New Elon Jewish take

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d say if you are ticked off by events in a country other than the U.S. (often much more than by domestic events) you haven’t assimilated.
-DP

So that applies to Irish Americans, too, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on the left we have people who hate Jews because they're white European colonizers trying to commit genocide against non-whites.

And on the right we have people who hate Jews because Jews hate white people and have been trying to replace them with non-whites.

It's nuts.

Jews are white people, many of whom pretend to be non-whites so they can join the anti-white pile-on. Many actual non-whites go along with the charade.

Well, clearly white supremacists don't think they're white, judging by the tweet and the conspiracy theory behind it.

But if you're on the younger side, I can confirm that Jews were absolutely not considered white until around twenty years ago, when being white became a bad thing. As you can see from the comment you responded to, Jews are whatever people deem to be a negative. Jews might might not have been considered "people of color" (that term is a relatively new one), but they were considered "other" than white.

Oh but don't you see - we're both white and not white, depending on who is looking. To the far left, we're white - which is why it was OK for Hamas to slaughter lots of Jews. Because they're white - and the slaughterers are brown. So it must be that the killers were justified. Israel, to them, is a white colonialist state - and so anything, literally anything, that the people they view as the colonized do to tear down the state is just fine.

Also, Jews can't possibly feel afraid or persecuted or attached as a group because we're just white.

But to the people who belong to the "Jews won't replace us" part of the anti-semitism movement - we're ethnic, but sneaky ethnic. We're trying to *pass* as white but we aren't white - and we must be stopped.

To be fair, this duality of whiteness is a thing Jews have embraced. Just take showbiz names for example: http://jewbellish.com/jewish-celebrities-change-gentile-names/

You can play both sides for a time, but eventually you end up on neither side. That's where we are now.

Why don't you ask yourself for one moment why it is that Jews have tried to assimilate at times - and at other times have felt not just the urge but the need to identify ourselves as Jewish. I'll give you a minute to think about it.

But there is the rub, Jews have never tried to assimilate. A better analogy would be to say they use camouflage. They want to remain Jewish while appearing "white" to outsiders. Maybe that was a smart play in the short term, but here we are now...

You really can't generalize like that. Of course some Jews have tried to assimilate. Others haven't. And members of both groups have a variety of motivations. Blanket statements in this sort of conversation are useless.

Refusal to assimilate is one of the key aspects of preserving a Jewish identity over the ages. The Jews of America come from Russia, Poland, and a dozen other countries, but they identify as Jews not as Russian/Polish/Etc. That's because they never were Russian, or Polish, or Portuguese.

At some point, the Jews of America will move on to somewhere else. They will then be Jewish in China, Israel, India. etc... They will not be Americans in those countries.

This is how they preserve their Jewish identity despite not having lived in Judea for two millennia.

Oh, please do tell me, the descendant of Russian Jews who had to flee to America after bloody pogroms, all about how Jews deliberately identified as Jews not as Russians. You do recognize that was very much a two-way street, right? Russia/Poland/Portugal have all, at various times, decided very violently that their Jewish neighbors don't belong, and murdered or chased us away.

What exactly are you trying to say in this emotional screed?
Are you arguing that Russian Jews did or did not assimilate in Russia?
What was a two-way street?
Are you saying it was right not to assimilate because they would get chased away anyway?

I'm saying that (a) Jews do assimilate more than you're suggesting, (b) that the countries Jews have lived in often won't accept Jews as full parts of broader society regardless of what Jews want or don't want, and (c) varying degrees of assimilation has not, historically, protected Jews from being harassed, killed, or forced out.

You seem to want to be saying that Jews have no ties to any countries that we live in and/or only have true loyalties to ourselves, which is exactly what the people who have frequently done the harassing, killing, and forcing out have so often said. But I'd love it if you can show some evidence that American Jews are "refusing" to assimilate and that we'll move from America to somewhere else one day, other than just the fact that apparently that's our nature.

If Jews live in a country for generations, and can still be identified as Jews, then they have not actually assimilated. It would be like America trying to run off "Germans" today. They simply could not be reliably identified as such as they have become American. No poster here starts with "As a German..." because that's not how they think.

