New TJ Lawsuit Filed 3/10/21 by Pacific Legal Foundation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know this isn't about who studies more. There were people actually cheating on the TJ exams and I wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread cheating in certain communities to get a leg up. There is nothing good about the way the old system worked. The new system sucks too but at least it gives a more even playing field.

28% of the class of 2024 came from one single prep company. 133 kids. That same company only had 50 kids admitted a year before.

Exactly - if $1000-a-pop test prep agencies are cropping up around your admissions process, it's pretty reasonable to move away from that.

*$4-5000 a pop

+1 This is the crux of the problem here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole revision was based on a goal of increasing the numbers of black and hispanic students. Just because they added a sentence in the motion saying the new plan is race-neutra doesn’t make it so.

Though, actually, the group that will increase the most from the changes are White students. Making Asians the ones with the most to lose is a major win for White people.

This. All this blame aimed at black and Hispanic students, when it's WHITE students who will benefit the most.

I mean, this would be true if white folks were actually interested in sending their kids to TJ. They're not, for the most part. White applications have dropped by more than 50% in the past 8 years.

I know white parents whose older kids didn't apply in prior years whose younger kids are applying this year. I also know an Asian family whose oldest went to TJ, middle one opted out despite being a stronger student than the first one and whose youngest is applying this year. I think people are hoping their kids will be able to focus on STEM without being in what was perceived, rightly or wrongly, as a pressure cooker environment. We'll see how the numbers turn out.

You made this up.

It's strange that people don't understand why white, black or Hispanic kids don't want to attend TJ. In fact there are probably a lot of Asian student that don't want to Go to TJ but tiger mom forces them anyway. They just need to shut TJ down and save the county millions of dollars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know this isn't about who studies more. There were people actually cheating on the TJ exams and I wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread cheating in certain communities to get a leg up. There is nothing good about the way the old system worked. The new system sucks too but at least it gives a more even playing field.

28% of the class of 2024 came from one single prep company. 133 kids. That same company only had 50 kids admitted a year before.

It will be interesting to see what, if any, impact the list of prepped students has on college admissions. The first and last names of the kids prepped in 2022, 2023 and 2024 are out there and it will likely be shared with college admissions officers. There was a case last year or the year before where a student saw another student has his direct competition for college admissions. The targeted student was tricked into saying a racist term on camera and the other student shares the video with top college admissions.

Other TJ students have already discussed their plans to use these lists against the Curie students, which tells you something about the deep toxicity of the TJ environment. It's not likely, however, to have any sort of impact at all in the college admissions process.

Curie didn't really do anything illegal here, as disgusting and shameful as it was. They shouldn't have any legal liability. But they absolutely did have a major impact on testing being removed as a component of the TJ admissions process, and as a consequence will likely be the single biggest influence in the upcoming decline in the Indian American TJ population over the next 5-10 years.

The lawsuit against FCPS still isn't going anywhere.

hopefully the county uses the lawsuit as an opportunity to depose the students and curie staff. Tough spot for the students, lie under oath and risk the penalties or tell the truth and get expelled

I mean, TJ students don't get expelled for cheating repeatedly while they're actually in the school. There's no way they'd get expelled for this. Might face some repercussions from the company that produces the Quant-Q, since that's supposed to be a secure exam.

I heard the reason so many TJ kids chose virtual over in person is because it's easier to cheat. Is cheating really that rampant?

Yes, I believe there is a potential for all virtual students to cheat, much higher than in person. It only makes sense that cheating would be rampant at home. Who’s monitoring these students at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know this isn't about who studies more. There were people actually cheating on the TJ exams and I wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread cheating in certain communities to get a leg up. There is nothing good about the way the old system worked. The new system sucks too but at least it gives a more even playing field.

28% of the class of 2024 came from one single prep company. 133 kids. That same company only had 50 kids admitted a year before.

Exactly - if $1000-a-pop test prep agencies are cropping up around your admissions process, it's pretty reasonable to move away from that.

