch you. This was 5 years ago, post Me Too.

Yep agree. I call BS on the “never experienced “ posters. I have no doubt they believe it and maybe a rare minority really have not. But that is in large part bc we are conditioned to accept the smaller slights, harassment, and disrespect.

I don't think it's that we accept these things. We just don't actually call every offender out every time. Many of the incidents people are talking about in this post are one-time occurrences from strangers in bars, walking down the street, on a bus or train, etc. I'm not going to get into a confrontation with these guys and I would not encourage my daughter to, either. These days, yes, it would be great if more of the incidents are called out when it's feasible and safe to do so -- like the example a previous commenter gave about the bus masturbator and the woman taking the young girl to a seat by the driver and telling the driver what was going on.

It's not that we're "accepting" the minor slights and disrespect - we endure them and move on. Continual offenses in the same environment or by the same individual are different and are absolutely more likely to be called out and not tolerated.

You say you’re not “accepting” being disrespected on the basis of your sex; you’re just enduring it and moving on without calling it out. That IS “accepting” it. You even admit that you don’t call these things out because it wouldn’t be safe to get into a confrontation with men who do it. That’s the conditioning that causes you to not to stand up for yourself. You know these men are doing it because they have a certain power over women. They’re bigger, they’re stronger, they’re more aggressive, and they’re not the least bit afraid of getting into a confrontation with you. You know that if you call them out, the situation may escalate and you might find yourself in actual physical danger.

The men who harass random women passing them on the street usually pay no price for that behavior, so it’s not discouraged. The women who are harassed know the men could potentially be real menaces, so they endure and endure and endure it some more, while rationalizing that that wasn’t really harassment because each of the guys only did it once or it was brief or perhaps their clothing or physical appearance provoked the men to it or it wasn’t that bad because it wasn’t scary (even though speaking up was deemed too dangerous for the situation).

"Putting up with" does not mean one "accepts" or "approves" of it.
I'm not walking by construction sites and getting cat-called regularly. So, no, I'm not going to stop in such a situation and say, "Please dont make lewd comments. You are making me feel uncomfortable." They already KNOW that. Why do you think they're doing it in the first place? Their purpose is intimidation! That and exhibiting bravado in front of their male coworkers/buddies. Their fellow male colleagues or pals are the ones who should be "unaccepting" and chastise them. Or do you expect every woman to call the police every time and ....tell them what? "They said filthy things to me?" That's hardly illegal. Responding to these idiots merely invites more condescending comments and insults. I'd rather keep moving along on my way than put up with more snide/demeaning/chauvinistic/etc comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t considering one experience “harassment”

Be is from cat calling in a street, a random comment at a party, a homeless man exposing himself on the street. Perhaps it meets the definition, but this shouldn’t be traumatizing. Just move on.

Harassment is if the same person repeatedly gives you unwanted attention after you have explicitly told them to stop.

I think this is interesting. I used to really think this and believe this and didn't really even register all the small things men did. The guy at work who blatantly looks you up and down in a lewd manner and makes a comment. The guy at work who puts both his hands on your shoulders while talking to you "make a point". The guy at the regular coffee shop you go to who comes out from the back to stare every time you are in line so eventually you just go to another coffee shop. Unwelcome looks, touches, comments. All of these are actual examples and I have so many more. I'm sure we all do. I had a guy witness one of these things and he acknowledged it later and asked me if I was okay. I was stunned. We all just harden ourselves to it and don't even speak up or think twice about it. It's sad really.

We have been conditioned to accept a certain amount of sexual harassment as just part of life. That’s why some of these women say they’ve never been harassed. They’ve overlooked things because “boys willl be boys,” and it’s just something everyone lives with. Just this very morning, my teenaged dd told me that when she was in 6th grade, she complained to the male gym teacher that a couple male classmates were saying they wanted to touch her tits. He told her that boys are just going to say stupid things and it’s only a problem if they actually touch you. This was 5 years ago, post Me Too.

Yep agree. I call BS on the “never experienced “ posters. I have no doubt they believe it and maybe a rare minority really have not. But that is in large part bc we are conditioned to accept the smaller slights, harassment, and disrespect.

I don't think it's that we accept these things. We just don't actually call every offender out every time. Many of the incidents people are talking about in this post are one-time occurrences from strangers in bars, walking down the street, on a bus or train, etc. I'm not going to get into a confrontation with these guys and I would not encourage my daughter to, either. These days, yes, it would be great if more of the incidents are called out when it's feasible and safe to do so -- like the example a previous commenter gave about the bus masturbator and the woman taking the young girl to a seat by the driver and telling the driver what was going on.

It's not that we're "accepting" the minor slights and disrespect - we endure them and move on. Continual offenses in the same environment or by the same individual are different and are absolutely more likely to be called out and not tolerated.

You say you’re not “accepting” being disrespected on the basis of your sex; you’re just enduring it and moving on without calling it out. That IS “accepting” it. You even admit that you don’t call these things out because it wouldn’t be safe to get into a confrontation with men who do it. That’s the conditioning that causes you to not to stand up for yourself. You know these men are doing it because they have a certain power over women. They’re bigger, they’re stronger, they’re more aggressive, and they’re not the least bit afraid of getting into a confrontation with you. You know that if you call them out, the situation may escalate and you might find yourself in actual physical danger.

The men who harass random women passing them on the street usually pay no price for that behavior, so it’s not discouraged. The women who are harassed know the men could potentially be real menaces, so they endure and endure and endure it some more, while rationalizing that that wasn’t really harassment because each of the guys only did it once or it was brief or perhaps their clothing or physical appearance provoked the men to it or it wasn’t that bad because it wasn’t scary (even though speaking up was deemed too dangerous for the situation).