Assimilation goes beyond the superficial. You can't maintain your own language, religion, education system, legal system, etc... and say you are assimilated.

Failure to assimilate carries risks, as you can become "other" easily. We see that happening right now in Palestine, as the "other" is being murdered and forced out as we type.

Do Catholics assimilate? Can you tell who Catholics are? Do they congregate together? Do they have their own schools? Do they wear a marker of their Catholicism around their neck?

Had never imagined I wasn’t “assimilated” after 6 generations not being in the US but apparently that will never be the case as long as I have “my own” religion.

Let me flip the question on you and the other "what about meeeee?" posters: What are the defining characteristics of an American? If you can't define an American, then you're not going to understand what assimilation is.

An American is someone with American citizenship. That is the glory of our nation. That you can be born anywhere and come here and get citizenship and you ARE American. I love that about our country. It is not based on ethnicity or religion or tribal affiliation. It is based on your citizenship. It's truly what makes our country great.

This is the definition favored by the people who currently run America. Its a high-minded way of saying there is no such thing as an American. Its America as a Costco. As you can imagine, this doesn't exactly engender feelings of cohesion and solidarity. If you've ever wondered why everyone seems to only care about themselves, this is the heart of the matter.

Because at the end of the day, why not elbow another Costco member out of the way to get the last coveted big-screen before its all gone. What are they to you?

But not everyone is pleased with this transformation. And they are asking the who, how and when questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on the left we have people who hate Jews because they're white European colonizers trying to commit genocide against non-whites.

And on the right we have people who hate Jews because Jews hate white people and have been trying to replace them with non-whites.

It's nuts.

Jews are white people, many of whom pretend to be non-whites so they can join the anti-white pile-on. Many actual non-whites go along with the charade.

Well, clearly white supremacists don't think they're white, judging by the tweet and the conspiracy theory behind it.

But if you're on the younger side, I can confirm that Jews were absolutely not considered white until around twenty years ago, when being white became a bad thing. As you can see from the comment you responded to, Jews are whatever people deem to be a negative. Jews might might not have been considered "people of color" (that term is a relatively new one), but they were considered "other" than white.

Oh but don't you see - we're both white and not white, depending on who is looking. To the far left, we're white - which is why it was OK for Hamas to slaughter lots of Jews. Because they're white - and the slaughterers are brown. So it must be that the killers were justified. Israel, to them, is a white colonialist state - and so anything, literally anything, that the people they view as the colonized do to tear down the state is just fine.

Also, Jews can't possibly feel afraid or persecuted or attached as a group because we're just white.

But to the people who belong to the "Jews won't replace us" part of the anti-semitism movement - we're ethnic, but sneaky ethnic. We're trying to *pass* as white but we aren't white - and we must be stopped.

To be fair, this duality of whiteness is a thing Jews have embraced. Just take showbiz names for example: http://jewbellish.com/jewish-celebrities-change-gentile-names/

You can play both sides for a time, but eventually you end up on neither side. That's where we are now.

Why don't you ask yourself for one moment why it is that Jews have tried to assimilate at times - and at other times have felt not just the urge but the need to identify ourselves as Jewish. I'll give you a minute to think about it.

But there is the rub, Jews have never tried to assimilate. A better analogy would be to say they use camouflage. They want to remain Jewish while appearing "white" to outsiders. Maybe that was a smart play in the short term, but here we are now...

You really can't generalize like that. Of course some Jews have tried to assimilate. Others haven't. And members of both groups have a variety of motivations. Blanket statements in this sort of conversation are useless.

Refusal to assimilate is one of the key aspects of preserving a Jewish identity over the ages. The Jews of America come from Russia, Poland, and a dozen other countries, but they identify as Jews not as Russian/Polish/Etc. That's because they never were Russian, or Polish, or Portuguese.

At some point, the Jews of America will move on to somewhere else. They will then be Jewish in China, Israel, India. etc... They will not be Americans in those countries.

This is how they preserve their Jewish identity despite not having lived in Judea for two millennia.

