Help me to understand transgender identity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be perfectly okay with everybody, male and female, all just using unisex bathrooms. I have a tween daughter, but she has a father and brothers, so an accidental glimpse of something isn't going to be a big deal. However, I am struggling with how to explain the idea of transgenderism to her, more so than her brothers, because I am very uncomfortable with the gender stereotypes that are inherent in the idea that someone feels like a man or a woman on the inside. What does that mean? It seems mostly cultural. I don't want her to absorb the idea, one that was pushed on me as a young girl and young woman interested in a field of work that was not traditionally female (or any type of work at all, according to my family), that being a girl on the inside means that you like certain subjects at school, certain colors, certain types of books, or sports, etc.

A transgender person isn't necessarily gay. Just like Caitlyn Jenner who said she would continue to date women then went back on it a year later and said she would think of dating men well if she's attracted to women still then she'll be attracted to the women she's using the bathroom with and if she's pre-op well then that is where things would get weird.

Right. So, you have people like Laverne Cox's character Sophia on OITNB, who was a straight man, and is now a lesbian. And you have people like Carmen Carrera, who was a gay man, and now is a straight woman.

Where you lost me was "things getting weird" when someone is attracted to someone else in the bathroom. Surely, that happens sometimes when people of the same birth gender use the bathroom. Is it awkward for gay men or lesbians? It's certainly something that would merit a conversation in a relationship whether a trans* person is pre- or post-op.

If the tg person still has their penis and is attracted to and dating women and using the same bathroom whose to say a straight man wont enter the bathroom dressed as a woman to rape a woman? Rape is very common.

This can happen NOW. You realize that right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be perfectly okay with everybody, male and female, all just using unisex bathrooms. I have a tween daughter, but she has a father and brothers, so an accidental glimpse of something isn't going to be a big deal. However, I am struggling with how to explain the idea of transgenderism to her, more so than her brothers, because I am very uncomfortable with the gender stereotypes that are inherent in the idea that someone feels like a man or a woman on the inside. What does that mean? It seems mostly cultural. I don't want her to absorb the idea, one that was pushed on me as a young girl and young woman interested in a field of work that was not traditionally female (or any type of work at all, according to my family), that being a girl on the inside means that you like certain subjects at school, certain colors, certain types of books, or sports, etc.

A transgender person isn't necessarily gay. Just like Caitlyn Jenner who said she would continue to date women then went back on it a year later and said she would think of dating men well if she's attracted to women still then she'll be attracted to the women she's using the bathroom with and if she's pre-op well then that is where things would get weird.

Right. So, you have people like Laverne Cox's character Sophia on OITNB, who was a straight man, and is now a lesbian. And you have people like Carmen Carrera, who was a gay man, and now is a straight woman.

Where you lost me was "things getting weird" when someone is attracted to someone else in the bathroom. Surely, that happens sometimes when people of the same birth gender use the bathroom. Is it awkward for gay men or lesbians? It's certainly something that would merit a conversation in a relationship whether a trans* person is pre- or post-op.

If the tg person still has their penis and is attracted to and dating women and using the same bathroom whose to say a straight man wont enter the bathroom dressed as a woman to rape a woman? Rape is very common.

I don't understand this argument, no matter how many times it's put out there. Rape is illegal, regardless of where it takes place. If a man is a rapist, he should be arrested. What is stopping him from doing so are laws against rape and other violence to human beings.

Non-violent transwomen, who are in the bathroom to pee in a stall =/= rapists.

Transwomen who are made to use a men's room do have violence done against them.

[Anonymous]

To answer the OP: You don't need to understand it. You just need to respect it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be perfectly okay with everybody, male and female, all just using unisex bathrooms. I have a tween daughter, but she has a father and brothers, so an accidental glimpse of something isn't going to be a big deal. However, I am struggling with how to explain the idea of transgenderism to her, more so than her brothers, because I am very uncomfortable with the gender stereotypes that are inherent in the idea that someone feels like a man or a woman on the inside. What does that mean? It seems mostly cultural. I don't want her to absorb the idea, one that was pushed on me as a young girl and young woman interested in a field of work that was not traditionally female (or any type of work at all, according to my family), that being a girl on the inside means that you like certain subjects at school, certain colors, certain types of books, or sports, etc.

