Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas

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WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.

However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?

If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.

Of course not. It's still white's world out there. I must tell you, I am tired of people making Asian kids so one dimentional - like they can't do anything other than GPA and test scores. The fact that they perform at a higher level (w/ GPA/test scores) doesn't mean they can't do other things.

What else can they do?

Anec-data here....

The Val of my DD's high school class was Asian. Of course, he had the 4.0 unweighted GPA, 5s in 7+ APs, and the 2300 plus SAT I/800 SAT IIs. But on top of that, he was a varsity swimmer at a state-qualifying level (24 hour/week commitment in season, 15/hour/week out of season), president of two clubs, NHS, firsts in state science fair every year. He also had a part time job (lifeguarding).

Shut out of every Ivy.

As CalTech becomes increasingly Asian (over 60% to date), just how many students, Asian and non-Asian with the credentials you listed above will be shut out of not just CalTech but of every Ivy? Even if it were 100%, there are just so many seats. Then what?

Also, the credentials you listed above are not unusual, not by a long shot. Mosey on over to College Confidential. Those attributes are becoming a dime a dozen.

PP here. His credentials were as good as, or superior to, the (white) kids from DD's class who were admitted to Ivys.

If you have ten applicant kids who have the exact same credentials and an additional one that has the same credentials BUT also speaks Russian and Farsi, who do you think Harvard is going to pick? The one who has that extra that adds another dimension to the community?

The person you described sounds extraordinary indeed but I have seen so many kids on College Confidential with the same attributes, and it is heartbreaking there isn't room for them all. But if I were a betting person, I would bet of the 2,000 selected for Harvard, the majority probably have the same distinguished attributes as your person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As for Michelle Obama's thesis, I never read it but I was at Princeton when she was and I agree that everyone I knew brought something impressive to the table, regardless of their race or background. The exceptions were two white guys I knew who were alcoholics and just couldn't keep up. They both had to take leaves of absence. Michelle Obama did not just come from an URM, she came from an inner city school. I had a roommate like that and she certainly did struggle. But she made it, went to medical school and is now back home, practicing medicine, and serving the community from which she came. I'm much happier about the place she took in my class than the places taken by folks who went on to Wall Street jobs,

Unless you bother to read the thesis, and judge for yourself whether it's written in anything approaching college-level English, your comments are irrelevant in a thread about whether other minorities, not drunk white boys, are being unfairly treated in the admissions process.

Ok, NP here, but I remember a drunk Asian guy who flunked out. Actually, two now that I think about it.

Another poster, and I remember the Asian girl who tried to kill herself after freshmen finals. She had to take a leave of absence. I don't recall if she ever returned.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I thought below was an interesting perspective from a Yahoo poster. Usually Yahoo comments are despicably racist but I thought this comment was interesting even though I disagree on one of his opinions.

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WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.

However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?

If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.

Of course not. It's still white's world out there. I must tell you, I am tired of people making Asian kids so one dimentional - like they can't do anything other than GPA and test scores. The fact that they perform at a higher level (w/ GPA/test scores) doesn't mean they can't do other things.

What else can they do?

Anec-data here....

The Val of my DD's high school class was Asian. Of course, he had the 4.0 unweighted GPA, 5s in 7+ APs, and the 2300 plus SAT I/800 SAT IIs. But on top of that, he was a varsity swimmer at a state-qualifying level (24 hour/week commitment in season, 15/hour/week out of season), president of two clubs, NHS, firsts in state science fair every year. He also had a part time job (lifeguarding).

Shut out of every Ivy.

As CalTech becomes increasingly Asian (over 60% to date), just how many students, Asian and non-Asian with the credentials you listed above will be shut out of not just CalTech but of every Ivy? Even if it were 100%, there are just so many seats. Then what?

Also, the credentials you listed above are not unusual, not by a long shot. Mosey on over to College Confidential. Those attributes are becoming a dime a dozen.

