Lapsed Catholics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason I like the structure and dogma is that it is something I can aim at a work on weekly. The reason I don’t like the people is because they are not nice and it doesn’t seem like the fruits of their labor are actually good.

All the people?

No, but unfortunately there are too many bad apples to make it a healthy place. You can't get away from them easily.

Every church? Everywhere?

Can you name a church with no bad apples? I’d like to go.

I think the sex abuse in the church and the cover-up by the priests and parishioners along with the haughty attitude towards others is just not worth my time to show up. I can worship God without them being in my face.

If you claim to be Catholic, this is not true. Corporate worship and participation in the Eucharistic sacrifice are intrinsic to Catholicism.

You really need to get your head out of an old theology book and take a look around you. Stop parroting centuries-old philosophical musings and objectively look at how the Church today in 2022 relates to people and ministers (or fails to minister) to their needs. People want trust. People want relationships. People want spiritual food. People want hope. Shoving dusty philosophical tenets down people's throats while using lofty words that are unrelatable to many will only drive more and more people away.

The essential truths about God (who is truth itself, and unchangeable) are eternal. I don’t know how anyone would get all that trust, relationship, hope and spiritual food you mention if they are not in a group environment as opposed to sitting at home and worshiping alone. The Eucharist IS the spiritual food you claim to want. Your comprehension of these matters seems extremely superficial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I come from a large Irish Catholic family, though my mom was a young widow and I was an only child. My mom had a college degree, somewhat unusual for her time, but it was from a Catholic women’s college. I attended Catholic school until college, though my mom very much wanted me to attend the college she had.

Sooooo many things my mom, family, Catholic school and church did made me want to leave. The list is too long. But whatever Catholic doctrine applied to any given situation, you’d better believe we followed it. Only now, at age 58, do I have the understanding that I was raised in a cult-like environment.

DH is not Catholic. We baptized our kids as such because my mom would have disowned me otherwise. Frankly, the only reason I got away with marrying a non-Catholic is because DH is a charming guy. Mom loved him.

In my extended family, relatives were disowned upon divorce. My devout aunt and uncle missed YEARS of knowing their first grandchild, who was born out of wedlock.

My biggest regret is that I never had the freedom to choose religion for myself, nor could I raise my kids outside the church. We did baptism, confession, and communion for all 4 of our kids, but my mom was in her 90s and not aware of our household happenings as much, so we skipped confirmation for the 4th.

I was robbed from having any freedom of thought or action until I was much older and realized how the cultlike environment of my upbringing had directed so many aspects of my life.

At my mom’s funeral, I turned around and looked inside the cathedral as we left. Barring any wedding that I feel I’ simply must attend, I vowed on the spot that I would never set foot in a Catholic Church again. And I haven’t.

Just don’t raise your kids with edicts regarding religion, whatever religion you may practice. Catholicism has a LOT of them.

It’s a shame that you seem never to have learned why the teachings are what they are, so that you could develop an adult Faith and not merely react to what you perceived externally as “edicts.”

Is there any way that people can post here without you trying to tear them down? It's specifically a thread for lapsed Catholics. Start your own thread for what did you parents do to help you with your religion and get off this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For DH, who grew up very Catholic (several of his aunts are nuns) it was going to college and becoming sexually active that drove him from being a practicing Catholic. And then when the church abuse scandal broke and he saw the church's reaction, he totally broke from them and really started badmouthing them to anyone who will listen.

In fact, all his siblings left the Catholic church.

Then, after his brother died, DH's parents also stopped going.

We ultimately became Presbyterian.

I don't think there is anything parents can do. The structure and dogna of the Catholics is what drives people away.

“The structure and [sic] dogna of the Catholics is what drives people away.”

