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[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New thought that I haven't seen yet in this thread:

I work in a school and have for almost 3 decades. It has been my experience that many trans kids I've known have the support of their families. In those cases, these model policies matter little.

Rather it's the cases where the student does NOT have the support of their family. Consider this: trans acceptance is a highly politicized issue right now (whether that it par for the course or abjectly ridiculous is not the point of this post). Through that lens, knowing how cruel kids can be and how much negative community chatter is out there, what kid on earth would think that SCHOOL is the best place to come out? And yet, with an unaccepting family, that's exactly where they'll do it. For kids with unaccepting families, it's not a secret that their family is not accepting, and there can be dire consequences for those kids--abuse, becoming unhoused, suicide. That's the reason for the pushback.

Part of the human development experience is to find our identity. Identity is comprised of a lot of things. Gender & sexuality have always been on a continuum--not binary nor static. For those supporting these policies, the claim is that the school system is "indoctrinating" kids, keeping families purposely out of the loop. What if instead it's supporting a student finding their identity, living their truth? Simply seeing a person for who they are: a human being, whatever identity that takes?

The question I have for the anti-trans crowd: what about a trans person is so scary? How does Human 475485 being trans affect your life in any way?

I'm not anti trans, I am just skeptical because it's getting a lot of attention lately. First, I don't want a boy using the same bathroom or changing facilities as my daughter. Next I don't want a boy in girls sports, beating all the girls. Whatever they want to do on their own time is not my problem, when it starts affecting my kid negatively that is when it becomes my problem.

If your daughter is so uncomfortable, using a shared restroom or locker room, one of your request that she had back to a private one?

Huh?? So all the girls should request private stalls to avoid seeing some kid with a penis? Because the penis kid should be the one that matters the most and not all of the girls. I'm pretty sure 99% of parents do not want their girls to see a penis at school. Girls should not have to be forced to see penises. It's just that simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New thought that I haven't seen yet in this thread:

I work in a school and have for almost 3 decades. It has been my experience that many trans kids I've known have the support of their families. In those cases, these model policies matter little.

Rather it's the cases where the student does NOT have the support of their family. Consider this: trans acceptance is a highly politicized issue right now (whether that it par for the course or abjectly ridiculous is not the point of this post). Through that lens, knowing how cruel kids can be and how much negative community chatter is out there, what kid on earth would think that SCHOOL is the best place to come out? And yet, with an unaccepting family, that's exactly where they'll do it. For kids with unaccepting families, it's not a secret that their family is not accepting, and there can be dire consequences for those kids--abuse, becoming unhoused, suicide. That's the reason for the pushback.

Part of the human development experience is to find our identity. Identity is comprised of a lot of things. Gender & sexuality have always been on a continuum--not binary nor static. For those supporting these policies, the claim is that the school system is "indoctrinating" kids, keeping families purposely out of the loop. What if instead it's supporting a student finding their identity, living their truth? Simply seeing a person for who they are: a human being, whatever identity that takes?

The question I have for the anti-trans crowd: what about a trans person is so scary? How does Human 475485 being trans affect your life in any way?

Many of these kids hiding identities are simply afraid of having their phones taken away or of their parents bringing them to church. Not for safety reasons.

As a teacher, if you truly feel a student's safety and well being is at risk, you are a mandatory reporter. You don't hide the abuse. That is actually criminal.

Many of these kids are discovering their transgender "identity" through internet conversations with anonymous strangers. In many to most cases these anonymous strangers are predatory adults, often sexual predators. This has happened to 2 different girls that I am close to. Why on earth would schools hide this dabbling in transgendering From parents when it involves such risky behavior?? Or worse, why are schools guiding vulnerable children towards unmonitored online chatrooms in the name of "affirmation" behind the backs of parents when we know that they are full of risky behavior encouragement and predators who hide behind easy access to at risk vulnerable children?

You mentioned suicide.

If suicide is a known risk factor for transgendered youth, as statistics indicate, why on earth would schools actively keep this critical information from parents?? If you knew a kid had an eating disorder, or was cutting, or discovered them with drugs, all extremely at risk behaviors that teens hide from parents, you would share that information with parents. Why not this at risk behavior? How arrogant, and frankly diabolical, for schools to actively work to conceal something from parents that carries an increased risk of suicide.

Teachers know kids for a few months, or one school year. Parents know their children from the time they are in the womb. You don't know their family history, their mental history, or their health history. You don't know their trauma. And you definitely don't know who the anonymous strangers are that they are talking to online or who the schools are sending them to online through lbgtq online "support groups"

None of those people are vetted, monitored or in some cases even other kids or actual professionals. You don't know if they are sexual predators masking as other teens. You don't know if they damaged, deranged people sending those kids ways to procure testosterone on the black market, which some tiktok trans influencers openly brag about. You don't know anything yet you are assuming you know the student and their needs better than the parent, and you are willing to send them to strangers behind their parents back in the name of affirmation, and because you are assuming that a parent should not be part of a kid's life.

How arrogant.

Anyone who has birthed a child knows that the cardinal rule of parenting is "no secrets from Mom and Dad." This is drilled into the heads of new parents from the beginning by pediatricians and child safety efforts. Why? Because it is a known fact that child predators work very hard to isolate children from their parents, first by convincing the children to hide things from their parents.
Why on earth would schools want to be on the side of predatory behavior by openly pushing a policy that encourages students to keep "secrets" from their parents about something so risky with long term mental and physical risks, where the online support exposes these minors to easy, intimate access by adult predators?

