Crazy NYT article on the lab leak theory for COVID

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

THANK YOU.

Wow, this conversation is distressing. I’m in NYC (ask Jeff), posted up thread about losing a grandparent to COVID in the window before vaccine distribution and blame Trump’s administration squarely for the disaster across different dimensions. I’ve voted blue and worked for candidates my entire life. WHY can’t we discuss with some measure of integrity the point of the article and the inadvertent fallout of suppressing this specific conversation?

Sure babe.
This is the time for that conversation. But posters here and elsewhere want a bunch of attaboys for an unsupported 50- 50 guess 4 years ago, for a conversation that wasn’t helpful or constructive in the moment, and was literally hurting people.
It doesn’t make you scientifically open minded for guessing the lab was possibly responsible for the origins of the pandemic. It’s just making a somewhat educated worthless guess.

Who is time traveling back 4 years? Not me. Not the poster I quoted. Take your “babe” and shove it up your capacious nasty ass.

Try to at least make an argument. We have enough idiot republicans posting here, we don’t need democrats competing for the title. TIA.

Assuming you know someone's political affiliation based solely on the content of their posts is a sure-fire way to continue the spread of ignorance and division. I'd expect nothing less from my politically bubblized Republican and Dem friends.

[Anonymous]

I will have to dig into the article when I have time and bandwidth to focus on it. I always thought a lab leak was at least possible, but at the time, didn't think that having a huge argument about it was worthwhile as it didn't really help in the moment. We had bigger problems to deal with like a novel virus that we had very little info on that was spreading like crazy and actually killing people at a pretty high rate. I mean, sure, I would have been OK if the scientists who deal with lab containment/safety had spent time looking into it at the time, but as others said, China was a mess at the time too. They were building hospitals in a week to deal with how many cases they had.

I am a lifelong democrat and do think we need to get to the bottom of what actually happened at some point in time. I agree that the gotchas and attaboys are useless currently - let's just work with the international scientific community to figure it out so that we can TRY to keep this insanity from occurring again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

THANK YOU.

Wow, this conversation is distressing. I’m in NYC (ask Jeff), posted up thread about losing a grandparent to COVID in the window before vaccine distribution and blame Trump’s administration squarely for the disaster across different dimensions. I’ve voted blue and worked for candidates my entire life. WHY can’t we discuss with some measure of integrity the point of the article and the inadvertent fallout of suppressing this specific conversation?

Sure babe.
This is the time for that conversation. But posters here and elsewhere want a bunch of attaboys for an unsupported 50- 50 guess 4 years ago, for a conversation that wasn’t helpful or constructive in the moment, and was literally hurting people.
It doesn’t make you scientifically open minded for guessing the lab was possibly responsible for the origins of the pandemic. It’s just making a somewhat educated worthless guess.

Who is time traveling back 4 years? Not me. Not the poster I quoted. Take your “babe” and shove it up your capacious nasty ass.

Try to at least make an argument. We have enough idiot republicans posting here, we don’t need democrats competing for the title. TIA.

Assuming you know someone's political affiliation based solely on the content of their posts is a sure-fire way to continue the spread of ignorance and division. I'd expect nothing less from my politically bubblized Republican and Dem friends.

READ BEFORE POSTING:
“I’ve voted blue and worked for candidates my entire life”.
And this may come as a shock to you, but the politics forum gets peppered with posts from Republicans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

THANK YOU.

Wow, this conversation is distressing. I’m in NYC (ask Jeff), posted up thread about losing a grandparent to COVID in the window before vaccine distribution and blame Trump’s administration squarely for the disaster across different dimensions. I’ve voted blue and worked for candidates my entire life. WHY can’t we discuss with some measure of integrity the point of the article and the inadvertent fallout of suppressing this specific conversation?

Sure babe.
This is the time for that conversation. But posters here and elsewhere want a bunch of attaboys for an unsupported 50- 50 guess 4 years ago, for a conversation that wasn’t helpful or constructive in the moment, and was literally hurting people.
It doesn’t make you scientifically open minded for guessing the lab was possibly responsible for the origins of the pandemic. It’s just making a somewhat educated worthless guess.

Who is time traveling back 4 years? Not me. Not the poster I quoted. Take your “babe” and shove it up your capacious nasty ass.