Nonsense. People’s own choices “drive” them away just as surely as if they got into their own car, started the engine, and left the parking lot. Blaming the Church for personal decisions to reject its beliefs, deny the reality of sin in one’s own life, seek the grace of repentance and be absolved is the fundamental hypocrisy that appears over and over in these pages. To reject “dogma,” one has to understand it, and people who have left the Church over legitimate dogmatic differences that they can intelligently articulate are few and far between. People stop practicing do so in large part because they enjoy their sins, don’t want to stop, feel guilty about it, and decide to blame somebody else instead of taking responsibility for their own actions. The sex scandals, to which Presbyterians and other religious and secular organizations are hardly immune, is another false excuse.

Well isn't that special.

I have a great relationship with God and Jesus. Do you think Jesus needs everyone to be Catholic? He accepts, welcomes and lifts up everyone regardless of where they are on their journey. People like you who gatekeep and are obsessed with the ridiculous secret handshakes of a man-made institution that was designed to control are why I and many others are "lapsed". Judge on, no one cares and you will do so alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For DH, who grew up very Catholic (several of his aunts are nuns) it was going to college and becoming sexually active that drove him from being a practicing Catholic. And then when the church abuse scandal broke and he saw the church's reaction, he totally broke from them and really started badmouthing them to anyone who will listen.

In fact, all his siblings left the Catholic church.

Then, after his brother died, DH's parents also stopped going.

We ultimately became Presbyterian.

I don't think there is anything parents can do. The structure and dogna of the Catholics is what drives people away.

“The structure and [sic] dogna of the Catholics is what drives people away.”

Nonsense. People’s own choices “drive” them away just as surely as if they got into their own car, started the engine, and left the parking lot. Blaming the Church for personal decisions to reject its beliefs, deny the reality of sin in one’s own life, seek the grace of repentance and be absolved is the fundamental hypocrisy that appears over and over in these pages. To reject “dogma,” one has to understand it, and people who have left the Church over legitimate dogmatic differences that they can intelligently articulate are few and far between. People stop practicing do so in large part because they enjoy their sins, don’t want to stop, feel guilty about it, and decide to blame somebody else instead of taking responsibility for their own actions. The sex scandals, to which Presbyterians and other religious and secular organizations are hardly immune, is another false excuse.

Well isn't that special.

I have a great relationship with God and Jesus. Do you think Jesus needs everyone to be Catholic? He accepts, welcomes and lifts up everyone regardless of where they are on their journey. People like you who gatekeep and are obsessed with the ridiculous secret handshakes of a man-made institution that was designed to control are why I and many others are "lapsed". Judge on, no one cares and you will do so alone.

I think God wants people to find the fullness of truth, which ultimately is God himself. Catholics believe, and with good reason, that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ himself on the Apostles, whose successors today are the bishops in apostolic succession. You are correct that all salvation comes through Christ; this is fundamental Catholic teaching. You are incorrect that the Catholic Church is any more “man made” than any of the multitude of Protestant denominations, the origin of which can readily be traced to human decisions, often political, to leave the Catholic Church. I don’t judge the state of anyone’s soul or relationship with God, who meets people where they are and who wants all to be saved. I do hope that people who criticize, malign and reject Catholic teachings would stop claiming they are motivated by some substantial disagreement on matters of doctrine. The fact is that most “lapsed” Catholics have never educated themselves about the foundations of what they claim to reject, couldn’t begin to explain why they claim it is “wrong,” and are “leaving” an imposter Catholic Church that exists primarily in their own mind.

Read some St. Paul. Catholic doctrine and practice are not “designed to control.” They are aimed at making available true freedom, as compared to the slavery of sin. Even Presbyterians recognize this as the goal of Faith. Indeed, their doctrine of “absolute depravity” would call into question even more than Catholic doctrine the reliability of unguided human decision and understanding as they relate to divine matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I come from a large Irish Catholic family, though my mom was a young widow and I was an only child. My mom had a college degree, somewhat unusual for her time, but it was from a Catholic women’s college. I attended Catholic school until college, though my mom very much wanted me to attend the college she had.

Sooooo many things my mom, family, Catholic school and church did made me want to leave. The list is too long. But whatever Catholic doctrine applied to any given situation, you’d better believe we followed it. Only now, at age 58, do I have the understanding that I was raised in a cult-like environment.