Time will tell who is right on this, but it it crystal clear that those in education who are actively putting a wedge between parents and their children are on the wrong side of history.
Unfortunately, you the teacher only see this kid for a one to four year window, or two year window for middle school, so you will be nowhere around to pick up the pieces when everything falls apart, nor will you be around to "affirm" and support the hormonally damaged, or surgically maimed, or sterilized, or preyed upon/exploited young adult who has to come to grips with what the adults in their life allowed them to do to themselves or pushed them into when they were a vulnerable child.

[Anonymous]

Look what happened to this family. If it were me, I would have handled it just as this dad did and fled to a different state.

https://nypost.com/2021/06/09/lunatic-laws-let-gender-radicals-deny-all-parental-rights/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gender is not an identity. It’s biological and exists from the moment of conception.

Talk to scientists about this--it's nowhere as clearcut as you think and never has been.

Ok then fill us in on the science of biology and chromosomes. Not the “feelings” of wishing to be the opposite gender.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New thought that I haven't seen yet in this thread:

I work in a school and have for almost 3 decades. It has been my experience that many trans kids I've known have the support of their families. In those cases, these model policies matter little.

Rather it's the cases where the student does NOT have the support of their family. Consider this: trans acceptance is a highly politicized issue right now (whether that it par for the course or abjectly ridiculous is not the point of this post). Through that lens, knowing how cruel kids can be and how much negative community chatter is out there, what kid on earth would think that SCHOOL is the best place to come out? And yet, with an unaccepting family, that's exactly where they'll do it. For kids with unaccepting families, it's not a secret that their family is not accepting, and there can be dire consequences for those kids--abuse, becoming unhoused, suicide. That's the reason for the pushback.

Part of the human development experience is to find our identity. Identity is comprised of a lot of things. Gender & sexuality have always been on a continuum--not binary nor static. For those supporting these policies, the claim is that the school system is "indoctrinating" kids, keeping families purposely out of the loop. What if instead it's supporting a student finding their identity, living their truth? Simply seeing a person for who they are: a human being, whatever identity that takes?

The question I have for the anti-trans crowd: what about a trans person is so scary? How does Human 475485 being trans affect your life in any way?

https://defendinged.org/incidents/new-lgbtq-club-introduced-to-students-at-aldrin-elementary-school-more-lgbtq-clubs-will-likely-come-to-elementary-schools-in-fairfax-county/

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/after-19-years-of-conversion-therapy-gay-virginia-man-finds-acceptance-god-loves-you-the-way-your-are/65-18f8a184-a914-469d-a191-90186f1926d5

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New thought that I haven't seen yet in this thread:

I work in a school and have for almost 3 decades. It has been my experience that many trans kids I've known have the support of their families. In those cases, these model policies matter little.

Rather it's the cases where the student does NOT have the support of their family. Consider this: trans acceptance is a highly politicized issue right now (whether that it par for the course or abjectly ridiculous is not the point of this post). Through that lens, knowing how cruel kids can be and how much negative community chatter is out there, what kid on earth would think that SCHOOL is the best place to come out? And yet, with an unaccepting family, that's exactly where they'll do it. For kids with unaccepting families, it's not a secret that their family is not accepting, and there can be dire consequences for those kids--abuse, becoming unhoused, suicide. That's the reason for the pushback.

Part of the human development experience is to find our identity. Identity is comprised of a lot of things. Gender & sexuality have always been on a continuum--not binary nor static. For those supporting these policies, the claim is that the school system is "indoctrinating" kids, keeping families purposely out of the loop. What if instead it's supporting a student finding their identity, living their truth? Simply seeing a person for who they are: a human being, whatever identity that takes?

The question I have for the anti-trans crowd: what about a trans person is so scary? How does Human 475485 being trans affect your life in any way?

https://defendinged.org/incidents/new-lgbtq-club-introduced-to-students-at-aldrin-elementary-school-more-lgbtq-clubs-will-likely-come-to-elementary-schools-in-fairfax-county/

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/after-19-years-of-conversion-therapy-gay-virginia-man-finds-acceptance-god-loves-you-the-way-your-are/65-18f8a184-a914-469d-a191-90186f1926d5

I understand that Rigby's experience affected his views. But, this is not about "conversion therapy" it is about changing genders which is quite different from acknowledging attraction to the same sex.

In fact, some of this push to support transgender youth seems to be the newest version of "conversion therapy" which is encouraging kids to "explore" changing their gender. The problem is that it is really not possible. Saying that you are the "opposite" gender is not the same as being that gender.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the new policy. It seems pretty middle of the road. It doesn’t make being trans a problem, just brings parents back into the discussion. It also keeps biological males out of female bathrooms and lockers, which I am also happy with. From what I saw, it does not force trans students to use the bathroom of their biological gender, but allows for a safe space for them as provided by the school. Everyone talking about it in real life are happy with the policy. I think only the extreme left is unhappy. It seems pretty reasonable.

I consider myself a moderate Democrat and I disagree. I think it uses the language of "reasonableness" but it puts the onus on parents to opt in to have their child called by whatever name they want to be called by. It's very controlling. And given a time period where some states have rapidly discussed criminalizing parents of transgender children I think you are being disingenuous about how moderate this all feels to anyone involved.

With lawsuits from detransitioners starting to come out now, if I were a school staff, I would prefer parents being responsible for the gender-affirmative care that led to the irreversible damage done to the student rather than me. More importantly, it would be in everyone’s best interest to have a parent initiate the gender-affirmative care at school because minors don’t have the cognitive ability nor maturity to understand the consequences down the road of their gender-affirming care procedures and choices. They rely on the adults who are supposed to guide and protect them. Because parents know their kids best, and are the only ones who will be in the student’s life long after they have departed school, it makes logical sense that they be the ones initiating the gender-affirmative care, and not a third party who is a rather transient presence in the student’s life. Besides, a parent who loves his/her child, and truly believes in the claim that they are the opposite sex than the body they were born in, will make any sacrifices to support the child’s choices. A parent’s love is such that it would endure anything.

