Crazy NYT article on the lab leak theory for COVID

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

The US has had terrible leadership for over seven years now. That matters.

Agree, and it’s because of the quality of the candidates. We need more capable and honest people to run for office than we are seeing.

Our elite, capable, and honest people can easily make a lot more money in the private sector these days. Their choice to work in the private sector as opposed to being under the thumb of the wealthy and powerful RNC and DNC donors is completely understandable. This reason combined with a large percentage of American voters being lazy, careless, and foolish is how we end up with Trump vs Biden round two. This truth hurts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

The US has had terrible leadership for over seven years now. That matters.

Agree, and it’s because of the quality of the candidates. We need more capable and honest people to run for office than we are seeing.

Our elite, capable, and honest people can easily make a lot more money in the private sector these days. Their choice to work in the private sector as opposed to being under the thumb of the wealthy and powerful RNC and DNC donors is completely understandable. This reason combined with a large percentage of American voters being lazy, careless, and foolish is how we end up with Trump vs Biden round two. This truth hurts.

Hmm…raise presidential salary then maybe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

The lab leak theory was a worthless talking point meant to distract from anything productive. It didn’t save you from exposure. It didn’t trace cases. It didn’t help you get treated effectively. It didn’t supply PPE. It didn’t help the economy.
IT DID GET A BUNCH OF ASIAN PEOPLE PUNCHED.

Science isn’t talking points. Sorry it hurts your feelings to learn where the virus originated, but facts matter.

You didn’t have any facts then.
You had theories and talking points.
And it got Asian people hurt.
That’s who got hurt.

You sound unhinged. The facts are that people were asking about a lab leak theory at the time and it was dismissed even by public health professionals as a conspiracy theory and that it disrupted public trust when it was most needed. The fact is that the most likely source of origin of covid is a lab leak. THOSE are the facts, not your ridiculous accusations that people who followed the evidence wanted to punch Asian people. That’s just slander and frankly silly. Why are you so afraid of admitting this was a mistake? Everyone knows the suppression of the lab leak theory was an error. Open your eyes.

Quit being a lazy jerk and take 5 min to google the instances of violence perpetrated against innocent people because of irresponsible, and unproductive rhetoric by the people “ just asking questions” re: a lab leak. The facts are you had no facts. Because no one at the time had facts. And at the time it didn’t matter.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

The lab leak theory was a worthless talking point meant to distract from anything productive. It didn’t save you from exposure. It didn’t trace cases. It didn’t help you get treated effectively. It didn’t supply PPE. It didn’t help the economy.
IT DID GET A BUNCH OF ASIAN PEOPLE PUNCHED.

Science isn’t talking points. Sorry it hurts your feelings to learn where the virus originated, but facts matter.

You didn’t have any facts then.
You had theories and talking points.
And it got Asian people hurt.
That’s who got hurt.

You sound unhinged. The facts are that people were asking about a lab leak theory at the time and it was dismissed even by public health professionals as a conspiracy theory and that it disrupted public trust when it was most needed. The fact is that the most likely source of origin of covid is a lab leak. THOSE are the facts, not your ridiculous accusations that people who followed the evidence wanted to punch Asian people. That’s just slander and frankly silly. Why are you so afraid of admitting this was a mistake? Everyone knows the suppression of the lab leak theory was an error. Open your eyes.

“People who followed the evidence”. Sounds like the q-anoners.

What was this “evidence”?

And why TF was that important at that time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

It didn’t matter. In spring 2020 the lab leak theory was a worthless conversation.
Unless you worked for the White House and needed to change the subject from your abject failures.

There is nothing worthless about finding out where a virus that killed millions originated, both for understanding how it can about and for preventing it in the future. No amount of stomping your feet that this is an unimportant topic is going to be convincing to people. It mattered then and it mattered now.

It mattered BEFORE the pandemic.
It matters now.
No. It did t matter then.
Unless you just want to punch Asian people. The I guess you got the conversation you were looking for.

This idea that investigating a lab leak at the time a pandemic broke out is out of bounds unless you “want to punch Asian people” is patently absurd.

