Crazy NYT article on the lab leak theory for COVID

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

The US has had terrible leadership for over seven years now. That matters.

Agree, and it’s because of the quality of the candidates. We need more capable and honest people to run for office than we are seeing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

It didn’t matter. In spring 2020 the lab leak theory was a worthless conversation.
Unless you worked for the White House and needed to change the subject from your abject failures.

There is nothing worthless about finding out where a virus that killed millions originated, both for understanding how it can about and for preventing it in the future. No amount of stomping your feet that this is an unimportant topic is going to be convincing to people. It mattered then and it mattered now.

It mattered BEFORE the pandemic.
It matters now.
No. It did t matter then.
Unless you just want to punch Asian people. The I guess you got the conversation you were looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

The lab leak theory was a worthless talking point meant to distract from anything productive. It didn’t save you from exposure. It didn’t trace cases. It didn’t help you get treated effectively. It didn’t supply PPE. It didn’t help the economy.
IT DID GET A BUNCH OF ASIAN PEOPLE PUNCHED.

Science isn’t talking points. Sorry it hurts your feelings to learn where the virus originated, but facts matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

It didn’t matter. In spring 2020 the lab leak theory was a worthless conversation.
Unless you worked for the White House and needed to change the subject from your abject failures.

There is nothing worthless about finding out where a virus that killed millions originated, both for understanding how it can about and for preventing it in the future. No amount of stomping your feet that this is an unimportant topic is going to be convincing to people. It mattered then and it mattered now.

It mattered BEFORE the pandemic.
It matters now.
No. It did t matter then.
Unless you just want to punch Asian people. The I guess you got the conversation you were looking for.

This idea that investigating a lab leak at the time a pandemic broke out is out of bounds unless you “want to punch Asian people” is patently absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the virus would have came from Russia there would be no liberal outcries of “don’t blame it on Russia and call it the Russia Virus because it might fuel anti Slavic hatred.”

Unless you’re living in delusion you know this would have been the case. Why are we caring more about the China, which is also our enemy?

Agree. Same if it had originated from a lab in the U.S.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

The lab leak theory was a worthless talking point meant to distract from anything productive. It didn’t save you from exposure. It didn’t trace cases. It didn’t help you get treated effectively. It didn’t supply PPE. It didn’t help the economy.
IT DID GET A BUNCH OF ASIAN PEOPLE PUNCHED.

Science isn’t talking points. Sorry it hurts your feelings to learn where the virus originated, but facts matter.

You didn’t have any facts then.
You had theories and talking points.
And it got Asian people hurt.
That’s who got hurt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also “small government” got us a totally disorganized and chaotic response.
But it was a “blue city” “ blue state” virus! WHO cares?!? Remember when Trump wouldn’t enact any of that mechanisms of federal government to help? He barely utilized the DPA.

Or when Jared had his school friends run the task force?

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/09/jared-kushner-let-the-markets-decide-covid-19-fate

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-coronavirus-effort-said-to-be-hampered-by-inexperienced-volunteers/2020/05/05/6166ef0c-8e1c-11ea-9e23-6914ee410a5f_story.html

God I need to step off this thread, because reliving all of this stupidity is gonna give me a migraine.

Seriously guys. Get your heads out of your asses. There will be some other emergency and the republicans will F it all up again.

Maybe you should leave this discussion if you are going to get a migraine, don’t hurt yourself. But it wasn’t the Republicans who were wrong about the lab leak theory. Or the effect of mask legislation. Or the ramifications of extended school closures. And on and on.

Hmmm, well my network of Dem friends thought it was likely that Covid 19 originated from a lab, most agreed that masking requirements had as many cons as pros, and we all knew that extended school closures were going to cause more harm than help. What politicians say, do, and lead you to believe is not indicative of the thoughts of the people they are suppose to represent. This isn't that difficult of a concept to figure out, is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

The lab leak theory was a worthless talking point meant to distract from anything productive. It didn’t save you from exposure. It didn’t trace cases. It didn’t help you get treated effectively. It didn’t supply PPE. It didn’t help the economy.
IT DID GET A BUNCH OF ASIAN PEOPLE PUNCHED.

Science isn’t talking points. Sorry it hurts your feelings to learn where the virus originated, but facts matter.

You didn’t have any facts then.
You had theories and talking points.
And it got Asian people hurt.
That’s who got hurt.

