Pelvic exams on unconscious women

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am just amazed at the claptrap posted here.

I know physicians at teaching hospitals who make it clear that residents WILL be involved in the care of the patient and if the patient is not comfortable with their involvement s/he should find another doctor. How exactly does the next generation of doctors get trained if patients forbid residents and medical students to participate in their care?

The point is CONSENT explicitly to multiple pelvic exams while unconscious. You are just okay with people doing whatever they want with your body?

Multiple pelvic examinations is nonsense. How many residents do you think are in an OR at the same time? Usually just one .........

But a patient is entitled to refuse examination by a resident and a doctor is entitled to tell that patient to find another physician/hospital. Let me repeat: how exactly does the next generation of doctors get trained if patients forbid residents and medical students to participate in their care?

You do realize that a woman can get medical services at a non-teaching hospital and if she does that, the problem is solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is making me wonder about every doctor, male or female, that I know. Did they do this!?

I'm glad I didn't know about this before the surgery I had recently. Non-gynological, thank goodness.

I have almost always chosen women doctors for myself and kids, but for specialists, I have had some men. My current cardiologist is excellent and took precautions I hadn't even thought to ask about - for my first exam with him he brought a nurse in, who just quietly stood against the wall to be witness. I have no idea if it is legally required or not, but I appreciated it.

Had a conversation with hubby (who is a surgeon) and some of his surgeon friends. No one had known of this practice in the OR, where they had unfettered access to touch, grope, feel a woman. When I mentioned this, they were quite surprised and shocked. They said the only time they had "access" to look/touch at a female or male in such manner was if there were volunteers (note: not patients) who knowingly permitted it but they said this was few and far. FWIW, hubby and his friends are not OBGYNs so I cannot comment on what transpires there.

Two physicians in my family - both anesthesiologists working at teaching hospitals - and they said in all their years they had never witnessed anything such as is described. Yes, internal examinations may take place but it would be limited to one or two residents at the most and it would be under supervision.

I am the PP you responded to. I agree with what you say, but some nutso woman is going to go on there and say that those two physicians in your life are likely lying to you.

Wait - so these two doctors said it DID happen but was limited to just one or two doctors or students performing the pelvic exams without consent? So because it is just one or two that's ok? No - it is still sexual assault. Basically you are saying the doctors in your family confirmed that they HAVE seen women getting pelvic exams while unconscious without their consent

You are stunningly ignorant: do you realize how broad the consent forms are? They are broad precisely to provide maximum latitude ......... and to deal with idiots like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am just amazed at the claptrap posted here.

I know physicians at teaching hospitals who make it clear that residents WILL be involved in the care of the patient and if the patient is not comfortable with their involvement s/he should find another doctor. How exactly does the next generation of doctors get trained if patients forbid residents and medical students to participate in their care?

The point is CONSENT explicitly to multiple pelvic exams while unconscious. You are just okay with people doing whatever they want with your body?

Multiple pelvic examinations is nonsense. How many residents do you think are in an OR at the same time? Usually just one .........

But a patient is entitled to refuse examination by a resident and a doctor is entitled to tell that patient to find another physician/hospital. Let me repeat: how exactly does the next generation of doctors get trained if patients forbid residents and medical students to participate in their care?

You do realize that a woman can get medical services at a non-teaching hospital and if she does that, the problem is solved.

You have no idea what you are talking about
1. there may also be med student involved so that more than one person
2. there may be other residents
3. sometimes you dont have the option to not go to a teaching hospital
4. so i guess your saying anything goes for the sake of teaching!

Okay great- lets just have doctors do whatever they want just to "learn" and be "taught." They could easily learn on CONSENTING females and standardized patients. OR they could ask clearly and make sure the patient knows what will happen and who to call for compensation for any damages done down there by untrained med students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am just amazed at the claptrap posted here.

I know physicians at teaching hospitals who make it clear that residents WILL be involved in the care of the patient and if the patient is not comfortable with their involvement s/he should find another doctor. How exactly does the next generation of doctors get trained if patients forbid residents and medical students to participate in their care?

The point is CONSENT explicitly to multiple pelvic exams while unconscious. You are just okay with people doing whatever they want with your body?

Multiple pelvic examinations is nonsense. How many residents do you think are in an OR at the same time? Usually just one .........

But a patient is entitled to refuse examination by a resident and a doctor is entitled to tell that patient to find another physician/hospital. Let me repeat: how exactly does the next generation of doctors get trained if patients forbid residents and medical students to participate in their care?