Investigate it how? How were we going to investigate it? We weren’t handling the emergency happening here. We weren’t controlling the aspects of the pandemic that were in our control. But you want to pretend China was allowing an investigation. Or that we were capable conducting one.
Ok.

Oh good, so we have moved on from the silly “punching Asians” accusation?

You are a lazy jerk, with a bad memory. That doesn’t change the fact people got attacked..

You just made an accusation that I don’t recall anti Asian bias. I never said that. I have said that the suppression of the lab leak theory at the time was wrong, which it was. You seem obsessed with the idea that you can’t investigate a lab leak and condemn anti Asian hate. That’s a fallacy.

You in 2020: “I’m going to perpetuate a theory that l (presently) have no evidence to support, that is contributing to fomented violence against Asian Americans.”
Media and feeling persons: “let’s not dig into unsupported origin theories right now, because it’s unhelpful and literally hurting Asian Americans”
You: “ how dare you silence me!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

The US has had terrible leadership for over seven years now. That matters.

Agree, and it’s because of the quality of the candidates. We need more capable and honest people to run for office than we are seeing.

Our elite, capable, and honest people can easily make a lot more money in the private sector these days. Their choice to work in the private sector as opposed to being under the thumb of the wealthy and powerful RNC and DNC donors is completely understandable. This reason combined with a large percentage of American voters being lazy, careless, and foolish is how we end up with Trump vs Biden round two. This truth hurts.

Honestly, who in the right mind would run for public office because it involves a large number of death threats in addition to the low pay. The prevailing public discourse runs down civil service and the government.

[Anonymous]

I would have to go looking, but wasn't president mccrazypants on twitter in February 2020 praising China for their transparency?

The rest of us were like "WTF is he talking about? CHINA?"

But much like all things he says, he and his nutsos tell us he didn't say that, never happened, rinse and repeat. Like he's currently doing with the lock her up nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would have to go looking, but wasn't president mccrazypants on twitter in February 2020 praising China for their transparency?

The rest of us were like "WTF is he talking about? CHINA?"

But much like all things he says, he and his nutsos tell us he didn't say that, never happened, rinse and repeat. Like he's currently doing with the lock her up nonsense.

Yes he did. Let’s be real. We were effed the day the pandemic team left China.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

The US has had terrible leadership for over seven years now. That matters.

Agree, and it’s because of the quality of the candidates. We need more capable and honest people to run for office than we are seeing.

Our elite, capable, and honest people can easily make a lot more money in the private sector these days. Their choice to work in the private sector as opposed to being under the thumb of the wealthy and powerful RNC and DNC donors is completely understandable. This reason combined with a large percentage of American voters being lazy, careless, and foolish is how we end up with Trump vs Biden round two. This truth hurts.

Hmm…raise presidential salary then maybe?

Yes, that is something to consider. 400k annually for the most important job in the world is a joke by today's standards. If we could also somehow reduce the influence of money in politics, we could eliminate some of the toxicity spewing from the RNC and DNC which would presumably create a more welcoming political environment for the people that should be leading our country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

THANK YOU.

Wow, this conversation is distressing. I’m in NYC (ask Jeff), posted up thread about losing a grandparent to COVID in the window before vaccine distribution and blame Trump’s administration squarely for the disaster across different dimensions. I’ve voted blue and worked for candidates my entire life. WHY can’t we discuss with some measure of integrity the point of the article and the inadvertent fallout of suppressing this specific conversation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

The US has had terrible leadership for over seven years now. That matters.

Agree, and it’s because of the quality of the candidates. We need more capable and honest people to run for office than we are seeing.

Our elite, capable, and honest people can easily make a lot more money in the private sector these days. Their choice to work in the private sector as opposed to being under the thumb of the wealthy and powerful RNC and DNC donors is completely understandable. This reason combined with a large percentage of American voters being lazy, careless, and foolish is how we end up with Trump vs Biden round two. This truth hurts.

Hmm…raise presidential salary then maybe?