You sound unhinged. The facts are that people were asking about a lab leak theory at the time and it was dismissed even by public health professionals as a conspiracy theory and that it disrupted public trust when it was most needed. The fact is that the most likely source of origin of covid is a lab leak. THOSE are the facts, not your ridiculous accusations that people who followed the evidence wanted to punch Asian people. That’s just slander and frankly silly. Why are you so afraid of admitting this was a mistake? Everyone knows the suppression of the lab leak theory was an error. Open your eyes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

It didn’t matter. In spring 2020 the lab leak theory was a worthless conversation.
Unless you worked for the White House and needed to change the subject from your abject failures.

There is nothing worthless about finding out where a virus that killed millions originated, both for understanding how it can about and for preventing it in the future. No amount of stomping your feet that this is an unimportant topic is going to be convincing to people. It mattered then and it mattered now.

It mattered BEFORE the pandemic.
It matters now.
No. It did t matter then.
Unless you just want to punch Asian people. The I guess you got the conversation you were looking for.

This idea that investigating a lab leak at the time a pandemic broke out is out of bounds unless you “want to punch Asian people” is patently absurd.

Investigate it how? How were we going to investigate it? We weren’t handling the emergency happening here. We weren’t controlling the aspects of the pandemic that were in our control. But you want to pretend China was allowing an investigation. Or that we were capable conducting one.
Ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also “small government” got us a totally disorganized and chaotic response.
But it was a “blue city” “ blue state” virus! WHO cares?!? Remember when Trump wouldn’t enact any of that mechanisms of federal government to help? He barely utilized the DPA.

Or when Jared had his school friends run the task force?

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/09/jared-kushner-let-the-markets-decide-covid-19-fate

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-coronavirus-effort-said-to-be-hampered-by-inexperienced-volunteers/2020/05/05/6166ef0c-8e1c-11ea-9e23-6914ee410a5f_story.html

God I need to step off this thread, because reliving all of this stupidity is gonna give me a migraine.

Seriously guys. Get your heads out of your asses. There will be some other emergency and the republicans will F it all up again.

Maybe you should leave this discussion if you are going to get a migraine, don’t hurt yourself. But it wasn’t the Republicans who were wrong about the lab leak theory. Or the effect of mask legislation. Or the ramifications of extended school closures. And on and on.

Hmmm, well my network of Dem friends thought it was likely that Covid 19 originated from a lab, most agreed that masking requirements had as many cons as pros, and we all knew that extended school closures were going to cause more harm than help. What politicians say, do, and lead you to believe is not indicative of the thoughts of the people they are suppose to represent. This isn't that difficult of a concept to figure out, is it?

Here’s a review from the (leftist) BMJ about what really happened to the public debate about the lab leak in real time. Your personal network of Dem friends were not representative of Democrats generally and certainly not of left leaning media.

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1656

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

It didn’t matter. In spring 2020 the lab leak theory was a worthless conversation.
Unless you worked for the White House and needed to change the subject from your abject failures.

There is nothing worthless about finding out where a virus that killed millions originated, both for understanding how it can about and for preventing it in the future. No amount of stomping your feet that this is an unimportant topic is going to be convincing to people. It mattered then and it mattered now.

It mattered BEFORE the pandemic.
It matters now.
No. It did t matter then.
Unless you just want to punch Asian people. The I guess you got the conversation you were looking for.

This idea that investigating a lab leak at the time a pandemic broke out is out of bounds unless you “want to punch Asian people” is patently absurd.

Investigate it how? How were we going to investigate it? We weren’t handling the emergency happening here. We weren’t controlling the aspects of the pandemic that were in our control. But you want to pretend China was allowing an investigation. Or that we were capable conducting one.
Ok.

Oh good, so we have moved on from the silly “punching Asians” accusation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

The lab leak theory was a worthless talking point meant to distract from anything productive. It didn’t save you from exposure. It didn’t trace cases. It didn’t help you get treated effectively. It didn’t supply PPE. It didn’t help the economy.
IT DID GET A BUNCH OF ASIAN PEOPLE PUNCHED.

Science isn’t talking points. Sorry it hurts your feelings to learn where the virus originated, but facts matter.

You didn’t have any facts then.
You had theories and talking points.
And it got Asian people hurt.
That’s who got hurt.

