Great article: "Democrats are in a Bubble on Immigration"

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think you're in a bubble of xenophobia. Immigrants are a net positive to the country; asylum is a fundamental human right; and democrats are demonstrably not against border controls.

We want more LEGAL immigrants. But nice try, PP.

Bans from Muslim countries and how many kids in concentration camps, kids whose parents were LEGALLY seeking refugee status suggests this is not actually the case.

The remains of the concentration camps are in Europe, my friend. Go see them.

so many people who LOVE Godwin's Law!

You all should form an online forum. How many posts does it take BEFORE someone resurrects Godwin's Law?

Mike Godwin weighed in on this. He says it's appropriate to call these concentration camps.

Good for him
I disagree.

DP

How can you call them concentration camps when the people voluntarily walked into them?

And, really, the comparison is offensive.

+ a million
Everyone there is there voluntarily. Except, perhaps, the children who were dragged there by adults, who are free to leave at any time.

[Anonymous]

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Then we need to pass mandatory E-verify opposed by TRUMP and GOP because they love the businessmen to hire illegals. Who else will pay for their election expenses? If you stop the job spigot then we can manage the refugee issue.

I am trying to educate my myself about E-verify. The Wikipedia article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Verify

seems dated, but says that 16 mainly Republican states require some sort of E-verify, while three mainly Democratic state (California, Rhode Island, Illinois) *prohibit* the use of E-verify. Of course, there would be advantages to Federal E-verify but employment law has traditionally been a State issue.

Where have you seen that Trump and the GOP oppose Federal E-verify?

Of course, many jobs for illegal immigrants will continue even with E-verify. I know of house painters where the boss is a US citizen, but who hires illegal immigrants off the streets (at sub minimum wage) when he needs extra work for the day. There is no paperwork involved.

Absolutely. I'd wager that MOST jobs hiring illegal immigrants do so under the table, using cash only, no paperwork needed. E-verify should be required, but it still won't stem the tide of illegal immigrants who know they can always find work in the U.S.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're in a bubble of xenophobia. Immigrants are a net positive to the country; asylum is a fundamental human right; and democrats are demonstrably not against border controls.

We want more LEGAL immigrants. But nice try, PP.

Bans from Muslim countries and how many kids in concentration camps, kids whose parents were LEGALLY seeking refugee status suggests this is not actually the case.

The remains of the concentration camps are in Europe, my friend. Go see them.

so many people who LOVE Godwin's Law!

You all should form an online forum. How many posts does it take BEFORE someone resurrects Godwin's Law?

Mike Godwin weighed in on this. He says it's appropriate to call these concentration camps.

Good for him
I disagree.

DP

How can you call them concentration camps when the people voluntarily walked into them?

And, really, the comparison is offensive.

because the children can't get out dumbass.

You mean because their parents and/or other adult brought them here, and so now they're "our" responsibility? And you're actually blaming the US for that?? All the more reason why these people should be required to apply from their home countries and not be allowed to drag their children on an arduous journey. Dumbass.
-DP

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

How can you call them concentration camps when the people voluntarily walked into them?

And, really, the comparison is offensive.


because the children can't get out dumbass.

Many are unaccompanied minors who did walk in by themselves.
Some were brought in by child traffickers.
Some were brought by their parents.

They all came (or were brought) based on the fact that if a child gets across the border, they will not be sent back. Many were tickets to America.

Where do you want them to go? With child traffickers?

Deceptive rhetorical tactic. There are obviously many other solutions between "child trafficker" and "locked up in conditions that would be unconstitutional for death row inmates."

SUCH AS?? And talk about "deceptive rhetorical tactics" - "locked up in conditions unconstitutional for death row inmates"?? Do you even hear your own insanity?
-DP

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Those of you for whom immigration is your #1 issue -- what exactly is it that bothers you so much?

I am SO much more bothered by the idea that our country is caging children. And I dearly hope there are more voters like me than there are children of immigrants (all of you) rushing to slam shut the door to freedom and opportunity.

If we had proper border controls, we wouldn't be in charge of those children. We wouldn't have unaccompanied minors entering our country when we weren't prepared to take over care for them. We wouldn't have concerns about children being trafficked and needing to separate them from the adults they are with. We would be able to turn away people with criminal records before they entered our country, so we wouldn't need to separate them from their children in order to deal with how we're required to handle adults and children differently.

I agree that "kids in cages" is terrible. The way to handle it is to control our borders so we're not forced into situations we're not prepared for. Other countries do not essentially set up refugee camps within their borders for people attempting to enter illegally. Border controls happen at the border. People wait to enter.

Unfortunately, our politicians have repeatedly sabotaged our border controls and control of our interior, and establishing control is going to be challenging and painful. If we want a robust safety net, including some form of single payer health care, and I think we do, we cannot have open borders. If we're willing to forgo a robust safety net, then open borders might work.