Yes, that is something to consider. 400k annually for the most important job in the world is a joke by today's standards. If we could also somehow reduce the influence of money in politics, we could eliminate some of the toxicity spewing from the RNC and DNC which would presumably create a more welcoming political environment for the people that should be leading our country.

thanks, scotus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

THANK YOU.

Wow, this conversation is distressing. I’m in NYC (ask Jeff), posted up thread about losing a grandparent to COVID in the window before vaccine distribution and blame Trump’s administration squarely for the disaster across different dimensions. I’ve voted blue and worked for candidates my entire life. WHY can’t we discuss with some measure of integrity the point of the article and the inadvertent fallout of suppressing this specific conversation?

Sure babe.
This is the time for that conversation. But posters here and elsewhere want a bunch of attaboys for an unsupported 50- 50 guess 4 years ago, for a conversation that wasn’t helpful or constructive in the moment, and was literally hurting people.
It doesn’t make you scientifically open minded for guessing the lab was possibly responsible for the origins of the pandemic. It’s just making a somewhat educated worthless guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

THANK YOU.

Wow, this conversation is distressing. I’m in NYC (ask Jeff), posted up thread about losing a grandparent to COVID in the window before vaccine distribution and blame Trump’s administration squarely for the disaster across different dimensions. I’ve voted blue and worked for candidates my entire life. WHY can’t we discuss with some measure of integrity the point of the article and the inadvertent fallout of suppressing this specific conversation?

Sure babe.
This is the time for that conversation. But posters here and elsewhere want a bunch of attaboys for an unsupported 50- 50 guess 4 years ago, for a conversation that wasn’t helpful or constructive in the moment, and was literally hurting people.
It doesn’t make you scientifically open minded for guessing the lab was possibly responsible for the origins of the pandemic. It’s just making a somewhat educated worthless guess.

Who is time traveling back 4 years? Not me. Not the poster I quoted. Take your “babe” and shove it up your capacious nasty ass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

THANK YOU.

Wow, this conversation is distressing. I’m in NYC (ask Jeff), posted up thread about losing a grandparent to COVID in the window before vaccine distribution and blame Trump’s administration squarely for the disaster across different dimensions. I’ve voted blue and worked for candidates my entire life. WHY can’t we discuss with some measure of integrity the point of the article and the inadvertent fallout of suppressing this specific conversation?

Sure babe.
This is the time for that conversation. But posters here and elsewhere want a bunch of attaboys for an unsupported 50- 50 guess 4 years ago, for a conversation that wasn’t helpful or constructive in the moment, and was literally hurting people.
It doesn’t make you scientifically open minded for guessing the lab was possibly responsible for the origins of the pandemic. It’s just making a somewhat educated worthless guess.

Who is time traveling back 4 years? Not me. Not the poster I quoted. Take your “babe” and shove it up your capacious nasty ass.

Try to at least make an argument. We have enough idiot republicans posting here, we don’t need democrats competing for the title. TIA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

THANK YOU.

Wow, this conversation is distressing. I’m in NYC (ask Jeff), posted up thread about losing a grandparent to COVID in the window before vaccine distribution and blame Trump’s administration squarely for the disaster across different dimensions. I’ve voted blue and worked for candidates my entire life. WHY can’t we discuss with some measure of integrity the point of the article and the inadvertent fallout of suppressing this specific conversation?

Sure babe.
This is the time for that conversation. But posters here and elsewhere want a bunch of attaboys for an unsupported 50- 50 guess 4 years ago, for a conversation that wasn’t helpful or constructive in the moment, and was literally hurting people.
It doesn’t make you scientifically open minded for guessing the lab was possibly responsible for the origins of the pandemic. It’s just making a somewhat educated worthless guess.

Who is time traveling back 4 years? Not me. Not the poster I quoted. Take your “babe” and shove it up your capacious nasty ass.

Try to at least make an argument. We have enough idiot republicans posting here, we don’t need democrats competing for the title. TIA.

I made one, you worthless, smug ahole.
There is permanent value in discussing the impact of secrecy and condemnation after the fact about the origins of the pandemic.