Oh, please do tell me, the descendant of Russian Jews who had to flee to America after bloody pogroms, all about how Jews deliberately identified as Jews not as Russians. You do recognize that was very much a two-way street, right? Russia/Poland/Portugal have all, at various times, decided very violently that their Jewish neighbors don't belong, and murdered or chased us away.

What exactly are you trying to say in this emotional screed?
Are you arguing that Russian Jews did or did not assimilate in Russia?
What was a two-way street?
Are you saying it was right not to assimilate because they would get chased away anyway?

I'm saying that (a) Jews do assimilate more than you're suggesting, (b) that the countries Jews have lived in often won't accept Jews as full parts of broader society regardless of what Jews want or don't want, and (c) varying degrees of assimilation has not, historically, protected Jews from being harassed, killed, or forced out.

You seem to want to be saying that Jews have no ties to any countries that we live in and/or only have true loyalties to ourselves, which is exactly what the people who have frequently done the harassing, killing, and forcing out have so often said. But I'd love it if you can show some evidence that American Jews are "refusing" to assimilate and that we'll move from America to somewhere else one day, other than just the fact that apparently that's our nature.

If Jews live in a country for generations, and can still be identified as Jews, then they have not actually assimilated. It would be like America trying to run off "Germans" today. They simply could not be reliably identified as such as they have become American. No poster here starts with "As a German..." because that's not how they think.

Assimilation goes beyond the superficial. You can't maintain your own language, religion, education system, legal system, etc... and say you are assimilated.

Failure to assimilate carries risks, as you can become "other" easily. We see that happening right now in Palestine, as the "other" is being murdered and forced out as we type.

Do Catholics assimilate? Can you tell who Catholics are? Do they congregate together? Do they have their own schools? Do they wear a marker of their Catholicism around their neck?

Had never imagined I wasn’t “assimilated” after 6 generations not being in the US but apparently that will never be the case as long as I have “my own” religion.

Let me flip the question on you and the other "what about meeeee?" posters: What are the defining characteristics of an American? If you can't define an American, then you're not going to understand what assimilation is.

An American is someone with American citizenship. That is the glory of our nation. That you can be born anywhere and come here and get citizenship and you ARE American. I love that about our country. It is not based on ethnicity or religion or tribal affiliation. It is based on your citizenship. It's truly what makes our country great.

This is the definition favored by the people who currently run America. Its a high-minded way of saying there is no such thing as an American. Its America as a Costco. As you can imagine, this doesn't exactly engender feelings of cohesion and solidarity. If you've ever wondered why everyone seems to only care about themselves, this is the heart of the matter.

Because at the end of the day, why not elbow another Costco member out of the way to get the last coveted big-screen before its all gone. What are they to you?

But not everyone is pleased with this transformation. And they are asking the who, how and when questions.

No only bigots. My ancestors came over on the Mayflower. My DH became a U.S. citizen when he was 19. We are both Americans. He is as American as I am. This is how it’s done in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d say if you are ticked off by events in a country other than the U.S. (often much more than by domestic events) you haven’t assimilated.
-DP

So that applies to Irish Americans, too, right?

Of course! Luckily, not much going on in Ireland!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on the left we have people who hate Jews because they're white European colonizers trying to commit genocide against non-whites.

And on the right we have people who hate Jews because Jews hate white people and have been trying to replace them with non-whites.

It's nuts.

Jews are white people, many of whom pretend to be non-whites so they can join the anti-white pile-on. Many actual non-whites go along with the charade.

Well, clearly white supremacists don't think they're white, judging by the tweet and the conspiracy theory behind it.

But if you're on the younger side, I can confirm that Jews were absolutely not considered white until around twenty years ago, when being white became a bad thing. As you can see from the comment you responded to, Jews are whatever people deem to be a negative. Jews might might not have been considered "people of color" (that term is a relatively new one), but they were considered "other" than white.