"Putting up with" does not mean one "accepts" or "approves" of it.
I'm not walking by construction sites and getting cat-called regularly. So, no, I'm not going to stop in such a situation and say, "Please dont make lewd comments. You are making me feel uncomfortable." They already KNOW that. Why do you think they're doing it in the first place? Their purpose is intimidation! That and exhibiting bravado in front of their male coworkers/buddies. Their fellow male colleagues or pals are the ones who should be "unaccepting" and chastise them. Or do you expect every woman to call the police every time and ....tell them what? "They said filthy things to me?" That's hardly illegal. Responding to these idiots merely invites more condescending comments and insults. I'd rather keep moving along on my way than put up with more snide/demeaning/chauvinistic/etc comments.

PP -- adding, these individual instances don't solve anything and are not the way to address the problem. There are other ways - like teaching both girls and boys what is acceptable and what is not; society as a whole taking women and their accusations seriously, not putting up with men protecting each other; etc. One woman replying to these "men" when they make a comment does NOTHING. Only societal values changing and insisting on appropriate behavior will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t considering one experience “harassment”

Be is from cat calling in a street, a random comment at a party, a homeless man exposing himself on the street. Perhaps it meets the definition, but this shouldn’t be traumatizing. Just move on.

Harassment is if the same person repeatedly gives you unwanted attention after you have explicitly told them to stop.

I think this is interesting. I used to really think this and believe this and didn't really even register all the small things men did. The guy at work who blatantly looks you up and down in a lewd manner and makes a comment. The guy at work who puts both his hands on your shoulders while talking to you "make a point". The guy at the regular coffee shop you go to who comes out from the back to stare every time you are in line so eventually you just go to another coffee shop. Unwelcome looks, touches, comments. All of these are actual examples and I have so many more. I'm sure we all do. I had a guy witness one of these things and he acknowledged it later and asked me if I was okay. I was stunned. We all just harden ourselves to it and don't even speak up or think twice about it. It's sad really.

We have been conditioned to accept a certain amount of sexual harassment as just part of life. That’s why some of these women say they’ve never been harassed. They’ve overlooked things because “boys willl be boys,” and it’s just something everyone lives with. Just this very morning, my teenaged dd told me that when she was in 6th grade, she complained to the male gym teacher that a couple male classmates were saying they wanted to touch her tits. He told her that boys are just going to say stupid things and it’s only a problem if they actually touch you. This was 5 years ago, post Me Too.

Yep agree. I call BS on the “never experienced “ posters. I have no doubt they believe it and maybe a rare minority really have not. But that is in large part bc we are conditioned to accept the smaller slights, harassment, and disrespect.

I don't think it's that we accept these things. We just don't actually call every offender out every time. Many of the incidents people are talking about in this post are one-time occurrences from strangers in bars, walking down the street, on a bus or train, etc. I'm not going to get into a confrontation with these guys and I would not encourage my daughter to, either. These days, yes, it would be great if more of the incidents are called out when it's feasible and safe to do so -- like the example a previous commenter gave about the bus masturbator and the woman taking the young girl to a seat by the driver and telling the driver what was going on.

It's not that we're "accepting" the minor slights and disrespect - we endure them and move on. Continual offenses in the same environment or by the same individual are different and are absolutely more likely to be called out and not tolerated.

You say you’re not “accepting” being disrespected on the basis of your sex; you’re just enduring it and moving on without calling it out. That IS “accepting” it. You even admit that you don’t call these things out because it wouldn’t be safe to get into a confrontation with men who do it. That’s the conditioning that causes you to not to stand up for yourself. You know these men are doing it because they have a certain power over women. They’re bigger, they’re stronger, they’re more aggressive, and they’re not the least bit afraid of getting into a confrontation with you. You know that if you call them out, the situation may escalate and you might find yourself in actual physical danger.

The men who harass random women passing them on the street usually pay no price for that behavior, so it’s not discouraged. The women who are harassed know the men could potentially be real menaces, so they endure and endure and endure it some more, while rationalizing that that wasn’t really harassment because each of the guys only did it once or it was brief or perhaps their clothing or physical appearance provoked the men to it or it wasn’t that bad because it wasn’t scary (even though speaking up was deemed too dangerous for the situation).

"Putting up with" does not mean one "accepts" or "approves" of it.
I'm not walking by construction sites and getting cat-called regularly. So, no, I'm not going to stop in such a situation and say, "Please dont make lewd comments. You are making me feel uncomfortable." They already KNOW that. Why do you think they're doing it in the first place? Their purpose is intimidation! That and exhibiting bravado in front of their male coworkers/buddies. Their fellow male colleagues or pals are the ones who should be "unaccepting" and chastise them. Or do you expect every woman to call the police every time and ....tell them what? "They said filthy things to me?" That's hardly illegal. Responding to these idiots merely invites more condescending comments and insults. I'd rather keep moving along on my way than put up with more snide/demeaning/chauvinistic/etc comments.

You’re saying all the exact same things that you claim to disagree with, just using different words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like so many of us have lived with serial harassment as young women, but I just hate that this is ahead of her, and soon, at 14. I remember so many unwanted sexual advances throughout high school, college and most especially my first job. Just feels relentless.

I've been teaching situational awareness early on and plan for her to take a self defense course. But I'm struggling with how to teach about the vigilance needed without making all men seem predatory. When I look back on that period of time though, so many of them were.