There were probably 3-4 thousand kids last year w/ 2300+ SATs out of 1.6 million test takers. Add on all the rest of the accomplishments and I seriously doubt kids like these are "a dime a dozen". There was an AA kid last year with a 2250 on the SATs, not top 10 in his class that everyone freaked out about because he got into every single one of the Ivies. Had be been Asian (or possibly even white) he would have been kicked to the curb.

3 or 4 thousand. 2000 spots. Do the math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As long as there are quotas, there will be URMs admitted who are lesser qualified than other candidates. As long as this occurs, some people will reasonably wonder if their race gave them the edge in admissions.

We has an AA law clerk from Harvard who came across as less than intelligent & ended up not being offered a job. I hated myself for it, but I couldn't help but wonder if her race got her admitted. She was quite unimpressive.

Is she the only clerk your firm did not make an offer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought below was an interesting perspective from a Yahoo poster. Usually Yahoo comments are despicably racist but I thought this comment was interesting even though I disagree on one of his opinions.

• Reply•Share ›
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WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.

However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?

If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.

Of course not. It's still white's world out there. I must tell you, I am tired of people making Asian kids so one dimentional - like they can't do anything other than GPA and test scores. The fact that they perform at a higher level (w/ GPA/test scores) doesn't mean they can't do other things.

What else can they do?

Anec-data here....

The Val of my DD's high school class was Asian. Of course, he had the 4.0 unweighted GPA, 5s in 7+ APs, and the 2300 plus SAT I/800 SAT IIs. But on top of that, he was a varsity swimmer at a state-qualifying level (24 hour/week commitment in season, 15/hour/week out of season), president of two clubs, NHS, firsts in state science fair every year. He also had a part time job (lifeguarding).

Shut out of every Ivy.

As CalTech becomes increasingly Asian (over 60% to date), just how many students, Asian and non-Asian with the credentials you listed above will be shut out of not just CalTech but of every Ivy? Even if it were 100%, there are just so many seats. Then what?

Also, the credentials you listed above are not unusual, not by a long shot. Mosey on over to College Confidential. Those attributes are becoming a dime a dozen.

There were probably 3-4 thousand kids last year w/ 2300+ SATs out of 1.6 million test takers. Add on all the rest of the accomplishments and I seriously doubt kids like these are "a dime a dozen". There was an AA kid last year with a 2250 on the SATs, not top 10 in his class that everyone freaked out about because he got into every single one of the Ivies. Had be been Asian (or possibly even white) he would have been kicked to the curb.

3 or 4 thousand. 2000 spots. Do the math.

There were 23,000 kids admitted to the Ivy league schools last year. I did the math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought below was an interesting perspective from a Yahoo poster. Usually Yahoo comments are despicably racist but I thought this comment was interesting even though I disagree on one of his opinions.

• Reply•Share ›
Avatar
WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.

However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?

If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.

Of course not. It's still white's world out there. I must tell you, I am tired of people making Asian kids so one dimentional - like they can't do anything other than GPA and test scores. The fact that they perform at a higher level (w/ GPA/test scores) doesn't mean they can't do other things.

What else can they do?

Anec-data here....

The Val of my DD's high school class was Asian. Of course, he had the 4.0 unweighted GPA, 5s in 7+ APs, and the 2300 plus SAT I/800 SAT IIs. But on top of that, he was a varsity swimmer at a state-qualifying level (24 hour/week commitment in season, 15/hour/week out of season), president of two clubs, NHS, firsts in state science fair every year. He also had a part time job (lifeguarding).

Shut out of every Ivy.

Sadly, this is not that unusual for Asian kids. I don't care to guess why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought below was an interesting perspective from a Yahoo poster. Usually Yahoo comments are despicably racist but I thought this comment was interesting even though I disagree on one of his opinions.

• Reply•Share ›
Avatar
WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.

However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?

If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.

Of course not. It's still white's world out there. I must tell you, I am tired of people making Asian kids so one dimentional - like they can't do anything other than GPA and test scores. The fact that they perform at a higher level (w/ GPA/test scores) doesn't mean they can't do other things.