I'm not going to get into the science/ethics of medical transitioning. But the vast, vast majority of kids who socially transition are not even considering medical transition--they are exploring broader gender identities. Many transgender people never seek surgery or hormone treatments. This policy forces parents to either not support their children's current gender identity exploration or to put in writing in a formal record about their exploration. Not fair to parents who are already navigating challenging situations with their children.

I see your point. However, the current policy already forces school staff, as well as the rest of the student population and community to support the student’s gender identity exploration. In fact through the 2023-2024 SRR, it even disciplines those who don’t support such identity exploration.

Additionally, FCPS already has put in writing a formal record about such exploration that is shared with staff at the school and it has a provision to exclude the parents. Therefore, how can we consider that fair to parents who are already navigating challenging situations with their children?

In my view, basic respect is calling someone how you asked to be called. Would you refuse to call someone Muhammed or Jesus if they are named after a prophet you don't believe in? Would saying their name be going against your faith? No,. you wouldn't think it had anything to do with you--you would call them the name they tell you. So why is it a problem to call someone the name they tell you they want to be called--it has nothing to do at all with your views on transgender issues. It's just not your business at all.
I agree that since parents do have some rights over their own children they can decide that THEIR child should not be called a different name, but if a parent says they opt out of this policy and instead want instead the basic right given to their child to be called whatever name they choose to be called regardless of whether they are transgender, gender exploring or not.

If I understand your assertion correctly, if anyone’s LEGAL name is Jesus, Mohamed, Satan, Lee, Bragg, Benning, Stalin, Hitler, etc., should we refuse to call them by any of those names? Of course not! By all means, everyone should call him that. We don’t get to have a say because it is in everyone’s legal right to have an official name of their choosing. That why it’s called a legal name. That is also the reason why the new model policies under the Youngkin administration are following the law and in so doing, are providing protection for a student who chooses to change their name. This document explains how the process needs to be done:
https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/id/NameChangesforMinors/NCTE%20Minor%20Name%20Change%20Virginia.pdf

For residents of Fairfax County, see page 3 of 12 of PDF:
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/circuit/sites/circuit/files/assets/documents/pdf/name-change-brochure.pdf

Following Federal Law, the law in Virginia and in the county of Fairfax, the policy says that public schools should use the names and pronouns that are on their official record, which can only be changed by parents. It defers to the “rights of parents to determine how their children will be raised and educated.”

Likewise, in the new model policy, students who are 18 years or older, or emancipated, have the power to choose their own names, pronouns and gender identities at school. Parental involvement is not required.

Your child has the right to identify however he/she pleases. However, it is not other children’s job to constantly having to validate or affirm this identity because in so doing, other children are being asked to deny their right to their beliefs and their own conception of what reality is, to which they are entitled to.

According to the new model introduced by the Youngkin administration,
“The First Amendment forbids government actors to require individuals to adhere to or adopt any particular ideological beliefs,” the new guidance reads. “Practices such as compelling others to use preferred pronouns is premised on the ideological belief that gender is a matter of personal choice or subjective experience, not sex. Many Virginians reject this belief.” Furthermore, the policy continues, “the First Amendment guarantees religious freedom and prohibits compelling others to affirm ideas that may be contrary to their personal religious beliefs.” 

So if my kid identifies as female, which matches her biological sex, but your kid doesn't want to affirm that identity because he believes males are superior and should be the only sex, he shouldn't have to affirm my daughter's identity?

Have you asked your daughter how she feels about Dylan Mulvaney who pretends to menstruate and mocks anything female, from periods and tampons, to makeup and clothing, and to anything related to girls and women? How does she feel that to Dylan, who was a man up to a year ago, the constant exaggeration and mockery of females has no boundaries?

How about asking your daughter how she feels about Lia Thomas winning swim competitions in the women’s category being that as of a year ago, prior to deciding to “switch genders” Lia had been placing 554th in the men’s category? Or how does she feel about Riley Gaines recently being physically attacked for bringing attention to the unfairness of girls loosing to biological males in the women’s category in sports?

How can you convince her not to equate that to women having to submit to men? Most importantly, how could you deny to your daughter that by women agreeing to men usurping what belongs to them is not the same as accepting that, as you put it, “males are superior and should be the only sex”, and therefore, “shouldn't have to affirm (your) daughter's identity?

I’ve seen Dylan’s post. She isn’t mocking anything, she making light of everything new that she’s needed to learn to transition.

Sporting leagues make decisions on trans participation. Bring your issues to them, not an FCPS school forum.

About Dylan Mulvaney, I beg to differ.

As for competitive sports, the participation of transgender students is not an issue exclusive to college athletes; it’s also pertinent to students in FCPS.

One would hope that during FLE and Sex Ed lessons at FCPS, students were given an unbiased platform where they can feel free to debate why girls don’t feel comfortable undressing in front of others whose genitalia are male, or why they think that it’s unfair to have biological male athletes compete against girls because, as you might know, high schools in FCPS have competitive sports, and some female student athletes are counting on college admission under that category.

Of course, that appears to be wishful thinking since students at FCPS are not necessarily being guided on how to think independently, or how to develop critical thinking skills, but rather they are being indoctrinated to the extent that they are not even allowed to make an analogy of their situation with that of athletes in colleges around the country. That is precisely why the transgender issue in FCPS is presented as one sided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New thought that I haven't seen yet in this thread:

I work in a school and have for almost 3 decades. It has been my experience that many trans kids I've known have the support of their families. In those cases, these model policies matter little.