DH is not Catholic. We baptized our kids as such because my mom would have disowned me otherwise. Frankly, the only reason I got away with marrying a non-Catholic is because DH is a charming guy. Mom loved him.

In my extended family, relatives were disowned upon divorce. My devout aunt and uncle missed YEARS of knowing their first grandchild, who was born out of wedlock.

My biggest regret is that I never had the freedom to choose religion for myself, nor could I raise my kids outside the church. We did baptism, confession, and communion for all 4 of our kids, but my mom was in her 90s and not aware of our household happenings as much, so we skipped confirmation for the 4th.

I was robbed from having any freedom of thought or action until I was much older and realized how the cultlike environment of my upbringing had directed so many aspects of my life.

At my mom’s funeral, I turned around and looked inside the cathedral as we left. Barring any wedding that I feel I’ simply must attend, I vowed on the spot that I would never set foot in a Catholic Church again. And I haven’t.

Just don’t raise your kids with edicts regarding religion, whatever religion you may practice. Catholicism has a LOT of them.

It’s a shame that you seem never to have learned why the teachings are what they are, so that you could develop an adult Faith and not merely react to what you perceived externally as “edicts.”

Is there any way that people can post here without you trying to tear them down? It's specifically a thread for lapsed Catholics. Start your own thread for what did you parents do to help you with your religion and get off this one.

I’m not “tearing down” anyone. I simply object to people blaming the Church and its doctrines for their own choices to “lapse” in their Catholic practice. It seems you would prefer an echo chamber.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is there any way that people can post here without you trying to tear them down? It's specifically a thread for lapsed Catholics. Start your own thread for what did you parents do to help you with your religion and get off this one.

I’m not “tearing down” anyone. I simply object to people blaming the Church and its doctrines for their own choices to “lapse” in their Catholic practice. It seems you would prefer an echo chamber.

In my experience as an old Catholic coot, it's more common to lapse due to "people issues" than doctrinal ones. (There are exceptions, of course).

Keep in mind that Jesus had both a "cleansing the Temple" mode and a "woman caught in adultery" mode. We should, too. Sometimes people may need a good kick in the pants, it's true, but other times they need a hug. Administering the former when they need the latter will drive them away from Jesus and His Church, not bring them closer.

[Anonymous]

My parents were very devout and not at all hypocritical about it. As was my grandmother. It's part of why it has been really really hard for me to leave the Church. I used to teach CCD with my mom.

I do have some general crisis of faith issues generally that go beyond the church, but then I have specific issues with the church. I have a bi daughter. She does not feel welcome, so that's part of my issue. My larger issue is that I feel like the church has largely ignored its social justice calling, and totally sold itself out to the anti-abortion right wing activists. The fact that over half of American catholics voted for Trump, and the fact that we have a majority Supreme Court that is entirely hostile to the interests of the poor and disenfranchised tells me that the Church has totally lost its way as far as guiding its flock. That's focused on the American church, but I also just cannot wrap my head around the Vatican still not accepting birth control, which is so fundamental to keeping families out of poverty and allowing women to lead lives of some independence and significance. The birth control thing is really fundamental for me.

So, to answer your question -- there is nothing my parents could have done better to keep me in the church. There's some stuff the Pope(s) could have done differently, and the USCCB.

It makes me really, really, really sad, but this is where I am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is there any way that people can post here without you trying to tear them down? It's specifically a thread for lapsed Catholics. Start your own thread for what did you parents do to help you with your religion and get off this one.

I’m not “tearing down” anyone. I simply object to people blaming the Church and its doctrines for their own choices to “lapse” in their Catholic practice. It seems you would prefer an echo chamber.

In my experience as an old Catholic coot, it's more common to lapse due to "people issues" than doctrinal ones. (There are exceptions, of course).

