Wife won’t sleep with me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol, you don’t know why she says no but she says “ something about how I’m not helping run the family and then I get angry when it’s brought up” so maybe if you don’t get angry when she tells you she is caring for the entire and wants help, maybe start there. Besides cleaning, plan and cook some meals, organize a family outing or cart kids around to activities could be a place to start

Yeah, it’s really smart to have sex with your husband conditional on helping with cleaning and cooking. Not having sex for years will definitely help him see your perspective.

Clearly the household chores should be shared, but it depends on career choices financial considerations etc.

Then you’ll figure out he is getting it elsewhere and feel betrayed that he wanted something else.

I don’t know a single woman who has felt more betrayed by a husband cheating than she did about him not participating in the family life that they decided to create together. For most women who are cheated on, the use of time and family resources on the affair is the main source of resentment.

Imagine that her not having sex with you when you don’t help with cooking and cleaning is like you refusing to cook dinner for her when she screwed the neighbor that afternoon. Sure. It isn’t going to help your marriage to refuse. But is it really a reasonable thing to ask you to do?

THIS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A Housekeeper is Cheaper than a divorce.

Hire someone to do all of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, and errand running. Get a lawn service.
It will be expensive, but even if it costs $60k/yr, it’s cheaper than setting up two separate households.

This is one of the wisest comments on the thread. It's an extreme, but honestly nothing kills my libido faster than feeling like I'm the family maid. It's one thing to clean up after kids who are too young to do it themselves, or even when they are older if they can't yet do it effectively and need help. That just feels like parenting.

Cleaning up after an adult is demeaning. Especially if that adult makes no or limited effort to clean up after themselves. I'm about to get graphic here so if you don't like it skip it, but this is what it was like to clean my home after 10 years of marriage with my husband: He had bowel issues and his poop would stick like black tar to the toilet bowl, so I'd be scrubbing his black tar poop off the bowl. I'd be snaking drains full of his beard clippings and wiping his spittle off of mirrors, he would never do any of these things himself. He walks through the house eating chip and crackers but refuses to sweep or vacuum, so I'd be picking up his trail of crumbs to prevent us from getting ants. He wouldn't wipe his feet before coming in the house and would forget to take off his shoes, so I'd be cleaning up mud and dirt from his shoes. When he cooks, he bangs the spoon on the pot and splashes things and drops things and never picks them up, so I'd be scrubbing the underside of cabinets and scrubbing the floor. He is a packrat and would fill his closet with junk and trash and then never be able to find anything and it would stink, so I'd clean out the entire closet, sort his clothes and shoes, make piles for him to approval the tossing of (I learned to never throw away anything without asking him first). He works at the dining table and dirt or grime from his feet and hands and computer will leave a film on the table and floor that he never cleans up, so I'd be scrubbing this grime so that we could eat at the table without sitting in his filth. And much, much more.

I do not believe it is possible to clean up after a marital partner like this and remain interested in sex with them. It made me feel like hired help, only I didn't get paid. I had a job through all this, by the way, and did the vast majority of the childcare and parenting. It is belittling and demeaning on a fundamental level.

By the time I was in my late 40s, I never fantasized about sex. I fantasized about someone cleaning up after ME for once. I imagined climbing into a bed of clean sheets someone else had stripped and washed and remade. Stepping onto a clean floor someone else had vacuumed and mopped. Showering in a fresh and clean shower someone else had washed. And so on. I was so burned out on caring for other people. The idea of having sex was revolting to me. I merely wanted to feel cared for and valued.

A lot of these things are bound to happen if you live with someone. Shit stains and hair shower with soap scum balls are gross, but I’ve cleaned that and worse after my wife, kid, dog. It’s part of life and living together.

Footprints on the floor, food splashes, chip crumbs are annoying but ultimately minor.

Most families find some ways to deal with it if it’s a problem, you have to speak up if it’s bothering you. With $100-200 you can have someone clean your house for a few hours so it’s good for the following week. Have your own bathroom, and get him to use his own if this is possible. Set some time during the weekend when everyone cleans and assign some chores to him like vacuuming, mopping. Get your kids involved too.

Most couples navigate this easily without ruining their intimacy.

Why would any adult need to be assigned chores to do in his own home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the deep poop & hair cleaning lady wife above divorced?

She cited 10 years of marriage so maybe that was the stint….

That's me and no we are not divorced yet. We are in couples therapy and we are in the process of hiring a regular cleaning person (something I had to fight tooth and nail for and finally got him to agree to in therapy).