Try to at least make an argument. We have enough idiot republicans posting here, we don’t need democrats competing for the title. TIA.

I made one, you worthless, smug ahole.
There is permanent value in discussing the impact of secrecy and condemnation after the fact about the origins of the pandemic.

You didn’t. And I might be smug, but I’m also right. “The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic “ is literally the post you quoted. Yes we are discussing years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will have to dig into the article when I have time and bandwidth to focus on it. I always thought a lab leak was at least possible, but at the time, didn't think that having a huge argument about it was worthwhile as it didn't really help in the moment. We had bigger problems to deal with like a novel virus that we had very little info on that was spreading like crazy and actually killing people at a pretty high rate. I mean, sure, I would have been OK if the scientists who deal with lab containment/safety had spent time looking into it at the time, but as others said, China was a mess at the time too. They were building hospitals in a week to deal with how many cases they had.

I am a lifelong democrat and do think we need to get to the bottom of what actually happened at some point in time. I agree that the gotchas and attaboys are useless currently - let's just work with the international scientific community to figure it out so that we can TRY to keep this insanity from occurring again.

I agree. And I would submit that the gotchas and attaboys so typical of the GOP are a huge problem. They discourage meaningful, truthful, probing investigations and dialogue about not just this, but any topic/problem. With them, any information is taken and twisted to serve their political agenda and gain. Hardly conducive to getting anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

The lab leak theory was a worthless talking point meant to distract from anything productive. It didn’t save you from exposure. It didn’t trace cases. It didn’t help you get treated effectively. It didn’t supply PPE. It didn’t help the economy.
IT DID GET A BUNCH OF ASIAN PEOPLE PUNCHED.

Science isn’t talking points. Sorry it hurts your feelings to learn where the virus originated, but facts matter.

You didn’t have any facts then.
You had theories and talking points.
And it got Asian people hurt.
That’s who got hurt.

You sound unhinged. The facts are that people were asking about a lab leak theory at the time and it was dismissed even by public health professionals as a conspiracy theory and that it disrupted public trust when it was most needed. The fact is that the most likely source of origin of covid is a lab leak. THOSE are the facts, not your ridiculous accusations that people who followed the evidence wanted to punch Asian people. That’s just slander and frankly silly. Why are you so afraid of admitting this was a mistake? Everyone knows the suppression of the lab leak theory was an error. Open your eyes.

Quit being a lazy jerk and take 5 min to google the instances of violence perpetrated against innocent people because of irresponsible, and unproductive rhetoric by the people “ just asking questions” re: a lab leak. The facts are you had no facts. Because no one at the time had facts. And at the time it didn’t matter.

I don’t need to google to know that it’s unhinged to suggest that following the evidence to a lab leak as the origin of covid is responsible for punching Asians. Give it a rest. You don’t get to declare science off limits because some people were violent. That’s not healthy for society because it makes science off limits.

You are refusing to acknowledge that the GOP and their propaganda machine take anything they think will benefit them politically and twist it to suit their narrative, whomever it hurts be damned.

I am so sick of the discussions on here that pile all the Covid difficulties on Democrats, completely ignoring that the climate we exist in, the climate of winner-takes-all politics that eliminates all nuanced, realistic discussion and compromise to try and solve problems, is the product of decades of GOP propaganda beginning with Gringrich and his cronies.

You want real progress? You want real discussions of facts and solutions? You want real analysis of mistakes that were made, so that we can improve things. You need to vote out the GOP politicians who never, ever play fair and never, ever come to the table for good faith discussions.

Otherwise, take your anger and indignation and shove it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

The lab leak theory was a worthless talking point meant to distract from anything productive. It didn’t save you from exposure. It didn’t trace cases. It didn’t help you get treated effectively. It didn’t supply PPE. It didn’t help the economy.
IT DID GET A BUNCH OF ASIAN PEOPLE PUNCHED.

Science isn’t talking points. Sorry it hurts your feelings to learn where the virus originated, but facts matter.

You didn’t have any facts then.
You had theories and talking points.
And it got Asian people hurt.
That’s who got hurt.

You sound unhinged. The facts are that people were asking about a lab leak theory at the time and it was dismissed even by public health professionals as a conspiracy theory and that it disrupted public trust when it was most needed. The fact is that the most likely source of origin of covid is a lab leak. THOSE are the facts, not your ridiculous accusations that people who followed the evidence wanted to punch Asian people. That’s just slander and frankly silly. Why are you so afraid of admitting this was a mistake? Everyone knows the suppression of the lab leak theory was an error. Open your eyes.

