One person wants a prenup and the other does not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But honestly the biggest thing is that the terms of the prenup suggest he doesn't trust her... At all. Why would he marry her if that is the case? This relationship sounds like a massive trainwreck.

Exactly. To me the red flag is not that he wants a prenup, but the exact, very harsh, terms and the fact that he doesn't seem to want her to get her own lawyer and/or to have equal bargaining power. To me, a prenup is simply another contract and while it may be an OK business practice to browbeat a weaker party into a disadvantageous business contract (not saying it's OK, but it is routine), to do so with someone you supposedly love is another thing altogether.

And no, I am not some sort of 'men should support women blah blah' type. I am a DW who makes more than my DH due to our respective career choices (and knew that was always going to be the case before we got married). I am all for women being economically independent and having their own money/career. To me, the OP's issue is about trust and respect, something her future spouse shows a significant lack of.

Trust and respect is something that is earned and those who think that it is implicit when one gets married are deluding themselves. The number of marriages that fall apart is evidence of trust and respect being transient in many cases.

No one in a marriage has an automatic right to the other partner's assets and income. The only exception is a SAHM where BOTH parties agree that it is in the interests of the children that the mother should stay at home for a period. If one party in a marriage makes substantially more than the other person, the one who makes the greater amount has a correspondingly greater say in how that money should be spent or divided. It does not matter if it is the wife who makes more or the husband who does so.

The presumption that everything needs to be divided equally is absurd if one person makes a lot more than the other.

Marriages are based on a presumption that it will likely work out but prudence dictates that measures should be taken to safeguard both parties in a manner that is commensurate with what each brings to the marriage.

The craven avarice of women arguing for a disproportionate share of the marital assets is the strongest argument for why pre-nups are vital in most marriages.

Well, there's your problem right there. Trust and respect should be earned BEFORE you get married. You're the idiot marrying people you don't trust or respect, so it makes sense you're all about the prenup.

What you describe is dating, not marriage. That's totally fine. That works for a lot of people. But it's not marriage. It's formalized dating.

You are a total moron. All you need to look is to look at this relationship forum to witness the number of marriages that have fallen apart or are in trouble. And if you think this forum is not representative of what is happening in society as a whole then look at the statistics for the number of marriages that end in divorce.

Being delusional is one thing ...... to rationalize those delusions is asinine.

You're the moron proposing that you marry someone you don't yet trust and respect. Which I'm guessing some of the other failed marriages did too. You don't define success through looking at failure, and you're the last person I would ever take relationship advice from.

You are not just a moron but you lack comprehension of the English language. Most people who get married trust and respect each other but that does not last in many cases.

[Anonymous]

OP, you have no assets, no money, no friends, no family. You say you "couldn't even run a business" and that you "can't walk away from love".

You are a doormat. You're fiancé knows it. That's likely why he picked you in the first place. I second everyone's advice here that you should run in the other direction.

However, you won't. You'll marry this guy, sign his prenup, raise his children, and spend your golden years alone in a studio apartment drinking yourself to death after he leaves you with nothing. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with the "red flag" issue. Most men who have been divorced once have had that conversation... Not the prenup one, but the one where their fiancé says, "I don't understand why women take everything when things don't work out. We should just go our separate ways, keeping what was ours before the marriage."

Yeah. Sounds sincere. But through the divorce, the women feel entitled and then want half of everything. Half of marital AND half of what was never theirs to begin with (but they'll argue that all your stuff prior to marriage became 1/2 theirs after marriage).

A woman who knows you're marrying a second time would accept a prenup. If she doesn't or makes you feel guilty about it, she's hoping to fool you like the first woman who promised to "not be like all the other women."

OP's guy wants to protect future income, not current assets. He doesn't have any assets right now. These businesses don't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But honestly the biggest thing is that the terms of the prenup suggest he doesn't trust her... At all. Why would he marry her if that is the case? This relationship sounds like a massive trainwreck.

Exactly. To me the red flag is not that he wants a prenup, but the exact, very harsh, terms and the fact that he doesn't seem to want her to get her own lawyer and/or to have equal bargaining power. To me, a prenup is simply another contract and while it may be an OK business practice to browbeat a weaker party into a disadvantageous business contract (not saying it's OK, but it is routine), to do so with someone you supposedly love is another thing altogether.

And no, I am not some sort of 'men should support women blah blah' type. I am a DW who makes more than my DH due to our respective career choices (and knew that was always going to be the case before we got married). I am all for women being economically independent and having their own money/career. To me, the OP's issue is about trust and respect, something her future spouse shows a significant lack of.

Trust and respect is something that is earned and those who think that it is implicit when one gets married are deluding themselves. The number of marriages that fall apart is evidence of trust and respect being transient in many cases.

No one in a marriage has an automatic right to the other partner's assets and income. The only exception is a SAHM where BOTH parties agree that it is in the interests of the children that the mother should stay at home for a period. If one party in a marriage makes substantially more than the other person, the one who makes the greater amount has a correspondingly greater say in how that money should be spent or divided. It does not matter if it is the wife who makes more or the husband who does so.