I will also note that he was not always like this -- he lived alone before we got married and his house was pretty clean. Not spotless, but not gross, and for instance he cleaned his own bathroom. I knew going in that he had an allergy to the vacuum cleaner and was fine being the person who vacuums. But I had no idea how bad it would get.

One thing that happened, that I think is interesting, is that when we had kids he reduced how much he cleaned more and more until he was doing virtually nothing. In therapy, one thing he has talked about is feeling envy of our kids and all I do for them, like seeing me cleaning up after our DD and helping her get dressed, cleaning her room, preparing meals for her, etc. And how sometimes he sees this and instead of thinking "wow my wife loves our daughter so much, that is sweet," he thinks, "hey, how come she doesn't take care of ME that way."

Hearing this was wild and alarming, because the child in question is a toddler. And I'm also insanely burnt out from parenting two kids like that through baby and toddlerhood, and have been talking about how burnt out I am for years and asking him to help me care for them for years, and all this time he's been watching this unfold and not feeling guilt, but ENVY at how I take care of our kids.

This kind of clicked something into place for me, I think this is why his cleaning and household responsibility has been declining since our kids were born. I had previously thought it was just overwhelm to the stress of being working parents, which I also feel, and that he was having some kind of freeze response. But now I think on some level he saw me taking care of our kids and decided to opt in to being another creature for me to take care of in that way. And at the same time, no one was stepping up to care for me, I feel so abandoned as a human being at this point because I've been working so hard for so many years.

And linking this all back to sex drive. I want to be clear, I'm not intentionally withholding sex from my husband. It's not like I want to have sex or am even neutral about it and just think "no, I'm mad at him, I refuse." I actually wish I was having sex at least some in my life, and I'm still physically attracted to my husband outside all this context. But in context, I feel so used and demeaned in my life that I simply cannot have sex. My body does not turn on in that way, I cannot experience sexual arousal. We'll watch a sexy movie and my husband will get in the mood and I feel nothing. It would not be possible for me to have sex in this state, it would be painful and horrible. So this is not some tit for tat competition here. My sex drive is DEAD. I wish it was not, but I do think it is closely linked to my level of stress and just feeling like I spend every waking hour either working (where I have to serve and help others all day) or cleaning and caring for my family, and the sexual side of me has shut down.

I am hoping getting a cleaner this fall will help and allow me to feel like a person. Sex is not my first priority at that point (I'd like to start working out and sleeping more first, both things I've struggled to find time for the last few years), but I am hoping that with time if I can stop feeling like a domestic servant, we can shift things. My DH is also doing solo therapy and I also hope that his growing awareness of the way in which he has helped turn me into a domestic servant can help change his behavior towards me, as well, and sex might be on the table at that point. Our kids are very young and I don't want to give up on our marriage yet, as the thought of separating our household when our youngest isn't even in school yet is very upsetting to me. I want better for them.

How big is that house? A 1800 sqft, 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths takes 1-2 hours for two adults cleaning together.

It’s important to declutter as much as you can and try to keep things tidy during the weekend, like no dishes in the sink, wipe surfaces clean after cooking etc. We had a cleaner and she would finish everything in 4 hours, but she was thorough and taking her time.

The husband should help for sure, but there may be some underlying health issues (physical or mental) that make it so overwhelming and exhausting. It sucks to clean up after everyone, but unless you’re dealing with extreme circumstances, it shouldn’t be as debilitating.

The husband should take the lead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol, you don’t know why she says no but she says “ something about how I’m not helping run the family and then I get angry when it’s brought up” so maybe if you don’t get angry when she tells you she is caring for the entire and wants help, maybe start there. Besides cleaning, plan and cook some meals, organize a family outing or cart kids around to activities could be a place to start

Yeah, it’s really smart to have sex with your husband conditional on helping with cleaning and cooking. Not having sex for years will definitely help him see your perspective.

Clearly the household chores should be shared, but it depends on career choices financial considerations etc.

Then you’ll figure out he is getting it elsewhere and feel betrayed that he wanted something else.

No, it doesn't. If you are not a true partner to your spouse in running the household and caring for your family, you are failing them.

You need to chill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the deep poop & hair cleaning lady wife above divorced?

She cited 10 years of marriage so maybe that was the stint….