If all we do is cry about "kids in cages" and not how we got here and what all of the causes are, we can guarantee ourselves this same conversation until the US is in a similar situation as our southern neighbors (difficulty handling influx of needy people, lower standards of living, more crime and dissatisfaction with possibilities, more desire for economic migration by citizens), and Canada starts having this conversation and we wail and moan about those meanies maintaining their border.

Not one word about mandatory e-verify from you or the conman or the GOP. Why not? Are you worried employers like trump may never be able to hire illegals with mandatory e-verify?

Since you have trouble reading, I'll pull it out for you:
"Unfortunately, our politicians have repeatedly sabotaged our border controls and control of our interior"

All of our politicians have failed on this. If you think it's just the Dems or just the GOP, you are a useful idiot. Both parties have had multiple opportunities to prevent where we are now, and they have both failed terribly, and they're being very successful at winding you up and pointing you in the direction they want.

Who is in power now ? Who had full control of government for 2 years? Why wasn’t anything done about e-verify?

Keep looking at problems as snapshots in time, and not a complex series of actions (and lack thereof) and good luck solving any of them.

I agree the GOP is failing now. And the Dems failed earlier. And if everyone keeps looking only when they feel "they other" should be fixing it, nothing will be solved.

This isn't a GOP problem or a Dem problem. This is a problem for our country. They have both failed to solve it, or even put good effort into fixing it. But sure go ahead. It's the GOPs fault. And we'll be back here in another 10 years where you claim the exact same thing, blissfully ignoring the periods of time when your party, or both parties together, could have done something.

You're a useful idiot.

You are the gop and conman voter, not me. And they are the ones railing immigration all the time. The country has a major opioid crisis, a stupid tariff war hurting our agriculture, historic inequality due to tax cut after tax cuts for the rich , and yet they are ruling up immigration even though it is at a 10 year low. The fraud party rules up immigration because they have no policy for the middle class and poor. They only want to take away their benefits. But demagogue immigration boogeyman to continue to divide Americans and win. The slavey era EC because no matter how much they cheat and suppress votes a majority of Americans aren’t with the GOP.

You can continue to repeat your idiotic word salads, regurgitating the same stupid expressions, but no one is taking you seriously. You truly are the useful idiot you continue to call everyone else.

[Anonymous]

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I don't know who Tim Pool is, but I agree with him completely.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think you're in a bubble of xenophobia. Immigrants are a net positive to the country; asylum is a fundamental human right; and democrats are demonstrably not against border controls.

Read the OpEd by David Brooks.

Half of America does not vote.

For every David Brooks lost there are 5 more uninspired non-voters to be gained in his place. Instead of meeting their tangible daily needs, we are catering a handful of Brooks. Bye.

David Brooks, longtime conservative who likes to play "Persuade me to vote for a Democrat, because you know you want me" when the only Democrat he'd support is one who is indistinguishable from a 1970s Republican?

His poor choices are his alone.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think you're in a bubble of xenophobia. Immigrants are a net positive to the country; asylum is a fundamental human right; and democrats are demonstrably not against border controls.

We want more LEGAL immigrants. But nice try, PP.

Asylum seekers aren’t illegal. It’s a different process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My German friends are terrified by the massive invasion of their nation. They see their culture dying. They no longer feel safe.

Exactly this. I have friends all over Europe and NONE of them are happy about the massive numbers of refugees who arrived a few years ago. There is no assimilation.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So you are saying, if we use E-verify, our problems would just go away as that is the issue? Bullish-t.

Exactly. I support using E-verify, but in no way will that deter people from coming here illegally. They can ALWAYS get work and they know this.

That’s a cop out. Let’s put businessmen like Conman Trump in jail for hiring illegals and then see how fast the problem declines. You have zero credibility if you don’t even want to try. The republicans are for open borders and for Russia as friends and fellow Democrat Americans as enemies. What a shame and fall for the GOP.

What part of "I support using E-verify" do you not understand? "Don't even want to try"? I just said I SUPPORT IT, you moron. Plenty of us do, yet we're also pointing out that even if it was required, which it should be, it won't stop immigrants from coming here illegally. They know they will get jobs, no matter what.

Could you please stop spewing the same nonsense in post after post?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're in a bubble of xenophobia. Immigrants are a net positive to the country; asylum is a fundamental human right; and democrats are demonstrably not against border controls.

We want more LEGAL immigrants. But nice try, PP.

Bans from Muslim countries and how many kids in concentration camps, kids whose parents were LEGALLY seeking refugee status suggests this is not actually the case.

The remains of the concentration camps are in Europe, my friend. Go see them.

+100
I think it would be extremely instructive for liberals to take a trip to Auschwitz and learn about the atrocities that occurred at *actual* concentration camps. Or at the very least, a field trip to the Holocaust Museum would be eye-opening.

Oh no, we are NOT doing this bullshit again. Call them concentration camps or not, but ALL observers in good faith of Republican rhetoric and actions towards immigrants since Trump see the absolutely clear parallels between the xenophobic ideas and policies that lead to the Holocaust and the language and rhetoric and actions towards immigrants.