Oh but don't you see - we're both white and not white, depending on who is looking. To the far left, we're white - which is why it was OK for Hamas to slaughter lots of Jews. Because they're white - and the slaughterers are brown. So it must be that the killers were justified. Israel, to them, is a white colonialist state - and so anything, literally anything, that the people they view as the colonized do to tear down the state is just fine.

Also, Jews can't possibly feel afraid or persecuted or attached as a group because we're just white.

But to the people who belong to the "Jews won't replace us" part of the anti-semitism movement - we're ethnic, but sneaky ethnic. We're trying to *pass* as white but we aren't white - and we must be stopped.

To be fair, this duality of whiteness is a thing Jews have embraced. Just take showbiz names for example: http://jewbellish.com/jewish-celebrities-change-gentile-names/

You can play both sides for a time, but eventually you end up on neither side. That's where we are now.

Why don't you ask yourself for one moment why it is that Jews have tried to assimilate at times - and at other times have felt not just the urge but the need to identify ourselves as Jewish. I'll give you a minute to think about it.

But there is the rub, Jews have never tried to assimilate. A better analogy would be to say they use camouflage. They want to remain Jewish while appearing "white" to outsiders. Maybe that was a smart play in the short term, but here we are now...

You really can't generalize like that. Of course some Jews have tried to assimilate. Others haven't. And members of both groups have a variety of motivations. Blanket statements in this sort of conversation are useless.

Refusal to assimilate is one of the key aspects of preserving a Jewish identity over the ages. The Jews of America come from Russia, Poland, and a dozen other countries, but they identify as Jews not as Russian/Polish/Etc. That's because they never were Russian, or Polish, or Portuguese.

At some point, the Jews of America will move on to somewhere else. They will then be Jewish in China, Israel, India. etc... They will not be Americans in those countries.

This is how they preserve their Jewish identity despite not having lived in Judea for two millennia.

Oh, please do tell me, the descendant of Russian Jews who had to flee to America after bloody pogroms, all about how Jews deliberately identified as Jews not as Russians. You do recognize that was very much a two-way street, right? Russia/Poland/Portugal have all, at various times, decided very violently that their Jewish neighbors don't belong, and murdered or chased us away.

What exactly are you trying to say in this emotional screed?
Are you arguing that Russian Jews did or did not assimilate in Russia?
What was a two-way street?
Are you saying it was right not to assimilate because they would get chased away anyway?

I'm saying that (a) Jews do assimilate more than you're suggesting, (b) that the countries Jews have lived in often won't accept Jews as full parts of broader society regardless of what Jews want or don't want, and (c) varying degrees of assimilation has not, historically, protected Jews from being harassed, killed, or forced out.

You seem to want to be saying that Jews have no ties to any countries that we live in and/or only have true loyalties to ourselves, which is exactly what the people who have frequently done the harassing, killing, and forcing out have so often said. But I'd love it if you can show some evidence that American Jews are "refusing" to assimilate and that we'll move from America to somewhere else one day, other than just the fact that apparently that's our nature.

If Jews live in a country for generations, and can still be identified as Jews, then they have not actually assimilated. It would be like America trying to run off "Germans" today. They simply could not be reliably identified as such as they have become American. No poster here starts with "As a German..." because that's not how they think.

Assimilation goes beyond the superficial. You can't maintain your own language, religion, education system, legal system, etc... and say you are assimilated.

Failure to assimilate carries risks, as you can become "other" easily. We see that happening right now in Palestine, as the "other" is being murdered and forced out as we type.

Do Catholics assimilate? Can you tell who Catholics are? Do they congregate together? Do they have their own schools? Do they wear a marker of their Catholicism around their neck?

Had never imagined I wasn’t “assimilated” after 6 generations not being in the US but apparently that will never be the case as long as I have “my own” religion.

Let me flip the question on you and the other "what about meeeee?" posters: What are the defining characteristics of an American? If you can't define an American, then you're not going to understand what assimilation is.

An American is someone with American citizenship. That is the glory of our nation. That you can be born anywhere and come here and get citizenship and you ARE American. I love that about our country. It is not based on ethnicity or religion or tribal affiliation. It is based on your citizenship. It's truly what makes our country great.