The presumption that everything needs to be divided equally is absurd if one person makes a lot more than the other.

Marriages are based on a presumption that it will likely work out but prudence dictates that measures should be taken to safeguard both parties in a manner that is commensurate with what each brings to the marriage.

The craven avarice of women arguing for a disproportionate share of the marital assets is the strongest argument for why pre-nups are vital in most marriages.

If you believe that, then try racking up debt that you don't pay, and see creditors come after your spouse's income. Why don't you tell THEM that they don't have an automatic right to your spouse's income just because you're married. And you can't protect against that with a prenup. You're trying to pin up decision-making rights in a marriage to earning power, and it simply doesn't work like that in a marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But honestly the biggest thing is that the terms of the prenup suggest he doesn't trust her... At all. Why would he marry her if that is the case? This relationship sounds like a massive trainwreck.

Exactly. To me the red flag is not that he wants a prenup, but the exact, very harsh, terms and the fact that he doesn't seem to want her to get her own lawyer and/or to have equal bargaining power. To me, a prenup is simply another contract and while it may be an OK business practice to browbeat a weaker party into a disadvantageous business contract (not saying it's OK, but it is routine), to do so with someone you supposedly love is another thing altogether.

And no, I am not some sort of 'men should support women blah blah' type. I am a DW who makes more than my DH due to our respective career choices (and knew that was always going to be the case before we got married). I am all for women being economically independent and having their own money/career. To me, the OP's issue is about trust and respect, something her future spouse shows a significant lack of.

Trust and respect is something that is earned and those who think that it is implicit when one gets married are deluding themselves. The number of marriages that fall apart is evidence of trust and respect being transient in many cases.


No one in a marriage has an automatic right to the other partner's assets and income. The only exception is a SAHM where BOTH parties agree that it is in the interests of the children that the mother should stay at home for a period. If one party in a marriage makes substantially more than the other person, the one who makes the greater amount has a correspondingly greater say in how that money should be spent or divided. It does not matter if it is the wife who makes more or the husband who does so.

The presumption that everything needs to be divided equally is absurd if one person makes a lot more than the other.

Marriages are based on a presumption that it will likely work out but prudence dictates that measures should be taken to safeguard both parties in a manner that is commensurate with what each brings to the marriage.

The craven avarice of women arguing for a disproportionate share of the marital assets is the strongest argument for why pre-nups are vital in most marriages.

Well, there's your problem right there. Trust and respect should be earned BEFORE you get married. You're the idiot marrying people you don't trust or respect, so it makes sense you're all about the prenup.

What you describe is dating, not marriage. That's totally fine. That works for a lot of people. But it's not marriage. It's formalized dating.

You are a total moron. All you need to look is to look at this relationship forum to witness the number of marriages that have fallen apart or are in trouble. And if you think this forum is not representative of what is happening in society as a whole then look at the statistics for the number of marriages that end in divorce.

Being delusional is one thing ...... to rationalize those delusions is asinine.

You're the moron proposing that you marry someone you don't yet trust and respect. Which I'm guessing some of the other failed marriages did too. You don't define success through looking at failure, and you're the last person I would ever take relationship advice from.

You are not just a moron but you lack comprehension of the English language. Most people who get married trust and respect each other but that does not last in many cases.

Backtracking isn't your strong suit. Neither is your understanding of cause and effect. Seriously, you're just stupid. I'm sorry to be the only one who will tell you that.

[Anonymous]

^^I don't see any backtracking.

[Anonymous]

Can someone who is advising OP not to go ahead based on the pre-nup that her SO wants her to sign offer some thing concrete as to what the minimum should be that OP ought to seek in a pre-nup?

Not looking for legal advice but just an approximate percentage that OP should want since the 20% she was offered is generally deemed unreasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone who is advising OP not to go ahead based on the pre-nup that her SO wants her to sign offer some thing concrete as to what the minimum should be that OP ought to seek in a pre-nup?

Not looking for legal advice but just an approximate percentage that OP should want since the 20% she was offered is generally deemed unreasonable.

50%

Obviously.

[Anonymous]

Can someone who is advising OP not to go ahead based on the pre-nup that her SO wants her to sign offer some thing concrete as to what the minimum should be that OP ought to seek in a pre-nup?

Not looking for legal advice but just an approximate percentage that OP should want since the 20% she was offered is generally deemed unreasonable.

I think a prenup is better when it excludes income, rather than precludes it. In this case, since he's already bought the house, the prenup can exclude any monies paid so far into the house from the time of purchase to the date of marriage (down payment, mortgage payments and capital improvements). the prenup can exclude any other assets he or she brings to the marriage (cars, jewelry, etc).

but honestly, I think the OP should walk away, work on building up her own career and support network.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No businesses owned. He makes more money than I. Any businesses that he creates in the marriage, he wants. No alimony. If I contribute, say 20 percent towards house bills, then in a divorce, that's what I get towards the house.

Read this post, OP. Over and over and over. Do you really want to marry this person who does not trust you and who expects that at some point, your marriage will fail?

Do you think you'll have children with this person?