*$4-5000 a pop

DAAMMMNN!!!

It's expensive to game the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asra Nomani and her cronies have just lost it. They are making parents contribute 1000s for filing their lawsuits and one would think they would not be able to to survive in this world if their kids did not make it to TJ. Their Telegram group is unbelievable - making me wonder if these parents even work, or their whole day goes in obsessing about TJ. The whole movement initiated by her, her articles, propaganda are so negative.

A lot of the TJ parents are here illegally and put a lot of pressure on the students, that's why it looks so desperate.

[Anonymous]

Wait, what? Do you have a cite for this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know this isn't about who studies more. There were people actually cheating on the TJ exams and I wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread cheating in certain communities to get a leg up. There is nothing good about the way the old system worked. The new system sucks too but at least it gives a more even playing field.

28% of the class of 2024 came from one single prep company. 133 kids. That same company only had 50 kids admitted a year before.

It will be interesting to see what, if any, impact the list of prepped students has on college admissions. The first and last names of the kids prepped in 2022, 2023 and 2024 are out there and it will likely be shared with college admissions officers. There was a case last year or the year before where a student saw another student has his direct competition for college admissions. The targeted student was tricked into saying a racist term on camera and the other student shares the video with top college admissions.

Other TJ students have already discussed their plans to use these lists against the Curie students, which tells you something about the deep toxicity of the TJ environment. It's not likely, however, to have any sort of impact at all in the college admissions process.

Curie didn't really do anything illegal here, as disgusting and shameful as it was. They shouldn't have any legal liability. But they absolutely did have a major impact on testing being removed as a component of the TJ admissions process, and as a consequence will likely be the single biggest influence in the upcoming decline in the Indian American TJ population over the next 5-10 years.

The lawsuit against FCPS still isn't going anywhere.

hopefully the county uses the lawsuit as an opportunity to depose the students and curie staff. Tough spot for the students, lie under oath and risk the penalties or tell the truth and get expelled

I mean, TJ students don't get expelled for cheating repeatedly while they're actually in the school. There's no way they'd get expelled for this. Might face some repercussions from the company that produces the Quant-Q, since that's supposed to be a secure exam.

I heard the reason so many TJ kids chose virtual over in person is because it's easier to cheat. Is cheating really that rampant?

It is not a huge percentage of students at TJ who cheat - rather the issue is that you have a smallish cohort of students who are very dedicated to it and very good at it, and who use it to create imbalances in the college admissions process.

It is a source of great frustration at TJ every year when several of the universally known cheaters are admitted to desirable universities. And I mean, these are kids in some cases who have been caught multiple times. But there's no mechanism for removing them from the school, basically no matter how many times they're caught.

Why is there no mechanism in place for removing them? Given that they’ve been caught multiple times?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asra Nomani and her cronies have just lost it. They are making parents contribute 1000s for filing their lawsuits and one would think they would not be able to to survive in this world if their kids did not make it to TJ. Their Telegram group is unbelievable - making me wonder if these parents even work, or their whole day goes in obsessing about TJ. The whole movement initiated by her, her articles, propaganda are so negative.

A lot of the TJ parents are here illegally and put a lot of pressure on the students, that's why it looks so desperate.

Take a poll here.

If your kids attended TJ ever, are you in the US legally or illegally?

[Anonymous]

Clearly they just need to close TJ and send everyone back to their base schools. They will all be just as smart and driven and do just as well there.

This will be the end result. Honors for All, just like DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Clearly they just need to close TJ and send everyone back to their base schools. They will all be just as smart and driven and do just as well there.

This will be the end result. Honors for All, just like DC.

I agree. Let them be normal HS students. Sink or swim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole revision was based on a goal of increasing the numbers of black and hispanic students. Just because they added a sentence in the motion saying the new plan is race-neutra doesn’t make it so.

Though, actually, the group that will increase the most from the changes are White students. Making Asians the ones with the most to lose is a major win for White people.