I tell my daughters to stay away from men who say "grab them by the Pu$$y", unfortunately NO ONE listened!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like so many of us have lived with serial harassment as young women, but I just hate that this is ahead of her, and soon, at 14. I remember so many unwanted sexual advances throughout high school, college and most especially my first job. Just feels relentless.

I've been teaching situational awareness early on and plan for her to take a self defense course. But I'm struggling with how to teach about the vigilance needed without making all men seem predatory. When I look back on that period of time though, so many of them were.

I tell my daughters to stay away from men who say "grab them by the Pu$$y", unfortunately NO ONE listened!

What about men who refer to areas where Black people simply live as an “urban jungle” ??

Are you warning her to stay away from those men too? - because Biden said that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 52 year old mom of two daughters 18 and 20.

None of us have ever had to deal with sexual harassment. Calm down.

Same.

Same here. I think it makes 5 of us on this thread so far. I was beautiful in my teens/20s/30s and always dated very attractive, successful men (and then married one --a physician). But I was never really harassed--not even really cat called.

I don't really exude sexuality or vulnerability. I've never dressed provocatively or even very femininely. I'm not saying that women should change their dress to avoid harassment but I've always wondered why I never got harassed why other women say they were continually and I assume it must have had something to do with my clothing. I otherwise don't know.

One theory I have is some of it is whether you stand out in some way. Are you average height, average hair color, average build etc? Dress just fitting in? I have a friend like this and we would talk about it and no one really bothered her. She just blended in.

I am tall and blond and got harassed a bunch. I think I both stuck out and was memorable for people who might see me repeatedly during regular day to day life.

Also have you lived in a city. I challenge a decently attractive and young woman to walk 20 blocks in a real city daily for a month and not have someone call out to them or something happen.

+1 - and you don't even have to be young. I am 55, wear normal jeans and a t-shirt, and although I'm officially the top of overweight, almost obese BMI, I am curvy and have a booty. When I was younger (MS & HS), men felt free to touch me; once a stranger on an urban street actually picked me up and physically started carrying me away - which was frightening! Still today I get men (strangers) saying extremely lewd things to me on the metro or street. These are people I didn't have any interaction with at all. In my 30s, on an airplane during a business trip, a fellow passenger (stranger) was so drunk and saying such degrading sexually provocative stuff to me that the air crew locked him in the bathroom until landing. I've also been sexually harassed at work in at least 2 different jobs. It's exhausting. I don't consider myself pretty, definitely not in the classic way. I am in no way acting like I want or would welcome this. I do not stand out - brown hair, brown eyes, no special look. It's exhausting. It's crazy what men think they have permission to do to any woman.

I think I thought my DD was of a different generation & men her age would know better but that hasn't been her experience at all. The best way I can prepare her is to talk about what happened to me, and constantly say that sexual harassment and assault are illegal and educate her about women's history, her legal rights and teach her about consent and encourage her to say no without shame. She knows she can always come to me about anything without worrying about being blamed. As a result, the things she has shared have been eye-opening (not in a good way) as to what women and young girls still endure today. I thought men had evolved to be better than this. Apparently not.

I can only imagine it is going to get worse post-Dobbs and under Trump as parts of society try to push women back to traditional gender roles and take away their rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t considering one experience “harassment”

Be is from cat calling in a street, a random comment at a party, a homeless man exposing himself on the street. Perhaps it meets the definition, but this shouldn’t be traumatizing. Just move on.

Harassment is if the same person repeatedly gives you unwanted attention after you have explicitly told them to stop.

I think this is interesting. I used to really think this and believe this and didn't really even register all the small things men did. The guy at work who blatantly looks you up and down in a lewd manner and makes a comment. The guy at work who puts both his hands on your shoulders while talking to you "make a point". The guy at the regular coffee shop you go to who comes out from the back to stare every time you are in line so eventually you just go to another coffee shop. Unwelcome looks, touches, comments. All of these are actual examples and I have so many more. I'm sure we all do. I had a guy witness one of these things and he acknowledged it later and asked me if I was okay. I was stunned. We all just harden ourselves to it and don't even speak up or think twice about it. It's sad really.

We have been conditioned to accept a certain amount of sexual harassment as just part of life. That’s why some of these women say they’ve never been harassed. They’ve overlooked things because “boys willl be boys,” and it’s just something everyone lives with. Just this very morning, my teenaged dd told me that when she was in 6th grade, she complained to the male gym teacher that a couple male classmates were saying they wanted to touch her tits. He told her that boys are just going to say stupid things and it’s only a problem if they actually touch you. This was 5 years ago, post Me Too.

Yep agree. I call BS on the “never experienced “ posters. I have no doubt they believe it and maybe a rare minority really have not. But that is in large part bc we are conditioned to accept the smaller slights, harassment, and disrespect.

I don't think it's that we accept these things. We just don't actually call every offender out every time. Many of the incidents people are talking about in this post are one-time occurrences from strangers in bars, walking down the street, on a bus or train, etc. I'm not going to get into a confrontation with these guys and I would not encourage my daughter to, either. These days, yes, it would be great if more of the incidents are called out when it's feasible and safe to do so -- like the example a previous commenter gave about the bus masturbator and the woman taking the young girl to a seat by the driver and telling the driver what was going on.

It's not that we're "accepting" the minor slights and disrespect - we endure them and move on. Continual offenses in the same environment or by the same individual are different and are absolutely more likely to be called out and not tolerated.