A transgender person isn't necessarily gay. Just like Caitlyn Jenner who said she would continue to date women then went back on it a year later and said she would think of dating men well if she's attracted to women still then she'll be attracted to the women she's using the bathroom with and if she's pre-op well then that is where things would get weird.

Right. So, you have people like Laverne Cox's character Sophia on OITNB, who was a straight man, and is now a lesbian. And you have people like Carmen Carrera, who was a gay man, and now is a straight woman.

Where you lost me was "things getting weird" when someone is attracted to someone else in the bathroom. Surely, that happens sometimes when people of the same birth gender use the bathroom. Is it awkward for gay men or lesbians? It's certainly something that would merit a conversation in a relationship whether a trans* person is pre- or post-op.

If the tg person still has their penis and is attracted to and dating women and using the same bathroom whose to say a straight man wont enter the bathroom dressed as a woman to rape a woman? Rape is very common.

I don't understand this argument, no matter how many times it's put out there. Rape is illegal, regardless of where it takes place. If a man is a rapist, he should be arrested. What is stopping him from doing so are laws against rape and other violence to human beings.

Non-violent transwomen, who are in the bathroom to pee in a stall =/= rapists.

Transwomen who are made to use a men's room do have violence done against them.

+1000

This fear about trans women raping in the ladies room is so wildly off the mark. Trans people are far more likely to be the victims of crime than to commit crimes themselves.

And if a straight man plans to dress up as a woman with the intention of raping someone in the ladies restroom, well, we have a law for that. It's a law against rape.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, if you at all believe in science, some things are relatively simple, because they are stated facts. Please don't tell me that I also have to convince you that climate change is real, or perhaps evolution? Are you making up your own facts there, too?

Correct. But according to science, the relationships between chromosomes, genitalia, sex, and gender are actually not simple. Some of us like to believe that they are, but the fact is that they're not.

+1 and op of this comment and others, you ended your own argument when you said no one gets to tell you what you think. You don't get to tell trans* people what to think and what it means for them either. So I guess we all agree on something! Case closed.

Do I "get to tell you" that it's not going to be 90 degrees and sunny outside today? Or that 2 x 3 does not equal 15, no matter how much you wish it did? Or are you going to dispute those fact as well?

No, just like I don't get to tell you that your feelings about yourself are false, or that you're not dressed properly, or that people think you're hideous. See how that works? You stay in your lane, and I'll stay in mine. Your calling things facts don't make them so, you do realize that, right? Wait, I'm sorry, I forgot. For people like you things are ONLY black or white, there are no shades of gray. Simple, simple person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Do I "get to tell you" that it's not going to be 90 degrees and sunny outside today? Or that 2 x 3 does not equal 15, no matter how much you wish it did? Or are you going to dispute those fact as well?

But the stuff you think you know about biology and gender actually isn't fact.

Fact: 2 x 3 = 15. Fact: the sun rises in the east. Fact: there are men with two X chromosomes. Fact: there are women with XY chromosomes. Fact: chromosomes alone do not determine biological sex. Fact: biological sex is not a binary.

Could you please read this article?

http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, if you at all believe in science, some things are relatively simple, because they are stated facts. Please don't tell me that I also have to convince you that climate change is real, or perhaps evolution? Are you making up your own facts there, too?

Correct. But according to science, the relationships between chromosomes, genitalia, sex, and gender are actually not simple. Some of us like to believe that they are, but the fact is that they're not.

+1 and op of this comment and others, you ended your own argument when you said no one gets to tell you what you think. You don't get to tell trans* people what to think and what it means for them either. So I guess we all agree on something! Case closed.

Do I "get to tell you" that it's not going to be 90 degrees and sunny outside today? Or that 2 x 3 does not equal 15, no matter how much you wish it did? Or are you going to dispute those fact as well?

No, just like I don't get to tell you that your feelings about yourself are false, or that you're not dressed properly, or that people think you're hideous. See how that works? You stay in your lane, and I'll stay in mine. Your calling things facts don't make them so, you do realize that, right? Wait, I'm sorry, I forgot. For people like you things are ONLY black or white, there are no shades of gray. Simple, simple person.

