What is the endgame for current attack on elite unis + international students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Former consular officer here. Most of the visa fraud isn’t involving students at elite universities. If you wanted to come to the us for the purposes of doing something illegal, overstaying your visa, etc you would more likely enroll in some sort of open admissions diploma mill or a very large state university. The visa fraud students use it as an entrance ticket to get into the is where they then stop going to class and disappear. They don’t stick around to attend graduate seminars. Trump is going after the wrong people and the wrong institutions.

He has no system or plan. He's a tantruming child.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So is the idea that you have to be a United States citizen to go to a United States institution? Because if so, I’m not necessarily opposed to it.

Never in history have we hosted so many foreigners un US institutions. We need to look after our own FIRST. We've neglected our own. There needs to be a cap, like <10% or some number of foreigners to allow for majority Americans.

And ban foreign students from ever attending any top 30 universities.

They have been stealing IP and American students' seats for decades while we subsidize each of these institutions with tax money in the tune of billions each year.

Tax payers are losing seats and money and foreigners are mocking Americans.

Is this the same poster? Until this week I never heard people complain that we educate too many foreigners in the USA. WTF is going on?

I posted yesterday about the oxygen mask.
Didn’t post anything else.

If you have a US citizen kid at a T25 you know what’s going on. You see it on campus.
It’s different from when I went to school there - and it’s not fair to our kids.

Oh Christ. Come on. I have been visiting my kid at his Ivy the past few days. His club team has a two Germans, a Swede, a Brit and an Italian. The vast majority of his courses are filled with American kids, from all around the US. I don’t see a difference other than it’s not all old $ families anymore.

Not true at Cornell.
At all.

Cornell had strong ties with Asia going back to before China was Communist. Also how do you know who is American and not just by looking at them? My BIL is an Asian-American who went to Cornell for engineering.

White American kids (including my own) tend to have lower SAT math. Hence my kid was WLed. I'm not crying that somebody took his spot.

If your kid can't succeed with all the advantages and stats and prep you listed, that would be a shock.

Losers whine about other people who cheated them. Winners compete harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:So is the idea that you have to be a United States citizen to go to a United States institution? Because if so, I’m not necessarily opposed to it.

Never in history have we hosted so many foreigners un US institutions. We need to look after our own FIRST. We've neglected our own. There needs to be a cap, like <10% or some number of foreigners to allow for majority Americans.

And ban foreign students from ever attending any top 30 universities.

They have been stealing IP and American students' seats for decades while we subsidize each of these institutions with tax money in the tune of billions each year.

Tax payers are losing seats and money and foreigners are mocking Americans.

Is this the same poster? Until this week I never heard people complain that we educate too many foreigners in the USA. WTF is going on?

Does it hurt to grow ears in a week?

This sentiment has been written about here on dcum for a decade. Maybe you can grow some eyes and go back in time. It's all documented right here in this site. Lucky you, you don't even have to Google it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have seen a Singaporean friend of our undergrad at a T20 get deported because of caught with fake ID 6 weeks ago & the uni is telling all international students to not leave for the summer because the school does not know if they will be allowed back. Where it happened there are reports of over 60 intl. kids having their visa status being in play (we talking speeding tickets getting them flagged (we are not talking about protesters here)).

We also have family friends whose research has been stopped (told not to come to the lab anymore).

Removal of Dept. of Ed. & attack on tax-exempt status presumably mean 'need-blind' institutions will become endangered species.

What are the ramifications for the upcoming grad years? I would think merit pay, financial aid, intl students all going to take a major hit (top institutions pivot back more towards socioeconomic elitism). Any views?

clear to me.

focus these efforts on US citizens first.

how hard is that to understand?

be careful in dealing with special interests, people complaining have a vested interest in the status quo. Schools want cheap labor, and/or fully paid tuition and don't give a damn about US citizens. Immigrants want to come to US. It is the US workers that get negatively impacted by increase the number of cheap workers. F1 flows to OPT which flows to H1B which flows to Green Card. All steps created and exploited by Business to keep a pipeline of cheap foreign labor to replace US citizens.