That's me and no we are not divorced yet. We are in couples therapy and we are in the process of hiring a regular cleaning person (something I had to fight tooth and nail for and finally got him to agree to in therapy).

I will also note that he was not always like this -- he lived alone before we got married and his house was pretty clean. Not spotless, but not gross, and for instance he cleaned his own bathroom. I knew going in that he had an allergy to the vacuum cleaner and was fine being the person who vacuums. But I had no idea how bad it would get.

One thing that happened, that I think is interesting, is that when we had kids he reduced how much he cleaned more and more until he was doing virtually nothing. In therapy, one thing he has talked about is feeling envy of our kids and all I do for them, like seeing me cleaning up after our DD and helping her get dressed, cleaning her room, preparing meals for her, etc. And how sometimes he sees this and instead of thinking "wow my wife loves our daughter so much, that is sweet," he thinks, "hey, how come she doesn't take care of ME that way."

Hearing this was wild and alarming, because the child in question is a toddler. And I'm also insanely burnt out from parenting two kids like that through baby and toddlerhood, and have been talking about how burnt out I am for years and asking him to help me care for them for years, and all this time he's been watching this unfold and not feeling guilt, but ENVY at how I take care of our kids.

This kind of clicked something into place for me, I think this is why his cleaning and household responsibility has been declining since our kids were born. I had previously thought it was just overwhelm to the stress of being working parents, which I also feel, and that he was having some kind of freeze response. But now I think on some level he saw me taking care of our kids and decided to opt in to being another creature for me to take care of in that way. And at the same time, no one was stepping up to care for me, I feel so abandoned as a human being at this point because I've been working so hard for so many years.

And linking this all back to sex drive. I want to be clear, I'm not intentionally withholding sex from my husband. It's not like I want to have sex or am even neutral about it and just think "no, I'm mad at him, I refuse." I actually wish I was having sex at least some in my life, and I'm still physically attracted to my husband outside all this context. But in context, I feel so used and demeaned in my life that I simply cannot have sex. My body does not turn on in that way, I cannot experience sexual arousal. We'll watch a sexy movie and my husband will get in the mood and I feel nothing. It would not be possible for me to have sex in this state, it would be painful and horrible. So this is not some tit for tat competition here. My sex drive is DEAD. I wish it was not, but I do think it is closely linked to my level of stress and just feeling like I spend every waking hour either working (where I have to serve and help others all day) or cleaning and caring for my family, and the sexual side of me has shut down.

I am hoping getting a cleaner this fall will help and allow me to feel like a person. Sex is not my first priority at that point (I'd like to start working out and sleeping more first, both things I've struggled to find time for the last few years), but I am hoping that with time if I can stop feeling like a domestic servant, we can shift things. My DH is also doing solo therapy and I also hope that his growing awareness of the way in which he has helped turn me into a domestic servant can help change his behavior towards me, as well, and sex might be on the table at that point. Our kids are very young and I don't want to give up on our marriage yet, as the thought of separating our household when our youngest isn't even in school yet is very upsetting to me. I want better for them.

He wants you to be his mom. No woman wants to sleep with her toddler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the deep poop & hair cleaning lady wife above divorced?

She cited 10 years of marriage so maybe that was the stint….

That's me and no we are not divorced yet. We are in couples therapy and we are in the process of hiring a regular cleaning person (something I had to fight tooth and nail for and finally got him to agree to in therapy).

I will also note that he was not always like this -- he lived alone before we got married and his house was pretty clean. Not spotless, but not gross, and for instance he cleaned his own bathroom. I knew going in that he had an allergy to the vacuum cleaner and was fine being the person who vacuums. But I had no idea how bad it would get.

One thing that happened, that I think is interesting, is that when we had kids he reduced how much he cleaned more and more until he was doing virtually nothing. In therapy, one thing he has talked about is feeling envy of our kids and all I do for them, like seeing me cleaning up after our DD and helping her get dressed, cleaning her room, preparing meals for her, etc. And how sometimes he sees this and instead of thinking "wow my wife loves our daughter so much, that is sweet," he thinks, "hey, how come she doesn't take care of ME that way."

Hearing this was wild and alarming, because the child in question is a toddler. And I'm also insanely burnt out from parenting two kids like that through baby and toddlerhood, and have been talking about how burnt out I am for years and asking him to help me care for them for years, and all this time he's been watching this unfold and not feeling guilt, but ENVY at how I take care of our kids.