Rather it's the cases where the student does NOT have the support of their family. Consider this: trans acceptance is a highly politicized issue right now (whether that it par for the course or abjectly ridiculous is not the point of this post). Through that lens, knowing how cruel kids can be and how much negative community chatter is out there, what kid on earth would think that SCHOOL is the best place to come out? And yet, with an unaccepting family, that's exactly where they'll do it. For kids with unaccepting families, it's not a secret that their family is not accepting, and there can be dire consequences for those kids--abuse, becoming unhoused, suicide. That's the reason for the pushback.

Part of the human development experience is to find our identity. Identity is comprised of a lot of things. Gender & sexuality have always been on a continuum--not binary nor static. For those supporting these policies, the claim is that the school system is "indoctrinating" kids, keeping families purposely out of the loop. What if instead it's supporting a student finding their identity, living their truth? Simply seeing a person for who they are: a human being, whatever identity that takes?

The question I have for the anti-trans crowd: what about a trans person is so scary? How does Human 475485 being trans affect your life in any way?

https://defendinged.org/incidents/new-lgbtq-club-introduced-to-students-at-aldrin-elementary-school-more-lgbtq-clubs-will-likely-come-to-elementary-schools-in-fairfax-county/

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/after-19-years-of-conversion-therapy-gay-virginia-man-finds-acceptance-god-loves-you-the-way-your-are/65-18f8a184-a914-469d-a191-90186f1926d5

I don't agree with calling this a rainbow club in elementary school. Little kids like rainbows and that's not what this is about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New thought that I haven't seen yet in this thread:

I work in a school and have for almost 3 decades. It has been my experience that many trans kids I've known have the support of their families. In those cases, these model policies matter little.

Rather it's the cases where the student does NOT have the support of their family. Consider this: trans acceptance is a highly politicized issue right now (whether that it par for the course or abjectly ridiculous is not the point of this post). Through that lens, knowing how cruel kids can be and how much negative community chatter is out there, what kid on earth would think that SCHOOL is the best place to come out? And yet, with an unaccepting family, that's exactly where they'll do it. For kids with unaccepting families, it's not a secret that their family is not accepting, and there can be dire consequences for those kids--abuse, becoming unhoused, suicide. That's the reason for the pushback.

Part of the human development experience is to find our identity. Identity is comprised of a lot of things. Gender & sexuality have always been on a continuum--not binary nor static. For those supporting these policies, the claim is that the school system is "indoctrinating" kids, keeping families purposely out of the loop. What if instead it's supporting a student finding their identity, living their truth? Simply seeing a person for who they are: a human being, whatever identity that takes?

The question I have for the anti-trans crowd: what about a trans person is so scary? How does Human 475485 being trans affect your life in any way?

https://defendinged.org/incidents/new-lgbtq-club-introduced-to-students-at-aldrin-elementary-school-more-lgbtq-clubs-will-likely-come-to-elementary-schools-in-fairfax-county/

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/after-19-years-of-conversion-therapy-gay-virginia-man-finds-acceptance-god-loves-you-the-way-your-are/65-18f8a184-a914-469d-a191-90186f1926d5

I don't agree with calling this a rainbow club in elementary school. Little kids like rainbows and that's not what this is about.

+1

I think it is very sad that rainbows mean something so different than in the past. I taught first grade and we used to joke that when a child puts a tree, a sun, and a rainbow in every picture that it meant they were ready for second grade.

A rainbow used to signify "hope" and "promise" --not "pride." It was innocence and the "pot of gold" at the end. Very sad to see that it has been appropriated and taken on a very new meaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the new policy. It seems pretty middle of the road. It doesn’t make being trans a problem, just brings parents back into the discussion. It also keeps biological males out of female bathrooms and lockers, which I am also happy with. From what I saw, it does not force trans students to use the bathroom of their biological gender, but allows for a safe space for them as provided by the school. Everyone talking about it in real life are happy with the policy. I think only the extreme left is unhappy. It seems pretty reasonable.

I consider myself a moderate Democrat and I disagree. I think it uses the language of "reasonableness" but it puts the onus on parents to opt in to have their child called by whatever name they want to be called by. It's very controlling. And given a time period where some states have rapidly discussed criminalizing parents of transgender children I think you are being disingenuous about how moderate this all feels to anyone involved.

With lawsuits from detransitioners starting to come out now, if I were a school staff, I would prefer parents being responsible for the gender-affirmative care that led to the irreversible damage done to the student rather than me. More importantly, it would be in everyone’s best interest to have a parent initiate the gender-affirmative care at school because minors don’t have the cognitive ability nor maturity to understand the consequences down the road of their gender-affirming care procedures and choices. They rely on the adults who are supposed to guide and protect them. Because parents know their kids best, and are the only ones who will be in the student’s life long after they have departed school, it makes logical sense that they be the ones initiating the gender-affirmative care, and not a third party who is a rather transient presence in the student’s life. Besides, a parent who loves his/her child, and truly believes in the claim that they are the opposite sex than the body they were born in, will make any sacrifices to support the child’s choices. A parent’s love is such that it would endure anything.

I'm not going to get into the science/ethics of medical transitioning. But the vast, vast majority of kids who socially transition are not even considering medical transition--they are exploring broader gender identities. Many transgender people never seek surgery or hormone treatments. This policy forces parents to either not support their children's current gender identity exploration or to put in writing in a formal record about their exploration. Not fair to parents who are already navigating challenging situations with their children.

I see your point. However, the current policy already forces school staff, as well as the rest of the student population and community to support the student’s gender identity exploration. In fact through the 2023-2024 SRR, it even disciplines those who don’t support such identity exploration.

Additionally, FCPS already has put in writing a formal record about such exploration that is shared with staff at the school and it has a provision to exclude the parents. Therefore, how can we consider that fair to parents who are already navigating challenging situations with their children?

