Shooting in Munich

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alienation is a common theme in the young. Catcher in the Rye is based on it. But when people feel empowered by the chauvinistic/nihilistic threads in a movement they are capable of doing this - killing children eating their dinner. Neo Nazis are the same way, but they mostly have found comfort just in being with each other in modern times, a limited clubhouse. These people are operating alone, seeking that community in the after life I guess. Suicidal attack in Muslim culture goes back centuries. The word assassin comes from 'hashish eaters'--which they were fed before they went on their suicidal missions. It's like the Roman empire and barbarians. And the Roman empire was soft and decadent and lost that round. Western world wake up. You have not declared war on Islamic extremism. It has declared war on you.

Quite a bit of your history is wrong. "Assassins" is derived from the Arabic Hashashin, but that refers to the Nizari Ismaili sect of Islam. That group is an offshoot of Shia Islam which itself is a minority group of Muslims. The primary targets of the Assassins were Sunni Muslims (though Genghis Khan and Richard the Lionheart were other prominent targets) and the group really has nothing to do with Muslim culture as a whole.

Part of the fabric of the history. Thanks for expanding further.

Actually, I'm not sure how a thing you said shows I am wrong nor am I interested in pettily arguing small details though its interesting to hear more details. The word assassination in English etymologically comes from a moment in Islamic history.fact.
I'm not saying they invented the concept of assassinations but it was employed enough and in a distinct enough fashion to coin a word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A murderous criminal won't be too concerned about gun ownership laws or gun free zones.

The issue is the ideology behind these attacks.

Why not both?

What's the ideology behind Sandy Hook, Columbine, Virginia Tech, the Dark Knight guy?

There are a few new books on Columbine that are out, and I don't want to do a spoiler so 'spoiler alert' but there is a recent very good (and its crazy to say but entertaining overall) novel with " luckiest" in the title that explores this..if you googled that and school shooting you would come across it. It helped me understand how disaffection could lead to this. Look, this is not new. Wasn't there a shooter from a tower in a Texas university in the 70s? Steven King wrote a chilling short story about it. Disaffection is not new.we have a problem in the United States and parents, teachers, administrators are now on the lookout (or should be) for patterns that show troubling indicators -very disturbed writing, smaller behaviors that can lead to bigger ones, mental health issues. They also know the value of keeping kids connected, looking out for bullying (though frankly these kids often perceive they were bullied when they were not)etc. The same needs to be applied to these second generation immigrant killers, but their own communities need to be armed with more information about what to look for and intervention tools and be willing to use them. I think that's why a reaction of defensiveness bothers so many people. We need to acknowledge there is a problem so we can dive in together to help.

[jsteele]

Latest details of the shooting:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/23/munich-shooting-teenage-gunman-researched-killing-sprees-no-isis-links

"The lone teenager who shot dead nine people and injured 27 others in Munich had researched school killing sprees and attempted to lure victims to the scene of his rampage with an offer of free food on social media, officials have said."

"Officials added that the gunman, who has been named locally as Ali Sonboly, had likely been in psychiatric care and there were indicators he had been treated for depression." (Note, "Ali" is a Shia name so we can be sure this had nothing to do with ISIS).

"Classmates of Sonboly told the Guardian he had been bullied at school, while neighbours described him as shy and lazy." (Note, this is consistent with what the gunman yelled from the parking garage).

"Officials said the searches had revealed no links to Islamic State, and suggested the attack was unlikely to have been motivated by Islamist extremism. They said they had found newspaper clippings and books related to killing sprees, one of which was believed to be a textbook called Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters."

So, this looks more like Columbine or Sandy Hook than a terrorist attack.

Also, this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/prosecutor-munich-attack-appears-to-be-classic-shooting-rampage-and-not-terrorism/2016/07/23/1911f094-50bd-11e6-bf27-405106836f96_story.html

"Prosecutor: Munich attack appears to be ‘classic shooting rampage’ and not terrorism."

[Anonymous]

So he's not a second generation Muslim immigrant then? Glad to hear he doesn't fit the mold.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:So he's not a second generation Muslim immigrant then? Glad to hear he doesn't fit the mold.

I'm not sure what mold you think he doesn't fit? He fits the disaffected, bullied, school boy suffering from depression mold pretty well.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he's not a second generation Muslim immigrant then? Glad to hear he doesn't fit the mold.

I'm not sure what mold you think he doesn't fit? He fits the disaffected, bullied, school boy suffering from depression mold pretty well.

I just meant that a lot of these types of killings have been done by second generation Muslims. That's what I meant by "mold."

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Latest details of the shooting:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/23/munich-shooting-teenage-gunman-researched-killing-sprees-no-isis-links

"The lone teenager who shot dead nine people and injured 27 others in Munich had researched school killing sprees and attempted to lure victims to the scene of his rampage with an offer of free food on social media, officials have said."

"Officials added that the gunman, who has been named locally as Ali Sonboly, had likely been in psychiatric care and there were indicators he had been treated for depression." (Note, "Ali" is a Shia name so we can be sure this had nothing to do with ISIS).

"Classmates of Sonboly told the Guardian he had been bullied at school, while neighbours described him as shy and lazy." (Note, this is consistent with what the gunman yelled from the parking garage).

"Officials said the searches had revealed no links to Islamic State, and suggested the attack was unlikely to have been motivated by Islamist extremism. They said they had found newspaper clippings and books related to killing sprees, one of which was believed to be a textbook called Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters."