This. All this blame aimed at black and Hispanic students, when it's WHITE students who will benefit the most.

I mean, this would be true if white folks were actually interested in sending their kids to TJ. They're not, for the most part. White applications have dropped by more than 50% in the past 8 years.

I know white parents whose older kids didn't apply in prior years whose younger kids are applying this year. I also know an Asian family whose oldest went to TJ, middle one opted out despite being a stronger student than the first one and whose youngest is applying this year. I think people are hoping their kids will be able to focus on STEM without being in what was perceived, rightly or wrongly, as a pressure cooker environment. We'll see how the numbers turn out.

In other words: Older white kids couldn't pass the test so didn't bother to apply, but now that the test is gone, the younger white kids are applying. Middle Asian kid was probably popular and athletic and wanted to stay with his/her friends/teammates in his/her base school. The youngest is a nerd like the eldest.

Actually, the increasing number of people with attitudes like yours are the reason many whites have been avoiding TJ.

BINGO!

There are other reasons why kids don't want to attend TJ, lack of sports, travel distance and teen social life to name a few.

Ehh...... so there's a point to be made here, but there are also counterpoints.

Distance: Yep. That's a tough one.

Lack of sports: TJ has every sport that any other FCPS school has - with a couple of niche exceptions like rifle - but the common perception is that they suck at sports. True in a sense, as the sports that most people care about are not traditionally very successful, but TJ also wins tons of championships in sports like tennis and swim and golf. It's a chicken-and-egg problem, because the reality is that TJ would be better in football if more kids who played football would go to TJ, and more kids would go play football at TJ if they were better at it. They've had very good football teams at times in the relatively recent past, and they've also cratered when they get no players.

But conversely, because of this lack of success, there are a lot more opportunities for kids to play at the varsity level earlier than they would at their base school. There are kids every year who play varsity sports as freshmen at TJ, when at their base school they might have to wait until they're a junior. Or juniors at TJ who make the varsity who might have been cut from the JV at their base school. And this happens across all sports, giving these kids an opportunity to develop to a much higher level than they would otherwise.

Social life: It's really hard for kids to leave their friends to go to TJ. I know, because it's what I had to do when I was 14. No one from my middle school went to TJ other than me. But what I lost from my prior friends, I gained in getting a brand new group of kids in my IBET, and eventually through my activities, that were much more like-minded than what I would have found amongst the additional kids at my base school. It's inherently difficult with everyone living so far away from each other, but in the end the result is that the social life sort of revolves around TJ from a geographical perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait, what? Do you have a cite for this?

I am super pro-reform, but there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that there's a significant number of TJ families who are here illegally. There are several who are here just for TJ, but not illegally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know this isn't about who studies more. There were people actually cheating on the TJ exams and I wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread cheating in certain communities to get a leg up. There is nothing good about the way the old system worked. The new system sucks too but at least it gives a more even playing field.

28% of the class of 2024 came from one single prep company. 133 kids. That same company only had 50 kids admitted a year before.

It will be interesting to see what, if any, impact the list of prepped students has on college admissions. The first and last names of the kids prepped in 2022, 2023 and 2024 are out there and it will likely be shared with college admissions officers. There was a case last year or the year before where a student saw another student has his direct competition for college admissions. The targeted student was tricked into saying a racist term on camera and the other student shares the video with top college admissions.

Other TJ students have already discussed their plans to use these lists against the Curie students, which tells you something about the deep toxicity of the TJ environment. It's not likely, however, to have any sort of impact at all in the college admissions process.

Curie didn't really do anything illegal here, as disgusting and shameful as it was. They shouldn't have any legal liability. But they absolutely did have a major impact on testing being removed as a component of the TJ admissions process, and as a consequence will likely be the single biggest influence in the upcoming decline in the Indian American TJ population over the next 5-10 years.