What else can they do?

Anec-data here....

The Val of my DD's high school class was Asian. Of course, he had the 4.0 unweighted GPA, 5s in 7+ APs, and the 2300 plus SAT I/800 SAT IIs. But on top of that, he was a varsity swimmer at a state-qualifying level (24 hour/week commitment in season, 15/hour/week out of season), president of two clubs, NHS, firsts in state science fair every year. He also had a part time job (lifeguarding).

Shut out of every Ivy.

As CalTech becomes increasingly Asian (over 60% to date), just how many students, Asian and non-Asian with the credentials you listed above will be shut out of not just CalTech but of every Ivy? Even if it were 100%, there are just so many seats. Then what?

Also, the credentials you listed above are not unusual, not by a long shot. Mosey on over to College Confidential. Those attributes are becoming a dime a dozen.

There were probably 3-4 thousand kids last year w/ 2300+ SATs out of 1.6 million test takers. Add on all the rest of the accomplishments and I seriously doubt kids like these are "a dime a dozen". There was an AA kid last year with a 2250 on the SATs, not top 10 in his class that everyone freaked out about because he got into every single one of the Ivies. Had be been Asian (or possibly even white) he would have been kicked to the curb.

3 or 4 thousand. 2000 spots. Do the math.

There were 23,000 kids admitted to the Ivy league schools last year. I did the math.

You're not just talking about Harvard, obviously. I don't think you or anyone will be happy until either the Ivys accept only whites or only Asians. But eventually, you will be at war with each other. Give it time.

[Anonymous]

You're not just talking about Harvard, obviously. I don't think you or anyone will be happy until either the Ivys accept only whites or only Asians. But eventually, you will be at war with each other. Give it time.

Not PP - I think you just won the "ass of the day" award. Congrats!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought below was an interesting perspective from a Yahoo poster. Usually Yahoo comments are despicably racist but I thought this comment was interesting even though I disagree on one of his opinions.

• Reply•Share ›
Avatar
WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.

However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?

If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.

Of course not. It's still white's world out there. I must tell you, I am tired of people making Asian kids so one dimentional - like they can't do anything other than GPA and test scores. The fact that they perform at a higher level (w/ GPA/test scores) doesn't mean they can't do other things.

What else can they do?

Anec-data here....

The Val of my DD's high school class was Asian. Of course, he had the 4.0 unweighted GPA, 5s in 7+ APs, and the 2300 plus SAT I/800 SAT IIs. But on top of that, he was a varsity swimmer at a state-qualifying level (24 hour/week commitment in season, 15/hour/week out of season), president of two clubs, NHS, firsts in state science fair every year. He also had a part time job (lifeguarding).

Shut out of every Ivy.

As CalTech becomes increasingly Asian (over 60% to date), just how many students, Asian and non-Asian with the credentials you listed above will be shut out of not just CalTech but of every Ivy? Even if it were 100%, there are just so many seats. Then what?

Also, the credentials you listed above are not unusual, not by a long shot. Mosey on over to College Confidential. Those attributes are becoming a dime a dozen.

There were probably 3-4 thousand kids last year w/ 2300+ SATs out of 1.6 million test takers. Add on all the rest of the accomplishments and I seriously doubt kids like these are "a dime a dozen". There was an AA kid last year with a 2250 on the SATs, not top 10 in his class that everyone freaked out about because he got into every single one of the Ivies. Had be been Asian (or possibly even white) he would have been kicked to the curb.

3 or 4 thousand. 2000 spots. Do the math.

There were 23,000 kids admitted to the Ivy league schools last year. I did the math.

You're not just talking about Harvard, obviously. I don't think you or anyone will be happy until either the Ivys accept only whites or only Asians. But eventually, you will be at war with each other. Give it time.