Big difference. Those things are not facts, merely your opinion. There are plenty of "facts" in this world. That you choose to deny reality is your personal little problem, but it doesn't change science -- biology, geology, math and so much more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP: You don't need to understand it. You just need to respect it.

Why? It's total lunacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP: You don't need to understand it. You just need to respect it.

Why? It's total lunacy.

You're welcome to believe that. You just keep your opinion in your tiny brain and judge away. It's when you attempt to bring your poorly informed prejudices into the world and legislate how others will act that your beliefs become problematic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP: You don't need to understand it. You just need to respect it.

Why? It's total lunacy.

You're welcome to believe that. You just keep your opinion in your tiny brain and judge away. It's when you attempt to bring your poorly informed prejudices into the world and legislate how others will act that your beliefs become problematic.

Who died and made you in charge?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, if you at all believe in science, some things are relatively simple, because they are stated facts. Please don't tell me that I also have to convince you that climate change is real, or perhaps evolution? Are you making up your own facts there, too?

Correct. But according to science, the relationships between chromosomes, genitalia, sex, and gender are actually not simple. Some of us like to believe that they are, but the fact is that they're not.

+1 and op of this comment and others, you ended your own argument when you said no one gets to tell you what you think. You don't get to tell trans* people what to think and what it means for them either. So I guess we all agree on something! Case closed.

Do I "get to tell you" that it's not going to be 90 degrees and sunny outside today? Or that 2 x 3 does not equal 15, no matter how much you wish it did? Or are you going to dispute those fact as well?

No, just like I don't get to tell you that your feelings about yourself are false, or that you're not dressed properly, or that people think you're hideous. See how that works? You stay in your lane, and I'll stay in mine. Your calling things facts don't make them so, you do realize that, right? Wait, I'm sorry, I forgot. For people like you things are ONLY black or white, there are no shades of gray. Simple, simple person.

Big difference. Those things are not facts, merely your opinion. There are plenty of "facts" in this world. That you choose to deny reality is your personal little problem, but it doesn't change science -- biology, geology, math and so much more.

And one fact in the world is that trans people are MUCH more likely to be the victims of crimes in a bathroom than to commit crimes against non-trans people. What is not a fact is that this silly law is going to prevent bathroom crimes. In fact it will probably lead to more attacks against trans women by men who are angry to see them in their bathrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP: You don't need to understand it. You just need to respect it.

Why? It's total lunacy.

You're welcome to believe that. You just keep your opinion in your tiny brain and judge away. It's when you attempt to bring your poorly informed prejudices into the world and legislate how others will act that your beliefs become problematic.

Who died and made you in charge?

And there my friends is the very definition of irony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Big difference. Those things are not facts, merely your opinion. There are plenty of "facts" in this world. That you choose to deny reality is your personal little problem, but it doesn't change science -- biology, geology, math and so much more.

Please read up on what science actually says about biology and gender. Not what you think it says. What it actually says.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP: You don't need to understand it. You just need to respect it.

Why? It's total lunacy.

You're welcome to believe that. You just keep your opinion in your tiny brain and judge away. It's when you attempt to bring your poorly informed prejudices into the world and legislate how others will act that your beliefs become problematic.

Who died and made you in charge?

Nobody. Civil society is in charge.

I mean, I'm really sorry that you cannot impose your hateful beliefs on others. The truth is? Trans people don't give two shits what you think of them, whether you can "understand" them (not that you actually want to), and whether you support them. All you need to do is leave them alone to live their lives.

This reminds me of people whining that they "couldn't understand" gay people decades ago. F--k your understanding. It doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP: You don't need to understand it. You just need to respect it.

Why? It's total lunacy.

You're welcome to believe that. You just keep your opinion in your tiny brain and judge away. It's when you attempt to bring your poorly informed prejudices into the world and legislate how others will act that your beliefs become problematic.

Who died and made you in charge?

Nobody. Civil society is in charge.

I mean, I'm really sorry that you cannot impose your hateful beliefs on others. The truth is? Trans people don't give two shits what you think of them, whether you can "understand" them (not that you actually want to), and whether you support them. All you need to do is leave them alone to live their lives.

This reminds me of people whining that they "couldn't understand" gay people decades ago. F--k your understanding. It doesn't matter.

Then why are you trying to change laws that affect everyone?