This kind of clicked something into place for me, I think this is why his cleaning and household responsibility has been declining since our kids were born. I had previously thought it was just overwhelm to the stress of being working parents, which I also feel, and that he was having some kind of freeze response. But now I think on some level he saw me taking care of our kids and decided to opt in to being another creature for me to take care of in that way. And at the same time, no one was stepping up to care for me, I feel so abandoned as a human being at this point because I've been working so hard for so many years.

And linking this all back to sex drive. I want to be clear, I'm not intentionally withholding sex from my husband. It's not like I want to have sex or am even neutral about it and just think "no, I'm mad at him, I refuse." I actually wish I was having sex at least some in my life, and I'm still physically attracted to my husband outside all this context. But in context, I feel so used and demeaned in my life that I simply cannot have sex. My body does not turn on in that way, I cannot experience sexual arousal. We'll watch a sexy movie and my husband will get in the mood and I feel nothing. It would not be possible for me to have sex in this state, it would be painful and horrible. So this is not some tit for tat competition here. My sex drive is DEAD. I wish it was not, but I do think it is closely linked to my level of stress and just feeling like I spend every waking hour either working (where I have to serve and help others all day) or cleaning and caring for my family, and the sexual side of me has shut down.

I am hoping getting a cleaner this fall will help and allow me to feel like a person. Sex is not my first priority at that point (I'd like to start working out and sleeping more first, both things I've struggled to find time for the last few years), but I am hoping that with time if I can stop feeling like a domestic servant, we can shift things. My DH is also doing solo therapy and I also hope that his growing awareness of the way in which he has helped turn me into a domestic servant can help change his behavior towards me, as well, and sex might be on the table at that point. Our kids are very young and I don't want to give up on our marriage yet, as the thought of separating our household when our youngest isn't even in school yet is very upsetting to me. I want better for them.

He wants you to be his mom. No woman wants to sleep with her toddler.

Hear hear.

[Anonymous]

OP, you've got to make her feel like she's the only woman in the world. A lot of men are great at this while dating, then once they get married they get lazy and think they have it nailed down so don't have to do that kind of stuff anymore, all while still expecting the same frequency of sex. As time goes on, the women just start to feel used and resentful, and eventually stop caring about your D's "needs", since you stopped caring about her "needs" (emotional) a long time ago.

[Anonymous]

Your marriage may be beyond repair. Once she gets to the resentment stage, it is really hard to turn that back. This is when women start to have exit affairs.

But assuming she isn’t at the resentment stage yet: women have responsive desire. “Playing the long game at work” isn’t giving her anything to respond to. Hire a cleaner to remove that burden, and then put the effort you are putting into work into your wife (non-sexually). Talk to her. Touch her in a non-sexual way. Take her out to dinner (hire a babysitter). Do this without the expectation of immediate sex. As long as she has not gotten to resentment, I bet she will respond.

If she does resent you, just figure out a way to peacefully split, and enjoy dating. Do not remarry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s been more than a few years and we both work, now have two middle schoolers and did a big move to the area two years back.

I get frisky and initiate but she does not reciprocate. Once she got sad and said it’s because she is too hurt, something about how I’m not helping run the family and then I get angry when it’s brought up. I work very hard and am playing the long game at work. We also take great family vacations.

But is no sex a grounds for divorce? Sounds like she also is unhappy but about other stuff.

She’s getting her cheeks clapped elsewhere.

Hmmm.. You're probably on to something +1

[Anonymous]

Op is likely a troll. Who even writes like this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the deep poop & hair cleaning lady wife above divorced?

She cited 10 years of marriage so maybe that was the stint….

That's me and no we are not divorced yet. We are in couples therapy and we are in the process of hiring a regular cleaning person (something I had to fight tooth and nail for and finally got him to agree to in therapy).

I will also note that he was not always like this -- he lived alone before we got married and his house was pretty clean. Not spotless, but not gross, and for instance he cleaned his own bathroom. I knew going in that he had an allergy to the vacuum cleaner and was fine being the person who vacuums. But I had no idea how bad it would get.

One thing that happened, that I think is interesting, is that when we had kids he reduced how much he cleaned more and more until he was doing virtually nothing. In therapy, one thing he has talked about is feeling envy of our kids and all I do for them, like seeing me cleaning up after our DD and helping her get dressed, cleaning her room, preparing meals for her, etc. And how sometimes he sees this and instead of thinking "wow my wife loves our daughter so much, that is sweet," he thinks, "hey, how come she doesn't take care of ME that way."

