Federal judge rules that admissions changes at nation’s top public school discriminate against Asian

[Anonymous]

It also works the other way too. If charter schools are falling far behind, they can be held accountable too.

[Anonymous]

Crying OMG charter schools! They are going to kill public education...

This is hysterical melodrama by people blinded by ideology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Crying OMG charter schools! They are going to kill public education...

This is hysterical melodrama by people blinded by ideology.

Yes, only those blinded by greed and ideology believe that siphoning off funds from public education won't harm it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The public school system is getting too big. It is so corrupted.
Fairfax County should refund a portion of our property taxes so that we can send our kids to better schools.

lol

FCPS is STILL one of the top school systems in the nation by any measure.

And the minute you get vouchers, the price of private school tuition will skyrocket.

That's because most public school systems suck.

The worst public school systems exist in states that choose to defund public education.

It's a classic conservative refrain:

1) identify a public good that you wish to privatize and profit from;

2) remove critical taxpayer funding, making it extremely difficult for the program to succeed;

3) watch the program struggle and crumble;

4) offer a private option that, of course, is preferable because it is financially supported, but at a premium such that only a small percentage can afford it;

5) limit access to the public good to the wealthy and thus increase the performance gaps between rich and poor;

6) blame the poor for their failings and lionize the rich for their efforts;

7) reverse-justify the expenditure of taxpayer dollars to make the rich richer.

+10000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The public school system is getting too big. It is so corrupted.
Fairfax County should refund a portion of our property taxes so that we can send our kids to better schools.

lol

FCPS is STILL one of the top school systems in the nation by any measure.

And the minute you get vouchers, the price of private school tuition will skyrocket.

That's because most public school systems suck.

The worst public school systems exist in states that choose to defund public education.

It's a classic conservative refrain:

1) identify a public good that you wish to privatize and profit from;

2) remove critical taxpayer funding, making it extremely difficult for the program to succeed;

3) watch the program struggle and crumble;

4) offer a private option that, of course, is preferable because it is financially supported, but at a premium such that only a small percentage can afford it;

5) limit access to the public good to the wealthy and thus increase the performance gaps between rich and poor;

6) blame the poor for their failings and lionize the rich for their efforts;

7) reverse-justify the expenditure of taxpayer dollars to make the rich richer.

This is just plain as wrong as the conservatives you demonize.

There is a middle path. The thing is both left and right have a point. Truth is somewhere in between.

We need publicly well funded schools. No doubt. But they are sort of monopoly by definition.

We also need a small fraction say 10% to 20% of the students served by charter schools to provide competition as to student outcomes and operational performance measures. If public schools and charter schools are roughly performing the same we know it is likely working well. If public falls far behind charter they can be held accountable in whatever measure they are falling behind.

What is so wrong with this? Why so afraid of competition?

Charter schools are a bad idea because they take taxpayer dollars out of the public education system and put them in the pockets of the people who run the schools. Some of the money goes to educating the students, however effectively, but the people who run charter schools aren't doing it out of the goodness of their heart - they're doing it to make a profit.

I prefer that taxpayer dollars go 100% to educating students, and that's why the magnet, academy, and specialized school model in public education is so much more ethical than the charter or "school choice" model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The public school system is getting too big. It is so corrupted.
Fairfax County should refund a portion of our property taxes so that we can send our kids to better schools.

lol

FCPS is STILL one of the top school systems in the nation by any measure.

And the minute you get vouchers, the price of private school tuition will skyrocket.

That's because most public school systems suck.

The worst public school systems exist in states that choose to defund public education.

It's a classic conservative refrain:

1) identify a public good that you wish to privatize and profit from;

2) remove critical taxpayer funding, making it extremely difficult for the program to succeed;

3) watch the program struggle and crumble;

4) offer a private option that, of course, is preferable because it is financially supported, but at a premium such that only a small percentage can afford it;

5) limit access to the public good to the wealthy and thus increase the performance gaps between rich and poor;

6) blame the poor for their failings and lionize the rich for their efforts;

7) reverse-justify the expenditure of taxpayer dollars to make the rich richer.

Total BS.
DCPS spends one of the most $ per student in the US, and they are one of the worst.
Public schools need competition. Only commie like you think otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The public school system is getting too big. It is so corrupted.
Fairfax County should refund a portion of our property taxes so that we can send our kids to better schools.

lol

FCPS is STILL one of the top school systems in the nation by any measure.

And the minute you get vouchers, the price of private school tuition will skyrocket.

That's because most public school systems suck.

The worst public school systems exist in states that choose to defund public education.

It's a classic conservative refrain:

1) identify a public good that you wish to privatize and profit from;

2) remove critical taxpayer funding, making it extremely difficult for the program to succeed;

3) watch the program struggle and crumble;

4) offer a private option that, of course, is preferable because it is financially supported, but at a premium such that only a small percentage can afford it;

5) limit access to the public good to the wealthy and thus increase the performance gaps between rich and poor;

6) blame the poor for their failings and lionize the rich for their efforts;

7) reverse-justify the expenditure of taxpayer dollars to make the rich richer.