This is the definition favored by the people who currently run America. Its a high-minded way of saying there is no such thing as an American. Its America as a Costco. As you can imagine, this doesn't exactly engender feelings of cohesion and solidarity. If you've ever wondered why everyone seems to only care about themselves, this is the heart of the matter.

Because at the end of the day, why not elbow another Costco member out of the way to get the last coveted big-screen before its all gone. What are they to you?

But not everyone is pleased with this transformation. And they are asking the who, how and when questions.

DP.
I am an immigrant so I know the sentiment of a lot of others in my diaspora.
There are very few people who agree with the current mainstream American discourse or narrative (liberal, progressive, democratic).
And, there are many people who care about their home country or Israel more than they do about the U.S.
The U.S. is akin to a workplace to them; they are here to make money and help their kids get settled, but their heart is elsewhere.
I think it does go away in the second generation but there might be a point where there are many more newcomers than 2nd+ gen people and it may tip the scale (though I don’t know in what way exactly).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on the left we have people who hate Jews because they're white European colonizers trying to commit genocide against non-whites.

And on the right we have people who hate Jews because Jews hate white people and have been trying to replace them with non-whites.

It's nuts.

Jews are white people, many of whom pretend to be non-whites so they can join the anti-white pile-on. Many actual non-whites go along with the charade.

Well, clearly white supremacists don't think they're white, judging by the tweet and the conspiracy theory behind it.

But if you're on the younger side, I can confirm that Jews were absolutely not considered white until around twenty years ago, when being white became a bad thing. As you can see from the comment you responded to, Jews are whatever people deem to be a negative. Jews might might not have been considered "people of color" (that term is a relatively new one), but they were considered "other" than white.

Oh but don't you see - we're both white and not white, depending on who is looking. To the far left, we're white - which is why it was OK for Hamas to slaughter lots of Jews. Because they're white - and the slaughterers are brown. So it must be that the killers were justified. Israel, to them, is a white colonialist state - and so anything, literally anything, that the people they view as the colonized do to tear down the state is just fine.

Also, Jews can't possibly feel afraid or persecuted or attached as a group because we're just white.

But to the people who belong to the "Jews won't replace us" part of the anti-semitism movement - we're ethnic, but sneaky ethnic. We're trying to *pass* as white but we aren't white - and we must be stopped.

To be fair, this duality of whiteness is a thing Jews have embraced. Just take showbiz names for example: http://jewbellish.com/jewish-celebrities-change-gentile-names/

You can play both sides for a time, but eventually you end up on neither side. That's where we are now.

Why don't you ask yourself for one moment why it is that Jews have tried to assimilate at times - and at other times have felt not just the urge but the need to identify ourselves as Jewish. I'll give you a minute to think about it.

But there is the rub, Jews have never tried to assimilate. A better analogy would be to say they use camouflage. They want to remain Jewish while appearing "white" to outsiders. Maybe that was a smart play in the short term, but here we are now...

You really can't generalize like that. Of course some Jews have tried to assimilate. Others haven't. And members of both groups have a variety of motivations. Blanket statements in this sort of conversation are useless.

Refusal to assimilate is one of the key aspects of preserving a Jewish identity over the ages. The Jews of America come from Russia, Poland, and a dozen other countries, but they identify as Jews not as Russian/Polish/Etc. That's because they never were Russian, or Polish, or Portuguese.

At some point, the Jews of America will move on to somewhere else. They will then be Jewish in China, Israel, India. etc... They will not be Americans in those countries.

This is how they preserve their Jewish identity despite not having lived in Judea for two millennia.

Oh, please do tell me, the descendant of Russian Jews who had to flee to America after bloody pogroms, all about how Jews deliberately identified as Jews not as Russians. You do recognize that was very much a two-way street, right? Russia/Poland/Portugal have all, at various times, decided very violently that their Jewish neighbors don't belong, and murdered or chased us away.

What exactly are you trying to say in this emotional screed?
Are you arguing that Russian Jews did or did not assimilate in Russia?
What was a two-way street?
Are you saying it was right not to assimilate because they would get chased away anyway?