You say you’re not “accepting” being disrespected on the basis of your sex; you’re just enduring it and moving on without calling it out. That IS “accepting” it. You even admit that you don’t call these things out because it wouldn’t be safe to get into a confrontation with men who do it. That’s the conditioning that causes you to not to stand up for yourself. You know these men are doing it because they have a certain power over women. They’re bigger, they’re stronger, they’re more aggressive, and they’re not the least bit afraid of getting into a confrontation with you. You know that if you call them out, the situation may escalate and you might find yourself in actual physical danger.

The men who harass random women passing them on the street usually pay no price for that behavior, so it’s not discouraged. The women who are harassed know the men could potentially be real menaces, so they endure and endure and endure it some more, while rationalizing that that wasn’t really harassment because each of the guys only did it once or it was brief or perhaps their clothing or physical appearance provoked the men to it or it wasn’t that bad because it wasn’t scary (even though speaking up was deemed too dangerous for the situation).

"Putting up with" does not mean one "accepts" or "approves" of it.
I'm not walking by construction sites and getting cat-called regularly. So, no, I'm not going to stop in such a situation and say, "Please dont make lewd comments. You are making me feel uncomfortable." They already KNOW that. Why do you think they're doing it in the first place? Their purpose is intimidation! That and exhibiting bravado in front of their male coworkers/buddies. Their fellow male colleagues or pals are the ones who should be "unaccepting" and chastise them. Or do you expect every woman to call the police every time and ....tell them what? "They said filthy things to me?" That's hardly illegal. Responding to these idiots merely invites more condescending comments and insults. I'd rather keep moving along on my way than put up with more snide/demeaning/chauvinistic/etc comments.

You’re saying all the exact same things that you claim to disagree with, just using different words.

"That's hardly illegal" -- that right there sums up our problem. Women have been placed entirely outside of the legal regime and the protection it offers -- date rape, stranger rape, marital rape, up skirting photos, touching a woman, domestic abuse, sexual harassment at work -- all of these historically and in many instances currently either were legal, weren't prosecuted culturally, had no resources devoted to prosecution. And that's not to mention the other ways that women are economically and socially outside the law -- women paying extra for maternity insurance, not getting social security credit for time spent raising kids, no system for affordable childcare, no or little maternity leave, denied access to reproductive health, etc.

The problem is that the legal system is run largely by men and either is ignorant of women's needs or deliberately ignores them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 52 year old mom of two daughters 18 and 20.

None of us have ever had to deal with sexual harassment. Calm down.

Same.

Same here. I think it makes 5 of us on this thread so far. I was beautiful in my teens/20s/30s and always dated very attractive, successful men (and then married one --a physician). But I was never really harassed--not even really cat called.

I don't really exude sexuality or vulnerability. I've never dressed provocatively or even very femininely. I'm not saying that women should change their dress to avoid harassment but I've always wondered why I never got harassed why other women say they were continually and I assume it must have had something to do with my clothing. I otherwise don't know.

One theory I have is some of it is whether you stand out in some way. Are you average height, average hair color, average build etc? Dress just fitting in? I have a friend like this and we would talk about it and no one really bothered her. She just blended in.

I am tall and blond and got harassed a bunch. I think I both stuck out and was memorable for people who might see me repeatedly during regular day to day life.

Also have you lived in a city. I challenge a decently attractive and young woman to walk 20 blocks in a real city daily for a month and not have someone call out to them or something happen.

+1 - and you don't even have to be young. I am 55, wear normal jeans and a t-shirt, and although I'm officially the top of overweight, almost obese BMI, I am curvy and have a booty. When I was younger (MS & HS), men felt free to touch me; once a stranger on an urban street actually picked me up and physically started carrying me away - which was frightening! Still today I get men (strangers) saying extremely lewd things to me on the metro or street. These are people I didn't have any interaction with at all. In my 30s, on an airplane during a business trip, a fellow passenger (stranger) was so drunk and saying such degrading sexually provocative stuff to me that the air crew locked him in the bathroom until landing. I've also been sexually harassed at work in at least 2 different jobs. It's exhausting. I don't consider myself pretty, definitely not in the classic way. I am in no way acting like I want or would welcome this. I do not stand out - brown hair, brown eyes, no special look. It's exhausting. It's crazy what men think they have permission to do to any woman.

I think I thought my DD was of a different generation & men her age would know better but that hasn't been her experience at all. The best way I can prepare her is to talk about what happened to me, and constantly say that sexual harassment and assault are illegal and educate her about women's history, her legal rights and teach her about consent and encourage her to say no without shame. She knows she can always come to me about anything without worrying about being blamed. As a result, the things she has shared have been eye-opening (not in a good way) as to what women and young girls still endure today. I thought men had evolved to be better than this. Apparently not.

I can only imagine it is going to get worse post-Dobbs and under Trump as parts of society try to push women back to traditional gender roles and take away their rights.

I had a roommate with very large breasts. She said her mom took her to a dentist when she was 12. The dentist office happened to be next to a planned parenthood. The protesters assumed she was there for an abortion and harassed her on the way in. She said it was very scary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t considering one experience “harassment”

Be is from cat calling in a street, a random comment at a party, a homeless man exposing himself on the street. Perhaps it meets the definition, but this shouldn’t be traumatizing. Just move on.

Harassment is if the same person repeatedly gives you unwanted attention after you have explicitly told them to stop.

I think this is interesting. I used to really think this and believe this and didn't really even register all the small things men did. The guy at work who blatantly looks you up and down in a lewd manner and makes a comment. The guy at work who puts both his hands on your shoulders while talking to you "make a point". The guy at the regular coffee shop you go to who comes out from the back to stare every time you are in line so eventually you just go to another coffee shop. Unwelcome looks, touches, comments. All of these are actual examples and I have so many more. I'm sure we all do. I had a guy witness one of these things and he acknowledged it later and asked me if I was okay. I was stunned. We all just harden ourselves to it and don't even speak up or think twice about it. It's sad really.