Total BS.
DCPS spends one of the most $ per student in the US, and they are one of the worst.
Public schools need competition. Only commie like you think otherwise.

DC has plenty of charter school competition. By your logic, it sounds like that competition is not working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The public school system is getting too big. It is so corrupted.
Fairfax County should refund a portion of our property taxes so that we can send our kids to better schools.

lol

FCPS is STILL one of the top school systems in the nation by any measure.

And the minute you get vouchers, the price of private school tuition will skyrocket.

That's because most public school systems suck.

The worst public school systems exist in states that choose to defund public education.

It's a classic conservative refrain:

1) identify a public good that you wish to privatize and profit from;

2) remove critical taxpayer funding, making it extremely difficult for the program to succeed;

3) watch the program struggle and crumble;

4) offer a private option that, of course, is preferable because it is financially supported, but at a premium such that only a small percentage can afford it;

5) limit access to the public good to the wealthy and thus increase the performance gaps between rich and poor;

6) blame the poor for their failings and lionize the rich for their efforts;

7) reverse-justify the expenditure of taxpayer dollars to make the rich richer.

This is just plain as wrong as the conservatives you demonize.

There is a middle path. The thing is both left and right have a point. Truth is somewhere in between.

We need publicly well funded schools. No doubt. But they are sort of monopoly by definition.

We also need a small fraction say 10% to 20% of the students served by charter schools to provide competition as to student outcomes and operational performance measures. If public schools and charter schools are roughly performing the same we know it is likely working well. If public falls far behind charter they can be held accountable in whatever measure they are falling behind.

What is so wrong with this? Why so afraid of competition?

Charter schools are a bad idea because they take taxpayer dollars out of the public education system and put them in the pockets of the people who run the schools. Some of the money goes to educating the students, however effectively, but the people who run charter schools aren't doing it out of the goodness of their heart - they're doing it to make a profit.

I prefer that taxpayer dollars go 100% to educating students, and that's why the magnet, academy, and specialized school model in public education is so much more ethical than the charter or "school choice" model.

People who run FCPS aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They are racists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The public school system is getting too big. It is so corrupted.
Fairfax County should refund a portion of our property taxes so that we can send our kids to better schools.

lol

FCPS is STILL one of the top school systems in the nation by any measure.

And the minute you get vouchers, the price of private school tuition will skyrocket.

That's because most public school systems suck.

The worst public school systems exist in states that choose to defund public education.

It's a classic conservative refrain:

1) identify a public good that you wish to privatize and profit from;

2) remove critical taxpayer funding, making it extremely difficult for the program to succeed;

3) watch the program struggle and crumble;

4) offer a private option that, of course, is preferable because it is financially supported, but at a premium such that only a small percentage can afford it;

5) limit access to the public good to the wealthy and thus increase the performance gaps between rich and poor;

6) blame the poor for their failings and lionize the rich for their efforts;

7) reverse-justify the expenditure of taxpayer dollars to make the rich richer.

This is just plain as wrong as the conservatives you demonize.

There is a middle path. The thing is both left and right have a point. Truth is somewhere in between.

We need publicly well funded schools. No doubt. But they are sort of monopoly by definition.

We also need a small fraction say 10% to 20% of the students served by charter schools to provide competition as to student outcomes and operational performance measures. If public schools and charter schools are roughly performing the same we know it is likely working well. If public falls far behind charter they can be held accountable in whatever measure they are falling behind.

What is so wrong with this? Why so afraid of competition?

Charter schools are a bad idea because they take taxpayer dollars out of the public education system and put them in the pockets of the people who run the schools. Some of the money goes to educating the students, however effectively, but the people who run charter schools aren't doing it out of the goodness of their heart - they're doing it to make a profit.

I prefer that taxpayer dollars go 100% to educating students, and that's why the magnet, academy, and specialized school model in public education is so much more ethical than the charter or "school choice" model.

People who run FCPS aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They are racists.

This is an assertion that people keep making without adequate evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The public school system is getting too big. It is so corrupted.
Fairfax County should refund a portion of our property taxes so that we can send our kids to better schools.

lol

FCPS is STILL one of the top school systems in the nation by any measure.

And the minute you get vouchers, the price of private school tuition will skyrocket.

That's because most public school systems suck.

The worst public school systems exist in states that choose to defund public education.

It's a classic conservative refrain:

1) identify a public good that you wish to privatize and profit from;

2) remove critical taxpayer funding, making it extremely difficult for the program to succeed;

3) watch the program struggle and crumble;

4) offer a private option that, of course, is preferable because it is financially supported, but at a premium such that only a small percentage can afford it;

5) limit access to the public good to the wealthy and thus increase the performance gaps between rich and poor;

6) blame the poor for their failings and lionize the rich for their efforts;

7) reverse-justify the expenditure of taxpayer dollars to make the rich richer.