So, this looks more like Columbine or Sandy Hook than a terrorist attack.

Also, this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/prosecutor-munich-attack-appears-to-be-classic-shooting-rampage-and-not-terrorism/2016/07/23/1911f094-50bd-11e6-bf27-405106836f96_story.html

"Prosecutor: Munich attack appears to be ‘classic shooting rampage’ and not terrorism."

Well, if his name is Ali, then of course it's impossible for this to be related to ISIS. Eye roll.

A 19 year old American named Shannon Conley tried to join ISIS. That name is about as Irish catholic as it gets, and she fell for the propaganda.

I'm not saying this guy was affiliated with ISIS, but I do think that's a rather ridiculous statement to make.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he's not a second generation Muslim immigrant then? Glad to hear he doesn't fit the mold.

I'm not sure what mold you think he doesn't fit? He fits the disaffected, bullied, school boy suffering from depression mold pretty well.

I just meant that a lot of these types of killings have been done by second generation Muslims. That's what I meant by "mold."

No, he doesn't seem to fit that mold. In the video recorded at the parking garage, the shooter described himself as German and complained about being bullied. He never mentioned Islam. Also, the German authorities don't believe the attack was motivated by Islamist extremism.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he's not a second generation Muslim immigrant then? Glad to hear he doesn't fit the mold.

I'm not sure what mold you think he doesn't fit? He fits the disaffected, bullied, school boy suffering from depression mold pretty well.

And he fits the second generation can't fit in turn my anger outward mold. Both molds.

Btw - I will be interested to hear more about the bullying. It turned out the Columbine kids were quite popular. I have no doubt he may have been bullied - wondering if it was typical in the poor neighborhood (everyone bulied?) or if he was singled out . And then to ask, why wasn't he resilient? Millions are bullied without doing this (NOT excusing bullying). What other causalities were in the picture?

Again, instead of denial society can actually start to build a profile that leads to recognition, cooperation with the community and intervention. But first the denial HAS to stop. Have you heard of the Denmark policing outreach?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Latest details of the shooting:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/23/munich-shooting-teenage-gunman-researched-killing-sprees-no-isis-links

"The lone teenager who shot dead nine people and injured 27 others in Munich had researched school killing sprees and attempted to lure victims to the scene of his rampage with an offer of free food on social media, officials have said."

"Officials added that the gunman, who has been named locally as Ali Sonboly, had likely been in psychiatric care and there were indicators he had been treated for depression." (Note, "Ali" is a Shia name so we can be sure this had nothing to do with ISIS).

"Classmates of Sonboly told the Guardian he had been bullied at school, while neighbours described him as shy and lazy." (Note, this is consistent with what the gunman yelled from the parking garage).

"Officials said the searches had revealed no links to Islamic State, and suggested the attack was unlikely to have been motivated by Islamist extremism. They said they had found newspaper clippings and books related to killing sprees, one of which was believed to be a textbook called Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters."

So, this looks more like Columbine or Sandy Hook than a terrorist attack.

Also, this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/prosecutor-munich-attack-appears-to-be-classic-shooting-rampage-and-not-terrorism/2016/07/23/1911f094-50bd-11e6-bf27-405106836f96_story.html

"Prosecutor: Munich attack appears to be ‘classic shooting rampage’ and not terrorism."

Well, if his name is Ali, then of course it's impossible for this to be related to ISIS. Eye roll.

A 19 year old American named Shannon Conley tried to join ISIS. That name is about as Irish catholic as it gets, and she fell for the propaganda.

I'm not saying this guy was affiliated with ISIS, but I do think that's a rather ridiculous statement to make.

It is a ridiculous statement to you because you don't have a very deep understanding ISIS/Shia dynamics. It would be more like Shannon Conley trying to join an Irish protestant militia at the height of the troubles.

[Anonymous]

You can't apply any solutions until you acknowledge a problem. Europe (and now America) has a second generation immigrant disaffection hatred problem. I have no issue with screenings at the front end and the good FBI it other security agency work at the back end once these.kids go over to plotting evil, but if we could get in before it is on the march, it would be great. I think we should also use returnees and repentees to beret affect. And we need to develop some warning signs protocols and community interventions for the kids who are here now.

First we need to acknowledge and name the problem though.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/denmark-de-radicalization-n355346

[Anonymous]

The common denominator: hate + guns = death

Let's work on both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he's not a second generation Muslim immigrant then? Glad to hear he doesn't fit the mold.

I'm not sure what mold you think he doesn't fit? He fits the disaffected, bullied, school boy suffering from depression mold pretty well.

I just meant that a lot of these types of killings have been done by second generation Muslims. That's what I meant by "mold."

Your desperation to shoehorn this into something it's not is staggering. Guess what, it isn't Radical Islamic Terrorism. Sorry to disappoint you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The common denominator: hate + guns = death

Let's work on both.

Think of how many lives this would've saved in Nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he's not a second generation Muslim immigrant then? Glad to hear he doesn't fit the mold.

I'm not sure what mold you think he doesn't fit? He fits the disaffected, bullied, school boy suffering from depression mold pretty well.

I just meant that a lot of these types of killings have been done by second generation Muslims. That's what I meant by "mold."

Your desperation to shoehorn this into something it's not is staggering. Guess what, it isn't Radical Islamic Terrorism. Sorry to disappoint you.

But it is a second generation Muslim.immigrant lashing out at the west from which he felt mistreated. Do you think he lived in a box and hadn't heard of any of the recent mass events?