You do realize that a woman can get medical services at a non-teaching hospital and if she does that, the problem is solved.

You have no idea what you are talking about
1. there may also be med student involved so that more than one person
2. there may be other residents
3. sometimes you dont have the option to not go to a teaching hospital
4. so i guess your saying anything goes for the sake of teaching!

Okay great- lets just have doctors do whatever they want just to "learn" and be "taught." They could easily learn on CONSENTING females and standardized patients. OR they could ask clearly and make sure the patient knows what will happen and who to call for compensation for any damages done down there by untrained med students

You really are an ignoramus. I have worked in teaching hospitals and I know what I am talking about.

If a city is large enough to have a teaching hospital, you can be sure there are non-teaching hospitals as well. If the care a patient needs is only available at a teaching hospital then examinations by residents goes with the territory.

Also, hard as it may be to believe, your vagina is not that prized possession that residents and medical students are longing to delve into, especially during child birth or during surgery.

[Anonymous]

What is hard about obtaining the patient's consent for a training-related pelvic exam prior to the procedure? You would obtain consent if the patient was awake, how does being unconscious change that? You have to get consent to do the procedure anyway.

Over 50% of the women in the survey the researcher in the podcast did said they would consent to it if they were asked.

I would consent to it if I didn't have a pelvic pain disorder. I haven't had gynecological surgery but if I ever do I will tell them I don't want any extra exams. It's riskier for me. Patients deserve to have a say over what happens to their body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am just amazed at the claptrap posted here.

I know physicians at teaching hospitals who make it clear that residents WILL be involved in the care of the patient and if the patient is not comfortable with their involvement s/he should find another doctor. How exactly does the next generation of doctors get trained if patients forbid residents and medical students to participate in their care?

The point is CONSENT explicitly to multiple pelvic exams while unconscious. You are just okay with people doing whatever they want with your body?

Multiple pelvic examinations is nonsense. How many residents do you think are in an OR at the same time? Usually just one .........

But a patient is entitled to refuse examination by a resident and a doctor is entitled to tell that patient to find another physician/hospital. Let me repeat: how exactly does the next generation of doctors get trained if patients forbid residents and medical students to participate in their care?

You do realize that a woman can get medical services at a non-teaching hospital and if she does that, the problem is solved.

You have no idea what you are talking about
1. there may also be med student involved so that more than one person
2. there may be other residents
3. sometimes you dont have the option to not go to a teaching hospital
4. so i guess your saying anything goes for the sake of teaching!

Okay great- lets just have doctors do whatever they want just to "learn" and be "taught." They could easily learn on CONSENTING females and standardized patients. OR they could ask clearly and make sure the patient knows what will happen and who to call for compensation for any damages done down there by untrained med students

You really are an ignoramus. I have worked in teaching hospitals and I know what I am talking about.

If a city is large enough to have a teaching hospital, you can be sure there are non-teaching hospitals as well. If the care a patient needs is only available at a teaching hospital then examinations by residents goes with the territory.

Also, hard as it may be to believe, your vagina is not that prized possession that residents and medical students are longing to delve into, especially during child birth or during surgery.

EVERYONE here should take note of the above NASTY doctor. I bet he tries to be Mr. Polite in public, but this is who many of them are underneath their white coats.

You have EXPOSED yourself here. Patients beware. Don't go in alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
EVERYONE here should take note of the above NASTY doctor. I bet he tries to be Mr. Polite in public, but this is who many of them are underneath their white coats.

You have EXPOSED yourself here. Patients beware. Don't go in alone.

What should be noted is this ludicrous poster who actually thinks a non-patient will be allowed in the operating room!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
EVERYONE here should take note of the above NASTY doctor. I bet he tries to be Mr. Polite in public, but this is who many of them are underneath their white coats.

You have EXPOSED yourself here. Patients beware. Don't go in alone.

What should be noted is this ludicrous poster who actually thinks a non-patient will be allowed in the operating room!

If a woman wants her husband there for her C-Section, it's usually fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am just amazed at the claptrap posted here.

I know physicians at teaching hospitals who make it clear that residents WILL be involved in the care of the patient and if the patient is not comfortable with their involvement s/he should find another doctor. How exactly does the next generation of doctors get trained if patients forbid residents and medical students to participate in their care?

The point is CONSENT explicitly to multiple pelvic exams while unconscious. You are just okay with people doing whatever they want with your body?