Quit being a lazy jerk and take 5 min to google the instances of violence perpetrated against innocent people because of irresponsible, and unproductive rhetoric by the people “ just asking questions” re: a lab leak. The facts are you had no facts. Because no one at the time had facts. And at the time it didn’t matter.

I don’t need to google to know that it’s unhinged to suggest that following the evidence to a lab leak as the origin of covid is responsible for punching Asians. Give it a rest. You don’t get to declare science off limits because some people were violent. That’s not healthy for society because it makes science off limits.

You are refusing to acknowledge that the GOP and their propaganda machine take anything they think will benefit them politically and twist it to suit their narrative, whomever it hurts be damned.

I am so sick of the discussions on here that pile all the Covid difficulties on Democrats, completely ignoring that the climate we exist in, the climate of winner-takes-all politics that eliminates all nuanced, realistic discussion and compromise to try and solve problems, is the product of decades of GOP propaganda beginning with Gringrich and his cronies.

You want real progress? You want real discussions of facts and solutions? You want real analysis of mistakes that were made, so that we can improve things. You need to vote out the GOP politicians who never, ever play fair and never, ever come to the table for good faith discussions.

Otherwise, take your anger and indignation and shove it.

Democrats didn't just push back against the lab release theory because of Trump. They also view any criticism of China as racism so dismiss it all out of hand. Saying a lab failure doesn't matter would be like saying using gas and chemical weapons during WW1 didn't matter because the bodies were already in the ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

THANK YOU.

Wow, this conversation is distressing. I’m in NYC (ask Jeff), posted up thread about losing a grandparent to COVID in the window before vaccine distribution and blame Trump’s administration squarely for the disaster across different dimensions. I’ve voted blue and worked for candidates my entire life. WHY can’t we discuss with some measure of integrity the point of the article and the inadvertent fallout of suppressing this specific conversation?

Sure babe.
This is the time for that conversation. But posters here and elsewhere want a bunch of attaboys for an unsupported 50- 50 guess 4 years ago, for a conversation that wasn’t helpful or constructive in the moment, and was literally hurting people.
It doesn’t make you scientifically open minded for guessing the lab was possibly responsible for the origins of the pandemic. It’s just making a somewhat educated worthless guess.

Who is time traveling back 4 years? Not me. Not the poster I quoted. Take your “babe” and shove it up your capacious nasty ass.

Try to at least make an argument. We have enough idiot republicans posting here, we don’t need democrats competing for the title. TIA.

I made one, you worthless, smug ahole.
There is permanent value in discussing the impact of secrecy and condemnation after the fact about the origins of the pandemic.

You didn’t. And I might be smug, but I’m also right. “The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic “ is literally the post you quoted. Yes we are discussing years ago.

I did, and you’re not correct. I wasn’t only addressing that element of the reply. You’re just such a boundless loser and terribly proud of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

The lab leak theory was a worthless talking point meant to distract from anything productive. It didn’t save you from exposure. It didn’t trace cases. It didn’t help you get treated effectively. It didn’t supply PPE. It didn’t help the economy.
IT DID GET A BUNCH OF ASIAN PEOPLE PUNCHED.

Science isn’t talking points. Sorry it hurts your feelings to learn where the virus originated, but facts matter.

You didn’t have any facts then.
You had theories and talking points.
And it got Asian people hurt.
That’s who got hurt.

You sound unhinged. The facts are that people were asking about a lab leak theory at the time and it was dismissed even by public health professionals as a conspiracy theory and that it disrupted public trust when it was most needed. The fact is that the most likely source of origin of covid is a lab leak. THOSE are the facts, not your ridiculous accusations that people who followed the evidence wanted to punch Asian people. That’s just slander and frankly silly. Why are you so afraid of admitting this was a mistake? Everyone knows the suppression of the lab leak theory was an error. Open your eyes.

Quit being a lazy jerk and take 5 min to google the instances of violence perpetrated against innocent people because of irresponsible, and unproductive rhetoric by the people “ just asking questions” re: a lab leak. The facts are you had no facts. Because no one at the time had facts. And at the time it didn’t matter.