In my view, basic respect is calling someone how you asked to be called. Would you refuse to call someone Muhammed or Jesus if they are named after a prophet you don't believe in? Would saying their name be going against your faith? No,. you wouldn't think it had anything to do with you--you would call them the name they tell you. So why is it a problem to call someone the name they tell you they want to be called--it has nothing to do at all with your views on transgender issues. It's just not your business at all.
I agree that since parents do have some rights over their own children they can decide that THEIR child should not be called a different name, but if a parent says they opt out of this policy and instead want instead the basic right given to their child to be called whatever name they choose to be called regardless of whether they are transgender, gender exploring or not.

If I understand your assertion correctly, if anyone’s LEGAL name is Jesus, Mohamed, Satan, Lee, Bragg, Benning, Stalin, Hitler, etc., should we refuse to call them by any of those names? Of course not! By all means, everyone should call him that. We don’t get to have a say because it is in everyone’s legal right to have an official name of their choosing. That why it’s called a legal name. That is also the reason why the new model policies under the Youngkin administration are following the law and in so doing, are providing protection for a student who chooses to change their name. This document explains how the process needs to be done:
https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/id/NameChangesforMinors/NCTE%20Minor%20Name%20Change%20Virginia.pdf

For residents of Fairfax County, see page 3 of 12 of PDF:
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/circuit/sites/circuit/files/assets/documents/pdf/name-change-brochure.pdf

Following Federal Law, the law in Virginia and in the county of Fairfax, the policy says that public schools should use the names and pronouns that are on their official record, which can only be changed by parents. It defers to the “rights of parents to determine how their children will be raised and educated.”

Likewise, in the new model policy, students who are 18 years or older, or emancipated, have the power to choose their own names, pronouns and gender identities at school. Parental involvement is not required.

Your child has the right to identify however he/she pleases. However, it is not other children’s job to constantly having to validate or affirm this identity because in so doing, other children are being asked to deny their right to their beliefs and their own conception of what reality is, to which they are entitled to.

According to the new model introduced by the Youngkin administration,
“The First Amendment forbids government actors to require individuals to adhere to or adopt any particular ideological beliefs,” the new guidance reads. “Practices such as compelling others to use preferred pronouns is premised on the ideological belief that gender is a matter of personal choice or subjective experience, not sex. Many Virginians reject this belief.” Furthermore, the policy continues, “the First Amendment guarantees religious freedom and prohibits compelling others to affirm ideas that may be contrary to their personal religious beliefs.” 

So if my kid identifies as female, which matches her biological sex, but your kid doesn't want to affirm that identity because he believes males are superior and should be the only sex, he shouldn't have to affirm my daughter's identity?

Have you asked your daughter how she feels about Dylan Mulvaney who pretends to menstruate and mocks anything female, from periods and tampons, to makeup and clothing, and to anything related to girls and women? How does she feel that to Dylan, who was a man up to a year ago, the constant exaggeration and mockery of females has no boundaries?

How about asking your daughter how she feels about Lia Thomas winning swim competitions in the women’s category being that as of a year ago, prior to deciding to “switch genders” Lia had been placing 554th in the men’s category? Or how does she feel about Riley Gaines recently being physically attacked for bringing attention to the unfairness of girls loosing to biological males in the women’s category in sports?

How can you convince her not to equate that to women having to submit to men? Most importantly, how could you deny to your daughter that by women agreeing to men usurping what belongs to them is not the same as accepting that, as you put it, “males are superior and should be the only sex”, and therefore, “shouldn't have to affirm (your) daughter's identity?

Go back and reread the post to which you are responding. You've completely missed the point of it.

I do get the point. I’m replying with the intent to encourage the OP to think outside the box and see the bigger picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the new policy. It seems pretty middle of the road. It doesn’t make being trans a problem, just brings parents back into the discussion. It also keeps biological males out of female bathrooms and lockers, which I am also happy with. From what I saw, it does not force trans students to use the bathroom of their biological gender, but allows for a safe space for them as provided by the school. Everyone talking about it in real life are happy with the policy. I think only the extreme left is unhappy. It seems pretty reasonable.

I consider myself a moderate Democrat and I disagree. I think it uses the language of "reasonableness" but it puts the onus on parents to opt in to have their child called by whatever name they want to be called by. It's very controlling. And given a time period where some states have rapidly discussed criminalizing parents of transgender children I think you are being disingenuous about how moderate this all feels to anyone involved.

Parents feel differently. Their opinion matters more than childless activists.

+1 I absolutely love that Youngkin is following through and having parents’ voices being heard in education.

Well teachers don't have to follow this....I know you will be butt hurt about that but it is what it is. Maybe you should move to Flori-duh!

Yes, they will. Sorry you don’t like it.

No they don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gender is not an identity. It’s biological and exists from the moment of conception.

Talk to scientists about this--it's nowhere as clearcut as you think and never has been.

Ok then fill us in on the science of biology and chromosomes. Not the “feelings” of wishing to be the opposite gender.

Look at research on hormones, epigenesis, and neurological patterns associated with gender and you will see they are far from binary--and that people who are transgender tend to have a very mixed profile of these. When researchers study basic gender typical neurological patterns such as cross-hemispheric coherence, transgender people show more similarities with their current identified gender than their assigned gender at birth. A lot is unknown, but the research is progressing.

As for chromosomes, while gender might be shown by XX vs XY, there's a lot of genetic variation within each of those chromosomes that give a more mixed gender profile. It's actually just one gene at the tip of the Y chromosome (SRY) that sends an embryo down a typically developing masculine pathway and that gene can sometimes be present in X chromosomes too. Then there are all sorts of genetic factors after that--for instance, an embryo could have a Y chromosome with an SRY tip but lack receptors that make the embryonic development continue on as masculine. So an XX baby could have the masculine triggering gene that is usually on a Y chromosome and could present as either male or female at birth depending on either factors--and it may or may not be their gender as they age. These things have all been found in many animal species as well--the more gender is studied, the less it looks strictly binary.