US citizens aren't just white people. They are Asian, Black, Latino. But you all can't accept that. You could restrict admissions to citizens only and the demographic breakdown would be very similar. The biggest difference is the ability to pay full freight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:So is the idea that you have to be a United States citizen to go to a United States institution? Because if so, I’m not necessarily opposed to it.

Never in history have we hosted so many foreigners un US institutions. We need to look after our own FIRST. We've neglected our own. There needs to be a cap, like <10% or some number of foreigners to allow for majority Americans.

And ban foreign students from ever attending any top 30 universities.

They have been stealing IP and American students' seats for decades while we subsidize each of these institutions with tax money in the tune of billions each year.

Tax payers are losing seats and money and foreigners are mocking Americans.

Is this the same poster? Until this week I never heard people complain that we educate too many foreigners in the USA. WTF is going on?

I posted yesterday about the oxygen mask.
Didn’t post anything else.

If you have a US citizen kid at a T25 you know what’s going on. You see it on campus.
It’s different from when I went to school there - and it’s not fair to our kids.

+1
Posters who haven't been in touch with their own fellow democrats on dcum are nuts. Like MAGA, they too have gone off the deep end.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So is the idea that you have to be a United States citizen to go to a United States institution? Because if so, I’m not necessarily opposed to it.

Never in history have we hosted so many foreigners un US institutions. We need to look after our own FIRST. We've neglected our own. There needs to be a cap, like <10% or some number of foreigners to allow for majority Americans.

And ban foreign students from ever attending any top 30 universities.

They have been stealing IP and American students' seats for decades while we subsidize each of these institutions with tax money in the tune of billions each year.

Tax payers are losing seats and money and foreigners are mocking Americans.

Is this the same poster? Until this week I never heard people complain that we educate too many foreigners in the USA. WTF is going on?

Bc we see the number of kids from China at Cornell or the Cali schools. And our kids can’t get in. And it morphs the feeling of these campuses and makes them “quirky” and antisocial.

Why are we educating Chinas wealthiest??? Same for India. It makes no sense.

+1
So true!!

[Anonymous]

Aren’t most internationals full pay? My friend’s daughter from India is full pay. They are very poor- single mom working in a non agency home care job to pay for full tuition at a non flagship state college. I help a bit where I can with expenses— they are not in the same state as each other, so I’ve paid for plane tickets for them to occassionally see each other. Their situation is very tough. Now that the daughter is a sophomore, she might be getting some aid. She has work study. She finished high school in India and grew up without her mom who was working and going to school here.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I was a foreign student advisor in a large East Coast university for many years and am appalled by the open and unapologetic attack on foreign students. I have thought long and hard about this issue and have some ideas on what it's really about. Sorry for the long post, but I hope some of you will take a moment to read it.

At first I thought it was just a part of an overall effort to bring a handful of "elite" institutions to heel in the guise of addressing anti-semitism and DEI. But as I dug further, I learned that:
--it's not just the usual suspects such as Columbia, Harvard, and other Ivy League universities that are being targeted nor are students being targeted just for anti-semitism. In fact, over 80 U.S. colleges and universities have had international students or recent alumni subjected to visa revocations, detentions, or deportations under the Trump administration’s immigration crackdown.In our own backyard, foreign students have been asked to leave GMU, UVA, and UMD, just to name a few.
--increasingly, there is 1) ZERO reason given for these actions or 2) the reason given by ICE is "Other" with no explanation given.
--increasingly, the students are not just Muslims, but also from a range of other countries.

