URMs Feeling Pressure to Prove Themselves

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS has had a similar experience. He looks white, but has a URM last name. When he has performed well at school, he’s had both teachers and fellow students say “I didn’t know you were smart.” He’s also been called a “fake” minority. It’s the worst of both worlds. Minorities don’t think he’s ethnic enough and whites automatically think he’s dumb.

It’s been an eye opener since college acceptances have been rolling in. People assume he’s been accepted to his schools bc of his ethnicity. When you look at naviance for his school, he’s in the green. The whole issue makes him incredibly self conscious and he doesn’t say anything.

I’m white and I 100% support preference for URM. DC’s in a world where people first assume he’s dumb just because of his name. And he doesn’t even “look” like a minority.

So what. I'm a woman and people are always shocked when they find out I'm smart. I was in a predominantly male dominated workplace for a dozen years. Even when I was in the chain of supervision, I was often mistaken for the secretary (who was a man, too, fwiw). Yet, I not longer get a preference. (If I were college aged).

[Anonymous]

But legacies will most likely live, and have lived, privileged lives. URMs have a high chance of encountering racism in their lives, along with some unseen barriers in the professional world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

Numbers don't lie.

I’m white. This chart actually shows that Black kids have SATs almost as high the SATs of the white kids and probably have a lot of test score overlap with the white kids, especially after you adjust for high school quality.

+1 and those test scores for Black students is top 0.5% as compared to the top 5% for white students.

But not Asian American kids. They have to outperform every other group, by a lot.

[Anonymous]

When Affirmative Action is removed, I worry White families might continue to feel their kids will be at a disadvantage. Going by scores alone, most elite schools will be filled with Asian American students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The side effect of AA is that people will always wonder if your child was accepted on their merits or if they were a diversity admit. It’s the kind of thing most people wonder but don’t say out loud. It astonishes me that people are actually saying this.

You’re something else. Even if you get in under AA, it’s just a small bump. You still need the other stats. My DC did not have high enough stats and did not get into a top school. My DC was still 34 ACT and good grades from a private school here with excellent ECs. URM alone is not enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When Affirmative Action is removed, I worry White families might continue to feel their kids will be at a disadvantage. Going by scores alone, most elite schools will be filled with Asian American students.

And URMs - DEI is replacing AA.

I am shocked more people do not know this. One thing is abolished, something similar takes its place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

Numbers don't lie.

I’m white. This chart actually shows that Black kids have SATs almost as high the SATs of the white kids and probably have a lot of test score overlap with the white kids, especially after you adjust for high school quality.

Why are you assuming that those black kids aren't coming from privates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

Numbers don't lie.

I’m white. This chart actually shows that Black kids have SATs almost as high the SATs of the white kids and probably have a lot of test score overlap with the white kids, especially after you adjust for high school quality.

Why are you assuming that those black kids aren't coming from privates?

+1 and have UMC educated parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

Numbers don't lie.

I’m white. This chart actually shows that Black kids have SATs almost as high the SATs of the white kids and probably have a lot of test score overlap with the white kids, especially after you adjust for high school quality.

Why are you assuming that those black kids aren't coming from privates?

+1 and have UMC educated parents?

fix.. "And don't have UMC educated parents"?

Around my neighborhood, we have several education, UMC black parents. They have more degrees combined from better univ than my spouse and I (not URM).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When Affirmative Action is removed, I worry White families might continue to feel their kids will be at a disadvantage. Going by scores alone, most elite schools will be filled with Asian American students.

I’ve thought about this. I won’t be upset, but I think Asians will outnumber whites at top colleges once AA is banned. At our private high, a high percentage of the top 20% is Asian. There are barely any Asians in the bottom 20%. Unless schools look at last names, Asian students are from the same background/area as white students, and on average, perform better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's terrible people say rude things. Your daughter sounds amazing. Congrats on her acceptances!