I don’t need to google to know that it’s unhinged to suggest that following the evidence to a lab leak as the origin of covid is responsible for punching Asians. Give it a rest. You don’t get to declare science off limits because some people were violent. That’s not healthy for society because it makes science off limits.

You are refusing to acknowledge that the GOP and their propaganda machine take anything they think will benefit them politically and twist it to suit their narrative, whomever it hurts be damned.

I am so sick of the discussions on here that pile all the Covid difficulties on Democrats, completely ignoring that the climate we exist in, the climate of winner-takes-all politics that eliminates all nuanced, realistic discussion and compromise to try and solve problems, is the product of decades of GOP propaganda beginning with Gringrich and his cronies.

You want real progress? You want real discussions of facts and solutions? You want real analysis of mistakes that were made, so that we can improve things. You need to vote out the GOP politicians who never, ever play fair and never, ever come to the table for good faith discussions.

Otherwise, take your anger and indignation and shove it.

Democrats didn't just push back against the lab release theory because of Trump. They also view any criticism of China as racism so dismiss it all out of hand. Saying a lab failure doesn't matter would be like saying using gas and chemical weapons during WW1 didn't matter because the bodies were already in the ground.

That is baloney. Dems don't view ANY criticism of China as racism. This was a particular, heightened circumstance at a particular period where you had the POTUS calling Covid the "China virus". More GOP BS to try and stoke anger, divisiveness, and divert from their ineptitude in the face of a once-in-a-lifetime crisis.

[Anonymous]

Every dem on this thread has criticized China. “Dems won’t criticize China” is a GOP talking point repeated so much people begin to think it’s true.

[Anonymous]

I remember someone (a bot?) was ridiculing me for believing the lab leak theory several years earlier, making me sound like a loon for just having these beliefs (and I am as pro-science as they come).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember someone (a bot?) was ridiculing me for believing the lab leak theory several years earlier, making me sound like a loon for just having these beliefs (and I am as pro-science as they come).

“Belief”
That was the problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

The lab leak theory was a worthless talking point meant to distract from anything productive. It didn’t save you from exposure. It didn’t trace cases. It didn’t help you get treated effectively. It didn’t supply PPE. It didn’t help the economy.
IT DID GET A BUNCH OF ASIAN PEOPLE PUNCHED.

Science isn’t talking points. Sorry it hurts your feelings to learn where the virus originated, but facts matter.

You didn’t have any facts then.
You had theories and talking points.
And it got Asian people hurt.
That’s who got hurt.

You sound unhinged. The facts are that people were asking about a lab leak theory at the time and it was dismissed even by public health professionals as a conspiracy theory and that it disrupted public trust when it was most needed. The fact is that the most likely source of origin of covid is a lab leak. THOSE are the facts, not your ridiculous accusations that people who followed the evidence wanted to punch Asian people. That’s just slander and frankly silly. Why are you so afraid of admitting this was a mistake? Everyone knows the suppression of the lab leak theory was an error. Open your eyes.

Quit being a lazy jerk and take 5 min to google the instances of violence perpetrated against innocent people because of irresponsible, and unproductive rhetoric by the people “ just asking questions” re: a lab leak. The facts are you had no facts. Because no one at the time had facts. And at the time it didn’t matter.

I don’t need to google to know that it’s unhinged to suggest that following the evidence to a lab leak as the origin of covid is responsible for punching Asians. Give it a rest. You don’t get to declare science off limits because some people were violent. That’s not healthy for society because it makes science off limits.

You are refusing to acknowledge that the GOP and their propaganda machine take anything they think will benefit them politically and twist it to suit their narrative, whomever it hurts be damned.

I am so sick of the discussions on here that pile all the Covid difficulties on Democrats, completely ignoring that the climate we exist in, the climate of winner-takes-all politics that eliminates all nuanced, realistic discussion and compromise to try and solve problems, is the product of decades of GOP propaganda beginning with Gringrich and his cronies.

You want real progress? You want real discussions of facts and solutions? You want real analysis of mistakes that were made, so that we can improve things. You need to vote out the GOP politicians who never, ever play fair and never, ever come to the table for good faith discussions.

Otherwise, take your anger and indignation and shove it.