Keep in mind that Jesus had both a "cleansing the Temple" mode and a "woman caught in adultery" mode. We should, too. Sometimes people may need a good kick in the pants, it's true, but other times they need a hug. Administering the former when they need the latter will drive them away from Jesus and His Church, not bring them closer.

These are superb observations. They embody precisely the “accompaniment” Pope Francis writes about of meeting people where they are and helping them to a better life and a greater appreciation of religious truth. It is a shame (even a scandal) that at least in some places it’s not easy to find somebody who will deal charitably with questions and challenges. One of the best people I ever knew was turned away when she wanted to become Catholic, by a self-described “pastoral” priest who simply didn’t want to be bothered trying to sort out her marital issues. At the same time, it can be tough to make people feel welcome to keep coming while they work out their issues when what they really want is to have the Church abolish for their convenience what it believes is divine dogma supplemented by thousands of years of debate, analysis and prayer by brilliant minds and holy souls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My parents were very devout and not at all hypocritical about it. As was my grandmother. It's part of why it has been really really hard for me to leave the Church. I used to teach CCD with my mom.

I do have some general crisis of faith issues generally that go beyond the church, but then I have specific issues with the church. I have a bi daughter. She does not feel welcome, so that's part of my issue. My larger issue is that I feel like the church has largely ignored its social justice calling, and totally sold itself out to the anti-abortion right wing activists. The fact that over half of American catholics voted for Trump, and the fact that we have a majority Supreme Court that is entirely hostile to the interests of the poor and disenfranchised tells me that the Church has totally lost its way as far as guiding its flock. That's focused on the American church, but I also just cannot wrap my head around the Vatican still not accepting birth control, which is so fundamental to keeping families out of poverty and allowing women to lead lives of some independence and significance. The birth control thing is really fundamental for me.

So, to answer your question -- there is nothing my parents could have done better to keep me in the church. There's some stuff the Pope(s) could have done differently, and the USCCB.

It makes me really, really, really sad, but this is where I am.

Have you studied Humanae Vitae? The Declaration on Sexual Ethics? Looked into the enormous charity work the Church does?

One of the greatest spiritual traps for the unwary is to become confused between religious practice and the virtue of religion on one hand and what largely are intellectual and socio-political matters on the other. If the Supreme Court is, as you propose, “entirely hostile to the interests of the poor and disenfranchised,” that would not accord in any way with the Church’s teaching on charity or its vast body of social teachings going back at least to Pope Leo XIII. Insisting that artificial birth control is the only way to keep “ families out of poverty and allowing women to lead lives of some independence and significance” seems disingenuous. People aren’t barnyard animals devoid of reason, and it is quite apparent that an anti-life culture (the USSR for example) is more than willing to profess putative “reproductive freedom” to more fully exploit women (and men) for its own purposes.

I feel this great disappointment in your post, and I wonder if there is more to your dissatisfaction with your personal religious experience than the issues you cite. While you seem motivated by charitable feelings, the people you mention are not you. Their relationship with God and with the Church is not yours. Cutting yourself off from what seems to have been a source of life and hope seems ill-conceived and based more on intellectual, social and emotional matters than on spiritual discernment. I’m not a giant booster of the current edition of the Jesuits, but some of them are quite skilled at helping people work through such things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is there any way that people can post here without you trying to tear them down? It's specifically a thread for lapsed Catholics. Start your own thread for what did you parents do to help you with your religion and get off this one.

I’m not “tearing down” anyone. I simply object to people blaming the Church and its doctrines for their own choices to “lapse” in their Catholic practice. It seems you would prefer an echo chamber.

In my experience as an old Catholic coot, it's more common to lapse due to "people issues" than doctrinal ones. (There are exceptions, of course).

Keep in mind that Jesus had both a "cleansing the Temple" mode and a "woman caught in adultery" mode. We should, too. Sometimes people may need a good kick in the pants, it's true, but other times they need a hug. Administering the former when they need the latter will drive them away from Jesus and His Church, not bring them closer.

