Shooting in Munich

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: It's totally acceptable. Except huge portions of the Muslim world are not in any way secular or 'easter/christmas' Muslims (using the Christian analogy). Where are the large groups of fully practicing moderate Muslims was my question?

There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. They're everywhere, but it seems like you prefer to believe they are not.

+1. How do you KNOW there aren't other places with secular or easter/Christmas Muslims? Are you some sort of authority on religious practices? Or do you think the entire middle east is Saudi -- which I as a Muslim consider batshit. If you need actual countries/cities -- HUGE group of non practicing/secular/cafeteria Muslims in Egypt; Dubai; Jordan. Of course you won't believe me bc in your mind, no way can a Middle Eastern Muslim be non practicing. Also I think you're overlooking the U.S. also.

Again, where are the moderate practicing Muslims and who is their spokesperson/authority?

Basically, you are telling me to be moderate you have to be a non practicing Muslim. Thats startling.

Who's telling you moderate = non practicing? Some of my Muslim friends pray 5 times a day and observe Ramadan as instructed. They're not crazy, or talking about infidels.

Also, Islam is more about a personal relationship with God than Christianity. There's no praying to saints or pope to follow. Imams lead prayer, not give fire and brimstone sermons. I'm sure they do some counseling too, but it's not like Christianity. My friends don't regularly attend prayers at a mosque. They go pray and break their fast together a few days during Ramadan.

There is no spokesperson or leader for the followers of Islam. If you can wrap your head around different priorities in practicing their religion, this would be easier to understand. I am a devout atheist. I know about Islam because I've made the time to study about religions. I recommend you do the same. If you even took the time to read about Ramadan and Eid, you would understand a whole lot more. A comparative look at religions is not going to help you. See it from another perspective.

So it falls upon each practicioner and community to be a voice for tolerance, bottom up? I think this is what's confusing for those of us who are continually told that Islam is a moderate religion of peace and extremism is a rare misinterpretation/deviation. It is if you choose it but there is no spokesperson who says its so.

How did the rally go yesterday? I admire that if it occurred--especially in this heat. Any news coverage or links or anyone here who participated?

[Anonymous]

http://presstv.ir/Detail/2016/07/24/476707/US-protest-American-Muslim-March-on-Washington-

OK, it was a tiny group. But I admire them in this heat and also in this security climate. It's a start.
When is the next one? Who speaks for this group?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you an authority on religions to actually make the statement "easter/Christmas Muslims." That is a Christian concept and obviously doesn't apply to secular Muslims. There are plenty of those, particularly Iranians, but you might want to re-consider how you describe them.

That was explained in a tongue and cheek way a few pages back as an analogy..do you know what an analogy is? I am not asking about them though. I am not asking about people who dial.into their faith a few times a year. I am asking where to find fully practicing, devout moderate Muslims. I am not saying they don't exists. I expect there are whole countries of them. Communities that eschew anything and everything that would be considered extreme or fundamentalist. People are saying extreme acts are the deviation from the moderate faith. I am just asking to rattle off the countries and institutions where I will find practicing, devout people of moderate, tolerant views. I am hoping these same entities will take up the baton in projecting a hopeful and tolerant counter message to notions like it would ever be OK to kill civilians etc. Anyways, its obvious you cannot provide the answer and thats OK. I just wanted to clarify what my question was. It was not about the secular, though they have a role too. Have a good day.

Of course, I understand an analogy. I simply though your analogy was stupid. Go to the Islamic Center on Massachusetts Avenue on any Friday and you will find many followers of Islam practicing their religion in a moderate to orthodox way. Go to the Dar Al-Hijrah Islamic Center in Falls Church and you will find many followers of Islam practing their religion in a moderate to orthodox way.

While you are at it, stop at any church, temple, or synagogue and find people of many religions practicing their religion in a moderate to orthodox way. Just don't mention to those of the Jewish faith that they are "Easter/Christmas Jews."

[Anonymous]

I think I'll mention what I want, thanks--it was a very easy to understand analogy.