We have been conditioned to accept a certain amount of sexual harassment as just part of life. That’s why some of these women say they’ve never been harassed. They’ve overlooked things because “boys willl be boys,” and it’s just something everyone lives with. Just this very morning, my teenaged dd told me that when she was in 6th grade, she complained to the male gym teacher that a couple male classmates were saying they wanted to touch her tits. He told her that boys are just going to say stupid things and it’s only a problem if they actually touch you. This was 5 years ago, post Me Too.

Yep agree. I call BS on the “never experienced “ posters. I have no doubt they believe it and maybe a rare minority really have not. But that is in large part bc we are conditioned to accept the smaller slights, harassment, and disrespect.

I don't think it's that we accept these things. We just don't actually call every offender out every time. Many of the incidents people are talking about in this post are one-time occurrences from strangers in bars, walking down the street, on a bus or train, etc. I'm not going to get into a confrontation with these guys and I would not encourage my daughter to, either. These days, yes, it would be great if more of the incidents are called out when it's feasible and safe to do so -- like the example a previous commenter gave about the bus masturbator and the woman taking the young girl to a seat by the driver and telling the driver what was going on.

It's not that we're "accepting" the minor slights and disrespect - we endure them and move on. Continual offenses in the same environment or by the same individual are different and are absolutely more likely to be called out and not tolerated.

You say you’re not “accepting” being disrespected on the basis of your sex; you’re just enduring it and moving on without calling it out. That IS “accepting” it. You even admit that you don’t call these things out because it wouldn’t be safe to get into a confrontation with men who do it. That’s the conditioning that causes you to not to stand up for yourself. You know these men are doing it because they have a certain power over women. They’re bigger, they’re stronger, they’re more aggressive, and they’re not the least bit afraid of getting into a confrontation with you. You know that if you call them out, the situation may escalate and you might find yourself in actual physical danger.

The men who harass random women passing them on the street usually pay no price for that behavior, so it’s not discouraged. The women who are harassed know the men could potentially be real menaces, so they endure and endure and endure it some more, while rationalizing that that wasn’t really harassment because each of the guys only did it once or it was brief or perhaps their clothing or physical appearance provoked the men to it or it wasn’t that bad because it wasn’t scary (even though speaking up was deemed too dangerous for the situation).

"Putting up with" does not mean one "accepts" or "approves" of it.
I'm not walking by construction sites and getting cat-called regularly. So, no, I'm not going to stop in such a situation and say, "Please dont make lewd comments. You are making me feel uncomfortable." They already KNOW that. Why do you think they're doing it in the first place? Their purpose is intimidation! That and exhibiting bravado in front of their male coworkers/buddies. Their fellow male colleagues or pals are the ones who should be "unaccepting" and chastise them. Or do you expect every woman to call the police every time and ....tell them what? "They said filthy things to me?" That's hardly illegal. Responding to these idiots merely invites more condescending comments and insults. I'd rather keep moving along on my way than put up with more snide/demeaning/chauvinistic/etc comments.

You’re saying all the exact same things that you claim to disagree with, just using different words.

"That's hardly illegal" -- that right there sums up our problem. Women have been placed entirely outside of the legal regime and the protection it offers -- date rape, stranger rape, marital rape, up skirting photos, touching a woman, domestic abuse, sexual harassment at work -- all of these historically and in many instances currently either were legal, weren't prosecuted culturally, had no resources devoted to prosecution. And that's not to mention the other ways that women are economically and socially outside the law -- women paying extra for maternity insurance, not getting social security credit for time spent raising kids, no system for affordable childcare, no or little maternity leave, denied access to reproductive health, etc.

The problem is that the legal system is run largely by men and either is ignorant of women's needs or deliberately ignores them.

It's run by males and even worse, self hating females. The best example are female OBs who commit acts of obstetric violence against pregnant women. Plenty examples in this thread of females defending the male entitlement to peddle their d--- to rape victims, underaged girls, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP above and I forgot to add that I was sexually assaulted multiple times in my late teens and 20s and didn’t even fully understand it was sexual assault until the last time (when I pressed charges and was ready to testify until last-minute plea deal). That’s why I have started so early with DD.

I’m sorry this happened to you.
I’m not really understanding a sexual assault that you “didn’t really understand was sexual assault” until it happened to you several times.
Obviously that sounds horrific. Very confusing though for the guy as well if he also didn’t realize that it was against your will? Just trying to figure out how that is communicated after the fact so that he is also aware that you now realize it was sexual assault.

I am not PP but a lot of people think it isn't assault if it isn't violent rape. Too drunk to consent, froze up, groped but no penetration - lots of people wrongly think these are not assault.

How is the guy going to know that you don’t want it if you don’t say no.

Unless she clearly says yes, it should not proceed. PERIOD. My friends with boys are teaching their boys this.

If they are drinking to the point of drunk and unable to consent it shoudl not go forward.

Boys aren't animals. It's time we stop treating them like they are not capable of knowing when there is consent.

It’s well past time to stop teaching girls that they can’t use their words. Stop infantilizing women and girls. Don’t teach your daughters that her safety is anyone’s responsibility but her own, for starters.

Nope. If she is drunk or roofied or scared, it's not OK to have sex with her. Yes it would be better if she hadn't got in that situation but the partner who proceeds without consent is responsible for that choice he is making. Stop acting like men can't help themselves. And stop acting like the goal should be anything except enthusiastic participation.