The issue with the woman caught in adultery was that she was going to be killed and so it wasn't a correct atonement not to mention who knows what those people did themselves. He didn't say adultery is ok. Just that stoning was a bit much for it.
The issue with the temple was that he told them they needed to leave the church space. No one got killed. He merely didn't like that bad behavior was taking place on church ground and got angry at them. That seemed a suitable response to people knowingly behaving badly at a sacred space. Just go somewhere else. He didn't stop them.

If Jesus can cleanse the outside of the temple, why can't other people want to cleanse the inside of the temple?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is there any way that people can post here without you trying to tear them down? It's specifically a thread for lapsed Catholics. Start your own thread for what did you parents do to help you with your religion and get off this one.

I’m not “tearing down” anyone. I simply object to people blaming the Church and its doctrines for their own choices to “lapse” in their Catholic practice. It seems you would prefer an echo chamber.

In my experience as an old Catholic coot, it's more common to lapse due to "people issues" than doctrinal ones. (There are exceptions, of course).

Keep in mind that Jesus had both a "cleansing the Temple" mode and a "woman caught in adultery" mode. We should, too. Sometimes people may need a good kick in the pants, it's true, but other times they need a hug. Administering the former when they need the latter will drive them away from Jesus and His Church, not bring them closer.

The issue with the woman caught in adultery was that she was going to be killed and so it wasn't a correct atonement not to mention who knows what those people did themselves. He didn't say adultery is ok. Just that stoning was a bit much for it.
The issue with the temple was that he told them they needed to leave the church space. No one got killed. He merely didn't like that bad behavior was taking place on church ground and got angry at them. That seemed a suitable response to people knowingly behaving badly at a sacred space. Just go somewhere else. He didn't stop them.

If Jesus can cleanse the outside of the temple, why can't other people want to cleanse the inside of the temple?

In fact isn't that what Jesus and his followers did? Basically start a new religion? Mocking current jewish leaders as being corrupt? Why can't currrent christians do the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I come from a large Irish Catholic family, though my mom was a young widow and I was an only child. My mom had a college degree, somewhat unusual for her time, but it was from a Catholic women’s college. I attended Catholic school until college, though my mom very much wanted me to attend the college she had.

Sooooo many things my mom, family, Catholic school and church did made me want to leave. The list is too long. But whatever Catholic doctrine applied to any given situation, you’d better believe we followed it. Only now, at age 58, do I have the understanding that I was raised in a cult-like environment.

DH is not Catholic. We baptized our kids as such because my mom would have disowned me otherwise. Frankly, the only reason I got away with marrying a non-Catholic is because DH is a charming guy. Mom loved him.

In my extended family, relatives were disowned upon divorce. My devout aunt and uncle missed YEARS of knowing their first grandchild, who was born out of wedlock.

My biggest regret is that I never had the freedom to choose religion for myself, nor could I raise my kids outside the church. We did baptism, confession, and communion for all 4 of our kids, but my mom was in her 90s and not aware of our household happenings as much, so we skipped confirmation for the 4th.

I was robbed from having any freedom of thought or action until I was much older and realized how the cultlike environment of my upbringing had directed so many aspects of my life.

At my mom’s funeral, I turned around and looked inside the cathedral as we left. Barring any wedding that I feel I’ simply must attend, I vowed on the spot that I would never set foot in a Catholic Church again. And I haven’t.

Just don’t raise your kids with edicts regarding religion, whatever religion you may practice. Catholicism has a LOT of them.

It’s a shame that you seem never to have learned why the teachings are what they are, so that you could develop an adult Faith and not merely react to what you perceived externally as “edicts.”

Is there any way that people can post here without you trying to tear them down? It's specifically a thread for lapsed Catholics. Start your own thread for what did you parents do to help you with your religion and get off this one.

I’m not “tearing down” anyone. I simply object to people blaming the Church and its doctrines for their own choices to “lapse” in their Catholic practice. It seems you would prefer an echo chamber.