The fact is, the Democratic party has never been pro illegal immigration -- Obama deported by the planeload. What we want is HUMANE treatment of people at the border, not open borders.

It makes me tear my hair out that the Bannon/Miller ploy to stoke xenophobia and use immigrant children as a way to garner votes is working. Yet, it is. We (Democrats) have no choice but to stand up for humane treatment of immigrants, yet immigration status has been so effectively weaponized by the Republican establishment that it may be a losing proposition.

All I have to say is SHAME, SHAME ON YOU. If you're Christian, this is not what Christ wanted you to do.

Please do explain to us exactly what you would have the U.S. do - at our expense, of course - to shelter and feed the thousands of immigrants waiting on asylum processing? I mean, that we aren't *already* doing, of course. And remember, the Trump administration bought beds for the children who are there and liberals decided they didn't like that. Surprise, surprise, I guess you would prefer the children continue sleeping on the floor. SMDH.

Still waiting on an answer to this... crickets. So surprising.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:To the op, yes. I am a democrat & have know that my party is more interested in helping folks without Napier’s then in helping my middle class family. We simply cannot solve everyone’s problems. We just can’t. It’s not ‘inhumane’ to say we can’t take you in. It’s inhumane to over extended & pretend like we can.
Yes- Dems are making immigration decisions in an echo chamber.

Why didn’t you listen to what Warren, Harris, Buttigieg, Ryan, Sanders, Booker etc had to say during the debates? They talked about struggling families, the high price of education and health care, depressed wages, investing in green technologies of the future that will create jobs. Did you just leave the room whenever those topics were addressed? And why do you think it’s a bad thing to bring together central American and Mexican leaders tonaddress the systemic problems that are causing people to flee those countries and north? It’s always better to do preventative medicine than to try to fix the illness.

What do you think we've been doing, for decades? Can you explain where the billions of dollars in aid we've sent to Central American countries has gone? How have their governments used it to help their people? We'll wait.

No answer to this one either. Chirp chirp...

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:“NOBODY WANTS OPEN BORDERS. You're pushing a GOP strawman. Shame.”

Maybe not literally open but near about.

Castro is getting all kinds of applause for pushing this idea of turning coming here without permission and just deciding you will stay into a minor offense - and most of the stage agreed with him Thursday.

Many also said let’s give people here illegally free health insurance.

And many Dems are opposing the reasonable idea of not qualifying for asylum in most cases if you have passed up multiple countries to get here rather than getting away from the country where someone is persecuting you and into a different one.

Another idea that got a lot of traction was not deporting people so long as they illegally show up here and then keep their nose clean.

So- unless you decide to commit a major crime like rape or murder sure sounds a lot like anyone around the world can just up and decide they plan to live in the US with virtually no disincentive to doing so.

EXACTLY. Sounds a lot like... open borders, doesn't it?

Sure, if you’re functionally illiterate.

Or if you're a hypocritical Democrat talking out of both sides of your mouth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:To the op, yes. I am a democrat & have know that my party is more interested in helping folks without Napier’s then in helping my middle class family. We simply cannot solve everyone’s problems. We just can’t. It’s not ‘inhumane’ to say we can’t take you in. It’s inhumane to over extended & pretend like we can.
Yes- Dems are making immigration decisions in an echo chamber.

Why didn’t you listen to what Warren, Harris, Buttigieg, Ryan, Sanders, Booker etc had to say during the debates? They talked about struggling families, the high price of education and health care, depressed wages, investing in green technologies of the future that will create jobs. Did you just leave the room whenever those topics were addressed? And why do you think it’s a bad thing to bring together central American and Mexican leaders tonaddress the systemic problems that are causing people to flee those countries and north? It’s always better to do preventative medicine than to try to fix the illness.

What do you think we've been doing, for decades? Can you explain where the billions of dollars in aid we've sent to Central American countries has gone? How have their governments used it to help their people? We'll wait.

No answer to this one either. Chirp chirp...

Uh, someone did respond to that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So you are saying, if we use E-verify, our problems would just go away as that is the issue? Bullish-t.

Undocumented immigrants aren’t going to come if they have no way to earn money to survive. If employers actually used E-Verify (because there was a risk of real penalties if they didn’t), it would be much harder for undocumented immigrants to find employment, and the inability to earn money both for themselves and to send back home would significantly discourage migration.

Are you really this naïve? Of course they're going to come, regardless of E-verify. I agree that employers need to use it, but there are plenty of cash-only employees who will hire anybody and illegal immigrants know this. Everyone (except you, apparently?) knows this.

You can’t do cash only for steady long term jobs. Period. Even then the employers are doing an illegal act by doing so. Raid them a few times and they will change. It is much better and smarter to monitor few thousand employers than to monitor millions of illegals. And it is easier to punish the employers for hiring illegals because they are Americans and they better care about america as much as other Americans. Or else they could go to jail. It’s the only way TRumps could be made to follow e-verify.

Of course you can. And these immigrants know it. I'm not sure how you can't comprehend this.