I'm saying that (a) Jews do assimilate more than you're suggesting, (b) that the countries Jews have lived in often won't accept Jews as full parts of broader society regardless of what Jews want or don't want, and (c) varying degrees of assimilation has not, historically, protected Jews from being harassed, killed, or forced out.

You seem to want to be saying that Jews have no ties to any countries that we live in and/or only have true loyalties to ourselves, which is exactly what the people who have frequently done the harassing, killing, and forcing out have so often said. But I'd love it if you can show some evidence that American Jews are "refusing" to assimilate and that we'll move from America to somewhere else one day, other than just the fact that apparently that's our nature.

If Jews live in a country for generations, and can still be identified as Jews, then they have not actually assimilated. It would be like America trying to run off "Germans" today. They simply could not be reliably identified as such as they have become American. No poster here starts with "As a German..." because that's not how they think.

Assimilation goes beyond the superficial. You can't maintain your own language, religion, education system, legal system, etc... and say you are assimilated.

Failure to assimilate carries risks, as you can become "other" easily. We see that happening right now in Palestine, as the "other" is being murdered and forced out as we type.

Do Catholics assimilate? Can you tell who Catholics are? Do they congregate together? Do they have their own schools? Do they wear a marker of their Catholicism around their neck?

Had never imagined I wasn’t “assimilated” after 6 generations not being in the US but apparently that will never be the case as long as I have “my own” religion.

Let me flip the question on you and the other "what about meeeee?" posters: What are the defining characteristics of an American? If you can't define an American, then you're not going to understand what assimilation is.

An American is someone with American citizenship. That is the glory of our nation. That you can be born anywhere and come here and get citizenship and you ARE American. I love that about our country. It is not based on ethnicity or religion or tribal affiliation. It is based on your citizenship. It's truly what makes our country great.

This is the definition favored by the people who currently run America. Its a high-minded way of saying there is no such thing as an American. Its America as a Costco. As you can imagine, this doesn't exactly engender feelings of cohesion and solidarity. If you've ever wondered why everyone seems to only care about themselves, this is the heart of the matter.

Because at the end of the day, why not elbow another Costco member out of the way to get the last coveted big-screen before its all gone. What are they to you?

But not everyone is pleased with this transformation. And they are asking the who, how and when questions.

WTF

Are you suggesting we won't all be "American" until we are every last one of us interbred to produce a new ethnicity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on the left we have people who hate Jews because they're white European colonizers trying to commit genocide against non-whites.

And on the right we have people who hate Jews because Jews hate white people and have been trying to replace them with non-whites.

It's nuts.

Jews are white people, many of whom pretend to be non-whites so they can join the anti-white pile-on. Many actual non-whites go along with the charade.

Well, clearly white supremacists don't think they're white, judging by the tweet and the conspiracy theory behind it.

But if you're on the younger side, I can confirm that Jews were absolutely not considered white until around twenty years ago, when being white became a bad thing. As you can see from the comment you responded to, Jews are whatever people deem to be a negative. Jews might might not have been considered "people of color" (that term is a relatively new one), but they were considered "other" than white.

Oh but don't you see - we're both white and not white, depending on who is looking. To the far left, we're white - which is why it was OK for Hamas to slaughter lots of Jews. Because they're white - and the slaughterers are brown. So it must be that the killers were justified. Israel, to them, is a white colonialist state - and so anything, literally anything, that the people they view as the colonized do to tear down the state is just fine.

Also, Jews can't possibly feel afraid or persecuted or attached as a group because we're just white.

But to the people who belong to the "Jews won't replace us" part of the anti-semitism movement - we're ethnic, but sneaky ethnic. We're trying to *pass* as white but we aren't white - and we must be stopped.

To be fair, this duality of whiteness is a thing Jews have embraced. Just take showbiz names for example: http://jewbellish.com/jewish-celebrities-change-gentile-names/

You can play both sides for a time, but eventually you end up on neither side. That's where we are now.

Why don't you ask yourself for one moment why it is that Jews have tried to assimilate at times - and at other times have felt not just the urge but the need to identify ourselves as Jewish. I'll give you a minute to think about it.