To answer the OP's question about "what is the endgame," I would say these are some of the main motivations/objectives:

1) Nationalism/populist messaging to the base—“We’re protecting Americans from foreigners who want to take over our country, take our kids’ spots in universities, take our jobs, etc.”
2) Ideological control – threatening to deport foreign students or limit universities’ ability to enroll foreign students is a way to control universities and the educated class in general (the “elites”) and to limit dissent, a key tactic in authoritarianism (see Orban’s efforts to exert government control over public universities in Hungary, https://apnews.com/article/hungary-business-government-and-politics-europe-education-9b76dce30164e77be1c3a2fe47db8bfa)
3) Voter distraction and political theater. Whip up the base and their anti-foreigner impulses and hope they don’t notice the tanking economy, the Trump administration’s inability to meet its economic promises (lower grocery prices, lower housing costs, etc) and scandals like Signalgate.
4) Furthering the anti-globalization and anti-multiculturalism stance of the government. Attacking foreign students is a part of a larger project to disconnect the US from the rest of the world. This includes withdrawing the US from multinational organizations, imposing punishing tariffs on every country in the world, promoting anti-globalization rhetoric, and rejecting multiculturalism. Foreign students on US campuses are a tangible and potent symbol of multiculturalism and interconnectedness to the rest of the world.

Defund racist Harvard.

You are either a troll or a pawn in the scheme to divide the country.

Defund habitual racist Harvard.

And how would that change YOUR life?

More Americans with Harvard degrees to run American companies. Also, better odd for my kids to go.

Your kids are not getting in.

NP: I don’t care if my kids get in, I just wsnt other deserving, hard-working American kids to get in.

Totally agree.
.... and I'm a Trump hater, but I actually think letting in so many foreigner instead of our qualified Americans has be horrible for us.

Trump hater here too. And I agree our universities should be educating our ppl.

It’s actually a pervasive belief if you have kids this age and you see how unfair it it is.

That’s certainly something that state universities can and should do - prioritize their constituents.

But private universities aren’t obligated to teach any particular cohort. They could fill their classes with 100% international students if they want.

Many of the state universities are also very difficult to get in - UT Austin for example take 5% of Texans as mandatory but after that, it's a free for all. I think it should be more open to all Texans. Other state schools are similar. I just thought of that one because it's considered a 'top' university and my kid was looking at it. He actually has a better chance as out of state.

[Anonymous]

After 9/11, Bush told us it was patriotic to shop. Now, we need a leader who says it’s patriotic to learn math and English and logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s hard for the ultra left-wing to hear this, but it’s one of the reasons why Democrats lost the last election.

Americans, people born in this country, feel like our institutions, including higher education, favor those born abroad over those born in our own country. It is a problem. Part of it does ring true. I say that as a lifelong Democrat. And it’s true for many institutions.

We don’t prioritize aid to the poorest parts of our country, but instead send it abroad. Look at what happened in the Carolinas after the hurricane? This isn’t rocket science and you can’t discount the anger that so many in the region felt. The USAID money that would go to a foreign hurricane ravaged area - like Haiti -should have been going to the Carolinas as well.

It works the same way with universities. We should be opening our doors to as many people from all parts of this country - in every university - at every level of selectivity. That should be our priority. Educating our people. Everything else should come second.

If we don’t realize that this is a real growing sentiment in the vast majority of American households, then you’ve lost the narrative. It’s not our responsibility to educate the world. They can still come here, and Silicon Valley will still entice them with jobs with legitimate H1-B visas. They’ll want those jobs since they’ll know that the only way their kids can go to college here is if they come and work in those tech jobs (and those kids are born here).

This isn’t xenophobic. It’s America first. And most voters, including liberal voters, actually agree. Feed ourselves first. It’s like the oxygen mask on a plane….

People should reread this to understand how/why this thread has blown up.

People arent maga or xenophobic- they are focused on getting Americans equal access to all of our best institutions.

+1
No kidding! Most of us don't even like Trump. We just want our kids to have equal opportunity to succeed as we did 30 years ago, or 40, or 50.....

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So is the idea that you have to be a United States citizen to go to a United States institution? Because if so, I’m not necessarily opposed to it.

That is because you are a xenophobic imbecile who has no understanding of the damage this would do to this country.

It would do zero damage this country- stop being a ridiculous fear monger. Barely any foreigners came to our colleges in much of the 20th century and that was peak America. We would all be better off without having to compete w them for our universities.

+1

+2 When our own very high stats, hard working American kids can’t get into top 50 universities it is a problem. Fill our schools with smart Americans. Why is this controversial?