The lawsuit against FCPS still isn't going anywhere.

hopefully the county uses the lawsuit as an opportunity to depose the students and curie staff. Tough spot for the students, lie under oath and risk the penalties or tell the truth and get expelled

I mean, TJ students don't get expelled for cheating repeatedly while they're actually in the school. There's no way they'd get expelled for this. Might face some repercussions from the company that produces the Quant-Q, since that's supposed to be a secure exam.

I heard the reason so many TJ kids chose virtual over in person is because it's easier to cheat. Is cheating really that rampant?

It is not a huge percentage of students at TJ who cheat - rather the issue is that you have a smallish cohort of students who are very dedicated to it and very good at it, and who use it to create imbalances in the college admissions process.

It is a source of great frustration at TJ every year when several of the universally known cheaters are admitted to desirable universities. And I mean, these are kids in some cases who have been caught multiple times. But there's no mechanism for removing them from the school, basically no matter how many times they're caught.

Why is there no mechanism in place for removing them? Given that they’ve been caught multiple times?

FCPS won't allow it. Oddly enough, they'll allow TJ to remove kids for having less than a 3.0, but not for repeated academic integrity issues. Sends a poor message.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know this isn't about who studies more. There were people actually cheating on the TJ exams and I wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread cheating in certain communities to get a leg up. There is nothing good about the way the old system worked. The new system sucks too but at least it gives a more even playing field.

28% of the class of 2024 came from one single prep company. 133 kids. That same company only had 50 kids admitted a year before.

It will be interesting to see what, if any, impact the list of prepped students has on college admissions. The first and last names of the kids prepped in 2022, 2023 and 2024 are out there and it will likely be shared with college admissions officers. There was a case last year or the year before where a student saw another student has his direct competition for college admissions. The targeted student was tricked into saying a racist term on camera and the other student shares the video with top college admissions.

Other TJ students have already discussed their plans to use these lists against the Curie students, which tells you something about the deep toxicity of the TJ environment. It's not likely, however, to have any sort of impact at all in the college admissions process.

Curie didn't really do anything illegal here, as disgusting and shameful as it was. They shouldn't have any legal liability. But they absolutely did have a major impact on testing being removed as a component of the TJ admissions process, and as a consequence will likely be the single biggest influence in the upcoming decline in the Indian American TJ population over the next 5-10 years.

The lawsuit against FCPS still isn't going anywhere.

hopefully the county uses the lawsuit as an opportunity to depose the students and curie staff. Tough spot for the students, lie under oath and risk the penalties or tell the truth and get expelled

I mean, TJ students don't get expelled for cheating repeatedly while they're actually in the school. There's no way they'd get expelled for this. Might face some repercussions from the company that produces the Quant-Q, since that's supposed to be a secure exam.

I heard the reason so many TJ kids chose virtual over in person is because it's easier to cheat. Is cheating really that rampant?

It is not a huge percentage of students at TJ who cheat - rather the issue is that you have a smallish cohort of students who are very dedicated to it and very good at it, and who use it to create imbalances in the college admissions process.

It is a source of great frustration at TJ every year when several of the universally known cheaters are admitted to desirable universities. And I mean, these are kids in some cases who have been caught multiple times. But there's no mechanism for removing them from the school, basically no matter how many times they're caught.

Why is there no mechanism in place for removing them? Given that they’ve been caught multiple times?

FCPS won't allow it. Oddly enough, they'll allow TJ to remove kids for having less than a 3.0, but not for repeated academic integrity issues. Sends a poor message.

Unbelievable. I’m failing to understand this, is it to protect the school’s reputation? If so, it’s not working because now it’s known as a school that ignores and even promotes cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, what? Do you have a cite for this?

I am super pro-reform, but there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that there's a significant number of TJ families who are here illegally. There are several who are here just for TJ, but not illegally.

FCPS can't ask the immigration status. But It's very common that the parents of students in FCPS are here illegally. 40% of undocumented immigrants in this country are Asian, https://asiasociety.org/northern-california/not-just-latino-issue-undocumented-asians-america.