Ad to moderate to orthodox--I am asking for the communities of moderate views that are practicioners. Those that condemn killing civilians under all circumstances 100%. Those that may have disagreed with Charlie Hedbo, Sirsan Ali etc. but 100% support their right to free speech. Those that support 100% equal treatment for women and daughters etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This article says support for the IRA was extreme limited.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ira/reports/america.html

As limited as they were, it goes to show that some white Americans do support terrorists.

There are over 1 billion Muslims in this world. I doubt a vast majority of them support terrorism, especially given that most of the victims of terrorist acts in Muslim countries are Muslims themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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My two cents: the fact that any percentage doesn't detest ISIS says something. And the fact that anyone thinks violent terrorist acts are sometimes justified is also appalling.

Stats like those are worrisome and foster skepticism about the religion.

You may not remember, but Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist in South Africa. Sinn Fein (an Irish group) also committed terrorist acts against the British. In one case, they killed British WWII Veterans during a WWII commemoration march. These were old veterans, not modern day soldiers.

Some extremist Muslims are not the only ones who believe that violent acts are sometimes justified.

?

What's your point? There's no need to tell us that terrorism isn't limited to Islamic extremists...we get that.

But your standard argument of "well, other people do horrific things, too" really doesn't help your case. SMH.

What case? I don't condone what terrorists do. But, I am reminding people any group of people can be guilty of condoning violent acts when they feel it is justified. This is not limited to extremists Muslims, or even because of religious reasons.

The point was to the original PP " And the fact that anyone thinks violent terrorist acts are sometimes justified is also appalling." -- I'm reminding Americans that a person whom now the world considers a wonderful person committed terrorists acts. I also forgot to mention that some Irish Americans supported the IRA - the terrorist group - with cash and weapons. So, even some Americans believe violent acts are sometimes justified and have even supported terrorists.

We are too quick to point fingers and find fault in other religions and cultures and forget our own faults and follies. It's called hypocrisy.

And by the way, I find your words "even some Americans..." Very revealing. We are talking about some Americans - Muslim Americans who answered the Pew Poll.

Here's the point: there are even some white Americans who supported white terrorists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article says support for the IRA was extreme limited.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ira/reports/america.html

As limited as they were, it goes to show that some white Americans do support terrorists.

There are over 1 billion Muslims in this world. I doubt a vast majority of them support terrorism, especially given that most of the victims of terrorist acts in Muslim countries are Muslims themselves.

Except some of this is different sects battling each other --

[Anonymous]

What are the moderate Islamic countries where Jews, Christians and homosexuals enjoy the same freedom to 'be' as Muslims enjoy in the West? I am guessing there are some--Tunisia? Jordan? I just want to know where the voice and example of tolerance might arise within the faith community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you an authority on religions to actually make the statement "easter/Christmas Muslims." That is a Christian concept and obviously doesn't apply to secular Muslims. There are plenty of those, particularly Iranians, but you might want to re-consider how you describe them.

That was explained in a tongue and cheek way a few pages back as an analogy..do you know what an analogy is? I am not asking about them though. I am not asking about people who dial.into their faith a few times a year. I am asking where to find fully practicing, devout moderate Muslims. I am not saying they don't exists. I expect there are whole countries of them. Communities that eschew anything and everything that would be considered extreme or fundamentalist. People are saying extreme acts are the deviation from the moderate faith. I am just asking to rattle off the countries and institutions where I will find practicing, devout people of moderate, tolerant views. I am hoping these same entities will take up the baton in projecting a hopeful and tolerant counter message to notions like it would ever be OK to kill civilians etc. Anyways, its obvious you cannot provide the answer and thats OK. I just wanted to clarify what my question was. It was not about the secular, though they have a role too. Have a good day.

You seem not to want to hear the answers -- outside the US -- look to Jordan and Dubai (UAE) for starters, then look at Egypt. LOTS of Muslims there who ARE practicing but NOT extreme in any way. How quickly memories fade -- Jordan was bombing the shit out of ISIS last yr.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article says support for the IRA was extreme limited.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ira/reports/america.html

As limited as they were, it goes to show that some white Americans do support terrorists.

There are over 1 billion Muslims in this world. I doubt a vast majority of them support terrorism, especially given that most of the victims of terrorist acts in Muslim countries are Muslims themselves.

