Admissions to change at Thomas Jefferson High, and others

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once again, calling out the crowd that seems fine with the gross under-representation of Black and Hispanic/FARMS kids in AAP overall, and put all the focus on TJ.

If TJ admissions is racist, so is AAP (test scores, parent appeals, GBRS, outside private testing, parent-requested principal placement in Level IV) - why are you not suggesting that AAP be "closed" "thrown out" or an "embarrassment to FCPS." Sure sounds like you are interested in protecting the institution that your child benefits from but not the one they can't get into...

Note that the NAACP meeting with Dr. Braband was not all about TJ - it was about school discipline, PARENT APPEALS for AAP, test scores, etc. You folks are the ones focused only on one symptom of the systemic racism in FCPS - TJ - but not the people in charge, luckily.

look it's parenting. It is not the job of the government to get more black and hispanic farms families to read to their children more and engage with them more from 0-3

Heck it starts even before that with nutrition and care during pregnancy

Folks this is why you will never close the achievement gap. Move on die on another hill

And this is why we will continue to have protests. Nasty racists who just don’t get it. Go back to your hole.

facts aren't racist feel free to keep on protesting but ignoring reality is just dumb.

It’s disgusting that you try to blame inequality on “bad parenting”.

Seems like your own parents failed, big time.

last one what's stopping a poor person from reading to their kid or choosing a better diet.... you can't answer the question its bad parenting that causes the initial gap from 0-3 period. You can pour all the money you want (We have been doing it for what over 50 years now) it won't solve that initial gap.

A poor parent could have dropped out of high school, dropping out of school is something cyclical and that is a cycle that is hard to break. The lack of education on the parents part means that the parent might not know that it is important to read to their child. The parent probably didn't have anyone read to them as a kid so they might not have a role model. The poor parent might not have the ability to buy books. Or know that they can get free books for Dolly Patton. Or how to get a library card. The poor parent might be working shifts that make it hard to read to their child. The poor parent might not be able to read. The poor parent might not have the ability to help their child with their school work. The poor parent might not be able to follow up and meet with Teachers because of work schedule.

There is a massively long list of systemic and structural causes of cyclical poverty. Families that are less well off but able to immigrate to the US are coming with a different set of skills and cultural backgrounds that lead to a different set of motivations. They have not been directly impacted by the systemic issues that people who live in poverty in the US have to deal with. These same issues exist in rural areas as well as urban areas. Just look at some of the issues of the white poor in rural parts of the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once again, calling out the crowd that seems fine with the gross under-representation of Black and Hispanic/FARMS kids in AAP overall, and put all the focus on TJ.

If TJ admissions is racist, so is AAP (test scores, parent appeals, GBRS, outside private testing, parent-requested principal placement in Level IV) - why are you not suggesting that AAP be "closed" "thrown out" or an "embarrassment to FCPS." Sure sounds like you are interested in protecting the institution that your child benefits from but not the one they can't get into...

Note that the NAACP meeting with Dr. Braband was not all about TJ - it was about school discipline, PARENT APPEALS for AAP, test scores, etc. You folks are the ones focused only on one symptom of the systemic racism in FCPS - TJ - but not the people in charge, luckily.

look it's parenting. It is not the job of the government to get more black and hispanic farms families to read to their children more and engage with them more from 0-3

Heck it starts even before that with nutrition and care during pregnancy

Folks this is why you will never close the achievement gap. Move on die on another hill

And this is why we will continue to have protests. Nasty racists who just don’t get it. Go back to your hole.

facts aren't racist feel free to keep on protesting but ignoring reality is just dumb.

It’s disgusting that you try to blame inequality on “bad parenting”.

Seems like your own parents failed, big time.

last one what's stopping a poor person from reading to their kid or choosing a better diet.... you can't answer the question its bad parenting that causes the initial gap from 0-3 period. You can pour all the money you want (We have been doing it for what over 50 years now) it won't solve that initial gap.

It’s not the student’s fault they were parented badly. They shouldn’t suffer because of their parents’ choices.

It is not the student’s fault the parents May be poor and uneducated. It is also not the school’s job to place an unqualified student into the top high school in the county just because of their race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would bet a large number of URM who would probably apply to TJ are in private schools.

This

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It is not the student’s fault the parents May be poor and uneducated. It is also not the school’s job to place an unqualified student into the top high school in the county just because of their race.

The supreme court has already spoken to this argument: "“Independent of student assignment, where it is possible to identify a ‘white school’ or a ‘Negro school’ simply by reference to the racial composition of teachers and staff, the quality of school buildings and equipment, or the organization of sports activities, a prima facie case of violation of substantive constitutional rights under the Equal Protection Clause is shown.”"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not the student’s fault the parents May be poor and uneducated. It is also not the school’s job to place an unqualified student into the top high school in the county just because of their race.

The supreme court has already spoken to this argument: "“Independent of student assignment, where it is possible to identify a ‘white school’ or a ‘Negro school’ simply by reference to the racial composition of teachers and staff, the quality of school buildings and equipment, or the organization of sports activities, a prima facie case of violation of substantive constitutional rights under the Equal Protection Clause is shown.”"