But there is the rub, Jews have never tried to assimilate. A better analogy would be to say they use camouflage. They want to remain Jewish while appearing "white" to outsiders. Maybe that was a smart play in the short term, but here we are now...

You really can't generalize like that. Of course some Jews have tried to assimilate. Others haven't. And members of both groups have a variety of motivations. Blanket statements in this sort of conversation are useless.

Refusal to assimilate is one of the key aspects of preserving a Jewish identity over the ages. The Jews of America come from Russia, Poland, and a dozen other countries, but they identify as Jews not as Russian/Polish/Etc. That's because they never were Russian, or Polish, or Portuguese.

At some point, the Jews of America will move on to somewhere else. They will then be Jewish in China, Israel, India. etc... They will not be Americans in those countries.

This is how they preserve their Jewish identity despite not having lived in Judea for two millennia.

Oh, please do tell me, the descendant of Russian Jews who had to flee to America after bloody pogroms, all about how Jews deliberately identified as Jews not as Russians. You do recognize that was very much a two-way street, right? Russia/Poland/Portugal have all, at various times, decided very violently that their Jewish neighbors don't belong, and murdered or chased us away.

What exactly are you trying to say in this emotional screed?
Are you arguing that Russian Jews did or did not assimilate in Russia?
What was a two-way street?
Are you saying it was right not to assimilate because they would get chased away anyway?

I'm saying that (a) Jews do assimilate more than you're suggesting, (b) that the countries Jews have lived in often won't accept Jews as full parts of broader society regardless of what Jews want or don't want, and (c) varying degrees of assimilation has not, historically, protected Jews from being harassed, killed, or forced out.

You seem to want to be saying that Jews have no ties to any countries that we live in and/or only have true loyalties to ourselves, which is exactly what the people who have frequently done the harassing, killing, and forcing out have so often said. But I'd love it if you can show some evidence that American Jews are "refusing" to assimilate and that we'll move from America to somewhere else one day, other than just the fact that apparently that's our nature.

If Jews live in a country for generations, and can still be identified as Jews, then they have not actually assimilated. It would be like America trying to run off "Germans" today. They simply could not be reliably identified as such as they have become American. No poster here starts with "As a German..." because that's not how they think.

Assimilation goes beyond the superficial. You can't maintain your own language, religion, education system, legal system, etc... and say you are assimilated.

Failure to assimilate carries risks, as you can become "other" easily. We see that happening right now in Palestine, as the "other" is being murdered and forced out as we type.

Do Catholics assimilate? Can you tell who Catholics are? Do they congregate together? Do they have their own schools? Do they wear a marker of their Catholicism around their neck?

Had never imagined I wasn’t “assimilated” after 6 generations not being in the US but apparently that will never be the case as long as I have “my own” religion.

Let me flip the question on you and the other "what about meeeee?" posters: What are the defining characteristics of an American? If you can't define an American, then you're not going to understand what assimilation is.

An American is someone with American citizenship. That is the glory of our nation. That you can be born anywhere and come here and get citizenship and you ARE American. I love that about our country. It is not based on ethnicity or religion or tribal affiliation. It is based on your citizenship. It's truly what makes our country great.

This is the definition favored by the people who currently run America. Its a high-minded way of saying there is no such thing as an American. Its America as a Costco. As you can imagine, this doesn't exactly engender feelings of cohesion and solidarity. If you've ever wondered why everyone seems to only care about themselves, this is the heart of the matter.

Because at the end of the day, why not elbow another Costco member out of the way to get the last coveted big-screen before its all gone. What are they to you?

But not everyone is pleased with this transformation. And they are asking the who, how and when questions.

DP.
I am an immigrant so I know the sentiment of a lot of others in my diaspora.
There are very few people who agree with the current mainstream American discourse or narrative (liberal, progressive, democratic).
And, there are many people who care about their home country or Israel more than they do about the U.S.
The U.S. is akin to a workplace to them; they are here to make money and help their kids get settled, but their heart is elsewhere.
I think it does go away in the second generation but there might be a point where there are many more newcomers than 2nd+ gen people and it may tip the scale (though I don’t know in what way exactly).