Hearing this was wild and alarming, because the child in question is a toddler. And I'm also insanely burnt out from parenting two kids like that through baby and toddlerhood, and have been talking about how burnt out I am for years and asking him to help me care for them for years, and all this time he's been watching this unfold and not feeling guilt, but ENVY at how I take care of our kids.

This kind of clicked something into place for me, I think this is why his cleaning and household responsibility has been declining since our kids were born. I had previously thought it was just overwhelm to the stress of being working parents, which I also feel, and that he was having some kind of freeze response. But now I think on some level he saw me taking care of our kids and decided to opt in to being another creature for me to take care of in that way. And at the same time, no one was stepping up to care for me, I feel so abandoned as a human being at this point because I've been working so hard for so many years.

And linking this all back to sex drive. I want to be clear, I'm not intentionally withholding sex from my husband. It's not like I want to have sex or am even neutral about it and just think "no, I'm mad at him, I refuse." I actually wish I was having sex at least some in my life, and I'm still physically attracted to my husband outside all this context. But in context, I feel so used and demeaned in my life that I simply cannot have sex. My body does not turn on in that way, I cannot experience sexual arousal. We'll watch a sexy movie and my husband will get in the mood and I feel nothing. It would not be possible for me to have sex in this state, it would be painful and horrible. So this is not some tit for tat competition here. My sex drive is DEAD. I wish it was not, but I do think it is closely linked to my level of stress and just feeling like I spend every waking hour either working (where I have to serve and help others all day) or cleaning and caring for my family, and the sexual side of me has shut down.

I am hoping getting a cleaner this fall will help and allow me to feel like a person. Sex is not my first priority at that point (I'd like to start working out and sleeping more first, both things I've struggled to find time for the last few years), but I am hoping that with time if I can stop feeling like a domestic servant, we can shift things. My DH is also doing solo therapy and I also hope that his growing awareness of the way in which he has helped turn me into a domestic servant can help change his behavior towards me, as well, and sex might be on the table at that point. Our kids are very young and I don't want to give up on our marriage yet, as the thought of separating our household when our youngest isn't even in school yet is very upsetting to me. I want better for them.

My husband also has issues with being jealous of our kids. He didn’t have a great childhood, and it makes him angry and kind of worried to see our kids being taken care of or having fun.
Like he’s jealous of them, but also he thinks they won’t be prepared for life if they have a nice childhood. At the same time, he goes waay overboard on doing things for them sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your marriage may be beyond repair. Once she gets to the resentment stage, it is really hard to turn that back. This is when women start to have exit affairs.

But assuming she isn’t at the resentment stage yet: women have responsive desire. “Playing the long game at work” isn’t giving her anything to respond to. Hire a cleaner to remove that burden, and then put the effort you are putting into work into your wife (non-sexually). Talk to her. Touch her in a non-sexual way. Take her out to dinner (hire a babysitter). Do this without the expectation of immediate sex. As long as she has not gotten to resentment, I bet she will respond.

If she does resent you, just figure out a way to peacefully split, and enjoy dating. Do not remarry.

Fixed it for you:
“‘Your marriage may be beyond repair. Once she gets to the resentment stage, it is really hard to turn that back.’” This is when men double down on their laziness and self-centeredness and passively or actively quit the marriage and relationship. Either threatening divorce and blaming the wife, or passive aggressively making the wife more miserable until she does the paperwork and files for divorce.

They most definitely don’t have the character to work in themselves or the relationship. Starting over with someone else is easier for them. Ex wife and children be damned.

[Anonymous]

Yup they’d rather give up then fix things

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s been more than a few years and we both work, now have two middle schoolers and did a big move to the area two years back.

I get frisky and initiate but she does not reciprocate. Once she got sad and said it’s because she is too hurt, something about how I’m not helping run the family and then I get angry when it’s brought up. I work very hard and am playing the long game at work. We also take great family vacations.

But is no sex a grounds for divorce? Sounds like she also is unhappy but about other stuff.

I get it.

You’re one of those petty males who one moment act like a jerk and then next minute want sex and to pretend like you didn’t just say “Shut up B.”

Push and pull. Keep her on edge. Threats. Demands. Neglect. Excuses.

Oh oh oh. You didn’t like that she questioned why you were on your phone all night and said that. Oh poor you. Didn’t want to answer that question so yelled at her. Poor you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op is likely a troll. Who even writes like this?

Agree. This is a troll thread.