Asians are not white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once again, calling out the crowd that seems fine with the gross under-representation of Black and Hispanic/FARMS kids in AAP overall, and put all the focus on TJ.

If TJ admissions is racist, so is AAP (test scores, parent appeals, GBRS, outside private testing, parent-requested principal placement in Level IV) - why are you not suggesting that AAP be "closed" "thrown out" or an "embarrassment to FCPS." Sure sounds like you are interested in protecting the institution that your child benefits from but not the one they can't get into...

Note that the NAACP meeting with Dr. Braband was not all about TJ - it was about school discipline, PARENT APPEALS for AAP, test scores, etc. You folks are the ones focused only on one symptom of the systemic racism in FCPS - TJ - but not the people in charge, luckily.

look it's parenting. It is not the job of the government to get more black and hispanic farms families to read to their children more and engage with them more from 0-3

Heck it starts even before that with nutrition and care during pregnancy

Folks this is why you will never close the achievement gap. Move on die on another hill

And this is why we will continue to have protests. Nasty racists who just don’t get it. Go back to your hole.

facts aren't racist feel free to keep on protesting but ignoring reality is just dumb.

It’s disgusting that you try to blame inequality on “bad parenting”.

Seems like your own parents failed, big time.

last one what's stopping a poor person from reading to their kid or choosing a better diet.... you can't answer the question its bad parenting that causes the initial gap from 0-3 period. You can pour all the money you want (We have been doing it for what over 50 years now) it won't solve that initial gap.

A poor parent could have dropped out of high school, dropping out of school is something cyclical and that is a cycle that is hard to break. The lack of education on the parents part means that the parent might not know that it is important to read to their child. The parent probably didn't have anyone read to them as a kid so they might not have a role model. The poor parent might not have the ability to buy books. Or know that they can get free books for Dolly Patton. Or how to get a library card. The poor parent might be working shifts that make it hard to read to their child. The poor parent might not be able to read. The poor parent might not have the ability to help their child with their school work. The poor parent might not be able to follow up and meet with Teachers because of work schedule.

There is a massively long list of systemic and structural causes of cyclical poverty. Families that are less well off but able to immigrate to the US are coming with a different set of skills and cultural backgrounds that lead to a different set of motivations. They have not been directly impacted by the systemic issues that people who live in poverty in the US have to deal with. These same issues exist in rural areas as well as urban areas. Just look at some of the issues of the white poor in rural parts of the country.

What you're saying is a correct observation, but so what? It's not ones job to fix other people's kids. There is so much you can do to help as a Good Samaritan, but ultimately under any social system you are in charge of your own kids, and you'd not be doing your job as a parent if you didn't do your best to help your kids.

Also, you're being very unfair to immigrants. You want their skill, experience and zeal, but you want to deprive them of the opportunity to actually make something better for their next generation. So you want to reward their hard work when it suits you, but as soon as their hard work creates an obstacle for your social agenda, you want to reprimand them by removing the opportunity that they can earn. So, you basically want slaves, good while they aren't a real threat to your social justice lifestyle, but not good and worthy when they achieve something that shakes you off your throne.

[Anonymous]

Education begins in the home and that begins very early. I was taught that schools were supplemental to my education, and I now appreciate what my parents instilled in me over and over. Parents are solely responsible for the education. Not the teachers, not the school system, not the county, not the state. I never had fancy prep schools, or private tutors. But, I vividly recall reading every night before bed, 7 days a week - even on vacation trips - in silence and aloud. I would feel incomplete if this routine were omitted. (Imagine forgoing teeth brushing before bed for your kid!) In retrospect, this was transformative for me and permitted me to develop a love for learning. So, yes early intervention (imprinting) is essential for lifelong learning and long term success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Underrepresented minorities don’t apply very much. White applicants are declining. Vague reasons of “culture.” It’s clearly racism towards Asian Americans.

Declining interest in a school where those aren’t Asian are turned away far more often and where you may be mistreated even if you do get in isn’t racist. If there is any racism on display, it comes from those who casually assert URMs don’t belong there.

Yep, it's not vague reasons of culture. It's the experiences of Black and Hispanic students who do attend TJ and report that they only got in for reasons of affirmative action, and that they are occupying seats that should have belonged to their friends. And it's not only Asian students who engage in this casual racism. White students do it too.

I will say, there are plenty of white families who don't apply because the school is too Asian, and that's ugly. Others couch it in terms of not wanting to engage with the insanely competitive atmosphere.

So interesting that there aren’t URM students but there are so many tales of mistreatment. Which one is it? My kids have not heard this talk there at all. Neither do they find it “insanely competitive.” The kids work together so much and really collaborate. They are very motivated learners but not competitive with others.

There are absolutely these students at the school. Between Black and Hispanic, it's usually about 15 in each class of 480. Don't discount their experiences. And don't expect your kids to report to you everything that goes on there. They want to please you. Just make sure that you're letting them know that such behavior is unacceptable, if you indeed believe it is.

Wow, what an utterly condescending post.

