get over name brand / prestige obsession

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Your anecdotes don't change the overall statistics. You also can't detach the name brand from the people who attend the top schools. Statistically those are people more driven, hard working, and intelligent.

This is quite a huge fallacy. So many of these students are at "top schools" because of luck and the situations they were born into - wealth and privilege and entitlement.

Sure. To an extent. But a majority of my Biglaw partners did not come from these circumstances. There is a good subset who did but not the majority. Same is true in 2021 of other jobs mentioned here -- Are there a good number of people in the Wall Street training programs that were UMC or higher. Sure. But a substantial number were also MC or lower. They do recruit from the same elite schools. They are not only open to UMC. It is one of the reasons to try to get to go to one of those schools and is one of the reasons OPs original post is wrong.

I'm confused. OP said that, fast forward, her kids are "happy and successful" but that their friends who did not go to top school are "happy and successful" too. OP didn't say "my kids are now in Biglaw and Wall Street but so are their friends who sent to lesser schools."

I think we can all agree that it's easier to land on Wall Street or Biglaw from a top school. But there are lots of other avenues to "success," including financial success. You need to look outside of your bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These posts that say you just HAVE to go to a top school because that’s where the I-banks and consulting companies and corporate law firms recruit are really cracking me up.

Raise your hand if, like me, you would be terribly disappointed if your child became one of those things.

Law is not relevant; while prestige of the law school is critical for certain types of law jobs, prestige of undergrad does not matter for that particular purpose.

If my child is self-supporting and satisfied, I would not be disappointed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These posts that say you just HAVE to go to a top school because that’s where the I-banks and consulting companies and corporate law firms recruit are really cracking me up.

Raise your hand if, like me, you would be terribly disappointed if your child became one of those things.

+1.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Your anecdotes don't change the overall statistics. You also can't detach the name brand from the people who attend the top schools. Statistically those are people more driven, hard working, and intelligent.

This is quite a huge fallacy. So many of these students are at "top schools" because of luck and the situations they were born into - wealth and privilege and entitlement.

Sure. To an extent. But a majority of my Biglaw partners did not come from these circumstances. There is a good subset who did but not the majority. Same is true in 2021 of other jobs mentioned here -- Are there a good number of people in the Wall Street training programs that were UMC or higher. Sure. But a substantial number were also MC or lower. They do recruit from the same elite schools. They are not only open to UMC. It is one of the reasons to try to get to go to one of those schools and is one of the reasons OPs original post is wrong.

I'm confused. OP said that, fast forward, her kids are "happy and successful" but that their friends who did not go to top school are "happy and successful" too. OP didn't say "my kids are now in Biglaw and Wall Street but so are their friends who sent to lesser schools."

I think we can all agree that it's easier to land on Wall Street or Biglaw from a top school. But there are lots of other avenues to "success," including financial success. You need to look outside of your bubble.

You need to look within the bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly the only prestige universities that actually could benefit you for life are harvard and Yale . I know quite a few people who went to “lesser” ivies and are no better off than if they went to Towson.

This is so not true. Georgia Tech would be better. Boston College. Duke. Vanderbilt. All would benefit a student more than Towson if they take advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking back, one of my biggest regrets/missteps as a parent was putting way too much pressure on my kids to excel in school with the goal of getting into top colleges. The pressure worked, and they did do well and go "name brand," but fast forward a few years and it really didn't make much of a difference. They're all happy and successful, but so are their friends who didn't do as well as they did and didn't end up at top schools. Time is proving to be the great equalizer.

Just something for parents to keep in mind when they're still in the midst of things. I realize I'm probably preaching to the wrong crowd.

You are preaching to the wrong crowd because there are plenty of folks here who DID attend the top schools and know first hand the myriad advantages to having done so.

Also as you have clearly not attended a top school yourself, your children are also less likely to do so because the apple does not fall far from the tree. Despite the occasional genius outlier, it ain't happening for you regardless of the pressure you did or did not put on your kids.

Now stop wasting everyone's time and go away.

+1. I attended a top school. The main advantage is that you never have to work hard again. All the great opportunities just show up because of who you know.

IME, it’s generally white people who say the stuff OP says, and that’s because they don’t recognize their white privilege. Yes, if you’re white, it doesn’t matter which school you go to, because all the doors are open to you already. If you’re non-white, going to a top school makes you aware of the kind of life white people enjoy as their birthright.

Most white people did not attend elite colleges . In fact they did not graduate from college. You are in a bubble that you think everyone else white shares...but you are wrong. Read Hillbilly Eulogy, and get back to me.

Wish that typo were accurate....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:**takes notes in Harvard portfolio with Columbia pen**

Weird flex but ok? I have an MIT sweatshirt and a Harvard shirt and a Yale law pencil.

Well I have a Princeton mug, a Yale Law sweatshirt, a Harvard Kennedy School needlepoint kay fob, AND a Dartmouth/Tuck baseball cap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I think it makes a difference if you go to a tippy top school. Other than that, the next T50 don’t matter as much. The difference between a school like Tufts or Vanderbilt, say, is negligible even though Vandy is higher ranked. They are both great schools.

I there is another difference once you start past the T100 school. You may have more opportunities graduating from Emory than Appalachian, for instance.

But if you are talking T15-T50, it makes no difference.

You didn't understand my post at all. How old are your kids?

What are you talking about? The pp is spot on.