No alimony? You only get what you put into the house?

Come on, OP, let go of this person! Whew, this really stinks!

If he does not trust you enough to marry you without a prenup, then either you are not trustworthy, or he's an asshat, and your marriage is going to fail. Why get married at all?

One matrimonial lawyer I know told me that every marriage she knows of that started with a prenup failed. Every. Single. One.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what is his parents' marriage like. I know a few people who insisted on a prenup and did not own their own business. All came from unhappy homes whether it was cheating, volitile divorce, or just a lot of unhappiness. A couple ended up doing away with the prenup when their significant other said no marriage with one, 2 are in bad marriages but there were problems before the marriage (with respect, money, and cheating) and one is very happily
Married with a pre nup.

It's hard to say what you should do without knowing more details. Does he not trust you with money? Does he want to keep all things separate? Is he controlling in other ways?

OP here. His parents were happy, no prenup. My parents ended in divorce. I am not a spender, at all! I'm beyond cheap. He wants separate accounts but agreed upon a separate account and then one joint account. It just doesn't feel like a marriage out of love, to me. This is about business and numbers it seems like.

How old are you, OP? How much older is he?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No businesses owned. He makes more money than I. Any businesses that he creates in the marriage, he wants. No alimony. If I contribute, say 20 percent towards house bills, then in a divorce, that's what I get towards the house.

Read this post, OP. Over and over and over. Do you really want to marry this person who does not trust you and who expects that at some point, your marriage will fail?

Do you think you'll have children with this person?

No alimony? You only get what you put into the house?

Come on, OP, let go of this person! Whew, this really stinks!

If he does not trust you enough to marry you without a prenup, then either you are not trustworthy, or he's an asshat, and your marriage is going to fail. Why get married at all?

One matrimonial lawyer I know told me that every marriage she knows of that started with a prenup failed. Every. Single. One.

Been married over 20+ years. We had a prenup and our marriage is still going strong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what is his parents' marriage like. I know a few people who insisted on a prenup and did not own their own business. All came from unhappy homes whether it was cheating, volitile divorce, or just a lot of unhappiness. A couple ended up doing away with the prenup when their significant other said no marriage with one, 2 are in bad marriages but there were problems before the marriage (with respect, money, and cheating) and one is very happily
Married with a pre nup.

It's hard to say what you should do without knowing more details. Does he not trust you with money? Does he want to keep all things separate? Is he controlling in other ways?

OP here. His parents were happy, no prenup. My parents ended in divorce. I am not a spender, at all! I'm beyond cheap. He wants separate accounts but agreed upon a separate account and then one joint account. It just doesn't feel like a marriage out of love, to me. This is about business and numbers it seems like.

Pp here. Honestly, I think this is going to be a battle your whole marriage. What if you lose your job? Will you have to pay him back for the time you aren't earning? What about if you stay at home for a bit? Would he support you going back to school to further your career? Etc. have you asked him why he thinks the way he does regarding finances? Finally, before you throw in the towel, I suggest pre marital counseling. I suspect you may be the couple who benefits from going through potential future scenarios and seeing if you are on the same page.

OP here. He said he will support me staying home but then the percentage I get from the house, would be reduced because I'm providing. He wants to do this because statics show that helps a healthy divorce and the biggest problem with marriage and divorce, is finances. We will be going to counseling, thanks for the advice

I can't believe this is not a troll post!!

If it's real, and you are actually considering marrying this controlling man, then shame on you! You're in "love" hahahahahahaha! Love is a bunch of chemicals going whacko. Use your BRAIN.

I SAH. If my DH ever considered "reducing" the percentage I get from the house, I would kick his a** from here to California! We don't have a prenup, our finances are not and never have been equal, and we're still married. Geeze, OP, your man's ideas about finances are truly laughable!

I doubt very much your beloved knows anything about marriage, about compromise, about trust, or even about love.

Run, honey, run, run, run. This can only end badly. Good luck with the counseling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone who is advising OP not to go ahead based on the pre-nup that her SO wants her to sign offer some thing concrete as to what the minimum should be that OP ought to seek in a pre-nup?

Not looking for legal advice but just an approximate percentage that OP should want since the 20% she was offered is generally deemed unreasonable.

This sounds like OP was writing in using the third person here....

[Anonymous]

Run, honey, run, run, run. This can only end badly. Good luck with the counseling.

It already sounds terrible! If he can suggest these terms to her face, it seems like they already have a lot of this dynamic in their relationship, and he is stringing her along with a ring at the end of a very very long fishing rod. I actually doubt that he would marry her. If he does, it is to have a housekeeper / nanny / cook to take care of him while he cheats on her left and right, and then eventually divorces her when he's tired of her to marry Senator so and so's daughter who's 20 yrs younger and loaded.

This prenup is simply an insurance policy for him that she sticks around and can't get at much when the time comes. He does not love you OP. He might love having a housekeeper / cook / nanny who works only for food and board and some affection when it is convenient for him, but that is not love....

Repeat. That is not love.

OP, you need individual therapy much more than couples therapy.

Listen to what this board is telling you.