I sincerely doubt that anyone says what OP is claiming, and I’ve been active in both private and public high schools. No one says that

Sure they say that. Maybe not as much to their face. Kid in my high school got accepted to an Ivy, was ranked somewhere around 5 in the class. No one else in the class attended an Ivy or anything close.

When my daughter was applying to colleges we used to go over the Naviance graphs. The one ivy acceptance (Yale) in my kids school in the previous 3-4 years was from a kid of African immigrants. Had excellent grades (very close to a 4.0 UW) but a 1090 on the SAT (before TO). All of the other kids with a 4.0 and 1500+ SAT scores were rejected.

Similar situation at my kid's HS.

No one is getting admitted to Yale with a 1090 SAT.

Stop it.

DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is.

You must not know many smart URM kids at t25 schools because the majority of URM kids getting in these schools are just as accomplished and academically gifted. Most are not even AA (from Africa and the Caribbean) and can hold their own against any high stats group. My DC was waitlisted at our state flagship and ended up at a t20 with a 4.6 gpa (IB diploma) and competitive SATs (700+ high math score). My cousin’s DC has an almost perfect SAT score and was deferred from Princeton EA this year. Both have leadership and great ECs. My cousin’s kid is an athlete but admittedly no recruited for the sport. These are not first generation AA kids. They work hard and they are not taking your precious spots at any of these top schools.

No pressure over here on my child to prove anything to anyone. I wouldn’t about other people’s kids and focus on a good strategy for the success of my own child.

My kid works at one of the elite IBs and he had to interview (involves solving around 5 problems) some applicants for the summer analyst positions. He was told by the upper management to 'pass' and move forward black applicants if they can solve at least 1 problem (Hispanic applicants 2) while all others had to solve at least 3 and more likely 4 problems to move forward in the process. He was not successful in finding 1 black applicant who could move forward out of about a dozen candidates with about half URMs.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

Numbers don't lie.

I’m white. This chart actually shows that Black kids have SATs almost as high the SATs of the white kids and probably have a lot of test score overlap with the white kids, especially after you adjust for high school quality.

Why are you assuming that those black kids aren't coming from privates?

+1 and have UMC educated parents?

fix.. "And don't have UMC educated parents"?

Around my neighborhood, we have several education, UMC black parents. They have more degrees combined from better univ than my spouse and I (not URM).

Yet you still live in the same neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

Numbers don't lie.

I’m white. This chart actually shows that Black kids have SATs almost as high the SATs of the white kids and probably have a lot of test score overlap with the white kids, especially after you adjust for high school quality.

Why are you assuming that those black kids aren't coming from privates?

+1 and have UMC educated parents?

fix.. "And don't have UMC educated parents"?

Around my neighborhood, we have several education, UMC black parents. They have more degrees combined from better univ than my spouse and I (not URM).

Yet you still live in the same neighborhood.

Try selling the homes and see if you get the same appraisals / valuations.

Do that several times over a lifetime.

And people wonder why over educated and well to do black families aren't living in neighborhoods with their academic and professional peers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When Affirmative Action is removed, I worry White families might continue to feel their kids will be at a disadvantage. Going by scores alone, most elite schools will be filled with Asian American students.

White grievance is always there. Another boogeyman will be used when Affirmative Action is banned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

Numbers don't lie.

I’m white. This chart actually shows that Black kids have SATs almost as high the SATs of the white kids and probably have a lot of test score overlap with the white kids, especially after you adjust for high school quality.

Why are you assuming that those black kids aren't coming from privates?

+1 and have UMC educated parents?

fix.. "And don't have UMC educated parents"?

Around my neighborhood, we have several education, UMC black parents. They have more degrees combined from better univ than my spouse and I (not URM).

Yet you still live in the same neighborhood.

Try selling the homes and see if you get the same appraisals / valuations.

Do that several times over a lifetime.

And people wonder why over educated and well to do black families aren't living in neighborhoods with their academic and professional peers

? they do live in the same neighborhood as their peers. This is an educated area.