Multiple pelvic examinations is nonsense. How many residents do you think are in an OR at the same time? Usually just one .........

But a patient is entitled to refuse examination by a resident and a doctor is entitled to tell that patient to find another physician/hospital. Let me repeat: how exactly does the next generation of doctors get trained if patients forbid residents and medical students to participate in their care?

You do realize that a woman can get medical services at a non-teaching hospital and if she does that, the problem is solved.

You have no idea what you are talking about
1. there may also be med student involved so that more than one person
2. there may be other residents
3. sometimes you dont have the option to not go to a teaching hospital
4. so i guess your saying anything goes for the sake of teaching!

Okay great- lets just have doctors do whatever they want just to "learn" and be "taught." They could easily learn on CONSENTING females and standardized patients. OR they could ask clearly and make sure the patient knows what will happen and who to call for compensation for any damages done down there by untrained med students

You really are an ignoramus. I have worked in teaching hospitals and I know what I am talking about.

If a city is large enough to have a teaching hospital, you can be sure there are non-teaching hospitals as well. If the care a patient needs is only available at a teaching hospital then examinations by residents goes with the territory.

Also, hard as it may be to believe, your vagina is not that prized possession that residents and medical students are longing to delve into, especially during child birth or during surgery.

EVERYONE here should take note of the above NASTY doctor. I bet he tries to be Mr. Polite in public, but this is who many of them are underneath their white coats.

You have EXPOSED yourself here. Patients beware. Don't go in alone.

Firstly, how do you know it is a "he"? This says a lot about you, assuming that the above is written by a man.

Secondly, the writer of the post is anonymous. Did the person claim to be a physician? How do you know this person is even real and posting reliable information?

Thirdly, how do you know consent was not given in the cases quoted by some people? Do you know the details of what transpired to even claim rape or assault.

I wish we all get our facts straight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
EVERYONE here should take note of the above NASTY doctor. I bet he tries to be Mr. Polite in public, but this is who many of them are underneath their white coats.

You have EXPOSED yourself here. Patients beware. Don't go in alone.

What should be noted is this ludicrous poster who actually thinks a non-patient will be allowed in the operating room!

If a woman wants her husband there for her C-Section, it's usually fine.

Certainly not everywhere is this the case. Patients don’t usually get to dictate who’s in the OR.

[Anonymous]

Teaching hospitals have two primary goals: first, they provide quality care to patients including services that may not be available elsewhere and second, they perform a vital role in fostering the education of future doctors.

A patient who goes to a teaching hospital must be cognizant of those goals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teaching hospitals have two primary goals: first, they provide quality care to patients including services that may not be available elsewhere and second, they perform a vital role in fostering the education of future doctors.

A patient who goes to a teaching hospital must be cognizant of those goals.

Most patients don't go into a hospital to benefit the overpaid doctors who own it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teaching hospitals have two primary goals: first, they provide quality care to patients including services that may not be available elsewhere and second, they perform a vital role in fostering the education of future doctors.

A patient who goes to a teaching hospital must be cognizant of those goals.

Most patients don't go into a hospital to benefit the overpaid doctors who own it.

Teaching hospitals are not owned by physicians.

Why do people make comments that merely demonstrates their ignorance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
EVERYONE here should take note of the above NASTY doctor. I bet he tries to be Mr. Polite in public, but this is who many of them are underneath their white coats.

You have EXPOSED yourself here. Patients beware. Don't go in alone.

What should be noted is this ludicrous poster who actually thinks a non-patient will be allowed in the operating room!

If a woman wants her husband there for her C-Section, it's usually fine.

Certainly not everywhere is this the case. Patients don’t usually get to dictate who’s in the OR.

Smart people avoid bad places like yours.

Smart consumers choose the best places to accommodate their preferences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
EVERYONE here should take note of the above NASTY doctor. I bet he tries to be Mr. Polite in public, but this is who many of them are underneath their white coats.

You have EXPOSED yourself here. Patients beware. Don't go in alone.

What should be noted is this ludicrous poster who actually thinks a non-patient will be allowed in the operating room!

If a woman wants her husband there for her C-Section, it's usually fine.

Certainly not everywhere is this the case. Patients don’t usually get to dictate who’s in the OR.

Smart people avoid bad places like yours.

Smart consumers choose the best places to accommodate their preferences.

If you find yourself in a medical emergency you likely won't choose your hospital, doctors or even have a chance to get a second opinion before you get sucked into the medical abyss.