Human's neurologic and genetic/epigenetic development is fascinating area of science--and more is discovered all the time as we have greater access to neuroimaging and genetic analysis we more fully understand what it is to be biologically human in ways we never understood before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the new policy. It seems pretty middle of the road. It doesn’t make being trans a problem, just brings parents back into the discussion. It also keeps biological males out of female bathrooms and lockers, which I am also happy with. From what I saw, it does not force trans students to use the bathroom of their biological gender, but allows for a safe space for them as provided by the school. Everyone talking about it in real life are happy with the policy. I think only the extreme left is unhappy. It seems pretty reasonable.

I consider myself a moderate Democrat and I disagree. I think it uses the language of "reasonableness" but it puts the onus on parents to opt in to have their child called by whatever name they want to be called by. It's very controlling. And given a time period where some states have rapidly discussed criminalizing parents of transgender children I think you are being disingenuous about how moderate this all feels to anyone involved.

With lawsuits from detransitioners starting to come out now, if I were a school staff, I would prefer parents being responsible for the gender-affirmative care that led to the irreversible damage done to the student rather than me. More importantly, it would be in everyone’s best interest to have a parent initiate the gender-affirmative care at school because minors don’t have the cognitive ability nor maturity to understand the consequences down the road of their gender-affirming care procedures and choices. They rely on the adults who are supposed to guide and protect them. Because parents know their kids best, and are the only ones who will be in the student’s life long after they have departed school, it makes logical sense that they be the ones initiating the gender-affirmative care, and not a third party who is a rather transient presence in the student’s life. Besides, a parent who loves his/her child, and truly believes in the claim that they are the opposite sex than the body they were born in, will make any sacrifices to support the child’s choices. A parent’s love is such that it would endure anything.

I'm not going to get into the science/ethics of medical transitioning. But the vast, vast majority of kids who socially transition are not even considering medical transition--they are exploring broader gender identities. Many transgender people never seek surgery or hormone treatments. This policy forces parents to either not support their children's current gender identity exploration or to put in writing in a formal record about their exploration. Not fair to parents who are already navigating challenging situations with their children.

I see your point. However, the current policy already forces school staff, as well as the rest of the student population and community to support the student’s gender identity exploration. In fact through the 2023-2024 SRR, it even disciplines those who don’t support such identity exploration.

Additionally, FCPS already has put in writing a formal record about such exploration that is shared with staff at the school and it has a provision to exclude the parents. Therefore, how can we consider that fair to parents who are already navigating challenging situations with their children?

In my view, basic respect is calling someone how you asked to be called. Would you refuse to call someone Muhammed or Jesus if they are named after a prophet you don't believe in? Would saying their name be going against your faith? No,. you wouldn't think it had anything to do with you--you would call them the name they tell you. So why is it a problem to call someone the name they tell you they want to be called--it has nothing to do at all with your views on transgender issues. It's just not your business at all.
I agree that since parents do have some rights over their own children they can decide that THEIR child should not be called a different name, but if a parent says they opt out of this policy and instead want instead the basic right given to their child to be called whatever name they choose to be called regardless of whether they are transgender, gender exploring or not.

If I understand your assertion correctly, if anyone’s LEGAL name is Jesus, Mohamed, Satan, Lee, Bragg, Benning, Stalin, Hitler, etc., should we refuse to call them by any of those names? Of course not! By all means, everyone should call him that. We don’t get to have a say because it is in everyone’s legal right to have an official name of their choosing. That why it’s called a legal name. That is also the reason why the new model policies under the Youngkin administration are following the law and in so doing, are providing protection for a student who chooses to change their name. This document explains how the process needs to be done:
https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/id/NameChangesforMinors/NCTE%20Minor%20Name%20Change%20Virginia.pdf

For residents of Fairfax County, see page 3 of 12 of PDF:
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/circuit/sites/circuit/files/assets/documents/pdf/name-change-brochure.pdf

Following Federal Law, the law in Virginia and in the county of Fairfax, the policy says that public schools should use the names and pronouns that are on their official record, which can only be changed by parents. It defers to the “rights of parents to determine how their children will be raised and educated.”

Likewise, in the new model policy, students who are 18 years or older, or emancipated, have the power to choose their own names, pronouns and gender identities at school. Parental involvement is not required.

Your child has the right to identify however he/she pleases. However, it is not other children’s job to constantly having to validate or affirm this identity because in so doing, other children are being asked to deny their right to their beliefs and their own conception of what reality is, to which they are entitled to.

According to the new model introduced by the Youngkin administration,
“The First Amendment forbids government actors to require individuals to adhere to or adopt any particular ideological beliefs,” the new guidance reads. “Practices such as compelling others to use preferred pronouns is premised on the ideological belief that gender is a matter of personal choice or subjective experience, not sex. Many Virginians reject this belief.” Furthermore, the policy continues, “the First Amendment guarantees religious freedom and prohibits compelling others to affirm ideas that may be contrary to their personal religious beliefs.” 

So if my kid identifies as female, which matches her biological sex, but your kid doesn't want to affirm that identity because he believes males are superior and should be the only sex, he shouldn't have to affirm my daughter's identity?

Have you asked your daughter how she feels about Dylan Mulvaney who pretends to menstruate and mocks anything female, from periods and tampons, to makeup and clothing, and to anything related to girls and women? How does she feel that to Dylan, who was a man up to a year ago, the constant exaggeration and mockery of females has no boundaries?