[Anonymous]

Appreciate the nuance over the last couple of posts

Nothing more to add

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Underrepresented minorities don’t apply very much. White applicants are declining. Vague reasons of “culture.” It’s clearly racism towards Asian Americans.

Declining interest in a school where those aren’t Asian are turned away far more often and where you may be mistreated even if you do get in isn’t racist. If there is any racism on display, it comes from those who casually assert URMs don’t belong there.

Yep, it's not vague reasons of culture. It's the experiences of Black and Hispanic students who do attend TJ and report that they only got in for reasons of affirmative action, and that they are occupying seats that should have belonged to their friends. And it's not only Asian students who engage in this casual racism. White students do it too.

I will say, there are plenty of white families who don't apply because the school is too Asian, and that's ugly. Others couch it in terms of not wanting to engage with the insanely competitive atmosphere.

So interesting that there aren’t URM students but there are so many tales of mistreatment. Which one is it? My kids have not heard this talk there at all. Neither do they find it “insanely competitive.” The kids work together so much and really collaborate. They are very motivated learners but not competitive with others.

There are absolutely these students at the school. Between Black and Hispanic, it's usually about 15 in each class of 480. Don't discount their experiences. And don't expect your kids to report to you everything that goes on there. They want to please you. Just make sure that you're letting them know that such behavior is unacceptable, if you indeed believe it is.

Wow, what an utterly condescending post.

DP. That post wasn’t condescending at all. It was realistic, however, and perhaps not what some of the TJ crowd wants to hear.

[Anonymous]

What you're saying is a correct observation, but so what? It's not ones job to fix other people's kids. There is so much you can do to help as a Good Samaritan, but ultimately under any social system you are in charge of your own kids, and you'd not be doing your job as a parent if you didn't do your best to help your kids.

Also, you're being very unfair to immigrants. You want their skill, experience and zeal, but you want to deprive them of the opportunity to actually make something better for their next generation. So you want to reward their hard work when it suits you, but as soon as their hard work creates an obstacle for your social agenda, you want to reprimand them by removing the opportunity that they can earn. So, you basically want slaves, good while they aren't a real threat to your social justice lifestyle, but not good and worthy when they achieve something that shakes you off your throne.

I don't want to deprive anyone of an opportunity. I am only saying that there are different sets of circumstances surrounding an immigrant family who comes to the US with little to a poor family that has lived in the US for generations and is dealing with systemic racism and poverty. You cannot compare the experiences of the poor immigrant family that came to the US with very specific goals for their families to a poor family living in the poor sections of Fairfax County. The motivations of the families and the idea about what they can accomplish are likely to be very different. As such, the solution is not for the poor parent to just read to their kid.

It would be incredibly hard for a kid who is living in poverty from a family that has lived in poverty to compete for a school like TJ using the current model.

TJ is a great school and I hope that it continues on. But AAP needs to be massively revamped and the admission process for TJ should be revamped. The idea of a lottery for kids who score well enough on the exams makes sense to me. The scores and grades will be taken into consideration. The lottery can offer a certain number of seats to each Middle School. If a Middle School does not have enough students who meet the grade and test scores, those lottery spots go into a general pool. Draw the lottery spots for each school first and then all remaining candidates are put into a general lottery pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The admissions process *has* to change. Those in favor of the status quo make comments dripping in racism saying they don’t want to “lower standards” and keep admissions “merit-based”. These people are claiming that in the counties that feed into TJ, less than 20 Black and Hispanic students are “good enough”. Do they not recognize how utterly racist this is?? There are more than 450 students who could do well at TJ. Heck, I’m sure just about everyone who applies is a top-performing student at their middle school. It’s so obvious that these families against change just don’t want Black and Hispanic kids at their school. They need to just come out and say it because they’re doing a bad job masking their true intentions.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we can’t make access to TJ fair then we should shut it down. Fix it or lose it altogether.

better make access to ivies fair, too

[Anonymous]

I know a handful (maybe two) of both Asians and also non Asians who refused TJ because 1.) they applied to see if they could get in (they did) and 2.) TJ was ultimately "too Asian" for them, and they said as much.

They also stated that they were afraid of the cheating going on at the school. Not sure if there is or not, but that is the perception - I think some parents believe if kids use all that prep to get in, they did not get in on their own merits, so cheating is rampant.

I don't think this perception, however untrue, is uncommon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once again, calling out the crowd that seems fine with the gross under-representation of Black and Hispanic/FARMS kids in AAP overall, and put all the focus on TJ.

If TJ admissions is racist, so is AAP (test scores, parent appeals, GBRS, outside private testing, parent-requested principal placement in Level IV) - why are you not suggesting that AAP be "closed" "thrown out" or an "embarrassment to FCPS." Sure sounds like you are interested in protecting the institution that your child benefits from but not the one they can't get into...

Note that the NAACP meeting with Dr. Braband was not all about TJ - it was about school discipline, PARENT APPEALS for AAP, test scores, etc. You folks are the ones focused only on one symptom of the systemic racism in FCPS - TJ - but not the people in charge, luckily.

Yes, I’ve been saying AAP should be shut down for years.

Shut down? Why? Because your kid isn't in AAP?