My German ancestors lived in communities with other German immigrants and spoke German for several generations until WWI. They finally started marrying outside of the German community around that time, too.

Nothing new under the sun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d say if you are ticked off by events in a country other than the U.S. (often much more than by domestic events) you haven’t assimilated.
-DP

So that applies to Irish Americans, too, right?

Of course! Luckily, not much going on in Ireland!

I have some relatives, all American born, who were heavily invested in what was going on in Ireland during the Troubles. Does that mean they weren't assimilated, even 5 generations in from our immigrant ancestors?

P.S. did you see what happened in Dublin yesterday?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d say if you are ticked off by events in a country other than the U.S. (often much more than by domestic events) you haven’t assimilated.
-DP

So that applies to Irish Americans, too, right?

Of course! Luckily, not much going on in Ireland!

I have some relatives, all American born, who were heavily invested in what was going on in Ireland during the Troubles. Does that mean they weren't assimilated, even 5 generations in from our immigrant ancestors?

P.S. did you see what happened in Dublin yesterday?

I don’t know enough about your relatives and their views to judge. I would say most Irish are assimilated (and they aren’t very different to begin with) but in theory who knows.

Yes I did see what happened in Ireland. It shows that we need to differ between newcomers from different cultures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d say if you are ticked off by events in a country other than the U.S. (often much more than by domestic events) you haven’t assimilated.
-DP

So that applies to Irish Americans, too, right?

Of course! Luckily, not much going on in Ireland!

I have some relatives, all American born, who were heavily invested in what was going on in Ireland during the Troubles. Does that mean they weren't assimilated, even 5 generations in from our immigrant ancestors?

P.S. did you see what happened in Dublin yesterday?

I don’t know enough about your relatives and their views to judge. I would say most Irish are assimilated (and they aren’t very different to begin with) but in theory who knows.

Yes I did see what happened in Ireland. It shows that we need to differ between newcomers from different cultures.

What do you mean the Irish "aren't very different to begin with" - different from what, from whom? From each other?

At any rate, given how many Irish Americans were quite ticked off about events that happened in Ireland, which seems to be one of your main criteria for whether someone has assimilated or not, by your definition they are not assimilated.

What happened in Ireland just now shows we need to keep an eye on right wing thugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d say if you are ticked off by events in a country other than the U.S. (often much more than by domestic events) you haven’t assimilated.
-DP

This would appear to mean that a lot of young white progressives who are ticked off AT Israel haven’t assimilated, among other problems with this definition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d say if you are ticked off by events in a country other than the U.S. (often much more than by domestic events) you haven’t assimilated.
-DP

So that applies to Irish Americans, too, right?

Of course! Luckily, not much going on in Ireland!

I have some relatives, all American born, who were heavily invested in what was going on in Ireland during the Troubles. Does that mean they weren't assimilated, even 5 generations in from our immigrant ancestors?

P.S. did you see what happened in Dublin yesterday?

I don’t know enough about your relatives and their views to judge. I would say most Irish are assimilated (and they aren’t very different to begin with) but in theory who knows.

Yes I did see what happened in Ireland. It shows that we need to differ between newcomers from different cultures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d say if you are ticked off by events in a country other than the U.S. (often much more than by domestic events) you haven’t assimilated.
-DP

This would appear to mean that a lot of young white progressives who are ticked off AT Israel haven’t assimilated, among other problems with this definition.

aren’t they also passionate about just about everything in this country?

[Anonymous]

The Washington Post is the latest advertiser to pause ads on X amid Elon Musk’s antisemitic and conspiracy-boosting tweets. He tweeted about Pizzagate the other day.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/11/28/pizzagate-musk-twitter-x-controversy/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d say if you are ticked off by events in a country other than the U.S. (often much more than by domestic events) you haven’t assimilated.
-DP

This would appear to mean that a lot of young white progressives who are ticked off AT Israel haven’t assimilated, among other problems with this definition.

Yes because Israel is so important.