Democrats didn't just push back against the lab release theory because of Trump. They also view any criticism of China as racism so dismiss it all out of hand. Saying a lab failure doesn't matter would be like saying using gas and chemical weapons during WW1 didn't matter because the bodies were already in the ground.

That is baloney. Dems don't view ANY criticism of China as racism. This was a particular, heightened circumstance at a particular period where you had the POTUS calling Covid the "China virus". More GOP BS to try and stoke anger, divisiveness, and divert from their ineptitude in the face of a once-in-a-lifetime crisis.

You don’t get memory hole when Trump decided to shut down flights from China in February 2020 and Pelosi had a tantrum calling it racist.

Then told people to head to SF Chinatown and eat out. Saying “fears are unwarranted in light of precautions being taken care of in the US. “.

Nancy basically called it a racist hoax in 2 February 2020. Read it and weep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

The lab leak theory was a worthless talking point meant to distract from anything productive. It didn’t save you from exposure. It didn’t trace cases. It didn’t help you get treated effectively. It didn’t supply PPE. It didn’t help the economy.
IT DID GET A BUNCH OF ASIAN PEOPLE PUNCHED.

Science isn’t talking points. Sorry it hurts your feelings to learn where the virus originated, but facts matter.

You didn’t have any facts then.
You had theories and talking points.
And it got Asian people hurt.
That’s who got hurt.

You sound unhinged. The facts are that people were asking about a lab leak theory at the time and it was dismissed even by public health professionals as a conspiracy theory and that it disrupted public trust when it was most needed. The fact is that the most likely source of origin of covid is a lab leak. THOSE are the facts, not your ridiculous accusations that people who followed the evidence wanted to punch Asian people. That’s just slander and frankly silly. Why are you so afraid of admitting this was a mistake? Everyone knows the suppression of the lab leak theory was an error. Open your eyes.

Quit being a lazy jerk and take 5 min to google the instances of violence perpetrated against innocent people because of irresponsible, and unproductive rhetoric by the people “ just asking questions” re: a lab leak. The facts are you had no facts. Because no one at the time had facts. And at the time it didn’t matter.

I don’t need to google to know that it’s unhinged to suggest that following the evidence to a lab leak as the origin of covid is responsible for punching Asians. Give it a rest. You don’t get to declare science off limits because some people were violent. That’s not healthy for society because it makes science off limits.

You are refusing to acknowledge that the GOP and their propaganda machine take anything they think will benefit them politically and twist it to suit their narrative, whomever it hurts be damned.

I am so sick of the discussions on here that pile all the Covid difficulties on Democrats, completely ignoring that the climate we exist in, the climate of winner-takes-all politics that eliminates all nuanced, realistic discussion and compromise to try and solve problems, is the product of decades of GOP propaganda beginning with Gringrich and his cronies.

You want real progress? You want real discussions of facts and solutions? You want real analysis of mistakes that were made, so that we can improve things. You need to vote out the GOP politicians who never, ever play fair and never, ever come to the table for good faith discussions.

Otherwise, take your anger and indignation and shove it.

Democrats didn't just push back against the lab release theory because of Trump. They also view any criticism of China as racism so dismiss it all out of hand. Saying a lab failure doesn't matter would be like saying using gas and chemical weapons during WW1 didn't matter because the bodies were already in the ground.

That is baloney. Dems don't view ANY criticism of China as racism. This was a particular, heightened circumstance at a particular period where you had the POTUS calling Covid the "China virus". More GOP BS to try and stoke anger, divisiveness, and divert from their ineptitude in the face of a once-in-a-lifetime crisis.

You don’t get memory hole when Trump decided to shut down flights from China in February 2020 and Pelosi had a tantrum calling it racist.

Then told people to head to SF Chinatown and eat out. Saying “fears are unwarranted in light of precautions being taken care of in the US. “.

Nancy basically called it a racist hoax in 2 February 2020. Read it and weep.

dp.. What I know is that Trump's use of the words "Chlna virus" and Conway's "K^ng Flu" caused a lot of racists to attack Asian Americans, including the doctors who tried to treat the covid patients. That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember someone (a bot?) was ridiculing me for believing the lab leak theory several years earlier, making me sound like a loon for just having these beliefs (and I am as pro-science as they come).

“Belief”
That was the problem

Ha! The familiar tactic of picking on the words of the message and dismissing the content, designed to shut down the opponent.