Pelvic exams on unconscious women

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s a question? Is Sibley considered a teaching hospital? I had a gym procedure there in 2004 where I was under anesthesia (not general but it was like an amnesiac I think). The doctor asked at the last minute if I’d be okay with residents or students observing and I said yes because I felt put on the spot. I was sort of shocked when I saw because it turned out to be a huge group but I didn’t feel like I could retract my permission at that point. I remember when I “woke up” I was sobbing.
I don’t think of Sibley as a teaching hospital, but is it possible that some of the students practiced on me?
Maybe unrelated, but in my first pregnancy (a year or two later), I had a rare complication that is often associated with previous uterine damage.

Your last paragraph has nothing to do with your previous paragraphs. Totally illogical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heads up that this continues to be a practice which is incredibly upsetting when you go in for surgery. Some med students don’t know what they are doing so the thought of being violated in this way is terrible. This American life apparently did a segment on this recently. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/05/14/pelvic-exams-on-anesthetized-women-without-consent-a-troubling-and-outdated-practice/amp/

And this is why I have not gotten a colonoscopy yet.

We need to get informed about this stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heads up that this continues to be a practice which is incredibly upsetting when you go in for surgery. Some med students don’t know what they are doing so the thought of being violated in this way is terrible. This American life apparently did a segment on this recently. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/05/14/pelvic-exams-on-anesthetized-women-without-consent-a-troubling-and-outdated-practice/amp/

And this is why I have not gotten a colonoscopy yet.

As someone asked, "How is this not rape?"

[Anonymous]

It is 2019 and this practice is still legal. Spread the word.

[Anonymous]

I remain totally horrified by this, but am so relieved that this is illegal in Virginia. I’m a patient at Inova (a teaching hospital) and have had several procedures under general anesthesia and I always check YES to help students learn. Just adding this for other folks who live in VA who may have started feeling horrified and paranoid. I remain horrified that this practice occurs in the vast majority of states and it needs to change. Does this happen in other developed countries or is it only condoned in the US?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This is EXACTLY why you NEVER
leave your loved one ALONE in a hospital!

You NEVER know WHAT they're doing to them.
Hospitals are NOT safe places.

Just saying the truth.
Buyer BEWARE.

This is in surgery genius.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heads up that this continues to be a practice which is incredibly upsetting when you go in for surgery. Some med students don’t know what they are doing so the thought of being violated in this way is terrible. This American life apparently did a segment on this recently. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/05/14/pelvic-exams-on-anesthetized-women-without-consent-a-troubling-and-outdated-practice/amp/

And this is why I have not gotten a colonoscopy yet.

As someone asked, "How is this not rape?"

Question for you, 14:00. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s a question? Is Sibley considered a teaching hospital? I had a gym procedure there in 2004 where I was under anesthesia (not general but it was like an amnesiac I think). The doctor asked at the last minute if I’d be okay with residents or students observing and I said yes because I felt put on the spot. I was sort of shocked when I saw because it turned out to be a huge group but I didn’t feel like I could retract my permission at that point. I remember when I “woke up” I was sobbing.
I don’t think of Sibley as a teaching hospital, but is it possible that some of the students practiced on me?
Maybe unrelated, but in my first pregnancy (a year or two later), I had a rare complication that is often associated with previous uterine damage.

Your last paragraph has nothing to do with your previous paragraphs. Totally illogical.

You response was not very kind, or very helpful.
Here's the logic. The procedure I had done was a D&C for a missed miscarriage (my first and only D&C). The condition that I had a year or two later is correlated with people that have had multiple D&C's or previous uterine rupture/scarring. If the D&C was done poorly, or if the med students were given an opportunity to do some of it, I guess it might have increased the chances that I would get the condition that I did get. (For people without previous risk factors, it was like a 1 in a thousand or smaller chance, so it was pretty weird that I got it.) I don't know that they even touched me, much less assisted in the actual procedure. But I was kind of grossed out when I realized how many people had been present, and the idea (even 15 years later) that they were touching me is even grosser.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is making me wonder about every doctor, male or female, that I know. Did they do this!?

I'm glad I didn't know about this before the surgery I had recently. Non-gynological, thank goodness.

I have almost always chosen women doctors for myself and kids, but for specialists, I have had some men. My current cardiologist is excellent and took precautions I hadn't even thought to ask about - for my first exam with him he brought a nurse in, who just quietly stood against the wall to be witness. I have no idea if it is legally required or not, but I appreciated it.

Had a conversation with hubby (who is a surgeon) and some of his surgeon friends. No one had known of this practice in the OR, where they had unfettered access to touch, grope, feel a woman. When I mentioned this, they were quite surprised and shocked. They said the only time they had "access" to look/touch at a female or male in such manner was if there were volunteers (note: not patients) who knowingly permitted it but they said this was few and far. FWIW, hubby and his friends are not OBGYNs so I cannot comment on what transpires there.

Two physicians in my family - both anesthesiologists working at teaching hospitals - and they said in all their years they had never witnessed anything such as is described. Yes, internal examinations may take place but it would be limited to one or two residents at the most and it would be under supervision.

So.... they are saying yes, that is EXACTLY what happens, then.... pelvic exams without consent....

[Anonymous]

Just an update on this

Consent before medical exams: SB 909 — Health care practitioners will be required to obtain informed consent before performing prostate, rectal or pelvic exams on patients who are unconscious or under anesthesia. Citing Forbes, the state’s Department of Legislative Services notes some “troubling cases” in which medical students and trainees have performed pelvic exams without the patient’s consent. Maryland becomes the sixth state to enact such a requirement. — Ian Round

https://wtop.com/maryland/2019/09/new-laws-that-take-effect-in-md-on-oct-1/

[Anonymous]

Hospitals are not the cleanest place to be too when you are sick. My dirty home might be cleaner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hospitals are not the cleanest place to be too when you are sick. My dirty home might be cleaner.

Exactly. Who knows where those gloves have been?

[Anonymous]

It’s 2022 and the practice exists... spread the word please.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/17/health/pelvic-medical-exam-unconscious.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

“ Dr. Friesen learned about the subject while leading a bioethics seminar at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, where she heard a narrative from some students that amounted to, “I can put my hand in this woman’s vagina because it helps with my training.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s 2022 and the practice exists... spread the word please.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/17/health/pelvic-medical-exam-unconscious.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

“ Dr. Friesen learned about the subject while leading a bioethics seminar at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, where she heard a narrative from some students that amounted to, “I can put my hand in this woman’s vagina because it helps with my training.”

[Anonymous]

Fine 2020 but it will still exist in 2022 if nothing is done