Sigh. I give up. Clearly you're still in the midst of all of this. Y'all can just go ahead and split hairs between schools and tiers like you always do. As I said, I should have known I was preaching to the wrong crowd.

I'm out.

Just look at the salary outcomes from the school and it obvious that IN GENERAL, higher ranked schools produce better outcomes.

You are mixing up correlation and causation. And also salaries aren't everything.

I don't have kids but I wish I'd had more of OP's attitude when I was deciding on college and law school. There's a lot more to life than going to the most prestigious college you can get into. A LOT. Also I think for a lot of us, some time out of the pressure cooker would give us the freedom to actually figure out what we like instead of just trying to run that same old race.

not really, try getting a prestigious job (whatever that may be in your chosen field) coming out of Princeton vs. UVA/UMD vs. Longwood. By the time you get down to Longwood, good luck

In the DMV, there are far more grads from JMU, Longwood, UMW and the like employed in high-level government, consulting, banking, and IT positions than from Princeton or UVA. Just look at your neighbors. What a narrow view from the ivory tower?

are you saying that prestigious banking and consulting firms recruit at longwood like they do at Priceton or even UVA?

In my field, I think of the Carlyle group as that top. https://www.carlyle.com/our-people You can scroll though and see where their officers and directors went to school. I see a lot of IVY, state flagships, some SLACS, a few prestigious foreign universities, but no JMU, Longwood, UMW

That's not entirely true. At the lower levels, Carlyle has a chunk of its Fund Management team come form W&M, JMU, and the like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly the only prestige universities that actually could benefit you for life are harvard and Yale . I know quite a few people who went to “lesser” ivies and are no better off than if they went to Towson.

Are you the crazy SFS mom from a few years ago who ran Patrick out? That phrase sounds awful familiar...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:**takes notes in Harvard portfolio with Columbia pen**

Weird flex but ok? I have an MIT sweatshirt and a Harvard shirt and a Yale law pencil.

Well I have a Princeton mug, a Yale Law sweatshirt, a Harvard Kennedy School needlepoint kay fob, AND a Dartmouth/Tuck baseball cap

I have a Cornell mug like Andy from The Office so I’m the clear winner of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looking back, one of my biggest regrets/missteps as a parent was putting way too much pressure on my kids to excel in school with the goal of getting into top colleges. The pressure worked, and they did do well and go "name brand," but fast forward a few years and it really didn't make much of a difference. They're all happy and successful, but so are their friends who didn't do as well as they did and didn't end up at top schools. Time is proving to be the great equalizer.

Just something for parents to keep in mind when they're still in the midst of things. I realize I'm probably preaching to the wrong crowd.

Yes, you are preaching to the wrong crowd.

My kid went to a no-name college that DCUMland sneers at.

But, four years later, she ended up in an extremely competitive grad program where she's doing very well.

There are brilliant kids at every college, even CC. Look around, and you'll find them.

Read Excellent Sheep https://www.amazon.com/Excellent-Sheep-Miseducation-American-Meaningful/dp/1476702721 for more info about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Your anecdotes don't change the overall statistics. You also can't detach the name brand from the people who attend the top schools. Statistically those are people more driven, hard working, and intelligent.

This is quite a huge fallacy. So many of these students are at "top schools" because of luck and the situations they were born into - wealth and privilege and entitlement.

Yeah, Jared Kushner is a prime example of this. What an incompetent loser. And his father bought his seat at Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly the only prestige universities that actually could benefit you for life are harvard and Yale . I know quite a few people who went to “lesser” ivies and are no better off than if they went to Towson.

This is so not true. Georgia Tech would be better. Boston College. Duke. Vanderbilt. All would benefit a student more than Towson if they take advantage.

A few of my friends went to Harvard. One is a very rich lawyer who hates law, one is a doctor, one is a teacher. None of them credits Harvard for their success. All three say they disliked Harvard and wish they'd gone to a smaller, less prestigious college with an emphasis on learning, like Swarthmore or Haverford.

The richest person I know didn't even get through college. He dropped out junior year, started his own business, and now is extremely wealthy. He's super smart, well-read and interesting, but he doesn't credit college for his success either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly the only prestige universities that actually could benefit you for life are harvard and Yale . I know quite a few people who went to “lesser” ivies and are no better off than if they went to Towson.

This is so not true. Georgia Tech would be better. Boston College. Duke. Vanderbilt. All would benefit a student more than Towson if they take advantage.

A few of my friends went to Harvard. One is a very rich lawyer who hates law, one is a doctor, one is a teacher. None of them credits Harvard for their success. All three say they disliked Harvard and wish they'd gone to a smaller, less prestigious college with an emphasis on learning, like Swarthmore or Haverford.

The richest person I know didn't even get through college. He dropped out junior year, started his own business, and now is extremely wealthy. He's super smart, well-read and interesting, but he doesn't credit college for his success either.

Why are you here?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the thread, OP. My kids have a few years to go before college (and one of them wants to be a mime, so maybe more “performing arts school” will be what she wants to do) but this is really helpful to think of. I’ve seen a variation of this message on here before but it’s one that really bears repetition.

Even if my kids could or did get into a big name fancy pants school, I think we sort of bear the mark of our half in our working class past, half out socio economic group. That is to say that I don’t think they’d benefit as much from the social connections and networking. I just hope that they find a school that fits them well and will really help them come into their own as adults.