How about asking your daughter how she feels about Lia Thomas winning swim competitions in the women’s category being that as of a year ago, prior to deciding to “switch genders” Lia had been placing 554th in the men’s category? Or how does she feel about Riley Gaines recently being physically attacked for bringing attention to the unfairness of girls loosing to biological males in the women’s category in sports?

How can you convince her not to equate that to women having to submit to men? Most importantly, how could you deny to your daughter that by women agreeing to men usurping what belongs to them is not the same as accepting that, as you put it, “males are superior and should be the only sex”, and therefore, “shouldn't have to affirm (your) daughter's identity?

I’ve seen Dylan’s post. She isn’t mocking anything, she making light of everything new that she’s needed to learn to transition.

Sporting leagues make decisions on trans participation. Bring your issues to them, not an FCPS school forum.

About Dylan Mulvaney, I beg to differ.

As for competitive sports, the participation of transgender students is not an issue exclusive to college athletes; it’s also pertinent to students in FCPS.

One would hope that during FLE and Sex Ed lessons at FCPS, students were given an unbiased platform where they can feel free to debate why girls don’t feel comfortable undressing in front of others whose genitalia are male, or why they think that it’s unfair to have biological male athletes compete against girls because, as you might know, high schools in FCPS have competitive sports, and some female student athletes are counting on college admission under that category.

Of course, that appears to be wishful thinking since students at FCPS are not necessarily being guided on how to think independently, or how to develop critical thinking skills, but rather they are being indoctrinated to the extent that they are not even allowed to make an analogy of their situation with that of athletes in colleges around the country. That is precisely why the transgender issue in FCPS is presented as one sided.

"the participation of transgender students is not an issue exclusive to college athletes" -- false

https://www.insider.com/lia-thomas-teammates-oppose-trans-swimmer-on-womens-team-2022-3https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12165041/Paula-Scanlan-Lia-Thomas-former-teammate-slams-University-Pennsylvania.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the new policy. It seems pretty middle of the road. It doesn’t make being trans a problem, just brings parents back into the discussion. It also keeps biological males out of female bathrooms and lockers, which I am also happy with. From what I saw, it does not force trans students to use the bathroom of their biological gender, but allows for a safe space for them as provided by the school. Everyone talking about it in real life are happy with the policy. I think only the extreme left is unhappy. It seems pretty reasonable.

I consider myself a moderate Democrat and I disagree. I think it uses the language of "reasonableness" but it puts the onus on parents to opt in to have their child called by whatever name they want to be called by. It's very controlling. And given a time period where some states have rapidly discussed criminalizing parents of transgender children I think you are being disingenuous about how moderate this all feels to anyone involved.

With lawsuits from detransitioners starting to come out now, if I were a school staff, I would prefer parents being responsible for the gender-affirmative care that led to the irreversible damage done to the student rather than me. More importantly, it would be in everyone’s best interest to have a parent initiate the gender-affirmative care at school because minors don’t have the cognitive ability nor maturity to understand the consequences down the road of their gender-affirming care procedures and choices. They rely on the adults who are supposed to guide and protect them. Because parents know their kids best, and are the only ones who will be in the student’s life long after they have departed school, it makes logical sense that they be the ones initiating the gender-affirmative care, and not a third party who is a rather transient presence in the student’s life. Besides, a parent who loves his/her child, and truly believes in the claim that they are the opposite sex than the body they were born in, will make any sacrifices to support the child’s choices. A parent’s love is such that it would endure anything.

I'm not going to get into the science/ethics of medical transitioning. But the vast, vast majority of kids who socially transition are not even considering medical transition--they are exploring broader gender identities. Many transgender people never seek surgery or hormone treatments. This policy forces parents to either not support their children's current gender identity exploration or to put in writing in a formal record about their exploration. Not fair to parents who are already navigating challenging situations with their children.

I see your point. However, the current policy already forces school staff, as well as the rest of the student population and community to support the student’s gender identity exploration. In fact through the 2023-2024 SRR, it even disciplines those who don’t support such identity exploration.

Additionally, FCPS already has put in writing a formal record about such exploration that is shared with staff at the school and it has a provision to exclude the parents. Therefore, how can we consider that fair to parents who are already navigating challenging situations with their children?

In my view, basic respect is calling someone how you asked to be called. Would you refuse to call someone Muhammed or Jesus if they are named after a prophet you don't believe in? Would saying their name be going against your faith? No,. you wouldn't think it had anything to do with you--you would call them the name they tell you. So why is it a problem to call someone the name they tell you they want to be called--it has nothing to do at all with your views on transgender issues. It's just not your business at all.
I agree that since parents do have some rights over their own children they can decide that THEIR child should not be called a different name, but if a parent says they opt out of this policy and instead want instead the basic right given to their child to be called whatever name they choose to be called regardless of whether they are transgender, gender exploring or not.

If I understand your assertion correctly, if anyone’s LEGAL name is Jesus, Mohamed, Satan, Lee, Bragg, Benning, Stalin, Hitler, etc., should we refuse to call them by any of those names? Of course not! By all means, everyone should call him that. We don’t get to have a say because it is in everyone’s legal right to have an official name of their choosing. That why it’s called a legal name. That is also the reason why the new model policies under the Youngkin administration are following the law and in so doing, are providing protection for a student who chooses to change their name. This document explains how the process needs to be done:
https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/id/NameChangesforMinors/NCTE%20Minor%20Name%20Change%20Virginia.pdf

For residents of Fairfax County, see page 3 of 12 of PDF:
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/circuit/sites/circuit/files/assets/documents/pdf/name-change-brochure.pdf

Following Federal Law, the law in Virginia and in the county of Fairfax, the policy says that public schools should use the names and pronouns that are on their official record, which can only be changed by parents. It defers to the “rights of parents to determine how their children will be raised and educated.”