A lot of top 50 universities get a lot of money from international students so that helps have more financial aid to help more American students afford to attend given the outrageous cost of university these days. Colleges will change tremendously without international students.

Yes, they would change for the better....going back to what made them great in the first place. It wasn't foreigners; they were Americans.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Colleges want out of state kids hoping to lure in talent that will stay post graduation and improve their state. This is especially true of graduate school. I don’t see that happening with international students who take that education back home. If they want to pay on their dime that’s fine but taxpayer dollars flowing to private universities in particular should prioritize citizen students.

The vast majority of international students are full-pay.

Harvard alone receives 9 billion from US taxpayers.

In Grants, not aid. They are providing research for work - competitively awarded that the government sees as worthwhile and the skills exist at research institutions, not government offices. Do you think the US government provides the rent money for universities? Gracious!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the rest. Democrat but it stings when your kid has done everything possible to get into a top20 university (the 4.0, all 5s, 1550, job, internship, research) and doesn't get a spot and then you go on Reddit and there are kids from India and China who have the SAME STATS and got in and aren't paying a dime. I know a half dozen US kids who were shut out like this.

These schools are NEED BLIND for internationals. there are countless kids who are getting full rides. Read Reddit.

Stop making lies to make yourself a victim. It’s gross and unbecoming. You’re not owed anything.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So is the idea that you have to be a United States citizen to go to a United States institution? Because if so, I’m not necessarily opposed to it.

Never in history have we hosted so many foreigners un US institutions. We need to look after our own FIRST. We've neglected our own. There needs to be a cap, like <10% or some number of foreigners to allow for majority Americans.

And ban foreign students from ever attending any top 30 universities.

They have been stealing IP and American students' seats for decades while we subsidize each of these institutions with tax money in the tune of billions each year.

Tax payers are losing seats and money and foreigners are mocking Americans.

Is this the same poster? Until this week I never heard people complain that we educate too many foreigners in the USA. WTF is going on?

I posted yesterday about the oxygen mask.
Didn’t post anything else.

If you have a US citizen kid at a T25 you know what’s going on. You see it on campus.
It’s different from when I went to school there - and it’s not fair to our kids.

Oh Christ. Come on. I have been visiting my kid at his Ivy the past few days. His club team has a two Germans, a Swede, a Brit and an Italian. The vast majority of his courses are filled with American kids, from all around the US. I don’t see a difference other than it’s not all old $ families anymore.

+1 it was a high population year. People want something to blame for Johnny and Sally not getting into an Ivy. They are used to snowplowing to get them everything they want. My HS in Nova has never had more than 1-2 kids get into an Ivy since the 80s.

Chinese? Or Indian?
Your kids won't have the same opportunities as you did if they are American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is the idea that you have to be a United States citizen to go to a United States institution? Because if so, I’m not necessarily opposed to it.

Never in history have we hosted so many foreigners un US institutions. We need to look after our own FIRST. We've neglected our own. There needs to be a cap, like <10% or some number of foreigners to allow for majority Americans.

And ban foreign students from ever attending any top 30 universities.

They have been stealing IP and American students' seats for decades while we subsidize each of these institutions with tax money in the tune of billions each year.

Tax payers are losing seats and money and foreigners are mocking Americans.

Is this the same poster? Until this week I never heard people complain that we educate too many foreigners in the USA. WTF is going on?

I feel like this is a MAGA talking point conservative influencer type thread. Get the Americans riled up against the foreign students trying to get an education. Be careful or there will be no one left to speak for you when this admistration turns on you.

Its gained traction in the mainstream because it affects all of us with HS aged kids so deeply. Our kids DONT have the same opps we did. But kids from other countries are taking up to 25% of the spots at the colleges on our kids lists.
For a while we all shrugged. Until someone started asking why are we ok with this.
Now its a talking point at cocktail parties (with democrats) and PTA meetings.
Every HS parent is talking about this issue.
If you aren't, you are (1) not very social (2) have few friends or (3) so far left the only people you socialize with are wearing keffiyeh.

+1
All of this. However the PP is probably Indian or Chinese and benefited from the system but doesn't see how their American kids will be crippled by it.