No one is saying it’s okay to rape someone so come off it.

You’re talking about teaching your daughter that it’s not her fault after she’s been victimized. Meanwhile, I’ll continue teaching my daughter how to drastically reduce her chances of being victimized in the first place.

It’s magical thinking to imagine that your daughter will someday live in world where no man will sexually assault her if she gets blackout drunk at a random party, because finally someone taught all those darn rapists that they’re not allowed to do that!

Seriously, do you hear yourself?

You responded to a thread about someone's actual assault, and about how a man could possibly know a woman didn't consent. Your response was "stop teaching girls that they can't use their words." Do you hear yourself?

The post directly above yours was about someone too drunk to consent. Is that ideal? No. Should you teach your DD not to get drunk like that, especially with people she doesn't know or trust? Of course, that's a great thing to teach. AND ALSO teach boys, and expect boys, not to have sex with someone who is too drunk to consent, regardless of whether she says no. Boys absolutely have responsibility for what they do with their own bodies and whether they choose to have sex with someone who didn't clearly consent.

Stop.Being.Stupid.

You can’t control what other people do or don’t teach their sons. Just like you can’t control whether or not your son gives a sh!t. Worry about teaching your daughter to protect herself and not to rely on the kindness of strangers. The only person she can count on to watch out for her safety is herself.

Stop.Infantilizing.Girls.

You are revolting and offensive. It is not "infantilizing" girls to expect boys to respect women. To gain consent. To learn to accept no. I'm all for teaching girls about risks but that has been going on for generations. It's time for BOYS and parents of boys to play a role here. Failing to do that is infantilizing boys, if anything.

Gain consent from whom and what does that look like exactly? The two teens, which I assume we’re talking about, are hanging out and they like each other.

Are we talking about the boy asking “do I have your consent?” every step of the way? And then the girl saying back “yes, do i have your consent?” And so on?

This isn’t any normal interaction. This must be the anxious generation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP above and I forgot to add that I was sexually assaulted multiple times in my late teens and 20s and didn’t even fully understand it was sexual assault until the last time (when I pressed charges and was ready to testify until last-minute plea deal). That’s why I have started so early with DD.

I’m sorry this happened to you.
I’m not really understanding a sexual assault that you “didn’t really understand was sexual assault” until it happened to you several times.
Obviously that sounds horrific. Very confusing though for the guy as well if he also didn’t realize that it was against your will? Just trying to figure out how that is communicated after the fact so that he is also aware that you now realize it was sexual assault.

I am not PP but a lot of people think it isn't assault if it isn't violent rape. Too drunk to consent, froze up, groped but no penetration - lots of people wrongly think these are not assault.

How is the guy going to know that you don’t want it if you don’t say no.

Unless she clearly says yes, it should not proceed. PERIOD. My friends with boys are teaching their boys this.

If they are drinking to the point of drunk and unable to consent it shoudl not go forward.

Boys aren't animals. It's time we stop treating them like they are not capable of knowing when there is consent.

It’s well past time to stop teaching girls that they can’t use their words. Stop infantilizing women and girls. Don’t teach your daughters that her safety is anyone’s responsibility but her own, for starters.

Nope. If she is drunk or roofied or scared, it's not OK to have sex with her. Yes it would be better if she hadn't got in that situation but the partner who proceeds without consent is responsible for that choice he is making. Stop acting like men can't help themselves. And stop acting like the goal should be anything except enthusiastic participation.

No one is saying it’s okay to rape someone so come off it.

You’re talking about teaching your daughter that it’s not her fault after she’s been victimized. Meanwhile, I’ll continue teaching my daughter how to drastically reduce her chances of being victimized in the first place.

It’s magical thinking to imagine that your daughter will someday live in world where no man will sexually assault her if she gets blackout drunk at a random party, because finally someone taught all those darn rapists that they’re not allowed to do that!

Seriously, do you hear yourself?

You responded to a thread about someone's actual assault, and about how a man could possibly know a woman didn't consent. Your response was "stop teaching girls that they can't use their words." Do you hear yourself?

The post directly above yours was about someone too drunk to consent. Is that ideal? No. Should you teach your DD not to get drunk like that, especially with people she doesn't know or trust? Of course, that's a great thing to teach. AND ALSO teach boys, and expect boys, not to have sex with someone who is too drunk to consent, regardless of whether she says no. Boys absolutely have responsibility for what they do with their own bodies and whether they choose to have sex with someone who didn't clearly consent.

Stop.Being.Stupid.

You can’t control what other people do or don’t teach their sons. Just like you can’t control whether or not your son gives a sh!t. Worry about teaching your daughter to protect herself and not to rely on the kindness of strangers. The only person she can count on to watch out for her safety is herself.

Stop.Infantilizing.Girls.

You are revolting and offensive. It is not "infantilizing" girls to expect boys to respect women. To gain consent. To learn to accept no. I'm all for teaching girls about risks but that has been going on for generations. It's time for BOYS and parents of boys to play a role here. Failing to do that is infantilizing boys, if anything.

Gain consent from whom and what does that look like exactly? The two teens, which I assume we’re talking about, are hanging out and they like each other.

Are we talking about the boy asking “do I have your consent?” every step of the way? And then the girl saying back “yes, do i have your consent?” And so on?

This isn’t any normal interaction. This must be the anxious generation.

+1

These moms are out of their minds. I challenge them to think about how their own sexual interactions go with their partners (if they’re still even having sex, which I doubt).