Total BS.
DCPS spends one of the most $ per student in the US, and they are one of the worst.
Public schools need competition. Only commie like you think otherwise.

DC has plenty of charter school competition. By your logic, it sounds like that competition is not working.

and everyone knows how amazing DC schools are...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crying OMG charter schools! They are going to kill public education...

This is hysterical melodrama by people blinded by ideology.

Yes, only those blinded by greed and ideology believe that siphoning off funds from public education won't harm it.

You would right at home in USSR. Isn't that their policy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

The reality is people like you always blame others for your actions.

Or will say just about anything in the hope of returning to a system that was easily gamed.

Not true. The Lazy one still can not game it.

True, but those of us willing to invest $20k in prep over a period of years sure could.

Now, the admission staff can be bribed with $20k.

Yeah, school staff now can get some side hustles.

Do you have any proof of this or is it just wishful thinking? Before most of the class bought their way in through the prep centers. If there is anything funny going on now (which seems doubtful) at least it's a small percentage compared to the broken system it replaced.

This was a huge scandal. Please just Google it. The company posted documents online proving that they were responsible for a disproportionate number of TJ admits, relative to other prep centers. You clearly haven’t been following the story, which is fine. Just don’t snap at people who have been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the Asian that was discriminated against?

The only named plaintiff parent in the Coalition for TJ who was actually Asian was the mother of two TJ students at the time that the case was taken up. One of those two students had been admitted by the old process, and the other had been admitted by the new process. She was nominally listed in the case on behalf of her third child, who has since ALSO been admitted by the new process.

The other named plaintiff is very publicly a current candidate for the School Board. Go figure.

Makes you think.

That’s pathetic. Those parents and the Pacific Legal Foundation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They are fighting racism. Jane Doe of Roe v. Wade didn’t drop her case after her baby was born.

They're fighting to institutionalize racism. If one policy is inclusive and the other is exclusive, and you're fighting for the one that is exclusive, you're the racist.

It is not exclusive.

It is manifestly exclusive. Less than 1% of incoming TJ classes for decades have come from economically disadvantaged families and there had not been enough Black students at TJ under the prior admissions process to fill a single graduating class after 33 years.

That is the definition of exclusive, if not de jure, then certainly de facto. And what the PLF is currently trying to convince the federal courts of is that the new admissions process engages in de facto discrimination against Asian students, when the evidence for such is FAR less clear than the obvious evidence of de facto segregation/discrimination under the previous process.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

If the operative term here is going to be “disparate impact”, there is approximately a thousand times more evidence to convict the prior admissions process of DI against poor kids and Black/Hispanic kids than there is with which to accuse the current admissions process of DI against Asians.

If you can’t do the math on that one, your claims of Asian supremacy are even more unfounded than I previously thought.

No one is claiming Asian supremacy. Only you people cry about "your kind" lives matter.
Don't always blame the system when you can not compete. You don't need a lot of money to get high score on exams like PSAT. Just grab a couple barron's PSAT books and study them.

More than anything, standardized exams measure test taking ability.

Test taking ability is not a translatable skill in any field beyond academic admissions processes.

So why in the world do we continue to emphasize them as some kind of measuring stick of ability when their utility can be so easily compromised through buying expensive prep materials?

Although it is not perfect, standardized exam is the most reliable and objective measurement tool that we have.
What is "test taking ability"? You need to master the subject materials well in order to get a good score.
"expensive prep materials"? Really, $15 a piece. I guess, driving a fancy car has more priority.

In short, stop playing victimhood on everything.

If $15 prep books were adequate to prepare kids for the old TJ admissions exams, you wouldn’t have had parents spending thousands of dollars on what Curie was offering.

In short, stop intentionally burying your head in the sand and engage with reality.

What is Curie? Marie Curie, the twice Nobel prize winner?

Curie is the TJ student factory that wealthy families use to ensure their offspring have the best chance at admission

Curie is counter productive and a massive waste of time.

You dont know why people send to Curie. A close family friend sent their kid to Curie for TJ prep. Even though they had concrete plans to go back to India and they did go back to India for high school.

I used to ask them why they are going to TJ Prep when they are not planning on going to TJ. Their response was it was nice academic supplement to school learning math, reading, writing, etc. That the process of preparing for TJ itself is a good way to learn these things. Also, if the kid is at home, they are going to be on screens anyway, so why not take TJ Prep.

I tried to convince them that there are better alternatives to supplement and why Curie in particular is the wrong way to go about it.

I am Indian. I understand where many of these parents are coming from. There is a certain amount of FOMO. If every kid on the street is going to Curie, they think it is better to send their kid too.

I personally have a different philosophy. As does my child who would not even take SAT practice test considering it an inefficient use of their time. Took the SAT cold without any prep.

I am bringing this up so you understand that there are different motivations of why people do what they do.