Yes, I would. I didn't take this post to be a discussion or debate. It was merely a question whether people's parents had an effect on their decision to leave the church. Not a discussion about whether or not it was a good decision. So when someone poses why do you love your religion and you answer correctly about your own life, do you like it when people chime in to tell you how stupid that decision is that's yours and not theirs? The question didn't start out Why do you love your religion and think other people's decisions about religions are stupid or lets discuss the pros and cons about following religion. It's merely a question asking you about our own lives. This original post wasn't an invitation to debate. You just can't stand having people list why they left and don't want them to have free choice so you can't leave it alone. This post wasn't for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I come from a large Irish Catholic family, though my mom was a young widow and I was an only child. My mom had a college degree, somewhat unusual for her time, but it was from a Catholic women’s college. I attended Catholic school until college, though my mom very much wanted me to attend the college she had.

Sooooo many things my mom, family, Catholic school and church did made me want to leave. The list is too long. But whatever Catholic doctrine applied to any given situation, you’d better believe we followed it. Only now, at age 58, do I have the understanding that I was raised in a cult-like environment.

DH is not Catholic. We baptized our kids as such because my mom would have disowned me otherwise. Frankly, the only reason I got away with marrying a non-Catholic is because DH is a charming guy. Mom loved him.

In my extended family, relatives were disowned upon divorce. My devout aunt and uncle missed YEARS of knowing their first grandchild, who was born out of wedlock.

My biggest regret is that I never had the freedom to choose religion for myself, nor could I raise my kids outside the church. We did baptism, confession, and communion for all 4 of our kids, but my mom was in her 90s and not aware of our household happenings as much, so we skipped confirmation for the 4th.

I was robbed from having any freedom of thought or action until I was much older and realized how the cultlike environment of my upbringing had directed so many aspects of my life.

At my mom’s funeral, I turned around and looked inside the cathedral as we left. Barring any wedding that I feel I’ simply must attend, I vowed on the spot that I would never set foot in a Catholic Church again. And I haven’t.

Just don’t raise your kids with edicts regarding religion, whatever religion you may practice. Catholicism has a LOT of them.

It’s a shame that you seem never to have learned why the teachings are what they are, so that you could develop an adult Faith and not merely react to what you perceived externally as “edicts.”

Is there any way that people can post here without you trying to tear them down? It's specifically a thread for lapsed Catholics. Start your own thread for what did you parents do to help you with your religion and get off this one.

I’m not “tearing down” anyone. I simply object to people blaming the Church and its doctrines for their own choices to “lapse” in their Catholic practice. It seems you would prefer an echo chamber.

You would do well listening to people and asking questions in order to understand more deeply where they’re coming from. Instead, you’re ready to pounce on people with Catechism in hand telling them how you think they should feel and think. It’s people like you, both in clerical and lay roles, driving other people out of the Church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I come from a large Irish Catholic family, though my mom was a young widow and I was an only child. My mom had a college degree, somewhat unusual for her time, but it was from a Catholic women’s college. I attended Catholic school until college, though my mom very much wanted me to attend the college she had.

Sooooo many things my mom, family, Catholic school and church did made me want to leave. The list is too long. But whatever Catholic doctrine applied to any given situation, you’d better believe we followed it. Only now, at age 58, do I have the understanding that I was raised in a cult-like environment.

DH is not Catholic. We baptized our kids as such because my mom would have disowned me otherwise. Frankly, the only reason I got away with marrying a non-Catholic is because DH is a charming guy. Mom loved him.

In my extended family, relatives were disowned upon divorce. My devout aunt and uncle missed YEARS of knowing their first grandchild, who was born out of wedlock.

My biggest regret is that I never had the freedom to choose religion for myself, nor could I raise my kids outside the church. We did baptism, confession, and communion for all 4 of our kids, but my mom was in her 90s and not aware of our household happenings as much, so we skipped confirmation for the 4th.

I was robbed from having any freedom of thought or action until I was much older and realized how the cultlike environment of my upbringing had directed so many aspects of my life.