You sound unhinged. The facts are that people were asking about a lab leak theory at the time and it was dismissed even by public health professionals as a conspiracy theory and that it disrupted public trust when it was most needed. The fact is that the most likely source of origin of covid is a lab leak. THOSE are the facts, not your ridiculous accusations that people who followed the evidence wanted to punch Asian people. That’s just slander and frankly silly. Why are you so afraid of admitting this was a mistake? Everyone knows the suppression of the lab leak theory was an error. Open your eyes.

Quit being a lazy jerk and take 5 min to google the instances of violence perpetrated against innocent people because of irresponsible, and unproductive rhetoric by the people “ just asking questions” re: a lab leak. The facts are you had no facts. Because no one at the time had facts. And at the time it didn’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

It didn’t matter. In spring 2020 the lab leak theory was a worthless conversation.
Unless you worked for the White House and needed to change the subject from your abject failures.

There is nothing worthless about finding out where a virus that killed millions originated, both for understanding how it can about and for preventing it in the future. No amount of stomping your feet that this is an unimportant topic is going to be convincing to people. It mattered then and it mattered now.

It mattered BEFORE the pandemic.
It matters now.
No. It did t matter then.
Unless you just want to punch Asian people. The I guess you got the conversation you were looking for.

This idea that investigating a lab leak at the time a pandemic broke out is out of bounds unless you “want to punch Asian people” is patently absurd.

Investigate it how? How were we going to investigate it? We weren’t handling the emergency happening here. We weren’t controlling the aspects of the pandemic that were in our control. But you want to pretend China was allowing an investigation. Or that we were capable conducting one.
Ok.

Oh good, so we have moved on from the silly “punching Asians” accusation?

You are a lazy jerk, with a bad memory. That doesn’t change the fact people got attacked..

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

The lab leak theory was a worthless talking point meant to distract from anything productive. It didn’t save you from exposure. It didn’t trace cases. It didn’t help you get treated effectively. It didn’t supply PPE. It didn’t help the economy.
IT DID GET A BUNCH OF ASIAN PEOPLE PUNCHED.

Science isn’t talking points. Sorry it hurts your feelings to learn where the virus originated, but facts matter.

You didn’t have any facts then.
You had theories and talking points.
And it got Asian people hurt.
That’s who got hurt.

You sound unhinged. The facts are that people were asking about a lab leak theory at the time and it was dismissed even by public health professionals as a conspiracy theory and that it disrupted public trust when it was most needed. The fact is that the most likely source of origin of covid is a lab leak. THOSE are the facts, not your ridiculous accusations that people who followed the evidence wanted to punch Asian people. That’s just slander and frankly silly. Why are you so afraid of admitting this was a mistake? Everyone knows the suppression of the lab leak theory was an error. Open your eyes.

Quit being a lazy jerk and take 5 min to google the instances of violence perpetrated against innocent people because of irresponsible, and unproductive rhetoric by the people “ just asking questions” re: a lab leak. The facts are you had no facts. Because no one at the time had facts. And at the time it didn’t matter.

I don’t need to google to know that it’s unhinged to suggest that following the evidence to a lab leak as the origin of covid is responsible for punching Asians. Give it a rest. You don’t get to declare science off limits because some people were violent. That’s not healthy for society because it makes science off limits.

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Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

It didn’t matter. In spring 2020 the lab leak theory was a worthless conversation.
Unless you worked for the White House and needed to change the subject from your abject failures.

There is nothing worthless about finding out where a virus that killed millions originated, both for understanding how it can about and for preventing it in the future. No amount of stomping your feet that this is an unimportant topic is going to be convincing to people. It mattered then and it mattered now.

It mattered BEFORE the pandemic.
It matters now.
No. It did t matter then.
Unless you just want to punch Asian people. The I guess you got the conversation you were looking for.

This idea that investigating a lab leak at the time a pandemic broke out is out of bounds unless you “want to punch Asian people” is patently absurd.

Investigate it how? How were we going to investigate it? We weren’t handling the emergency happening here. We weren’t controlling the aspects of the pandemic that were in our control. But you want to pretend China was allowing an investigation. Or that we were capable conducting one.
Ok.

Oh good, so we have moved on from the silly “punching Asians” accusation?

You are a lazy jerk, with a bad memory. That doesn’t change the fact people got attacked..

You just made an accusation that I don’t recall anti Asian bias. I never said that. I have said that the suppression of the lab leak theory at the time was wrong, which it was. You seem obsessed with the idea that you can’t investigate a lab leak and condemn anti Asian hate. That’s a fallacy.