Let's say only 1% support terrorism. That's ten million. That's a lot of supporters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you an authority on religions to actually make the statement "easter/Christmas Muslims." That is a Christian concept and obviously doesn't apply to secular Muslims. There are plenty of those, particularly Iranians, but you might want to re-consider how you describe them.

That was explained in a tongue and cheek way a few pages back as an analogy..do you know what an analogy is? I am not asking about them though. I am not asking about people who dial.into their faith a few times a year. I am asking where to find fully practicing, devout moderate Muslims. I am not saying they don't exists. I expect there are whole countries of them. Communities that eschew anything and everything that would be considered extreme or fundamentalist. People are saying extreme acts are the deviation from the moderate faith. I am just asking to rattle off the countries and institutions where I will find practicing, devout people of moderate, tolerant views. I am hoping these same entities will take up the baton in projecting a hopeful and tolerant counter message to notions like it would ever be OK to kill civilians etc. Anyways, its obvious you cannot provide the answer and thats OK. I just wanted to clarify what my question was. It was not about the secular, though they have a role too. Have a good day.

You seem not to want to hear the answers -- outside the US -- look to Jordan and Dubai (UAE) for starters, then look at Egypt. LOTS of Muslims there who ARE practicing but NOT extreme in any way. How quickly memories fade -- Jordan was bombing the shit out of ISIS last yr.

I do want to hear the answers. I am feeling kind of sad. It is starting to seem kind of bankrupt to me. I am glad that the tiny countries of Jordan and UAE can lead the way. Maybe when people see how much better the quality of life is there, they will actually want to follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are the moderate Islamic countries where Jews, Christians and homosexuals enjoy the same freedom to 'be' as Muslims enjoy in the West? I am guessing there are some--Tunisia? Jordan? I just want to know where the voice and example of tolerance might arise within the faith community.

You do realize that it hasn't been that long in this country since laws against sodomy and intermarriage between people of different races were enforced in certain states, right? Or laws against cohabitation of two unmarried people of the opposite sex? (See Virginia) Laws that were enacted because of Christian values.

Hell, it's only been 50 years since segregation was outlawed. In the scheme of things, that is nothing.

I don't condone the constrictions on freedom in other areas of the world. But it's disingenuous not to acknowledge how close we ourselves are to our discriminatory past. And there are plenty of Americans who in the name of Christianity would like to go back to some of the practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article says support for the IRA was extreme limited.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ira/reports/america.html

As limited as they were, it goes to show that some white Americans do support terrorists.

There are over 1 billion Muslims in this world. I doubt a vast majority of them support terrorism, especially given that most of the victims of terrorist acts in Muslim countries are Muslims themselves.

Let's say only 1% support terrorism. That's ten million. That's a lot of supporters.

Yes, that is true. And, imagine if there were a billion Irish people in this world. How many do you think would've supported the IRA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are the moderate Islamic countries where Jews, Christians and homosexuals enjoy the same freedom to 'be' as Muslims enjoy in the West? I am guessing there are some--Tunisia? Jordan? I just want to know where the voice and example of tolerance might arise within the faith community.

You do realize that it hasn't been that long in this country since laws against sodomy and intermarriage between people of different races were enforced in certain states, right? Or laws against cohabitation of two unmarried people of the opposite sex? (See Virginia) Laws that were enacted because of Christian values.

Hell, it's only been 50 years since segregation was outlawed. In the scheme of things, that is nothing.

I don't condone the constrictions on freedom in other areas of the world. But it's disingenuous not to acknowledge how close we ourselves are to our discriminatory past. And there are plenty of Americans who in the name of Christianity would like to go back to some of the practices.

Interesting history - how is that relevant

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article says support for the IRA was extreme limited.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ira/reports/america.html

As limited as they were, it goes to show that some white Americans do support terrorists.

There are over 1 billion Muslims in this world. I doubt a vast majority of them support terrorism, especially given that most of the victims of terrorist acts in Muslim countries are Muslims themselves.

Let's say only 1% support terrorism. That's ten million. That's a lot of supporters.

Yes, that is true. And, imagine if there were a billion Irish people in this world. How many do you think would've supported the IRA?

I must be missing a headline. Are there daily attacks from the IRA happening all over the world today?