Do their husband get their explicit, verbal, enthusiastic consent when they kiss them goodbye in the morning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP above and I forgot to add that I was sexually assaulted multiple times in my late teens and 20s and didn’t even fully understand it was sexual assault until the last time (when I pressed charges and was ready to testify until last-minute plea deal). That’s why I have started so early with DD.

I’m sorry this happened to you.
I’m not really understanding a sexual assault that you “didn’t really understand was sexual assault” until it happened to you several times.
Obviously that sounds horrific. Very confusing though for the guy as well if he also didn’t realize that it was against your will? Just trying to figure out how that is communicated after the fact so that he is also aware that you now realize it was sexual assault.

I am not PP but a lot of people think it isn't assault if it isn't violent rape. Too drunk to consent, froze up, groped but no penetration - lots of people wrongly think these are not assault.

How is the guy going to know that you don’t want it if you don’t say no.

Unless she clearly says yes, it should not proceed. PERIOD. My friends with boys are teaching their boys this.

If they are drinking to the point of drunk and unable to consent it shoudl not go forward.

Boys aren't animals. It's time we stop treating them like they are not capable of knowing when there is consent.

It’s well past time to stop teaching girls that they can’t use their words. Stop infantilizing women and girls. Don’t teach your daughters that her safety is anyone’s responsibility but her own, for starters.

Nope. If she is drunk or roofied or scared, it's not OK to have sex with her. Yes it would be better if she hadn't got in that situation but the partner who proceeds without consent is responsible for that choice he is making. Stop acting like men can't help themselves. And stop acting like the goal should be anything except enthusiastic participation.

No one is saying it’s okay to rape someone so come off it.

You’re talking about teaching your daughter that it’s not her fault after she’s been victimized. Meanwhile, I’ll continue teaching my daughter how to drastically reduce her chances of being victimized in the first place.

It’s magical thinking to imagine that your daughter will someday live in world where no man will sexually assault her if she gets blackout drunk at a random party, because finally someone taught all those darn rapists that they’re not allowed to do that!

Seriously, do you hear yourself?

You responded to a thread about someone's actual assault, and about how a man could possibly know a woman didn't consent. Your response was "stop teaching girls that they can't use their words." Do you hear yourself?

The post directly above yours was about someone too drunk to consent. Is that ideal? No. Should you teach your DD not to get drunk like that, especially with people she doesn't know or trust? Of course, that's a great thing to teach. AND ALSO teach boys, and expect boys, not to have sex with someone who is too drunk to consent, regardless of whether she says no. Boys absolutely have responsibility for what they do with their own bodies and whether they choose to have sex with someone who didn't clearly consent.

Stop.Being.Stupid.

You can’t control what other people do or don’t teach their sons. Just like you can’t control whether or not your son gives a sh!t. Worry about teaching your daughter to protect herself and not to rely on the kindness of strangers. The only person she can count on to watch out for her safety is herself.

Stop.Infantilizing.Girls.

You are revolting and offensive. It is not "infantilizing" girls to expect boys to respect women. To gain consent. To learn to accept no. I'm all for teaching girls about risks but that has been going on for generations. It's time for BOYS and parents of boys to play a role here. Failing to do that is infantilizing boys, if anything.

Gain consent from whom and what does that look like exactly? The two teens, which I assume we’re talking about, are hanging out and they like each other.

Are we talking about the boy asking “do I have your consent?” every step of the way? And then the girl saying back “yes, do i have your consent?” And so on?

This isn’t any normal interaction. This must be the anxious generation.

+1

These moms are out of their minds. I challenge them to think about how their own sexual interactions go with their partners (if they’re still even having sex, which I doubt).

Do their husband get their explicit, verbal, enthusiastic consent when they kiss them goodbye in the morning?

This discussion is obviously about situations where consent is ambiguous (totally new person, first time) or non-existent (cat calling).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP above and I forgot to add that I was sexually assaulted multiple times in my late teens and 20s and didn’t even fully understand it was sexual assault until the last time (when I pressed charges and was ready to testify until last-minute plea deal). That’s why I have started so early with DD.

I’m sorry this happened to you.
I’m not really understanding a sexual assault that you “didn’t really understand was sexual assault” until it happened to you several times.
Obviously that sounds horrific. Very confusing though for the guy as well if he also didn’t realize that it was against your will? Just trying to figure out how that is communicated after the fact so that he is also aware that you now realize it was sexual assault.

I am not PP but a lot of people think it isn't assault if it isn't violent rape. Too drunk to consent, froze up, groped but no penetration - lots of people wrongly think these are not assault.

How is the guy going to know that you don’t want it if you don’t say no.

Unless she clearly says yes, it should not proceed. PERIOD. My friends with boys are teaching their boys this.

If they are drinking to the point of drunk and unable to consent it shoudl not go forward.

Boys aren't animals. It's time we stop treating them like they are not capable of knowing when there is consent.

It’s well past time to stop teaching girls that they can’t use their words. Stop infantilizing women and girls. Don’t teach your daughters that her safety is anyone’s responsibility but her own, for starters.

Nope. If she is drunk or roofied or scared, it's not OK to have sex with her. Yes it would be better if she hadn't got in that situation but the partner who proceeds without consent is responsible for that choice he is making. Stop acting like men can't help themselves. And stop acting like the goal should be anything except enthusiastic participation.

No one is saying it’s okay to rape someone so come off it.

You’re talking about teaching your daughter that it’s not her fault after she’s been victimized. Meanwhile, I’ll continue teaching my daughter how to drastically reduce her chances of being victimized in the first place.

It’s magical thinking to imagine that your daughter will someday live in world where no man will sexually assault her if she gets blackout drunk at a random party, because finally someone taught all those darn rapists that they’re not allowed to do that!