Likewise, in the new model policy, students who are 18 years or older, or emancipated, have the power to choose their own names, pronouns and gender identities at school. Parental involvement is not required.

Your child has the right to identify however he/she pleases. However, it is not other children’s job to constantly having to validate or affirm this identity because in so doing, other children are being asked to deny their right to their beliefs and their own conception of what reality is, to which they are entitled to.

According to the new model introduced by the Youngkin administration,
“The First Amendment forbids government actors to require individuals to adhere to or adopt any particular ideological beliefs,” the new guidance reads. “Practices such as compelling others to use preferred pronouns is premised on the ideological belief that gender is a matter of personal choice or subjective experience, not sex. Many Virginians reject this belief.” Furthermore, the policy continues, “the First Amendment guarantees religious freedom and prohibits compelling others to affirm ideas that may be contrary to their personal religious beliefs.” 

So if my kid identifies as female, which matches her biological sex, but your kid doesn't want to affirm that identity because he believes males are superior and should be the only sex, he shouldn't have to affirm my daughter's identity?

Have you asked your daughter how she feels about Dylan Mulvaney who pretends to menstruate and mocks anything female, from periods and tampons, to makeup and clothing, and to anything related to girls and women? How does she feel that to Dylan, who was a man up to a year ago, the constant exaggeration and mockery of females has no boundaries?

How about asking your daughter how she feels about Lia Thomas winning swim competitions in the women’s category being that as of a year ago, prior to deciding to “switch genders” Lia had been placing 554th in the men’s category? Or how does she feel about Riley Gaines recently being physically attacked for bringing attention to the unfairness of girls loosing to biological males in the women’s category in sports?

How can you convince her not to equate that to women having to submit to men? Most importantly, how could you deny to your daughter that by women agreeing to men usurping what belongs to them is not the same as accepting that, as you put it, “males are superior and should be the only sex”, and therefore, “shouldn't have to affirm (your) daughter's identity?

I’ve seen Dylan’s post. She isn’t mocking anything, she making light of everything new that she’s needed to learn to transition.

Sporting leagues make decisions on trans participation. Bring your issues to them, not an FCPS school forum.

About Dylan Mulvaney, I beg to differ.

As for competitive sports, the participation of transgender students is not an issue exclusive to college athletes; it’s also pertinent to students in FCPS.

One would hope that during FLE and Sex Ed lessons at FCPS, students were given an unbiased platform where they can feel free to debate why girls don’t feel comfortable undressing in front of others whose genitalia are male, or why they think that it’s unfair to have biological male athletes compete against girls because, as you might know, high schools in FCPS have competitive sports, and some female student athletes are counting on college admission under that category.

Of course, that appears to be wishful thinking since students at FCPS are not necessarily being guided on how to think independently, or how to develop critical thinking skills, but rather they are being indoctrinated to the extent that they are not even allowed to make an analogy of their situation with that of athletes in colleges around the country. That is precisely why the transgender issue in FCPS is presented as one sided.

"the participation of transgender students is not an issue exclusive to college athletes" -- false

https://www.insider.com/lia-thomas-teammates-oppose-trans-swimmer-on-womens-team-2022-3https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12165041/Paula-Scanlan-Lia-Thomas-former-teammate-slams-University-Pennsylvania.html

Repost the links:

https://www.insider.com/lia-thomas-teammates-oppose-trans-swimmer-on-womens-team-2022-3


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12165041/Paula-Scanlan-Lia-Thomas-former-teammate-slams-University-Pennsylvania.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New thought that I haven't seen yet in this thread:

I work in a school and have for almost 3 decades. It has been my experience that many trans kids I've known have the support of their families. In those cases, these model policies matter little.

Rather it's the cases where the student does NOT have the support of their family. Consider this: trans acceptance is a highly politicized issue right now (whether that it par for the course or abjectly ridiculous is not the point of this post). Through that lens, knowing how cruel kids can be and how much negative community chatter is out there, what kid on earth would think that SCHOOL is the best place to come out? And yet, with an unaccepting family, that's exactly where they'll do it. For kids with unaccepting families, it's not a secret that their family is not accepting, and there can be dire consequences for those kids--abuse, becoming unhoused, suicide. That's the reason for the pushback.

Part of the human development experience is to find our identity. Identity is comprised of a lot of things. Gender & sexuality have always been on a continuum--not binary nor static. For those supporting these policies, the claim is that the school system is "indoctrinating" kids, keeping families purposely out of the loop. What if instead it's supporting a student finding their identity, living their truth? Simply seeing a person for who they are: a human being, whatever identity that takes?

The question I have for the anti-trans crowd: what about a trans person is so scary? How does Human 475485 being trans affect your life in any way?

I'm not anti trans, I am just skeptical because it's getting a lot of attention lately. First, I don't want a boy using the same bathroom or changing facilities as my daughter. Next I don't want a boy in girls sports, beating all the girls. Whatever they want to do on their own time is not my problem, when it starts affecting my kid negatively that is when it becomes my problem.

If your daughter is so uncomfortable, using a shared restroom or locker room, one of your request that she had back to a private one?

Huh?? So all the girls should request private stalls to avoid seeing some kid with a penis? Because the penis kid should be the one that matters the most and not all of the girls. I'm pretty sure 99% of parents do not want their girls to see a penis at school. Girls should not have to be forced to see penises. It's just that simple.

Does your kid pee with the door to the stall open?

I have been in many a bathroom in my life and never have I seen another woman’s vulva.

If you have kids in the bathroom keeping the stall doors open, your superintendent should be made aware.