Yes, the "Shut out of every Ivy" line kind of led me to believe we were talking about "every Ivy". I don't care what color the kids are; I just think it should be based on merit. Honestly though, Ivy league schools are private; they can do what they want. I do think affirmative action should be eliminated for public schools or at the very least be changed to be socio-economic based. The URM kids getting into the Ivy league schools are generally quite well off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought below was an interesting perspective from a Yahoo poster. Usually Yahoo comments are despicably racist but I thought this comment was interesting even though I disagree on one of his opinions.

• Reply•Share ›
Avatar
WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.

However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?

If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.

Of course not. It's still white's world out there. I must tell you, I am tired of people making Asian kids so one dimentional - like they can't do anything other than GPA and test scores. The fact that they perform at a higher level (w/ GPA/test scores) doesn't mean they can't do other things.

What else can they do?

Anec-data here....

The Val of my DD's high school class was Asian. Of course, he had the 4.0 unweighted GPA, 5s in 7+ APs, and the 2300 plus SAT I/800 SAT IIs. But on top of that, he was a varsity swimmer at a state-qualifying level (24 hour/week commitment in season, 15/hour/week out of season), president of two clubs, NHS, firsts in state science fair every year. He also had a part time job (lifeguarding).

Shut out of every Ivy.

As CalTech becomes increasingly Asian (over 60% to date), just how many students, Asian and non-Asian with the credentials you listed above will be shut out of not just CalTech but of every Ivy? Even if it were 100%, there are just so many seats. Then what?

Also, the credentials you listed above are not unusual, not by a long shot. Mosey on over to College Confidential. Those attributes are becoming a dime a dozen.

There were probably 3-4 thousand kids last year w/ 2300+ SATs out of 1.6 million test takers. Add on all the rest of the accomplishments and I seriously doubt kids like these are "a dime a dozen". There was an AA kid last year with a 2250 on the SATs, not top 10 in his class that everyone freaked out about because he got into every single one of the Ivies. Had be been Asian (or possibly even white) he would have been kicked to the curb.

3 or 4 thousand. 2000 spots. Do the math.

There were 23,000 kids admitted to the Ivy league schools last year. I did the math.

You're not just talking about Harvard, obviously. I don't think you or anyone will be happy until either the accept only whites or only Asians. But eventually, you will be at war with each other. Give it time.

Yes, the "Shut out of every Ivy" line kind of led me to believe we were talking about "every Ivy". I don't care what color the kids are; I just think it should be based on merit. Honestly though, Ivy league schools are private; they can do what they want. I do think affirmative action should be eliminated for public schools or at the very least be changed to be socio-economic based. The URM kids getting into the Ivy league schools are generally quite well off.

The kid from Banneker who was accepted to five of the Ivies is not well off. Neither is the kid from Brooklyn who was also accepted to several Ivies. What data do you base your statement on PP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You're not just talking about Harvard, obviously. I don't think you or anyone will be happy until either the Ivys accept only whites or only Asians. But eventually, you will be at war with each other. Give it time.

Not PP - I think you just won the "ass of the day" award. Congrats!

Nasty comment. I suppose you are an AA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anec-data here....

The Val of my DD's high school class was Asian. Of course, he had the 4.0 unweighted GPA, 5s in 7+ APs, and the 2300 plus SAT I/800 SAT IIs. But on top of that, he was a varsity swimmer at a state-qualifying level (24 hour/week commitment in season, 15/hour/week out of season), president of two clubs, NHS, firsts in state science fair every year. He also had a part time job (lifeguarding).

Shut out of every Ivy.

Sadly, this is not that unusual for Asian kids. I don't care to guess why.


HE should change his name so it is culturally neutral and check Native AMerican if he was born in the US.

[Anonymous]

I remember a group of Asian students that cheated together on an exam. They all should have been kicked out school and sent home. We don't want to import criminals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember a group of Asian students that cheated together on an exam. They all should have been kicked out school and sent home. We don't want to import criminals.

Please do tell us more.

[Anonymous]

Sad that the "extra special intangible quality" that admissions people are looking for can be summed up as "NOT ASIAN."