Seriously, do you hear yourself?

You responded to a thread about someone's actual assault, and about how a man could possibly know a woman didn't consent. Your response was "stop teaching girls that they can't use their words." Do you hear yourself?

The post directly above yours was about someone too drunk to consent. Is that ideal? No. Should you teach your DD not to get drunk like that, especially with people she doesn't know or trust? Of course, that's a great thing to teach. AND ALSO teach boys, and expect boys, not to have sex with someone who is too drunk to consent, regardless of whether she says no. Boys absolutely have responsibility for what they do with their own bodies and whether they choose to have sex with someone who didn't clearly consent.

Stop.Being.Stupid.

You can’t control what other people do or don’t teach their sons. Just like you can’t control whether or not your son gives a sh!t. Worry about teaching your daughter to protect herself and not to rely on the kindness of strangers. The only person she can count on to watch out for her safety is herself.

Stop.Infantilizing.Girls.

You are revolting and offensive. It is not "infantilizing" girls to expect boys to respect women. To gain consent. To learn to accept no. I'm all for teaching girls about risks but that has been going on for generations. It's time for BOYS and parents of boys to play a role here. Failing to do that is infantilizing boys, if anything.

Gain consent from whom and what does that look like exactly? The two teens, which I assume we’re talking about, are hanging out and they like each other.

Are we talking about the boy asking “do I have your consent?” every step of the way? And then the girl saying back “yes, do i have your consent?” And so on?

This isn’t any normal interaction. This must be the anxious generation.

+1

These moms are out of their minds. I challenge them to think about how their own sexual interactions go with their partners (if they’re still even having sex, which I doubt).

Do their husband get their explicit, verbal, enthusiastic consent when they kiss them goodbye in the morning?

This discussion is obviously about situations where consent is ambiguous (totally new person, first time) or non-existent (cat calling).

Have you even read this thread? There is no such thing as ambiguous consent, implied consent, ongoing consent, repeat consent, etc. If it’s not an enthusiastic “yes!” every time for every step of the way, it’s a no, and also sexual assault.

I’m guessing, in your ignorance, you and your husband have been sexually assaulting each other for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP above and I forgot to add that I was sexually assaulted multiple times in my late teens and 20s and didn’t even fully understand it was sexual assault until the last time (when I pressed charges and was ready to testify until last-minute plea deal). That’s why I have started so early with DD.

I’m sorry this happened to you.
I’m not really understanding a sexual assault that you “didn’t really understand was sexual assault” until it happened to you several times.
Obviously that sounds horrific. Very confusing though for the guy as well if he also didn’t realize that it was against your will? Just trying to figure out how that is communicated after the fact so that he is also aware that you now realize it was sexual assault.

I am not PP but a lot of people think it isn't assault if it isn't violent rape. Too drunk to consent, froze up, groped but no penetration - lots of people wrongly think these are not assault.

How is the guy going to know that you don’t want it if you don’t say no.

Unless she clearly says yes, it should not proceed. PERIOD. My friends with boys are teaching their boys this.

If they are drinking to the point of drunk and unable to consent it shoudl not go forward.

Boys aren't animals. It's time we stop treating them like they are not capable of knowing when there is consent.

It’s well past time to stop teaching girls that they can’t use their words. Stop infantilizing women and girls. Don’t teach your daughters that her safety is anyone’s responsibility but her own, for starters.

Nope. If she is drunk or roofied or scared, it's not OK to have sex with her. Yes it would be better if she hadn't got in that situation but the partner who proceeds without consent is responsible for that choice he is making. Stop acting like men can't help themselves. And stop acting like the goal should be anything except enthusiastic participation.

No one is saying it’s okay to rape someone so come off it.

You’re talking about teaching your daughter that it’s not her fault after she’s been victimized. Meanwhile, I’ll continue teaching my daughter how to drastically reduce her chances of being victimized in the first place.

It’s magical thinking to imagine that your daughter will someday live in world where no man will sexually assault her if she gets blackout drunk at a random party, because finally someone taught all those darn rapists that they’re not allowed to do that!

Seriously, do you hear yourself?

You responded to a thread about someone's actual assault, and about how a man could possibly know a woman didn't consent. Your response was "stop teaching girls that they can't use their words." Do you hear yourself?

The post directly above yours was about someone too drunk to consent. Is that ideal? No. Should you teach your DD not to get drunk like that, especially with people she doesn't know or trust? Of course, that's a great thing to teach. AND ALSO teach boys, and expect boys, not to have sex with someone who is too drunk to consent, regardless of whether she says no. Boys absolutely have responsibility for what they do with their own bodies and whether they choose to have sex with someone who didn't clearly consent.

Stop.Being.Stupid.

You can’t control what other people do or don’t teach their sons. Just like you can’t control whether or not your son gives a sh!t. Worry about teaching your daughter to protect herself and not to rely on the kindness of strangers. The only person she can count on to watch out for her safety is herself.

Stop.Infantilizing.Girls.

You are revolting and offensive. It is not "infantilizing" girls to expect boys to respect women. To gain consent. To learn to accept no. I'm all for teaching girls about risks but that has been going on for generations. It's time for BOYS and parents of boys to play a role here. Failing to do that is infantilizing boys, if anything.

Gain consent from whom and what does that look like exactly? The two teens, which I assume we’re talking about, are hanging out and they like each other.

Are we talking about the boy asking “do I have your consent?” every step of the way? And then the girl saying back “yes, do i have your consent?” And so on?

This isn’t any normal interaction. This must be the anxious generation.

Maybe this would be easier in writing?