At my mom’s funeral, I turned around and looked inside the cathedral as we left. Barring any wedding that I feel I’ simply must attend, I vowed on the spot that I would never set foot in a Catholic Church again. And I haven’t.

Just don’t raise your kids with edicts regarding religion, whatever religion you may practice. Catholicism has a LOT of them.

It’s a shame that you seem never to have learned why the teachings are what they are, so that you could develop an adult Faith and not merely react to what you perceived externally as “edicts.”

Is there any way that people can post here without you trying to tear them down? It's specifically a thread for lapsed Catholics. Start your own thread for what did you parents do to help you with your religion and get off this one.

I’m not “tearing down” anyone. I simply object to people blaming the Church and its doctrines for their own choices to “lapse” in their Catholic practice. It seems you would prefer an echo chamber.

You would do well listening to people and asking questions in order to understand more deeply where they’re coming from. Instead, you’re ready to pounce on people with Catechism in hand telling them how you think they should feel and think. It’s people like you, both in clerical and lay roles, driving other people out of the Church.

I hunk very few people are “driven” from the Church except in a vehicle constructed of self-justification and blame projection. Folks are free to think and feel what they want. They shouldn’t misrepresent Church teaching when the cause of their separation is their refusal even to attempt to abide by it, because they’d rather do things they know they shouldn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I come from a large Irish Catholic family, though my mom was a young widow and I was an only child. My mom had a college degree, somewhat unusual for her time, but it was from a Catholic women’s college. I attended Catholic school until college, though my mom very much wanted me to attend the college she had.

Sooooo many things my mom, family, Catholic school and church did made me want to leave. The list is too long. But whatever Catholic doctrine applied to any given situation, you’d better believe we followed it. Only now, at age 58, do I have the understanding that I was raised in a cult-like environment.

DH is not Catholic. We baptized our kids as such because my mom would have disowned me otherwise. Frankly, the only reason I got away with marrying a non-Catholic is because DH is a charming guy. Mom loved him.

In my extended family, relatives were disowned upon divorce. My devout aunt and uncle missed YEARS of knowing their first grandchild, who was born out of wedlock.

My biggest regret is that I never had the freedom to choose religion for myself, nor could I raise my kids outside the church. We did baptism, confession, and communion for all 4 of our kids, but my mom was in her 90s and not aware of our household happenings as much, so we skipped confirmation for the 4th.

I was robbed from having any freedom of thought or action until I was much older and realized how the cultlike environment of my upbringing had directed so many aspects of my life.

At my mom’s funeral, I turned around and looked inside the cathedral as we left. Barring any wedding that I feel I’ simply must attend, I vowed on the spot that I would never set foot in a Catholic Church again. And I haven’t.

Just don’t raise your kids with edicts regarding religion, whatever religion you may practice. Catholicism has a LOT of them.

It’s a shame that you seem never to have learned why the teachings are what they are, so that you could develop an adult Faith and not merely react to what you perceived externally as “edicts.”

Is there any way that people can post here without you trying to tear them down? It's specifically a thread for lapsed Catholics. Start your own thread for what did you parents do to help you with your religion and get off this one.

I’m not “tearing down” anyone. I simply object to people blaming the Church and its doctrines for their own choices to “lapse” in their Catholic practice. It seems you would prefer an echo chamber.

You would do well listening to people and asking questions in order to understand more deeply where they’re coming from. Instead, you’re ready to pounce on people with Catechism in hand telling them how you think they should feel and think. It’s people like you, both in clerical and lay roles, driving other people out of the Church.

I hunk very few people are “driven” from the Church except in a vehicle constructed of self-justification and blame projection. Folks are free to think and feel what they want. They shouldn’t misrepresent Church teaching when the cause of their separation is their refusal even to attempt to abide by it, because they’d rather do things they know they shouldn’t.

Sadly, you know nothing. People are far more complex than you realize or want to accept, and the decision to leave the Church is often made after a lengthy and painful process. Life is not as black and white as you want it to be.